Ayurvedic nutrition for weight loss (and general sanity)

Wow, lots of opinions here. So I'll add mine and see where it goes...

First some background on me: I'm female, 45, 282lbs. My weight issues began shortly after I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar and I was prescribed Lithium. Apparently I am allergic to lithium and it caused my thyroid to almost completely shut down. Over the course of 3 months I literally doubled in weight. I went from 125 to 250. Once they took me off the lithium, (yes it took them 3 months to figure out it was the culprit) I stopped gaining the weight but the damage to my body was done. They then placed me on a high dose of Depakote to which I also had a negative reaction to - insatiable hunger. I would eat a meal consisting of nearly a thousand calories (and I tried to make the majority of the meal fresh vegetables and lean protiens) within 15 or so minutes I would feel hunger pangs to the extent it would bring me to tears. To combat this the doctor also prescribed Topomax which has a common side effect of anorexic behavior. It helped some. By this point I had increased in weight to 335lbs. I was depressed, in pain due to a lower back injury and miserable.

5 years ago I joined a local gym and with help from a friend who is also a personal trainer I managed to lose weight and get down to 262lbs. My biggest 2 hurdles were constant pain levels of 7-9 on the 10 point scale, and I still tend to want to stress eat. Then this past winter when the temperatures plummitted my pain went off the charts. Standing up made my knees feel like someone was shooting them at point blank range with a shotgun. The muscles in my thighs were so tight that you could bounce coins off of them (even though they are surrounded by thick layers of cellulite). I went to my doctor who ran some in depth tests which came back with the diagnosis of Mixed Connective Tissue Diseaase. This is an auto-immune disease that attacks the connective tissue of the body. A basic summary of the disease is that it takes every disease that falls under the umbrella of auto-immune diseases that affect connective tissue such as Lupus and Rhumitoid Artheritis, throws them in a bag, shakes vigorously and draws out random symptoms. Which means that I have all of those diseases and yet none of them. Yay me.....

This disease has no cure just treatment options. Western medicine offers two treatment options for me - Long term corticosteroids such as Prednisone or Anti-Malaria drugs. Well the steroids are out for two reasons, first and formost they paly hell with my Bi-Polar. Steroids negatively affect moods in people..."roid rage" anyone? Secondly, long term steroid use causes vision loss, irregular heartbeat (a symptom I already have is Arhythmia, let's make that worse), breathing difficulties (I already have Asthma...), numbness in the extremities, swelling in the extremities and weight gain to name a few issues. So no, not worth it. Long term use of Anti-Malaria drugs can cause retinal damage, seizures, severe depression, muscle pain (instead of joint pain - ok, trade one pain for another why?), hallucinations, vertgo, tinnitus, insomnia and irregular heartbeat (see previous note) to name a few. Once again, sooooooo not worth it.

So where does that leave me, a lifetime doomed to suffer excruciating pain and physical degeneration and debilitation. If I can avoid that then I want to. So since Western science has limited options I looked to the East. What do I have to lose right? After weeks and months of online and physical research I have found that Ayurvedic practices tend to have the most profound results for people suffering from my illness and from many of the symptoms of my illness. Yes, the vast majority of the evidence is strictly anecdotal but when you see account after account of people saying that when using either of the two treatments noted above they were miserable and in declining health but when they adopted Ayurvedic practices their health improved and in some cases even went into remission. I have even found a few studies being made of some of the spices frequently used in Ayurvedic food recommendations. Turmeric and Ginger mostly. Western science has confirmed the anti-inflammitory propereties of both of these spices which is why they use steroids to treat my illness. Also both stimulate digestion which helps the body retain the useful nutrients it needs to be healthy. There are many more proposed studies of Ayurvedic foods and practices out there but they are meeting resistance from the pharmicutical lobbies. You have to wonder why that is.....fear of losing profits perhaps if the studies prove in favor of the Ayurvedics?

One thing to remember about Western Medicine, it is designed to treat illness after is discovered. Eastern Medicine is designed to prevent illness in the first place.

I'm not saying that Western Medicine and Science is a bad thing or something that should be demonized and avoided. It has its palce and benefits. But Just because we in the west are unfamiliar with Eastern Medicine and Science doesn't mean it should also be demonized and avoided. I mean, it has been around for centuries - practically unchanged for the most part for many of the latest centuries. And we see that it tends to work for those in the countries that use it almost exclusively. Shoot, in India, where poverty and filth are rampant people are for the most part relatively healthy and live long, productive lives. If those same conditions were found here in the West we certainly wouldn't have the great number of populations that India, China and Japan have. I dare say our populations would drastically decline. I place this under the heading of "If it ain't broke - don't fix it," and it doesn't seem to be broken.

I have been slowly adapting my diet and lifestyle to one that has more Ayurvedic practices. I don't plan to immurse myself in it nor go completely vegetarian (Can we say Bacon?). But adding more vegitarian meals and dishes to my diet can't hurt me so long as I do my research and make sure I am getting the correct balances of nutrition. Meditation for a few minutes a day can't hurt me. And becoming a more thoughtful and mindful person can only improve me and be positive for those around me. So call this woo if you want, call it superstition and uneducated. But in the words of my Doctor, " If it isn't making you worse and it does give you positive results - go for it. What do you have to lose?"

And by the way, just since I have begun consuming 1 tablespoon of Turmeric and 1 tablespoon of fresh Ginger daily my pain levels have dropped noticebly and I am able to actually walk for more than 10 minutes without hurting so much that I have to lay down for a half hour afterwards. I went for a 25 minute walk with my dog yesterday morning with the only adverse reaction being muscle soreness in my thighs this morning. But it was the muscle soreness you get from working out - not just pain for pain sake. Think about that a minute before you jump to begin explaining to me the errors of my thinking.

mamapeach910 wrote: »

The placebo effect lives. I know turmeric has mild anti-inflammatory properties, but your pain sounded more profound. It's really no more effective than taking ibuprofen... if that. Perhaps it just added enough of an edge to allow you to exercise, which I personally found to have the greatest pain-relieving benefit of all.

I am glad you are finding relief for your condition, through whatever means. Even if it's just the belief that you would.

Like you would know anything about it. Ginger and turmeric are proven by western medicine for pain.

TheDevastator wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

The placebo effect lives. I know turmeric has mild anti-inflammatory properties, but your pain sounded more profound. It's really no more effective than taking ibuprofen... if that. Perhaps it just added enough of an edge to allow you to exercise, which I personally found to have the greatest pain-relieving benefit of all.

I am glad you are finding relief for your condition, through whatever means. Even if it's just the belief that you would.

Like you would know anything about it. Ginger and turmeric are proven by western medicine for pain.

You stopped reading my post after my first sentence, didn't you?

senecarr wrote: »

TheDevastator wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

The placebo effect lives. I know turmeric has mild anti-inflammatory properties, but your pain sounded more profound. It's really no more effective than taking ibuprofen... if that. Perhaps it just added enough of an edge to allow you to exercise, which I personally found to have the greatest pain-relieving benefit of all.

I am glad you are finding relief for your condition, through whatever means. Even if it's just the belief that you would.

Like you would know anything about it. Ginger and turmeric are proven by western medicine for pain.

Probably why she said "I know turmeric has mild anti-inflammatory properties, but your pain sounded more profound. It's really no more effective than taking ibuprofen..."

There's the second sentence. Thanks to senecarr for reiterating it.

For the record? I HAVE a painful autoimmune condition that effects both the joints and the attached ligaments. Pain relief on the level of Ibuprofen? Wouldn't and didn't touch it.

I'm still sticking with the placebo theory combined with some mild pain relief.

You're only talking about diet. Ayurveda and monastic medicine encompass/ed a lot more than diet and herbs.

Also, after some research on your condition, considering the therapies offered to you and what you've said here, it's clear that it's not progressed much.

I'd like to see how you feel about these Eastern approaches were you suffering from further complications and a longer time frame.

Assessments on the pain scale are useless barometers of disease severity or progression. Everyone's pain tolerance varies.

Senecarr,

I apologize if my use of the term "Western Medicine" bothers you. If you note in my earlier post, I also use the term "Eastern Medicine." I only use these terms to separate the modalities of thought not their scientific values or abilities. I firmly believe that people in the Eastern hemisphere are just as capable of scientific thought as their Western counterparts. In fact I tend to believe that much of the science of the East is more advanced than the science of the West because they tend to be more open to ancient practices as being valid inside of science as opposed to writing it off as mere superstition. I am not trying to be elitist or romanticize any culture or belief system.

Unfortunately our society uses umbrella terms to express concepts and without using those terms it is difficult to make a point that is more easily understood.

"mamapeach910 wrote: »

But for the benefit of the other people participating in the discussion, I think the science and mechanism of why you feel better is important.

One problem with that logic. If you are applying the placebo effect as the primary cause of any possible positive response to using spices for pain management, or any of the Ayurvedic Practices for that matter, then making the patient aware of the placebo removes its ability to generate the positive response. That is proven psychology. So telling me that the turmeric and ginger don't really have much benefit just inflates your sense of ego by showing off your intellect in a public forum - it has no possibility of helping me with my pain control. If I were to actually believe your statement then you would have effectively increased my pain.

Think your arguments through to their complete conclusion. By your own argument for placebo effect then ignorance is truly bliss. Sometimes just because we believe a thing is true doesn't mean that we are required to or should try to make others believe the same.

Food for thought.

JheanW wrote: »

"mamapeach910 wrote: »

But for the benefit of the other people participating in the discussion, I think the science and mechanism of why you feel better is important.

One problem with that logic. If you are applying the placebo effect as the primary cause of any possible positive response to using spices for pain management, or any of the Ayurvedic Practices for that matter, then making the patient aware of the placebo removes its ability to generate the positive response. That is proven psychology. So telling me that the turmeric and ginger don't really have much benefit just inflates your sense of ego by showing off your intellect in a public forum - it has no possibility of helping me with my pain control. If I were to actually believe your statement then you would have effectively increased my pain.

Think your arguments through to their complete conclusion. By your own argument for placebo effect then ignorance is truly bliss. Sometimes just because we believe a thing is true doesn't mean that we are required to or should try to make others believe the same.

Food for thought.

Sorry, your reasoning doesn't pan out. Firstly, there's nothing wrong with the belief in the efficacy of something being one of the primary sources of of its effectiveness -- unless that is being hidden under mysticism and sold. Someone even stated as much somewhere upthread. She acknowledged that and still believes in the efficacy of alternative healing. Stating the role the recipient plays in things doesn't diminish his or her faith in the process if he's already handed it over. That's not how the psychology of belief works.

I would just rather, as a skeptic, see people believe in themselves as the agents of self-determined change for the better in their health than place faith in something that doesn't have proven benefit beyond what they could pick up at the local Rite-Aid. You are a bigger agent for positive changes than you give yourself credit for.

There's plenty of evidence in this thread that people are willing to hand over faith, money, and agency in the name of weight loss and health.

ejbronte wrote: »

"If you've had results which surpassed taking ibuprofen, your belief in what they could do for you did that."

I think it would be a mistake to underestimate the importance of this observation:

This may be the key that needs the most attention in discussing these traditional methods, as opposed to the more directly science-based methods: I feel that a patient always should be an active participant in his or her recovery, and that a negative attitude is generally harmful to almost any effort while an aggressively constructive attitude is generally a considerable aid no matter which medical method is being used.

But it may be that with such methods as acupuncture, ayurveda, and other such methods, the mindset and emotional receptivity of the patient is much more vital. So, for an inherently skeptical person, ayurveda, for example, has no effect; for a person willing to believe, it would like be effective. MamaP, for you and likely for me, it wouldn't work; for JheanW, it does, in part because the mind and emotional state are actively encouraging it.

From my perspective, this does not invalidate the results that JheanW experiences. For me, it underscores the suggestions by those who say that, used intelligently, there is room for various theories of medicine and wellbeing to work together.

I've bolded the key word in what you said. The biggest problem with all of this is that because there is a currency of belief involved, the whole area is ripe for people being parted from their money in unscrupulous ways for unfounded reasons.

There's a whole website... http://whatstheharm.net/... devoted to answering the question... "what could happen?" when people seek out alternative therapies without engaging some critical thinking.

There's also Quackwatch. And even though someone posted links trying to discredit the PERSON behind it, doing that does NOTHING to discredit the information posted on that site. You can't find anything to discredit it outside of the woo sites themselves.

mamapeach910 wrote: »

I've bolded the key word in what you said. The biggest problem with all of this is that because there is a currency of belief involved, the whole area is ripe for people being parted from their money in unscrupulous ways for unfounded reasons.

There's a whole website... http://whatstheharm.net/... devoted to answering the question... "what could happen?" when people seek out alternative therapies without engaging some critical thinking.

There's also Quackwatch. And even though someone posted links trying to discredit the PERSON behind it, doing that does NOTHING to discredit the information posted on that site. You can't find anything to discredit it outside of the woo sites themselves.

Totally agreed, without a doubt, analysis and critical thinking is even more important when looking into alternative methods, precisely because of the level of belief and trust necessary. Without a doubt, there are many quacks in the profession. There are, unfortunately, also many quacks in Western medicine, as well; or doctors all too willing to medicate or operate unnecessarily. Critical thinking is advisable no matter what aspect of medical care one turns to; and of course, in times of stress, pain or illness, critical thinking is very difficult. Hopefully, we all have someone at our side who can help us make vital decisions (and hopefully, we are all equipped and able to return such favors if/when we're needed).