Ayurvedic nutrition for weight loss (and general sanity)
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ShareenaFulton wrote: »It's funny. We have a tendency, as people, to live under this compulsive belief that our bodies are given to us like old, clapped out, second hand cars. Sure, we can get from a to b fine, we're comfortable enough but we're just not as good as we could be. But with tweaking here, a few replacements, maybe a cosmetic upgrade, we'll be better than ever.
This kind of thinking is even more apparent when it comes to weightloss. Suddenly you find that your body needs to be kickstarted, your digestive system boosted, your fat flushed and all those nasty toxin cleansed. By the end of it, you're wondering how you even managed to function before, with all the outside, often expensive and elaborate treatments needed to just keep your heart beating.
The thing is, your body (minus unavoidable illness) is a friggin Rolls Royce of cars. Your body is strong, efficient, adaptable and unbelievably resilient. Your digestive system is a wonder. We can eat near enough anything, survive in any terrain and weather and endure unbelievable hardships. Your body is adaptable enough to work with whatever you give it. A diet solely of meat, fish and blubber? Works great. A diet entirely of cabbage soup? Gassy, but still working.
I'm not saying "don't try to eat healthy and exercise". A varied diet and lots of movement has great physical and psychological benefits. What I am saying is that we shouldn't fall prey to the notion that, by eating a handful of berries or drinking lemon every morning, that we have discovered a convenient miracle "cure" to what our rusty old bodies, with all those thousands of years uselessly evolving and adapting to keep us alive, has completely f*cked up.
It's more sustainable, easier and cheaper in the long run to keep to the very basic and simple rules of eating in moderation and exercising frequently that is the general backbone to losing weight and maintaining it afterwards. Boring, I know, but sometimes the best answers are the simplest.
^^0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »You're incorrect that a placebo effect has no medical value.
By definition (as pointed out above) you're incorrect.
If a treatment has a medical value, it is by definition, not a placebo.0 -
She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
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There's a reason hospitals don't hand out m&m's as a cure-all.kshama2001 wrote: »She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
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kshama2001 wrote: »She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
So, by comparison, if I had a patient complaining of back pain, and I gave them an injection of "NorSaline" (Normal saline)..not telling them that the injection holds no medical value, and they suddenly feel better, it actually worked? No, because an injection of water did not physically help back pain.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »
There's a reason hospitals don't hand out m&m's as a cure-all.kshama2001 wrote: »She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
Funny story. I work in correctional healthcare, and we had one patient who was constantly saying the tylenol did not help his fibromyalgia.(dont even get me started on that condition lol). He was constantly drug seeking A co worker jokingly said that we should scratch a "3" on his regular tylenol and see if it helped. Of course, we didn't as my ethics in practice are much higher than that. But do you think it would have suddenly helped him?0 -
Hi original poster here. It's amazing there have been so many posts on this thread, clearly it brings alot up for folks.
One of the more interesting things for me is the dichotomies posed here. I don't think there needs to be such black and white thinking when it comes to this stuff. When I lived in new york, I went to doctors at the Continuum Center for Health and Healing, which is part of Beth Israel. These were highly qualified doctors with many published articles at one of the top hospitals in the country. You can google the hell out of it if you like, it's all there, all the scientific proof that people are clamoring for.
It was awesome to find bc they took insurance AND the doctors were versed in both eastern and western medicine. It was great because I was so much less prescribed antibiotics - they often went the more holistic/ preventative route first. And for the three years I went there, all my ailments were solved by less invasive procedures and treatments. I think (outside of western or eastern or whatever) they were also good docs bc they listened and took the time with you.
Another thing I find interesting is that western medicine in certain ways is just as hypothetical as some of what is considered eastern. I don't know how many of you have read "The Emperor of All Maladies" (which won the pulitzer and has a great appendix with lots of quoted studies) which is about cancer but for me it reformulated what I thought of as "scientific" being the be all end all and put it back in the more experimental category.
so I've enjoyed reading all of this. Keep it comin'. Good food for thought (ha).0 -
I agree Margaret. In general I tend too not believe too much in the individual prescriptives of eastern medicine. I will admit that they seem a bit too hokey. But I do like the general approach that the body is not just separate parts, it works as a whole. Like you said, it doesn't have to be either or.0
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I agree Margaret. In general I tend too not believe too much in the individual prescriptives of eastern medicine. I will admit that they seem a bit too hokey. But I do like the general approach that the body is not just separate parts, it works as a whole. Like you said, it doesn't have to be either or.0
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Re dichotomies: "I raise both my hands to embrace it all."
~ Ramakrishna0 -
hollyrayburn wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
So, by comparison, if I had a patient complaining of back pain, and I gave them an injection of "NorSaline" (Normal saline)..not telling them that the injection holds no medical value, and they suddenly feel better, it actually worked? No, because an injection of water did not physically help back pain.
Since the patient felt better, the TREATMENT worked, yes. Not the saline by itself, but some combination of your injecting it and the patient's belief that it would work.
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kshama2001 wrote: »hollyrayburn wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
So, by comparison, if I had a patient complaining of back pain, and I gave them an injection of "NorSaline" (Normal saline)..not telling them that the injection holds no medical value, and they suddenly feel better, it actually worked? No, because an injection of water did not physically help back pain.
Since the patient felt better, the TREATMENT worked, yes. Not the saline by itself, but some combination of your injecting it and the patient's belief that it would work.
The placebo effect has no medical effect. It makes you feel better, whatever caused the problem is still there, you just think you're better.0 -
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary0 -
stevencloser wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »hollyrayburn wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
So, by comparison, if I had a patient complaining of back pain, and I gave them an injection of "NorSaline" (Normal saline)..not telling them that the injection holds no medical value, and they suddenly feel better, it actually worked? No, because an injection of water did not physically help back pain.
Since the patient felt better, the TREATMENT worked, yes. Not the saline by itself, but some combination of your injecting it and the patient's belief that it would work.
The placebo effect has no medical effect. It makes you feel better, whatever caused the problem is still there, you just think you're better.
^^ exactly. Or maybe there was nothing wrong with them in the first place.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
You can repeat that as often as you like, it doesn't mean what you think it means.0 -
Just going to leave this here because woo is what woo promises it can't deliver.
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hollyrayburn wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »hollyrayburn wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She defined "placebo." I referred to "placebo effect."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/placebo+effect
Placebo effect
A beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself.
~ The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary
Placebo effect
Placebo effect occurs when a treatment or medication with no known therapeutic value (a placebo) is administered to a patient, and the patient's symptoms improve. The patient believes and expects that the treatment is going to work, so it does. The placebo effect is also a factor to some degree in clinically-effective therapies, and explains why patients respond better than others to treatment despite similar symptoms and illnesses.
~ Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine
Placebo effect
a physical or emotional change occurring after a substance is taken or administered that is not the result of any special property of the substance. The change may be beneficial, reflecting the expectations of the patient and often those of the person giving the substance.
~ Mosby's Medical Dictionary
So, by comparison, if I had a patient complaining of back pain, and I gave them an injection of "NorSaline" (Normal saline)..not telling them that the injection holds no medical value, and they suddenly feel better, it actually worked? No, because an injection of water did not physically help back pain.
Since the patient felt better, the TREATMENT worked, yes. Not the saline by itself, but some combination of your injecting it and the patient's belief that it would work.
The placebo effect has no medical effect. It makes you feel better, whatever caused the problem is still there, you just think you're better.
^^ exactly. Or maybe there was nothing wrong with them in the first place.
Indeed. Thinking you're better and actually being better are two completely different things.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Researchers are not so quick to scoff at the value of the placebo effect as some posters here.
Here's an interesting article: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/is-the-placebo-effect-in-your-dna/390360/
Interestingly, angry/hostile people are less likely to benefit from the placebo effect. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23187726
Did you not even notice how they believed the findings in the study you cited might be of use?This initial data, if replicated in larger sample, suggest that simple trait measures easily deployable in the field could be utilized to reduce variability in clinical trials, but may also point to measures of individual resiliency in the face of aversive stimuli such as persistent pain and potentially other stressors.
Not quite how you were using the finding, as if they're looking to make people "benefit" from it. People paying for a service shouldn't get a treatment that has no therapeutic effect just to placate them.
That's the problem with this whole thing.
If someone wants to do something on their own and suddenly believes they feel better due to the placebo effect? Fine and dandy. The minute money changes hands? Things get shady.
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The following seems to sum up the dichotomy of opinions in this thread so well:
Shared medical endeavors are often frustrated by communication block, some of which stem from differences in language used by practitioners of various modalities. Apparent disparities in vocabulary and jargon may mask fundamental agreement in ideas and approach. On the other hand, lack of clarity can obscure important differences in both guiding principles and techniques. All too often, dogmatic attachments to words and specific formulations of belief, opinion, and theory exist. If the "correct" words or phrases are not used, then the speaker must be wrong!
Entrenched disagreement between dedicated orthodox and holistic practitioners becomes irrelevant when seen in the context of therapeutic ecology. Characteristics of open-mindless and tolerance should be common to all involved in health care, whether practitioners, researchers, or patients. Medical modalities with foundations outside the biomedical model should not be ignored or discounted simply because they exemplify a different belief system. They should be respected because they represent an enrichment of possibilities, not scorned as a challenge to the status quo.
Such mutually supportive endeavors in health care bear many kinds of fruit, and everyone involved will benefit. Health service administrators will appreciate the economic savings gleaned from a reduced dependence upon costly medical technology. A proportion of procedures and treatments that currently utilize expensive drugs or surgery may be replaced by more appropriate techniques from other healing modalities. For example, run-of-the-mill gallbladder removal might be avoided through the skilled use of appropriate herbs.
Excerpt from 'Medical Herbalism: the science and practice of herbal medicine', David Hoffmann, 2003.0 -
The placebo effect screws up research because the putative placebo has an effect when it is supposed to have no effect.
Also, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582668/
On February 26, 2008, PLoS Medicine published a meta-analysis that my colleagues and I had conducted on antidepressant medication (1). Most meta-analyses suffer from publication bias, which can happen when pharmaceutical companies withhold unsuccessful trials from publication (2, 3). To circumvent this, we used the Freedom of Information act in the U.S. to obtain the data on all clinical trials submitted to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the licensing of the four new-generation antidepressants.
The results of our meta-analysis showed that people got better on medication, but they also got better on placebo, and the difference between the two was small. In fact, it was below the criterion for clinical significance established by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), which sets treatment guidelines for the National Health Service in the UK. Clinical significance was found only in a few relatively small studies conducted on patients with extremely severe levels of depression.0
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