(Why) are people really disappointed to hear they can eat anything they want and still lose weight?
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spoonyspork wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »I see this many times each day on the forums. Question: "What can I eat that will make me lose fat?" (Almost) collective answer: "You can eat anything you like as long as you are in a calorie deficit." Reaction is in 99.99% of cases, disbelief, mistrust, frustration, even anger. Why? I was over myself from joy when I realised that I could still eat candy at birthdays and that low fat diet foods weren't necessary to lose and maintain weight.
I know when I realized that I could lose weight just by simply watching my calorie intake I was kind of disgusted and angry with myself for wasting so many years doing overly complicated things when this is so ridiculously easy. I didn't disbelieve it because it was working for me but there was definitely a feeling like I had been stupid and scammed. Then I was happy. Super happy.
Some people want fast, magic weight loss. They don't want to hear that it should take months or years to lose weight. They want to lose 50 lbs in a month and be strutting around in a bikini. Their friend/co-worker/family member lost weight quicker than that cutting everything out of their diet or doing crazy stuff so they must have to do that too.
You are probably the first person I've heard claim that losing weight is so ridiculously easy. Unfortunately the majority of people struggle.
I find it seriously easy. Sometimes an annoyance yes... but easy! Stupid easy. Soon as I figured out CICO and how to fit ice cream in (almost) every single day it became as easy as the over-eating had been. Felt stupid and ashamed of myself, but I have no qualms about feeling stupid and ashamed. Figure if I'm not learning, I'm dead XD
It's easy for me to say as I've not always been overweight... but hubby also finds it easy... and spent his whole life overweight. He's a healthy BMI for the first time since early childhood. He drinks a halo halo every night while I eat my ice cream, after a nice big dinner of a crap-ton of veggies and lean meats cooked in a little fat. Easy-peasy.
I find it incredibly easy too. And I've had issues with my weight since I was about 12.
The thing I've learned, in the 40 years since then and with all my attempts to lose weight, is that my issues with my weight were like an onion. I had to peel all the layers back one by one and deal with them.
Yes, the bottom line was that I overate. But I separated myself from my behavior with complex head games.
Once I got down to the bottom line of accepting responsibility for my behavior after peeling all of the layers away, coming to MFP and getting a good tool to use to help form new habits making the whole process quite easy.
I don't find that smaller portions suck. Maybe I'm just weird. Maybe it's the head game I have, because I tell myself all the time that my former portions were WRONG.
I dunno, I think I'm in danger of rambling at this point.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Before mfp/internet, if you are as old as me and remember that, ci/co wasn't that easy. Figuring out the calories to what you were eating took a lot of time and effort when making/eating casseroles for the whole family....so it just seemed logical/practical that cutting out "bad" foods is what was necessary...which then setup the cravings and binging, etc....at least for me anyway. There weren't heart rate monitors back then, so it was easy to justify the 20 minute walk as enough calories to "earn" a box of macaroni and cheese.
And it really never clicked that you didn't really need to know the exact calorie counts? That simply eating a little less and moving a little more would work?
People are in denial about how much they eat or just don't know. It's not always simple to just eat less and trying to just move more often results in people also eating more.
Also, many people I know who struggle with their weight try to cut calories in ways that aren't particularly helpful. For example, skipping breakfast and lunch and then eating whatever for dinner. For some people that works great, but for others it ends up meaning they consume more calories, probably.
When I decided to lose weight the other time I did, I didn't think I ate all that much and I had absolutely no idea how many calories I ate, even though I knew calories mattered. I also assumed my maintenance was about 2000. I didn't end up figuring out my maintenance, but I did write down what I was eating, see the issue, and institute methods (serving size plus nutrition related things) to control my calories and make sure they were reduced.
That works, but it required that I be able to see that I'd been eating not only somewhat badly, but too much. I think that's something lots of people resist, and as such they also don't try to cut their calories in a logical way. Not everyone needs to, but one reason I like the MFP tool is that for those who actually are open to using it you will see where your eating choices are making things easier and harder.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Before mfp/internet, if you are as old as me and remember that, ci/co wasn't that easy. Figuring out the calories to what you were eating took a lot of time and effort when making/eating casseroles for the whole family....so it just seemed logical/practical that cutting out "bad" foods is what was necessary...which then setup the cravings and binging, etc....at least for me anyway. There weren't heart rate monitors back then, so it was easy to justify the 20 minute walk as enough calories to "earn" a box of macaroni and cheese.
And it really never clicked that you didn't really need to know the exact calorie counts? That simply eating a little less and moving a little more would work?
Now I feel incredibly stupid, but no, it didn't click. I had advertising telling me otherwise, and having the money to advertise must mean that enough people have used the product and therefore it must be legit. I tried Nutrisystem when I was like 20, and ate tiny pre-packaged meals and was starving, so eating less food didn't seem like the answer to long-term success anyway.
I guess my cynical nature comes in handy sometimes.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Before mfp/internet, if you are as old as me and remember that, ci/co wasn't that easy. Figuring out the calories to what you were eating took a lot of time and effort when making/eating casseroles for the whole family....so it just seemed logical/practical that cutting out "bad" foods is what was necessary...which then setup the cravings and binging, etc....at least for me anyway. There weren't heart rate monitors back then, so it was easy to justify the 20 minute walk as enough calories to "earn" a box of macaroni and cheese.
And it really never clicked that you didn't really need to know the exact calorie counts? That simply eating a little less and moving a little more would work?
People are in denial about how much they eat or just don't know. It's not always simple to just eat less and trying to just move more often results in people also eating more.
Also, many people I know who struggle with their weight try to cut calories in ways that aren't particularly helpful. For example, skipping breakfast and lunch and then eating whatever for dinner. For some people that works great, but for others it ends up meaning they consume more calories, probably.
When I decided to lose weight the other time I did, I didn't think I ate all that much and I had absolutely no idea how many calories I ate, even though I knew calories mattered. I also assumed my maintenance was about 2000. I didn't end up figuring out my maintenance, but I did write down what I was eating, see the issue, and institute methods (serving size plus nutrition related things) to control my calories and make sure they were reduced.
That works, but it required that I be able to see that I'd been eating not only somewhat badly, but too much. I think that's something lots of people resist, and as such they also don't try to cut their calories in a logical way. Not everyone needs to, but one reason I like the MFP tool is that for those who actually are open to using it you will see where your eating choices are making things easier and harder.
What do you mean by that last (now bolded) sentence?0 -
Lol yes indeed, a fallacious argument in that toasters don't toast toast, and toast doesn't toast toast, people with toasters toast toast.
Analogously, food doesn't make people fat, and people don't make people fat, people with food make people fat.
Food is the tool, but people are ultimately the cause (and the solution).0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Before mfp/internet, if you are as old as me and remember that, ci/co wasn't that easy. Figuring out the calories to what you were eating took a lot of time and effort when making/eating casseroles for the whole family....so it just seemed logical/practical that cutting out "bad" foods is what was necessary...which then setup the cravings and binging, etc....at least for me anyway. There weren't heart rate monitors back then, so it was easy to justify the 20 minute walk as enough calories to "earn" a box of macaroni and cheese.
And it really never clicked that you didn't really need to know the exact calorie counts? That simply eating a little less and moving a little more would work?
People are in denial about how much they eat or just don't know. It's not always simple to just eat less and trying to just move more often results in people also eating more.
Also, many people I know who struggle with their weight try to cut calories in ways that aren't particularly helpful. For example, skipping breakfast and lunch and then eating whatever for dinner. For some people that works great, but for others it ends up meaning they consume more calories, probably.
When I decided to lose weight the other time I did, I didn't think I ate all that much and I had absolutely no idea how many calories I ate, even though I knew calories mattered. I also assumed my maintenance was about 2000. I didn't end up figuring out my maintenance, but I did write down what I was eating, see the issue, and institute methods (serving size plus nutrition related things) to control my calories and make sure they were reduced.
That works, but it required that I be able to see that I'd been eating not only somewhat badly, but too much. I think that's something lots of people resist, and as such they also don't try to cut their calories in a logical way. Not everyone needs to, but one reason I like the MFP tool is that for those who actually are open to using it you will see where your eating choices are making things easier and harder.
What do you mean by that last (now bolded) sentence?
Eating some stuff is more filling/satisfying than other stuff, mostly. And many people eat lots of stuff that they probably aren't actually hungry for. Logging for a while or just honestly writing down what you eat brings those kinds of things into relief--IF someone is open to doing it honestly, of course.
In other discussions some people fret that if we tell people that they can eat whatever and lose weight that they will choose to eat just Twinkies or just McD's fries or some such, but IMO being analytical about it and forcing yourself to see what you are doing and see whether you struggle to stay within calories, are starving before your next meal, are out of calories by lunch, etc., ends up teaching people to make decisions that most of us might consider "better," without having to go to some extreme and cut out "bad" foods. Just being sensible and seeing what is actually going on should prevent anyone who is actually ready to do this from eating only Snickers (as I guess that's the current food favored around these parts for those who worry that left to our own devices with only calories to focus on we'd make ridiculous food choices).
I'm not saying anyone HAS to do this to lose, but for many people who haven't previous been that thoughtful about it it can be really helpful.0 -
It's not helpful a lot of the time. Eating whatever they want is what got them fat, something has to change.
This is the correct answer.
You can't tell a fat person, "Hey, the way to lose weight is to eat whatever you want."
Because they are going to think, "Really? Because I've been eating whatever I want my whole life and that's how I ended up this way."
When you tell someone that the way to lose weight is to "eat whatever you want", it makes it sound easy, and losing weight isn't easy. If it was, most of the country wouldn't be overweight or obese. What's easy is getting fat. That's what's easy.
Calorie deficit is what makes you lose weight. Yeah, you can eat whatever you want, as long as you maintain a calorie deficit. That is the hard part.
Now some of you have chastised me before saying, "Well, that should be obvious on a calorie-counting web site!" but as we have seen from the daily "Does X trick work for losing weight?" posts, lots of people don't know that it all boils down to CICO.
And then when they get the message that what it really boils down to is eating less, they understand that there is no quick fix other than enduring the hunger of a calorie deficit, which is often depressing and demoralizing.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »<snip> Second, magical thinking and specifically the idea that if I do this weird radical thing I'll stop WANTING anything else, stop caring about food. To a lesser degree something like this seems to happen to people for whom low carb works...
Appetite suppression is actually a fairly well documented effect of both low carbohydrate diets and very low calorie energy restricted diets. Whether or not it's sustainable for the individual is a personal thing but the appetite suppressing effects of the diets is science not magical thinking.
I just wanted to point that out considering I eat a fairly strict low carb diet for those effects (and personal health reasons) and not because I've deluded myself into thinking low carb is magic.
News Article | Science
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maillemaker wrote: »It's not helpful a lot of the time. Eating whatever they want is what got them fat, something has to change.
This is the correct answer.
You can't tell a fat person, "Hey, the way to lose weight is to eat whatever you want."
It's you can eat whatever you want that fits within your calories.
Works for me.When you tell someone that the way to lose weight is to "eat whatever you want", it makes it sound easy, and losing weight isn't easy. If it was, most of the country wouldn't be overweight or obese. What's easy is getting fat. That's what's easy.
Losing weight is pretty easy.
Caring about losing or not gaining weight vs. the short term payoffs of not worrying about it is what's hard.
IME, if you minimize the tradeoff by constructing a way of eating that both allows you to maintain a calorie deficit AND eat in a way that you enjoy and find satisfying (which for me means eating basically what I want, although not EVERYTHING I might like to have or not the portions I might eat if I didn't think about it), you help make it a lot easier.
I lost weight (easily) and kept it off about 5 years. Happily and without feeling any deprivation. Then stuff happened in my life and being me I responded in screwed up ways and regained plus. Losing it again seemed like a huge pain and at least being fat meant I could be self indulgent in one way, so I was. When I finally decided to get back to it I felt like it would be difficult and was surprised and felt this weird "oh, right, that's how it was!" when it proved to feel pretty easy and enjoyable and when I remembered that I had liked eating in the way I was as much or more than in the way I'd been while gaining (undisciplined, self-indulgent, but not actually as focused on making the most of my calories--more of the food I eat now is food I really like, and not simply there).
The harder part, although also the most rewarding, was getting active again, because that really did suck in some ways until I got at least a little more fit.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »<snip> Second, magical thinking and specifically the idea that if I do this weird radical thing I'll stop WANTING anything else, stop caring about food. To a lesser degree something like this seems to happen to people for whom low carb works...
Appetite suppression is actually a fairly well documented effect of both low carbohydrate diets and very low calorie energy restricted diets.
Yes, that's what I said. A lesser degree of this is what happens for those for whom low carb works.
(Is that really so unclear?)0 -
jojoeastcoast wrote: »Yes, people can eat anything they want and still lose weight. But not everyone who does eat anything they want will lose weight.
Caloric deficit [CI<CO] leads to weight-loss = science
Counting calories / restricting portions / eating high volume of low calorie choices / doing loads of cardio / eating pineapples (or pop tarts) only / not eating any pineapples (or pop tarts) ever = methods
The methods are what you do to make the science happen.
Do what works for you to create a caloric deficit.
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I definitely have binge eating disorder and moderation use to be a foreign concept for me. It was easier to eat a ton of boneless, skinless chicken and celery than to only have a little mac and cheese. So I can understand how people can't believe in CICO and eating everything you want. I'm slowly teaching myself moderation but it sucks.0
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maillemaker wrote: »It's not helpful a lot of the time. Eating whatever they want is what got them fat, something has to change.
This is the correct answer.
You can't tell a fat person, "Hey, the way to lose weight is to eat whatever you want."
Because they are going to think, "Really? Because I've been eating whatever I want my whole life and that's how I ended up this way."
When you tell someone that the way to lose weight is to "eat whatever you want", it makes it sound easy, and losing weight isn't easy. If it was, most of the country wouldn't be overweight or obese. What's easy is getting fat. That's what's easy.
Calorie deficit is what makes you lose weight. Yeah, you can eat whatever you want, as long as you maintain a calorie deficit. That is the hard part.
Now some of you have chastised me before saying, "Well, that should be obvious on a calorie-counting web site!" but as we have seen from the daily "Does X trick work for losing weight?" posts, lots of people don't know that it all boils down to CICO.
And then when they get the message that what it really boils down to is eating less, they understand that there is no quick fix other than enduring the hunger of a calorie deficit, which is often depressing and demoralizing.
Yep. Whether you say you can eat anything you want, everything you want, or whatever you want, it is ONLY true with the added caveat of "as long as you create a calorie deficit".
And that is not easy or simple for everyone.0 -
Too many people are still using the "diet" mentality. You go on a diet, deprive yourself of everything you like and that tastes good, lose the weight, then go back to eating "normally". They forget, this isn't a "diet" but a lifestyle change. It's a change in the way a person thinks about food. There should be no "good" or "bad" foods. Just healthy choices and other things that are reserved for occasionally eating but not forbidden. Just because one is trying to lose weight it doesn't mean you are doomed to eating nothing but rabbit food!
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I assume it is due to having to modify your portions and admit it. No easy fix. No magic pill.
I for one am loving it. I never had to "diet" before 40's hit. I had no idea of what to count, fat,sugar, calories, carbs. After logging my food and creeping on the boards I did focus on calories.
Back in the days with no internet, I prepared food by 3 groups, meat, veggies/fruit, starch. Raising a family we just did not have sodas, chips, fast food... those were treats.
When my activity slowed down b/c kids grew up, less for me to do and thyroid removed, the pounds came on.0 -
Any studies showing higher success at long-term maintenance for people whose weight problems were only moderate?herrspoons wrote: »
It's really not. I'm not sure someone need 10 years to say something worked. That's crazy talk.
I respect your opinion but, sorry, I agree with the Knighted One. Based on the statistics of regain after weight loss within a five year period, even using the CICO method, he's right on.
I don't even think he's that crazy
That's not a failing of CICO. That's a failing on the part of the person.
Yes.
Ok. And I think that if a person has had success and lost weight....only to regain it 7 years later...that person saying it works isn't wrong. They just lost control. That doesn't mean they can't reflect on what works, because they know what works because they've done it.
Just because they aren't practicing it, doesn't mean they aren't aware of why they regained the weight.
The issue definitely is control, yes.
And despite the fact that people know why they regain, most of them regain even still. Using any and all methods of weight loss. Including CICO. While eating controlled portions of pop tarts. For 4 years and 364 days, or something like that.
Right, but just because they have regained the weight, doesn't mean they don't understand what works.
The did. But I think the definition of "works" might be viewed as subjective in this case. It works if you work it so to speak. But somehow, most people don't feel like working it anymore at about the five year mark, or well before. Most people regain the weight. It's the awful truth.
But that's a personal choice. It doesn't mean that they don't know what works.
Yeah, any method chosen to lose weight is personal. And anyone is free to choose whatever method they want. But really. Statistically, those who choose CICO are not exempt from the dismal regain statistics within 5 years.
This totally. I find it mind boggling when MFP users jump down someone's throat if they talk about other methods of losing other then CICO. At the end of the day we all want to lose the weight and whatever "diet" we use is a personal choice. I certainly can't drink "diet" shakes forever but I also have a hard time counting calories forever so here I am trying for the umpteenth time.
Right. Go and look at those studies and the participants. We are not talking about people who are a bit overweight, we are generally talking about people who are obese or morbidly obese. Frankly you could give them any diet and they'd fail or have a massive recidivism rate, because, not to mince words, they lack the discipline to conform to any maintenance regime, which is why they're so huge in the first place.
For your average slightly porky dieter, CICO and a bit of education works very well.
But what if people are food?
Lol yes indeed, a fallacious argument in that toasters don't toast toast, and toast doesn't toast toast, people with toasters toast toast.
Analogously, food doesn't make people fat, and people don't make people fat, people with food make people fat.
Food is the tool, but people are ultimately the cause (and the solution).
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Depends on if you tend to be a moderator or an abstainer. Some people can eat just one twizler and move on, some have to eat the whole bag. Just like some people can have one glass of wine and some people are alcoholics. Yes, it is a lack of self control but berating yourself about it won't necessarily make it better. Be honest with yourself on which kind of person you are and proceed accordingly.0
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KombuchaCat wrote: »Depends on if you tend to be a moderator or an abstainer. Some people can eat just one twizler and move on, some have to eat the whole bag. Just like some people can have one glass of wine and some people are alcoholics. Yes, it is a lack of self control but berating yourself about it won't necessarily make it better. Be honest with yourself on which kind of person you are and proceed accordingly.
This. And are you saying I'm an alcoholic because I drink more than a glass of wine?
j/k 0 -
Losing weight is pretty easy.
Well, some of you say it is, so I guess for some of you it is.
All I can say is every time I have ever lost weight I have been hungry, except when I have taken appetite suppressants, as I am currently. Otherwise, it's never been easy for me. It's constant hunger and cold.
And given the fact that the majority of Americans are overweight or obese, and 3/4 of men in the US are overweight or obese, and that Americans spend over $60 billion annually on weight loss, and that most people who try to lose weight fail within 3 years, I'd wager that for most people, it's not easy to lose weight.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »<snip> Second, magical thinking and specifically the idea that if I do this weird radical thing I'll stop WANTING anything else, stop caring about food. To a lesser degree something like this seems to happen to people for whom low carb works...
Appetite suppression is actually a fairly well documented effect of both low carbohydrate diets and very low calorie energy restricted diets.
Yes, that's what I said. A lesser degree of this is what happens for those for whom low carb works.
(Is that really so unclear?)
I don't know but I read it as a lesser degree of magical thinking. And since MFP in general seems to take issue with low carb diets (not everyone but still a substantial portion of the posters here) I thought it couldn't hurt and might foster a little more tolerance.
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