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Perspective - Not all calories created equal
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Agreed. I try to think of the calorie limit set by mfp as a "budget" where I can spend on either this or that, but which one is going to leave me fuller? Even if it is a sweet tooth I need to satisfy, which can I have more of; a bowl of strawberries or a piece of pie. I'd choose the one I can eat more of most of the time. The important thing (to me anyway) is giving yourself a choice.
I think we must plan our days differently. I plan my diary at the beginning of the day. I eat my main meal at "lunch" and pretty much eat the same thing (with minor variations) for breakfast and dinner every day. Those three meals plus one snack provide me with all the nutrition and satiety my body needs. If I have calories left over?
Well, I look at my macros then. One day this past week, I was low on protein and fat. I added in a snack of a hard boiled egg. Another day, I was good on fat, but low on protein. I added a cheese stick. Another day? I needed fat and had carbs to spare. I added in a fun sized Snickers bar. I could have had a hard boiled egg for the same rough calories as the Snickers bar, but at that point... why bother? I already had all the nutrition I needed and was full.
That's how I do my choosing.
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Exactly! I'd have no problem eating the rolls and that nice little sprinkle donut in the middle.mamapeach910 wrote: »She could have at least used a good looking donuts like these, that one was just sad:
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How many calories are you harping on? 10? 40? 50?
*facepalm*
Comparing high fibre bread to low fibre bread [1]: A difference of up to 8%. That's just one foodstuff.
I doubt anyone has commissioned a study comparing spring rolls to doughnuts.
Is 8% meaningful? What if it's only 2% daily for all dietary intake? Sure that's meaningful over the course of a day, a week, a month, a year, a lifetime.
None of this is new. USDA studies in the 80's showed a 3 and 4% difference between high and low fibre diets when it came to carbohydrate and fat digestibility. Based on the subject's [2] intake calories (~3100/day - same basic mix of C/F/P) * 365 * 3% = 33,945 calories excreted rather than metabolised. For the unwary, that's a number of pounds a month in potential weight gain simply due to differing food sources.
Meaningful?
Given the title of this thread, Perspective: Not all calories created are equal the examples provided and reference material presented and readily available indeed back up the OP's contention. Off the plate and down your gullet, not all calories are created equal. That is meaningful.
[1] High-fiber rye diet increases ileal excretion of energy and macronutrients compared with low-fiber wheat diet independent of meal frequency in ileostomy subjects, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Isaksson et al
[2] Effect of Dietary Fiber on the Metabolizable Energy of Human Diets, USDA, Miles et al 19880 -
Better comparison would be
PB, Banana, on 2 pieces of toast:410
DDonuts Coffee Roll: 410
Tough call....0 -
Doughnut for me. Even if its evil or bad.0
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recipe directions plsI made myself some giant veggie/chicken spring rolls for lunch today and it just amazed me the comparison of calories between them and some donuts my husband brought home this weekend. What are some calorie comparisons that you have discovered since using mfp that are pretty amazing?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
She could have at least used a good looking donuts like these, that one was just sad:
Actually thats true it was a little sad.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »I'd like to dispute the fact, after I looked up other such claims over other certain foods/drinks "boosting metabolism" or "taking more calories to digest than others" and so on
Please read the above. Neither I nor the studies referenced (and there are dozens more out there) make the claims you think I'm making.
We are talking about poop here.
More specifically, the amount of not fully digested and absorbed carbs and fats in the poop of those enjoying high fibre diets is higher than those who live on low fibre diets even though both consume the same base mix of carbs/fats/proteins and the same base caloric intake.
Put more simply, if it makes it out the other end undigested/unabsorbed, it's as if it wasn't there in the first place.
Bonus round: 30 - 40,000 kcal/year is a bunch of "free" beers (about 180 bottles).
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Please read the above. Neither I nor the studies referenced (and there are dozens more out there) make the claims you think I'm making.
We are talking about poop here.
More specifically, the amount of not fully digested and absorbed carbs and fats in the poop of those enjoying high fibre diets is higher than those who live on low fibre diets even though both consume the same base mix of carbs/fats/proteins and the same base caloric intake.
Put more simply, if it makes it out the other end undigested/unabsorbed, it's as if it wasn't there in the first place.
Bonus round: 30 - 40,000 kcal/year is a bunch of "free" beers (about 180 bottles).
Why are you going on so much about this? It's not an either/or proposition.
You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a false presumption.
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I think the take away from this thread is there needs to be some sort of donut-spingroll hybrid. Like maybe donuts stuffed in the springroll or maybe instead of rice paper you have something like donut paper with veggies still inside of it. Either way it's glazed. That's a given. Also I'm using nacho cheese instead of mustard. That's just me though.
This has my vote.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a false presumption.
Please show me where I've stated this let alone presumed it.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Why are you going on so much about this? It's not an either/or proposition.
You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a false presumption.
I haven't been following this enough to know how the 30-40,000 kcal was calculated, but how about the person uses those calories on "free" donuts instead of "free" beer. I don't drink beer.
Well, I also wouldn't want the pictured donut, so let's say ice cream.
Is the ice cream okay if it goes along with a high fiber diet (as is typically recommended by the moderates on MFP) or does it somehow negate it in a special way even though beer would be okay?
Or, more simply, what mamapeach said.0 -
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Love donuts. But 99.9999% of the time, they're just not worth the calories.0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a pretty safe assumption. It's not always correct, but if you make that assumption, you will (in America, at least) be right quite a more than you'll be wrong.
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I want those spring rolls.0
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Rye is tasty.
The same high fibre / reduction in digested & absorbed calories relationship exists for fat intake too.
Bring out the fibre-filled sausages.
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
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Please show me where I've stated this let alone presumed it.
Well, see, the thing is, the OP wasn't really going on with the whole a "calorie is not a calorie" (which is not true no matter what you want to say) in the way most people usually do, but you went there anyway. So I'm going with how you interpreted it.
She was just comparing the food volume of two foods of equal caloric values.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Apparently you're missing out on 30,000 calories of gluten free beer.
Blech.0 -
That's a pretty safe assumption. It's not always correct, but if you make that assumption, you will (in America, at least) be right quite a more than you'll be wrong.
Eh, I'll leave the generalizations to the posters here on this board when we're discussing our eating patterns, not to the eaters of SAD. It's not fair to discuss one particular poster's diet vs. all of America.
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Love donuts. But 99.9999% of the time, they're just not worth the calories.
Even if I could still eat them, I tend to agree with you. I was spoiled for life with donuts. When I was a kid, this little old nun in the parish convent used to make donuts every Shrove Tuesday. They were beyond magnificent.
Nothing could ever surpass those, and only those would be worth the calories. The Sister who made those is long gone from the world, and I can't eat donuts any more. I'll just remember them fondly.
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Damn. What am I going to wash down the cardboard crusted gluten free pizza with now?
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The best doughnut, totally worth the calories. (The thing it's not worth? That I had one more than two weeks ago, and I am still craving another.)
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Your husband really needs to step up his doughnut game...Lovely looking springurrito rolls though....0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Well, see, the thing is, the OP wasn't really going on with the whole a "calorie is not a calorie" (which is not true no matter what you want to say) in the way most people usually do, but you went there anyway. So I'm going with how you interpreted it.
I wasn't responding to the OP. I was responding to a facet of the following statement:A calorie is a calorie. Just like a inch is an inch and a centimeter is a centimeter. What material you're MEASURING may be different though.
Lots of foods offer more VOLUME and NUTRIENTS per calorie than others, but if you're going to compared 300 calories of a wrap and 300 calories of a donut, it's still 300 calories to the body in terms of energy.
And I quantified my response by stating that what ninerbuff said was true while the foodstuffs are on the plate, the practical reality out the rear end is a little different.
All the presumptions relating to my contributions are being made by others, including you.
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*facepalm*
Comparing high fibre bread to low fibre bread [1]: A difference of up to 8%. That's just one foodstuff.
I doubt anyone has commissioned a study comparing spring rolls to doughnuts.
Is 8% meaningful? What if it's only 2% daily for all dietary intake? Sure that's meaningful over the course of a day, a week, a month, a year, a lifetime.
None of this is new. USDA studies in the 80's showed a 3 and 4% difference between high and low fibre diets when it came to carbohydrate and fat digestibility. Based on the subject's [2] intake calories (~3100/day - same basic mix of C/F/P) * 365 * 3% = 33,945 calories excreted rather than metabolised. For the unwary, that's a number of pounds a month in potential weight gain simply due to differing food sources.
Meaningful?
Given the title of this thread, Perspective: Not all calories created are equal the examples provided and reference material presented and readily available indeed back up the OP's contention. Off the plate and down your gullet, not all calories are created equal. That is meaningful.
[1] High-fiber rye diet increases ileal excretion of energy and macronutrients compared with low-fiber wheat diet independent of meal frequency in ileostomy subjects, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Isaksson et al
[2] Effect of Dietary Fiber on the Metabolizable Energy of Human Diets, USDA, Miles et al 1988
Wait?!
How is this first study relevant - most of us here haven't had an ilesotomy.
3-4% between high and low? I'd assume that most people fall in the middle quintiles and see then only a variance of +\- 1-2%. Insignificant. Erased by homeostasis.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Prunes for you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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