Thoughts on my eating philosophy?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
But that assumes a zero sum game, which it is not.
Also, it ignores the more significant ways in which we take more than we need. Gluttony, properly understood, does not refer simply to food, and to call the overweight immoral while ignoring someone's McMansion or whatever seems really strange. I admit to overconsumption in many ways--heck, I own a car when I don't really need one, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. That I'm not currently overweight says nothing about my morality here.
Oh yeah, I agree food overconsumption is only the tip of the iceberg. And how we judge people's generosity is another interesting one. The McMillionaires you mentioned, for example, might give a million a year to charity but if it has zero impact on the luxuries they can still afford for themselves is it actually generous?
The little old lady giving a dollar out of her pension, on the other hand, is having to actually make a sacrifice to do so.
Again, straying from the topic!
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I'm a chemist... I could probably make almost anything, including the chemicals, as long as I had the equipment... ;-)
But honestly. I don't see anything wrong with your philosophy at all. There have definitely been a lot of changes to how food is made, concerning chemicals, and personally I don't know if enough long term studies have been done on it...
That being said, I definitely enjoy my processed food. :-)0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »[
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
If someone else's stated principle makes another person feel bad, they must have some inner prompting already telling them they're behaving in an unprincipled manner, don't you think?[/b]
You presume that someone else's moralizing makes other people feel bad. That's a mistaken presumption. Being judged by someone else does not equate to feeling bad about one's own choices.
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yes,I think its a good food philosophy bc its just another way of saying that u r 'eating clean' where you don't eat anything that comes in a package.Nakeshia88 wrote: »My new philosophy for food is that if you can't grow it, catch it, kill it or make it yourself then don't eat it. For example: I can grow fruits/vegetables/legumes/grains and nuts so these are OK; I can fish and shoot so meat is OK; and I can/could easily learn to do things like grow/grind my own flour, salt and coffee, I can brew beer, make bread and pasta so these are OK - however, I couldn't make something like Coca Cola or anything containing artificial ingredients/additives so I won't eat these things.
So lately when I'm picking up food that's in a tin, bag or box I'll read the ingredients and ask myself, could I grow or kill these ingredients, process and mix them together myself to make this? If so, then I'll buy it, if not, back it goes! What do you think of this philosophy?
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »I think if everyone (including me) applied morality to their eating decisions no-one would be overweight (i.e applied the principle that it is wrong to over-consume).
Interesting.
We could get into a debate about gluttony--what it actually means and how it fits in here.
But assuming that one does not consume more calories than one needs (and again, what does that mean?) at the expense of someone else, why is it immoral to do so?
I'm correlating overweight with having consumed more calories than one needs (as I said in my last post, barring certain medical conditions).
Whether it's considered immoral depends on whether a person believes one shouldn't take more of the earth's resources than they need. For example, does my overeating mean that somewhere, someone else is going hungry? I remember the days of parents telling their children not to waste food because "there are children starving in Africa", but even at a local level, for example, I could take the food I overconsume and put it in the community food bank for someone who really needs it, at no extra cost to myself.lemurcat12 wrote: »Making overeating a moral issue seems really unhelpful, IMO, and achieves rather the opposite of helping people think about their decisions logically. It seems to invite shame and guilt.
I know one person (a family member) who applies this thinking succesfully; in fact it was he who suggested the idea to me. After being a yo-yo dieter and slightly overweight for most of his life, he now finds it a very powerful motivation to keep his weight in check and has applied this very successfully for the past 20 years. He claims he loses his appetite if he goes more than a pound or two over his ideal weight. There may be some guilt involved in this, but it doesn't seem to affect him apart from he will modify his food consumption for a day or two until his weight returns to normal.
It's all tied to the idea that people are more motivated to do things at higher levels of being. Wanting to lose weight just to look better is clearly a very superficial motivation. Wanting to lose weight to improve one's health is higher up the scale as it also benefits other people, your family for example, and means that you won't be a drain on the healthcare system. Wanting to not-overconsume food on the principle that you shouldn't take more than you need goes a notch further.
An interesting discussion, for sure.
After further research, I'm not too sure you're correct in that assessment of the disease to which you're referring, but that is a topic for another thread and another day.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »[
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
If someone else's stated principle makes another person feel bad, they must have some inner prompting already telling them they're behaving in an unprincipled manner, don't you think?[/b]
You presume that someone else's moralizing makes other people feel bad. That's a mistaken presumption. Being judged by someone else does not equate to feeling bad about one's own choices.
Oh, I agree that's if someone is sound in their own mind about the choices they've made then someone else 'judging' them won't make them feel bad. So my thinking is that if it does make them feel bad it must be because they already felt it was wrong, to some extent.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »
After further research, I'm not too sure you're correct in that assessment of the disease to which you're referring, but that is a topic for another thread and another day.
Yeah, for sure. I'm trying to get some more info myself from some people I know who are personally affected (hence my awareness of its existence in the first place). Admittedly it's not likely to apply to many people on MFP.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »[
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
If someone else's stated principle makes another person feel bad, they must have some inner prompting already telling them they're behaving in an unprincipled manner, don't you think?[/b]
You presume that someone else's moralizing makes other people feel bad. That's a mistaken presumption. Being judged by someone else does not equate to feeling bad about one's own choices.
Oh, I agree that's if someone is sound in their own mind about the choices they've made then someone else 'judging' them won't make them feel bad. So my thinking is that if it does make them feel bad it must be because they already felt it was wrong, to some extent.
Gotcha. I admit I find it annoying (not quite the right word... perplexing... baffling maybe?) because I don't like that sort of thing, but ... how to explain... I'll give you an example.
I've dyed my hair weird colors for over 10 years now. We live in a pretty conservative suburban area. Usually, I get a positive response, but over the years, there has been the odd rude stare or comment. Now, my choice of hair color impacts those people no more than my eating legumes affects someone who eats Paleo. It's rather silly to be judged in either of those cases. I don't feel bad for either my hair or my lentils... just worth noting in a ... what's it to you? sort of way. (Not that I said anything to the rude hair comment people other than... Oh?)
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mwebster11 wrote: »
yes,I think its a good food philosophy bc its just another way of saying that u r 'eating clean' where you don't eat anything that comes in a package.Nakeshia88 wrote: »My new philosophy for food is that if you can't grow it, catch it, kill it or make it yourself then don't eat it. For example: I can grow fruits/vegetables/legumes/grains and nuts so these are OK; I can fish and shoot so meat is OK; and I can/could easily learn to do things like grow/grind my own flour, salt and coffee, I can brew beer, make bread and pasta so these are OK - however, I couldn't make something like Coca Cola or anything containing artificial ingredients/additives so I won't eat these things.
So lately when I'm picking up food that's in a tin, bag or box I'll read the ingredients and ask myself, could I grow or kill these ingredients, process and mix them together myself to make this? If so, then I'll buy it, if not, back it goes! What do you think of this philosophy?
Why is Fage plain yogurt bad for me?
What about the Traders Point cottage cheese I picked up yesterday?
Maytag blue cheese (delicious, btw)?
The eggs I get from a local farm (they come in a carton since they'd be awfully hard to carry otherwise).
The frozen trout I got from a guy who caught it?
The steak I'm cooking tonight (from a local farm and pastured, but packaged because of state law).
The various oatmeals I prefer (my favorite comes in a bag, I've been eating one that comes in a box, both are oats only).
Spinach in a bag (I'm sometimes lazy).
Not seeing why any of these food are unhealthy.0 -
mwebster11 wrote: »
yes,I think its a good food philosophy bc its just another way of saying that u r 'eating clean' where you don't eat anything that comes in a package.Nakeshia88 wrote: »My new philosophy for food is that if you can't grow it, catch it, kill it or make it yourself then don't eat it. For example: I can grow fruits/vegetables/legumes/grains and nuts so these are OK; I can fish and shoot so meat is OK; and I can/could easily learn to do things like grow/grind my own flour, salt and coffee, I can brew beer, make bread and pasta so these are OK - however, I couldn't make something like Coca Cola or anything containing artificial ingredients/additives so I won't eat these things.
So lately when I'm picking up food that's in a tin, bag or box I'll read the ingredients and ask myself, could I grow or kill these ingredients, process and mix them together myself to make this? If so, then I'll buy it, if not, back it goes! What do you think of this philosophy?
Things I ate today from a package:
Fage 2% Yogurt
Cottage cheese
Frozen raspberries
Black beans (these were in burgers, which I made myself, they also included packaged garbanzo bean flour)
An egg
Pumpkin puree
Gluten free rolled oats
Tomato
Romaine Lettuce
How are these foods "unclean" or not healthy?
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I don't think I've suggested anywhere to never eat food from a package have I? That would just be unnecessarily restricting, if not impossible!0
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Luckily for me, I can grow sausage egg & cheese mcmuffins.0
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »As an aside, MFP discussions inspired me to go back to my roots when money was scarce, and say, challenge myself to make five meals out of a single chicken. I believe people can eat very well, and at a deficit, on a limited budget.
Ha ha - that sounds just like something my mum would do! She prides herself on getting at least ten family meals out of the Christmas turkey, for example and refuses to throw anything away. She takes it too far though and extends that philosophy to fruit that's gone mouldy and stale bread.
Was she by chance Cajun or Creole?
That was my dad's philosophy growing up. We were nit allowed to throw out any spoiled or moldy food. It was just made into something else. We ate a lot of gumbos and jambalayas, with lots of spices.
Didn't learn about throwing out bad food until a few years into my marriage...That was a very interesting talk.
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PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »Luckily for me, I can grow sausage egg & cheese mcmuffins.
That work for ya?
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Was she by chance Cajun or Creole? That was my dad's philosophy growing up. We were nit allowed to throw out any spoiled or moldy food. It was just made into something else. We ate a lot of gumbos and jambalayas, with lots of spices.
Didn't learn about throwing out bad food until a few years into my marriage...That was a very interesting talk.
No, but her parents were Italian immigrant working people, and she grew up during the Depression/WW2.0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »Luckily for me, I can grow sausage egg & cheese mcmuffins.
That work for ya?
I'd love to see someone growing any one of sodium acetate, fumaric acid, calcium sulfate, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, maltodextrin, calcium propanoate, sodium benzoate, DATEM, or sorbitan monostearate... and that's just SOME of the ingredients in the bun!0 -
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bennettinfinity wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
For me this one isn't the case. I'm one of those vegetarian folks who does it for moral/ethical and not for diet. However, I don't think anyone else's morality is on the line if they happen to choose to put meat on their plate. Mine is totally a personal choice and while I care what I put on my plate, I don't give a gosh darn about what other people put on their plates. For most people the food they eat is not a moral choice and there is nothing wrong with that.
I don't think that's what he was talking about though, at least not in terms of the discussions as they sometimes go on these boards.
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Nakeshia88 wrote: »I don't think I've suggested anywhere to never eat food from a package have I? That would just be unnecessarily restricting, if not impossible!
Isnt that what you are talking about doing anyway?
I get restricting foods for medical reasons. I dont get it otherwise.
I get feeling good about trying to eat more whole foods, but personally dont see why I would cut anything out of my diet.
Cut down, maybe, but altogether? Not for me!
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How did this become a discussion about morals?!0
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The philosophy word maybe?Nakeshia88 wrote: »How did this become a discussion about morals?!
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These discussions often take off on tangents, but many times they lead somewhere that's very interesting. I've learned alot in 2 1/2 years. Keep on keeping on.
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Nakeshia88 wrote: »How did this become a discussion about morals?!
Primarily:Chrysalid2014 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »[
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
To be fair, I think if everyone (including me) applied morality to their eating decisions no-one would be overweight (i.e applied the principle that it is wrong to over-consume). So perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad thing.
If someone else's stated principle makes another person feel bad, they must have some inner prompting already telling them they're behaving in an unprincipled manner, don't you think?
On a practical level it would be impossible for the majority of people in the world to grow/kill their own food, so for most of us there's no moral decision to be made on that front. Where I live it might be possible if I got good with a slingshot and developed a taste for urban gull meat and rats.0 -
Nakeshia88 wrote: »I don't think I've suggested anywhere to never eat food from a package have I? That would just be unnecessarily restricting, if not impossible!
Someone else did and seemed to think that's what you were doing. My post about packaged items was a response to that person (and probably mamapeach's was also).
I agree that you were clear enough that that's not what you were doing.0 -
SnuggleSmacks wrote: »
I keep meaning to play around with homemade ginger ales. I really love those when restaurants do them. But alas, I'm lazy.0 -
MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
*APPLAUSE*
glad i'm not the only one who sees the animosity every time someone suggests "giving something up" or "making at tiny change"
It's not the end of the world if someone decides not to eat brownies and Coke, people!!0 -
I don't do well with unnecessarily restrictive diets. My philosophy: Moderation, variation, and NO unnecessary elimination! I think that this is a healthier approach (especially mentally and for the long term). I don't feel any guilt if I eat something I'm not "supposed" to. I don't "punish" myself if I go off plan or even if I over eat (bachelorette party on Saturday was delicious and I ate well over my calorie goal, but it was one day, I enjoyed it, and now I'm just moving forward).
Normally, I do make "better" choices during 75-80% of the day (busy filling in my macros and micros), but by the end of the day, I'm having a decadent treat that I can fit within my calorie goals. My liver and kidneys (and yours, too) do a fantastic job of getting rid of the things I don't need (if they aren't working properly, you'd need to go to the hospital immediately, no diet can fix that).
"Whether or not you can pronounce a food ingredient has absolutely no relevance to its safety."
"Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food." - Eric Helms
Having said that, if it works for you, more power to you! *drinks protein shake* 0
This discussion has been closed.
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