Ayurvedic nutrition for weight loss (and general sanity)

kshama2001

QuackWatchWatch / NCAHFWatch ... Who will watch the watchers?

...Stephen Joel Barrett, who claims to be a consumer advocate and watchdog has a long history of legal and media attacks, often against people far more credentialed than he.

The fact that he failed the Psychiatric Board Exams and never successfully passed them in decades of practice, tells volumes.

At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam.

In doing so, his patients never had the protection of a Medical Specialty Board. Further, from October 8, 1994 until January 8, 2007 Barrett's license was inactive as he waged a Public Relations War (he describes his team as guerrillas (spanish for warriors) against many health professionals and health activists such as myself. One of his "watch" sites is even "credential watch" ... yet his own credentials are far from impressive.

After 13 years, on January 9, 2007, he suddenly placed his license into "active-retired" status which means that he can as of that date, prescribe 'medicine' for himself and his family members only.


"... biased and unworthy of credibility."

Opinion of three California Appeals Justices in NCAHF / Barrett's losing suit lawsuit NCAHF vs. KingBio

Read more: http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/QuackWatchWatch.htm

PeachyCarol

Negative "proofs" by citing the margins on terminal illnesses, discrediting someone... No one has any proof of ayurveda yet?

Gotcha.

This has just gotten silly now.

Come on. One good, reliable study. That's all you need.

And, can anyone shed light on this little gem?

Ayurvedic treatment seeks to re-establish balance and harmony in the body's systems. Usually the first method of treatment involves some sort of detoxification and cleansing of the body, in the belief that accumulated toxins must be removed before any other methods of treatment will be effective. Methods of detoxification include therapeutic vomiting, laxatives, medicated enemas, fasting, and cleansing of the sinuses. Many Ayurvedic clinics combine all of these cleansing methods into intensive sessions known as panchakarma. Panchakarma can take several days or even weeks and they are more than elimination therapies. They also include herbalized oil massage and herbalized heat treatments. After purification, Ayurvedic physicians use herbal and mineral remedies to balance the body as well. Ayurvedic medicine contains a vast knowledge of the use of herbs for specific health problems.

More on therapeutic vomiting....http://ayurveda.iloveindia.com/panchakarma/vamana-therapy.html

peachyfuzzle

I just read this whole thing because I was bored at work, and my brain melted.

I'm going to go detoxify by eating a whole bunch of pizza.

Pizza is ayurvedic, or something... yes?

Chrysalid2014

mamapeach910 wrote: »

Negative "proofs" by citing the margins on terminal illnesses, discrediting someone... No one has any proof of ayurveda yet?

Gotcha.

This has just gotten silly now.

Come on. One good, reliable study. That's all you need.

And, can anyone shed light on this little gem?

Ayurvedic treatment seeks to re-establish balance and harmony in the body's systems. Usually the first method of treatment involves some sort of detoxification and cleansing of the body, in the belief that accumulated toxins must be removed before any other methods of treatment will be effective. Methods of detoxification include therapeutic vomiting, laxatives, medicated enemas, fasting, and cleansing of the sinuses. Many Ayurvedic clinics combine all of these cleansing methods into intensive sessions known as panchakarma. Panchakarma can take several days or even weeks and they are more than elimination therapies. They also include herbalized oil massage and herbalized heat treatments. After purification, Ayurvedic physicians use herbal and mineral remedies to balance the body as well. Ayurvedic medicine contains a vast knowledge of the use of herbs for specific health problems.

More on therapeutic vomiting....http://ayurveda.iloveindia.com/panchakarma/vamana-therapy.html

Here's one!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21617554
In this first-ever, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled pilot study comparing Ayurveda, MTX, and their combination, all 3 treatments were approximately equivalent in efficacy, within the limits of a pilot study. Adverse events were numerically fewer in the Ayurveda-only group. This study demonstrates that double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized studies are possible when testing individualized classic Ayurvedic versus allopathic treatment in ways acceptable to western standards and to Ayurvedic physicians. It also justifies the need for larger studies.

PeachyCarol

Chrysalid2014 wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

Negative "proofs" by citing the margins on terminal illnesses, discrediting someone... No one has any proof of ayurveda yet?

Gotcha.

This has just gotten silly now.

Come on. One good, reliable study. That's all you need.

And, can anyone shed light on this little gem?

Ayurvedic treatment seeks to re-establish balance and harmony in the body's systems. Usually the first method of treatment involves some sort of detoxification and cleansing of the body, in the belief that accumulated toxins must be removed before any other methods of treatment will be effective. Methods of detoxification include therapeutic vomiting, laxatives, medicated enemas, fasting, and cleansing of the sinuses. Many Ayurvedic clinics combine all of these cleansing methods into intensive sessions known as panchakarma. Panchakarma can take several days or even weeks and they are more than elimination therapies. They also include herbalized oil massage and herbalized heat treatments. After purification, Ayurvedic physicians use herbal and mineral remedies to balance the body as well. Ayurvedic medicine contains a vast knowledge of the use of herbs for specific health problems.

More on therapeutic vomiting....http://ayurveda.iloveindia.com/panchakarma/vamana-therapy.html

Here's one!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21617554
In this first-ever, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled pilot study comparing Ayurveda, MTX, and their combination, all 3 treatments were approximately equivalent in efficacy, within the limits of a pilot study. Adverse events were numerically fewer in the Ayurveda-only group. This study demonstrates that double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized studies are possible when testing individualized classic Ayurvedic versus allopathic treatment in ways acceptable to western standards and to Ayurvedic physicians. It also justifies the need for larger studies.

Nah. That's a stunning endorsement for the placebo effect. Here's the meat:

RESULTS:
All groups were comparable at baseline in demographics and disease characteristics. There were no statistically significant differences among the 3 groups on the efficacy measures. ACR20 results were MTX 86%, Ayurveda 100%, and combination 82%, and DAS28-CRP response were MTX -2.4, Ayurveda -1.7, and combination -2.4. Differences in adverse events among groups were also not statistically significant, although the MTX groups experienced more adverse event (MTX 174, Ayurveda 112, combination 176). No deaths occurred.

I've bolded the key part. The true effects on disease indicator? The CRP (inflammatory marker) reading? Showed the most decrease in the two groups taking methotrexate.

Chrysalid2014

mamapeach910 wrote: »

Chrysalid2014 wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

Negative "proofs" by citing the margins on terminal illnesses, discrediting someone... No one has any proof of ayurveda yet?

Gotcha.

This has just gotten silly now.

Come on. One good, reliable study. That's all you need.

And, can anyone shed light on this little gem?

Ayurvedic treatment seeks to re-establish balance and harmony in the body's systems. Usually the first method of treatment involves some sort of detoxification and cleansing of the body, in the belief that accumulated toxins must be removed before any other methods of treatment will be effective. Methods of detoxification include therapeutic vomiting, laxatives, medicated enemas, fasting, and cleansing of the sinuses. Many Ayurvedic clinics combine all of these cleansing methods into intensive sessions known as panchakarma. Panchakarma can take several days or even weeks and they are more than elimination therapies. They also include herbalized oil massage and herbalized heat treatments. After purification, Ayurvedic physicians use herbal and mineral remedies to balance the body as well. Ayurvedic medicine contains a vast knowledge of the use of herbs for specific health problems.

More on therapeutic vomiting....http://ayurveda.iloveindia.com/panchakarma/vamana-therapy.html

Here's one!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21617554
In this first-ever, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled pilot study comparing Ayurveda, MTX, and their combination, all 3 treatments were approximately equivalent in efficacy, within the limits of a pilot study. Adverse events were numerically fewer in the Ayurveda-only group. This study demonstrates that double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized studies are possible when testing individualized classic Ayurvedic versus allopathic treatment in ways acceptable to western standards and to Ayurvedic physicians. It also justifies the need for larger studies.

Nah. That's a stunning endorsement for the placebo effect. Here's the meat:

RESULTS:
All groups were comparable at baseline in demographics and disease characteristics. There were no statistically significant differences among the 3 groups on the efficacy measures. ACR20 results were MTX 86%, Ayurveda 100%, and combination 82%, and DAS28-CRP response were MTX -2.4, Ayurveda -1.7, and combination -2.4. Differences in adverse events among groups were also not statistically significant, although the MTX groups experienced more adverse event (MTX 174, Ayurveda 112, combination 176). No deaths occurred.

I've bolded the key part. The true effects on disease indicator? The CRP (inflammatory marker) reading? Showed the most decrease in the two groups taking methotrexate.

Ah, I see. I thought the 'efficacy' bit was the important part. But even so, doesn't the fact that the Ayurveda DAS28-CRP number decreased indicate that the treatment had some effect other than placebo?
Is +/-0.7 a significant difference for inflammatory markers? (I don't know much about this.)

PeachyCarol

Chrysalid2014 wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

Chrysalid2014 wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

Negative "proofs" by citing the margins on terminal illnesses, discrediting someone... No one has any proof of ayurveda yet?

Gotcha.

This has just gotten silly now.

Come on. One good, reliable study. That's all you need.

And, can anyone shed light on this little gem?

Ayurvedic treatment seeks to re-establish balance and harmony in the body's systems. Usually the first method of treatment involves some sort of detoxification and cleansing of the body, in the belief that accumulated toxins must be removed before any other methods of treatment will be effective. Methods of detoxification include therapeutic vomiting, laxatives, medicated enemas, fasting, and cleansing of the sinuses. Many Ayurvedic clinics combine all of these cleansing methods into intensive sessions known as panchakarma. Panchakarma can take several days or even weeks and they are more than elimination therapies. They also include herbalized oil massage and herbalized heat treatments. After purification, Ayurvedic physicians use herbal and mineral remedies to balance the body as well. Ayurvedic medicine contains a vast knowledge of the use of herbs for specific health problems.

More on therapeutic vomiting....http://ayurveda.iloveindia.com/panchakarma/vamana-therapy.html

Here's one!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21617554
In this first-ever, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled pilot study comparing Ayurveda, MTX, and their combination, all 3 treatments were approximately equivalent in efficacy, within the limits of a pilot study. Adverse events were numerically fewer in the Ayurveda-only group. This study demonstrates that double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized studies are possible when testing individualized classic Ayurvedic versus allopathic treatment in ways acceptable to western standards and to Ayurvedic physicians. It also justifies the need for larger studies.

Nah. That's a stunning endorsement for the placebo effect. Here's the meat:

RESULTS:
All groups were comparable at baseline in demographics and disease characteristics. There were no statistically significant differences among the 3 groups on the efficacy measures. ACR20 results were MTX 86%, Ayurveda 100%, and combination 82%, and DAS28-CRP response were MTX -2.4, Ayurveda -1.7, and combination -2.4. Differences in adverse events among groups were also not statistically significant, although the MTX groups experienced more adverse event (MTX 174, Ayurveda 112, combination 176). No deaths occurred.

I've bolded the key part. The true effects on disease indicator? The CRP (inflammatory marker) reading? Showed the most decrease in the two groups taking methotrexate.

Ah, I see. I thought the 'efficacy' bit was the important part. But even so, doesn't the fact that the Ayurveda DAS28-CRP number decreased indicate that the treatment had some effect other than placebo?
Is +/-0.7 a significant difference for inflammatory markers? (I don't know much about this.)

Actually? No. CRP fluctuates, and also might have some link with cortisol, along with a host of other hormonal/metabolic stuff.

All that the study really proved is what I said in my first sentence. The placebo effect is alive and well.

RA is a tough thing to do a trial of something like this on, though, because it's precisely the type of disease that's perfect for a dual approach of both allopathic an holistic medicine.

Also? The course of RA is very, very different in different individuals.

ogmomma2012

Anything that prescribes vomiting, unless you are ACTUALLY poisoned by something that you NEED to vomit out, is terrible. Now I am even more staunchly against this kind of lifestyle because it can involve very dangerous things.

snikkins

kshama2001 wrote: »

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/steve-jobs-medical-reality-distortion-field/

...So, until I can get my hands on the book (and actually have time to read it, or at least the chapters on Jobs’ illness), what can I reasonably conclude based on what is known now? First, my original assessment has changed only slightly. Based on this new information, it appears likely to me that Jobs probably did decrease his chances of survival through his nine month sojourn into woo. On the other hand, it still remains very unclear by just how much he decreased his chances of survival. My best guesstimate is that, thanks to the indolent nature of functional insulinomas and lead time bias, it was probably only by a relatively small percentage.

I also feel compelled to point out that accepting that Jobs’ choice to try “alternative medicine” first probably decreased somewhat his chances of surviving his cancer is a very different thing than concluding that “alternative medicine killed Steve Jobs,” which is in essence what Ramzi Amri and Brian Dunning both did. The first statement is a nuanced assessment of probabilities based on science and taking into account uncertainty; the latter statement is black-and-white thinking, in essence the mirror image of Nicholas Gonzalez’s claim that if only Jobs had come to see him he could have been saved.

Of course we cannot see what would have happened had he not gone down the Woobicon, but the [even somewhat likely, if you want to perhaps nitpick over this] part where he decreased his chances of survival because of it should be very alarming to anyone.

If people want to argue over it actually killing him or not, it clearly didn't help him and it certainly didn't do no harm.

bbontheb

OP-I haven't read through the long list of responses but I second the FODMAPs diet suggestion. It does have some science behind it, and has helped my stomach tremendously. Feel free to PM me anytime to chat if you want to.

bbontheb

Pancreatic cancer is going to kill you no matter what treatment you have. I firmly am anti-woo therapy and things like alkaline diet for cancer but seriously, pancreatic cancer is vicious...

morowinder

All calories not eaten are created equal, if you eat less than you expend you loose weight.

I'll take decades of scientific study over 5000 year old "knowledge" any day. The problem is that there is so much modern woo going around that people are clueless what healthy diet is.

Please don't torture your body on fad diets.

veganbaum

miriamtob wrote: »

senecarr wrote: »

miriamtob wrote: »

Aryuveda, TCM (traditional Chinese medicine), Western herbalism, etc... You may think of these things as "alternative" medicine, but they are long held traditions, which have their own healing model, which differs from allopathic medicine (the modality encompassing the western diagnoses you are accustomed to hearing about: cancer, bronchitis, congestive heart failure, etc...).

You know what they call alternative medicine that works? They just call it medicine, no need for adjectives.
You're assuming that because a fact exists in both systems (this herb helps with problem X), that it somehow implies the underlying theory (note this is the proper, scientific use of theory, as a in guiding, predication making principle) is sound. No. For Aryuveda itself to have evidence that it works, it needs to make predictions that are tested and shown valid. The idea that Aryuveda uses herbs that can show promise under actual scientific testing is a merit for the scientific method, but says nothing about Aryuveda being sound.
The whole thing gets compounded by bits of fetishizing other cultures. If I tried to stand here and use the classic 5 elements from Western traditions that have existed for 5000 years, people would tell me I'm an idiot to say your body lacks fire element, or to talk about having too many ill humors.

False!!!
I have issues with inaccurate terms like Alternative Medicine. It is the jargon we are accustomed to, but the word implies that it should be used in place of allopathic medicine, which is not the case. The intention of different healing modalities is to to support the patient's wellness and fill in the gaps that allopathy could not fill. Sometimes what is needed to do that is a different perspective (i.e. model for assessing the patient) or different therapies that do not exist in the allopathic model. A good allopathic doctor knows their limitations and when to refer out, as does a competent aryuvedic doctor know when to refer someone back to their biomedical doc. Unfortunately we've grown accustomed to the term "Alternative" medicine being thrown around. Complimentary Medicine is a much more accurate term. A great doctor continues their education and learns about Complimentary healing modalities. Different therepeutic modalities compliment one another, creating a complex of relationships in which the whole is much more than the sum of its parts. In light of the unique strengths and weaknesses offered by different traditions, including allopathic and biomedical, all medical modalities are complimentary.
Another term that irks me because it is so inaccurate is "Modern Medicine" or "Modern Western Medicine" because the precise term is Allopathic Medicine or BioMedical Medicine, which are the healing traditions we are accustomed to today and are about 100 years old. Traditional Chinese Medicine, Tibetan Medicine, Accupuncture, and Aryuveda are also "Modern Medicine" because although their inception was 1000's of years ago, they are not static and the methods have evolved and are still evolving as practitioners hone in their skills in the modern day. "Modern Western Medicine" includes the allopathic and biomedical traditions, but other medical traditions have also originated in the West including: osteopathy, western herbalism, psychotherapy and chiropractic. They may not be the status quo, but accusations against their validity is based on conjecture.
The burden of proof IS also on those who adamantly claim that any alternative to allopathy does not work. So far people on this thread have attempted to disprove aryuvedic therapies by citing a TV segment, biased personal websites, and graphic design fails. I'm curious why the person (@cwilso37) who is able to pick apart any study posted is okay with a TV show being a reference to a claim?

You make some excellent points. I'll try to keep that in mind in future. Maybe using "complimentary" instead will help prevent this "OMG, you're going to follow 'woo'?! What's wrong with you, don't you know you could die if you do that?!?!?!" type of response.

Ok, maybe that's overstating some of the reactions. Maybe. But it seems like there's been some attitude that somehow people who may follow or want to learn more about different modalities are stupid or ill-informed and are going to harm themselves, because if they are interested in such things there's apparently the inference that they must also be against allopathic medicine.

SLLRunner

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

Anything that prescribes vomiting, unless you are ACTUALLY poisoned by something that you NEED to vomit out, is terrible. Now I am even more staunchly against this kind of lifestyle because it can involve very dangerous things.

Am I reading this correctly? The Ayurvedic diet involves practicing bulimia?

jgnatca

How about redecorating to Feng Shui for aesthetic rather than woo? I can't do that authentically either I believe because my home does not have a straight through exit. Demons can enter but moth-like, can find no exit.

tomatoey

So I am not into ayurveda at all, but I do love a quiz, for the (what, lols? Not really, it's not funny. I don't know why I like quizzes sometimes, but I know others do too.)

Anyway, for your entertainment, here is an Ayurvedic body type quiz by Nature's Formulary (tm)

http://www.naturesformulary.com/contents/dosha-test#results

I scored 17 Vata, 25 Pitta, 10 Kapha (with some double answers). I have no idea what this means - apparently there are subtypes? On this categorization, I'd say I'm like a Pitta-Kapha mix bodywise, and more Vata-Pitta mix for personality (ish).

tomatoey

Re alternative medicine - in the distant past, I tried acupuncture, wasn't so helpful. Electro-acupuncture for chronic pain, however, in combination with deep massage and physio, really helped.

WeddedBliss1992

i started reading this thread when it was new and i can't go back and read the 195 new messages...
i just wanted to say that i have checked-out a few books from the library and i have found alot of helpful information regarding diet/body/mind/spirit with ayurvedic "healing" and depression. it isn't just about weight loss, it is about so much more. i haven't even gotten to the part about the diet plan just yet, i am still reading the basics. i know alot of people have said some negative things about it (like, "i can't eat bananas or yogurt.") but there really is more to it than not eating this or eating that. you have to read about it as a whole and take it apart and see what it has to offer. i just wanted to thank the OP again for the information; i had never heard of this before and it has really opened alot of windows in my soul over the past couple of days.

WeddedBliss1992

tomatoey wrote: »

So I am not into ayurveda at all, but I do love a quiz, for the (what, lols? Not really, it's not funny. I don't know why I like quizzes sometimes, but I know others do too.)

Anyway, for your entertainment, here is an Ayurvedic body type quiz by Nature's Formulary (tm)

http://www.naturesformulary.com/contents/dosha-test#results

I scored 17 Vata, 25 Pitta, 10 Kapha (with some double answers). I have no idea what this means - apparently there are subtypes? On this categorization, I'd say I'm like a Pitta-Kapha mix bodywise, and more Vata-Pitta mix for personality (ish).

i kind of figured myself for a vata and took a quiz and was like 50+ on vata.
my husband is kapha all the way. i find it very intriguing! (PS i love quizzes, too!)

WeddedBliss1992

bbontheb wrote: »

Pancreatic cancer is going to kill you no matter what treatment you have. I firmly am anti-woo therapy and things like alkaline diet for cancer but seriously, pancreatic cancer is vicious...

unfortunately, you are very correct on this. pancreatic cancer is the most deadly cancer, and sadly has the very lowest rate of survival. i have known personally 3 people to die from it and it's horrific.