HELP! I'm busting my butt and still gaining!
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Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »donjtomasco wrote: »Well based on that logic then keep eating candy and roll ups and cheeseburgers and chips as long as you are at a calorie deficit? I think your logic is a little flawed Jelly.
For weight loss you can absolutely eat candy, roll ups, cheeseburgers, and chips as long as you maintain a deficit. That is how energy works.
True, works for weight loss
A big fail if you eat too much of that stuff and want to live a healthy lifestyle. Say 2 people have 500 calories a day after they hit the macro and weight loss goals. Who is going to feel better, have better blood test numbers, more energy for activities, etc., the one who consumes the 500 calories worth of candy, chips, pop, etc or the one who eats some extra lean protein, complex carbs, etc.?
No one is telling her to eat "junk" food all day. She was told she had to cut out bread, that person was told that it's untrue and he started ranting about eating junk food all day. No one but no one has said it's a good idea. They have just said that deficit is the only thing that has an impact on weight loss, not the food. So theoretically you could eat donuts all day but no one has suggested that the OP do so.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »donjtomasco wrote: »Well based on that logic then keep eating candy and roll ups and cheeseburgers and chips as long as you are at a calorie deficit? I think your logic is a little flawed Jelly.
For weight loss you can absolutely eat candy, roll ups, cheeseburgers, and chips as long as you maintain a deficit. That is how energy works.
True, works for weight loss
A big fail if you eat too much of that stuff and want to live a healthy lifestyle. Say 2 people have 500 calories a day after they hit the macro and weight loss goals. Who is going to feel better, have better blood test numbers, more energy for activities, etc., the one who consumes the 500 calories worth of candy, chips, pop, etc or the one who eats some extra lean protein, complex carbs, etc.?
No one is telling her to eat "junk" food all day. She was told she had to cut out bread, that person was told that it's untrue and he started ranting about eating junk food all day. No one but no one has said it's a good idea. They have just said that deficit is the only thing that has an impact on weight loss, not the food. So theoretically you could eat donuts all day but no one has suggested that the OP do so.
I think his argument is that if two people have 500 cals left and one does donuts and one does "lean meats" then the person filling in 500 calories will feel "worse" because donuts…which is just ridiculous...0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »donjtomasco wrote: »Well based on that logic then keep eating candy and roll ups and cheeseburgers and chips as long as you are at a calorie deficit? I think your logic is a little flawed Jelly.
For weight loss you can absolutely eat candy, roll ups, cheeseburgers, and chips as long as you maintain a deficit. That is how energy works.
True, works for weight loss
A big fail if you eat too much of that stuff and want to live a healthy lifestyle. Say 2 people have 500 calories a day after they hit the macro and weight loss goals. Who is going to feel better, have better blood test numbers, more energy for activities, etc., the one who consumes the 500 calories worth of candy, chips, pop, etc or the one who eats some extra lean protein, complex carbs, etc.?
my blood work is perfect and when I was bulking I was getting 500 calories from ice cream, cookies, bagels, etc…
so here is your example…
next...
Get 20% or so of your calories every day like that for 5-10 years and come back with test results.
Do you think eating that stuff was the best way to fuel your workouts?
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everybody is going to take a guess but there is only 1 correct answer.
here are the 11 most common reasons and I assure you that the answer you seek is listed
http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/
Love, love, LOVE this!!0 -
I would suggest the op get advice from a nutritionist and I'm pretty sure they won't suggest ice cream cookies and bagels pre workout.0
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OP, first of all, wonderful attitude! I'm not sure how much time you've spent in the MFP forums, but these threads usually go off the rails pretty badly by now. It seems like you're in a good frame of mind to hear advice, which is very refreshing
I took a peek through your diary, and it's not bad. I'm going to ask about the "homemade" and "generic" entries you're using. Did you enter those recipes yourself? If not, I'll guarantee they're not accurate for what you actually ate. In addition to getting a food scale, the #1 thing you can do to improve your logging is to learn how to navigate the database:
1. Entries without an asterisk were entered by MFP; entries with an asterisk are user-entered. There's no real quality control for user-entered items, except checking to see how many people have confirmed it, so use those entries with caution.
2. "Generic" and "homemade" entries are almost always wrong. Unless you can confirm the calorie and macro counts against something else, like a package label, don't use those entries!
3. The best way to be accurate for any kind of packaged food is to use the bar code scanner or to confirm the brand name of the entry.
4. Users will often enter (USDA) after a food -- these are typically entered using information from the USDA database and are more likely to be accurate.
5. When in doubt, ALWAYS enter the individual components of the food! This is huge. Don't look for an entry that says "scrambled eggs" -- enter the raw eggs, and then the butter/oil/whatever as separate entries. This can take a little time at the beginning, but most people eat the same foods in the same combinations often, so you can start saving those as meals in your own diary.
Thank you so much! I had no idea about the asterisk. I will be sure to take more time with my logging.0 -
donjtomasco wrote: »Are you going to offer the OP up some real advice or strickly tell her that she can eat shi* food all day and "just lose weight" as long as she is at a deficit?
Yes, you and jelly are "RIGHT". Maybe this is how you guys lose weight, but I am offering up to OP that adding healthier foods and maintaining her deficit while exercising is maybe a little wiser advice then "just losing weight" no matter what she is eating.
WOW!!!!
Might want to get some help for that anger management issue.
Good for you OP for accepting that your logging needs work, that is the biggest hurdle! Use a food scale, log accurately, and you will get there.
Make food choices that allow you to never feel overly hungry, while eating what you like. Compromise and moderation is the name of the game here. Try to make sure you hit your protein macros to minimize muscle loss while you are losing, and integrate some strength training if possible for the same reason.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »donjtomasco wrote: »Well based on that logic then keep eating candy and roll ups and cheeseburgers and chips as long as you are at a calorie deficit? I think your logic is a little flawed Jelly.
For weight loss you can absolutely eat candy, roll ups, cheeseburgers, and chips as long as you maintain a deficit. That is how energy works.
True, works for weight loss
A big fail if you eat too much of that stuff and want to live a healthy lifestyle. Say 2 people have 500 calories a day after they hit the macro and weight loss goals. Who is going to feel better, have better blood test numbers, more energy for activities, etc., the one who consumes the 500 calories worth of candy, chips, pop, etc or the one who eats some extra lean protein, complex carbs, etc.?
my blood work is perfect and when I was bulking I was getting 500 calories from ice cream, cookies, bagels, etc…
so here is your example…
next...
Get 20% or so of your calories every day like that for 5-10 years and come back with test results.
Do you think eating that stuff was the best way to fuel your workouts?
been doing it for about five years now and blood work is nearly perfect…
and when I did that bulk all my lifts went up and measurements were up …
so not sure what you are talking about…
Also, the rest of my 2500 calories was chicken, rice, fish, vegetables, eggs, pasta, bagels, steak, whole wheat, egg whites, etc, etc…so are you saying that the 500 calories of ice cream negated the other 2500 calories?
again - context of overall diet is what matters...0 -
I would suggest the op get advice from a nutritionist and I'm pretty sure they won't suggest ice cream cookies and bagels pre workout.
Nor has anyone here told her to eat cookies and ice cream right before working out. That sounds nauseating.
OP- don't do this
There now, we're making progress here, folks.
FWIW though, I totally eat bagels before working out. You try running 16 miles on just egg whites and spinach! No Bueno, amigo, no bueno.0 -
I would suggest the op get advice from a nutritionist and I'm pretty sure they won't suggest ice cream cookies and bagels pre workout.
LOL why not? Ice cream has sugar which will give you an increased boost in energy, which is what you want pre work out, right?
and who suggested she do that pre work out…??
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I would suggest the op get advice from a nutritionist and I'm pretty sure they won't suggest ice cream cookies and bagels pre workout.
Nor has anyone here told her to eat cookies and ice cream right before working out. That sounds nauseating.
OP- don't do this
There now, we're making progress here, folks.
FWIW though, I totally eat bagels before working out. You try running 16 miles on just egg whites and spinach! No Bueno, amigo, no bueno.
for realz…why wouldn't you want carbs pre work out????0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »donjtomasco wrote: »Well based on that logic then keep eating candy and roll ups and cheeseburgers and chips as long as you are at a calorie deficit? I think your logic is a little flawed Jelly.
For weight loss you can absolutely eat candy, roll ups, cheeseburgers, and chips as long as you maintain a deficit. That is how energy works.
True, works for weight loss
A big fail if you eat too much of that stuff and want to live a healthy lifestyle. Say 2 people have 500 calories a day after they hit the macro and weight loss goals. Who is going to feel better, have better blood test numbers, more energy for activities, etc., the one who consumes the 500 calories worth of candy, chips, pop, etc or the one who eats some extra lean protein, complex carbs, etc.?
No one is telling her to eat "junk" food all day. She was told she had to cut out bread, that person was told that it's untrue and he started ranting about eating junk food all day. No one but no one has said it's a good idea. They have just said that deficit is the only thing that has an impact on weight loss, not the food. So theoretically you could eat donuts all day but no one has suggested that the OP do so.
I think his argument is that if two people have 500 cals left and one does donuts and one does "lean meats" then the person filling in 500 calories will feel "worse" because donuts…which is just ridiculous...
Seriously! If I have some extra calories left, I feel *way* better using it to have a treat...! Banning foods from my lips that I enjoy *foreverrr* because "Im on a diet" is the most depressing weight loss thought ever. The mental stress of never allowing myself to eating certain foods ever again to lose weight and keep it off ie...forever be *on* a diet instead of learning how to eat a balanced diet would not make me feel better at all.0 -
OP....scales are a must......number 1 priority is to weigh food and log EVERYTHING....even if it does embarrass you.....that aspect is one of the things that keep me on track and some others I know....so the open diary...and people that will keep you in line are very helpful too.......
But at the end of the day...unless you know what your putting in then you cannot get a handle on your issues.....
Start from the beginning again......buy some scale...and a note pad.....write everything down you eat.....have a little one in your pocket / handbag etc to log when out........log drinks.......tea / coffee / but definitely soda.........that can be a real eye opener to newbies....
Weigh Butter you put on bread too...that can be more than you think...also condiments...I can empty a full bottle of sauce on a plate of chips or with a steak......again a realy eye opener once you see whats in it......
Eat your normal food for a week or 3 and log it fully.....close your dairy for this time if its that bad in reality...but its that time and data collection that really does help you to understand what you actually eat in a day........
Then you can work out what can be done to fix it.....change one meal a day for a week or 3 again.....(I like a week or 3 a lot BTW)..........then do anther.......you will soon learn that eating 3 slices of toast for breakfast give you too much for not long filling....you might find muesli, porridge or cereals are better at filling you....and are the same or less in calories.....you will see that your Saturday night take away (this is my life story I am recanting....as I do not know your situation)is not worth starving yourself all day for so you change your mind set on meals.....taking you healthy without knowing it.....that's what's happened for me.....
Planning is also one of the best things to do.......if you know you want a weekend treat...or a bottle of wine / beer or 3.......then add it before hand.......and then try plan meals you usually eat around that....you will find again your then searching for filling foods rather than treaty types etc...
I also advise to take it slowly....its taken yrs (many yrs for me) to get in the state we find ourselves...so we are not going to fix it overnights......set short term goals that are achievable.....but also long term goal as well...something to aim for...but the short term ones also keep you motivated.....
Its hard work....you have won the first fight with your attitude and your realisation of lack of accuracy.....I am a data nerd...so I am very anal that all data should be as near perfect as it can be.....
for me.......after 2 months of very slow loss.....4lbs instead of the 14 lbs predict.....I was also like WTF......so I went a bit mental.......bought a fit bit...read every fitness / nutritional article / forum page possible,.........it can get in your head.....the thing for me that stops the complete mental breakdown over it all is accurate data.....not sure if I have mentioned that before....lol.....
I would recommend a activity tracker if you can afford one...I have a fitbit charge HR...and I love it....it tells me what I have done in a day...better than any treadmill...or MFP app.....there are many around that sync with MFP....and can really help with understanding the things you need to change....
Good luck with it...hope you can find your groove....
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donjtomasco wrote: »jelly wrote:
For weight loss you can absolutely eat candy, roll ups, cheeseburgers, and chips as long as you maintain a deficit. That is how energy works.
And there is the healthy weight loss advice of the day!!!!! Outstanding.
[/quote]
You still haven't explained why you think a calorie deficit isn't sufficient for weight loss.
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atypicalsmith wrote: »everybody is going to take a guess but there is only 1 correct answer.
here are the 11 most common reasons and I assure you that the answer you seek is listed
http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/
Love, love, LOVE this!!
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Jelly, I will answer your question if you can show me where I said "a calorie deficit isn't sufficient for weight loss". Good luck with that. Your preaching that sweets burgers chips and other junk food is " fine" as a diet is getting tiresome.0
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donjtomasco wrote: »Jelly, I will answer your question if you can show me where I said "a calorie deficit isn't sufficient for weight loss". Good luck with that. Your preaching that sweets burgers chips and other junk food is " fine" as a diet is getting tiresome.
Not *AS* a diet...but within one.
Really though, the thing is....if you dont want to eat burgers, chips or any other specific type of food ever again, no one is saying you should... Nor is anyone saying that anyone should only eat burgers, chips and junk *as* a diet.
If someone is trying to lose weight, that would never work anyway..they arent filling enough, and you'd need to eat more to feel satisfied which would negate any deficit, but if your diet is otherwise of nutritional value, including these things every so often does not turn your entire day to garbage.
This is a lifestyle change..insisting that one has to give up eating certain foods for the rest of their life, that people are to never eat another burger, or have another taste of ice cream, or eat a single chip again and be on a restrictive deit forever...thats just not reasonable or realistic *if that is something they enjoy and would like to continue eating* For you it might be totally reasonable, especially if those are foods youve never liked or eaten to begin with and will never miss having ever again.
Like for me, not eating chips for the rest of my life is no big deal, cause I dont like em. But you demanding that I can never eat a burger again because its garbage...yeah, thats not going to work. You have to do whats right for you...if you consider certain foods garbage then yeah, thats great that you choose to never eat it. For others...completely banning foods indefinitely is only going to set them up for failure because eventually they will cave and feel like a failure for eating food.
And its not fair to judge someone for looking at this as a lifestyle change they can live with, rather than as a diet they must be on for the rest of their lives. Not fair at all. While it works for you, that method of losing weight and maintaining will not work for everyone...and they need breathing room to be a human being that can satisfy a craving every once in awhile, whatever that craving may be for.
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donjtomasco wrote: »Jelly, I will answer your question if you can show me where I said "a calorie deficit isn't sufficient for weight loss". Good luck with that. Your preaching that sweets burgers chips and other junk food is " fine" as a diet is getting tiresome.
I'm not Jelly, but I can show you.donjtomasco wrote: »Jelly, I may be wrong, but I think if the wrong foods are eaten while even at a deficit a person can gain weight.
It was back on page 1. Why does it upset you so much that people are capable of eating all foods in moderation? If you choose not to for yourself, of course that's fine, but why the vehemence that everyone should do what you do?
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