Ayurvedic nutrition for weight loss (and general sanity)
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WeddedBliss1992 wrote: »So I am not into ayurveda at all, but I do love a quiz, for the (what, lols? Not really, it's not funny. I don't know why I like quizzes sometimes, but I know others do too.)
Anyway, for your entertainment, here is an Ayurvedic body type quiz by Nature's Formulary (tm)
http://www.naturesformulary.com/contents/dosha-test#results
I scored 17 Vata, 25 Pitta, 10 Kapha (with some double answers). I have no idea what this means - apparently there are subtypes? On this categorization, I'd say I'm like a Pitta-Kapha mix bodywise, and more Vata-Pitta mix for personality (ish).
i kind of figured myself for a vata and took a quiz and was like 50+ on vata.
my husband is kapha all the way. i find it very intriguing!
(PS i love quizzes, too!)
i just read this description of the types. i could be any of them, depending on what I'm thinking about. that said, i'd benefit a lot from the advice given to balance an imbalanced vatta type (or pitta type, for that matter, they seem to be the same).0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.
Please post them. Burden of proof and all that.
Well, since this is an aryuvedic thread, let's look up elderberry, trifala, and ashwaganda.
Studies exist and they look promising, plus these herbs have been used for 1000s of years and are still widely used today. As I said earlier, science is catching up.
Elderberry Extract Study:
http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.long
Triphala Study:
So many studies done on this ancient aryuvedic herbal formula:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=triphala
Triphala Exhibits Anti-Arthritic Effect by Ameliorating Bone and Cartilage Degradation in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritic Rats
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08820139.2015.1017047
Ashwaganda:
So many studies have been done on this herb:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ashwaganda
Ashwaganda (withania somnifera)- a promising herb for neuroregenerative therapy for stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392656/
I'm just up to this bit in the thread and couldn't let it pass.
1st study (elderberry): you criticised @mamapeach910 for posting a study this old (15 yrs). Plus, the sample size of people is only 80. Nowhere near large enough.
2nd study (triphala): in rats? Seriously?
3rd study (ashwaganda): this is just a pre-clinical study (an article), not a clinical trial or actual test of the medicine.
I think I see what your problem is. You don't understand what constitutes scientific evidence. You've just given us words that don't amount to anything.
Apologies if you've already realised the error of your ways.
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miriamtob, please do not take my silence to mean acceptance. I in no way count a retelling of a 60 minutes article as science (or as moving evidence). I hope that is cleared up?
To your point about people unable to disprove.How do you disprove a theory that is unfalsifiable? When you say "dynamic" I hear ad hoc.
If these theories are so correct, why is there not testing done on them in any meaningful way? You have the burden of proof. Though given how useful these theories are {how they rise to the level of be complimentary}, why is it so hard?
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dashaclaire wrote: »My Mum used to brew a pitta tea in the summer (Virginia July=pantpantpantpant) that was supposed to be cooling, didn't taste like much but I was totally impressed by how much it cooled my whole body down... It was like A/C in a glass. She got into Ayruvedic stuff for a awhile. I think the is some value there, many herbs have some value. If it gets you doing yoga and eating healthy then wonderful. My personal opinion: Yoga is the fountain of youth.
Hey, that might be the thing to help my hot flashes!
Bro, if you have hot flashes, do not pass go, head straight to the doctor. :P As for me, forget the tea, I take RX hormone replacement therapy. Without it I would probably be the stabbiest sea hag lol.0 -
also... whose tongue is NOT damp? Unless you leave it hanging out in the breeze? IDK man I just don't buy it.0
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Be very careful with continuous drinking of lemon water. Dental professionals will tell you that the citric acid will wear away at your enamel, something which can become irreversible.
Bulimics actually have this problem because their stomach acid causes it, and Olympics athletes have such poor dental health (Google it) because of their pre-workout gels etc.
At the very least, a straw would help.0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »So I am not into ayurveda at all, but I do love a quiz, for the (what, lols? Not really, it's not funny. I don't know why I like quizzes sometimes, but I know others do too.)
Anyway, for your entertainment, here is an Ayurvedic body type quiz by Nature's Formulary (tm)
http://www.naturesformulary.com/contents/dosha-test#results
I scored 17 Vata, 25 Pitta, 10 Kapha (with some double answers). I have no idea what this means - apparently there are subtypes? On this categorization, I'd say I'm like a Pitta-Kapha mix bodywise, and more Vata-Pitta mix for personality (ish).
Those sound like Greek fraternities. Now you have to decide which one to pledge to. Animal House!
Lol! Yeah, I'm down 0 -
oh god yes animal house. I wanna be in the one with Bluto and all those guys... ride a motorcycle up the stairs.... drive a float that says EAT ME and f*** up the parade lol XD ... It's not like I didn't go to college lol but no one at that place really had the huevos to party that hard, and it's not easy to do alone. I swear to God if I ever get a house of my own I'm throwing a toga party for house warming.0
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oh god yes animal house. I wanna be in the one with Bluto and all those guys... ride a motorcycle up the stairs.... drive a float that says EAT ME and f*** up the parade lol XD ... It's not like I didn't go to college lol but no one at that place really had the huevos to party that hard, and it's not easy to do alone. I swear to God if I ever get a house of my own I'm throwing a toga party for house warming.
I just realized I'm 39 and that sounds really tiring now, lol0 -
Another term that irks me because it is so inaccurate is "Modern Medicine" or "Modern Western Medicine" because the precise term is Allopathic Medicine or BioMedical Medicine, which are the healing traditions we are accustomed to today and are about 100 years old.
No. Just no.
The term "Allopathic" medicine was coined by another woo-merchant (Samuel Hahnermann, the founder of homeopathy).The burden of proof IS also on those who adamantly claim that any alternative to allopathy does not work.
Nope. The burden of proof ALWAYS falls on the person making the positive claim, never the negative (see Russel's Teapot).
There have been several studies of these pseudoscientific modalities, and none have shown to be better than placebo. For example, sham acupuncture actually works better than real acupuncture in clinical trials.
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studies differ on this point, balance of evidence in this metaanalysis shows real > sham acupuncture for self reported lower back painFunkyTobias wrote: »Another term that irks me because it is so inaccurate is "Modern Medicine" or "Modern Western Medicine" because the precise term is Allopathic Medicine or BioMedical Medicine, which are the healing traditions we are accustomed to today and are about 100 years old.
No. Just no.
The term "Allopathic" medicine was coined by another woo-merchant (Samuel Hahnermann, the founder of homeopathy).The burden of proof IS also on those who adamantly claim that any alternative to allopathy does not work.
Nope. The burden of proof ALWAYS falls on the person making the positive claim, never the negative (see Russel's Teapot).
There have been several studies of these pseudoscientific modalities, and none have shown to be better than placebo. For example, sham acupuncture actually works better than real acupuncture in clinical trials.
http://journals.lww.com/spinejournal/Abstract/2013/11150/Effectiveness_of_Acupuncture_for_Nonspecific.20.aspx
electro-acupuncture, also, is a different thing fyi, especially for chronic pain. the theory is that in chronic pain, nerves are looping on nocioception (reading other sensations, like pressure, as pain). and, triggering nearby nerves, chemically. the idea is that shooting a current through there is like a tune-up. also thought to trigger endogenous pain relief mechanisms
http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/24322588
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149291813010151
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A. Complementary, not complimentary. Although I'd agree it is more about complimentary than complementary.False!!!
I have issues with inaccurate terms like Alternative Medicine. It is the jargon we are accustomed to, but the word implies that it should be used in place of allopathic medicine, which is not the case. The intention of different healing modalities is to to support the patient's wellness and fill in the gaps that allopathy could not fill. Sometimes what is needed to do that is a different perspective (i.e. model for assessing the patient) or different therapies that do not exist in the allopathic model. A good allopathic doctor knows their limitations and when to refer out, as does a competent aryuvedic doctor know when to refer someone back to their biomedical doc. Unfortunately we've grown accustomed to the term "Alternative" medicine being thrown around. Complimentary Medicine is a much more accurate term. A great doctor continues their education and learns about Complimentary healing modalities. Different therepeutic modalities compliment one another, creating a complex of relationships in which the whole is much more than the sum of its parts. In light of the unique strengths and weaknesses offered by different traditions, including allopathic and biomedical, all medical modalities are complimentary.
Another term that irks me because it is so inaccurate is "Modern Medicine" or "Modern Western Medicine" because the precise term is Allopathic Medicine or BioMedical Medicine, which are the healing traditions we are accustomed to today and are about 100 years old. Traditional Chinese Medicine, Tibetan Medicine, Accupuncture, and Aryuveda are also "Modern Medicine" because although their inception was 1000's of years ago, they are not static and the methods have evolved and are still evolving as practitioners hone in their skills in the modern day. "Modern Western Medicine" includes the allopathic and biomedical traditions, but other medical traditions have also originated in the West including: osteopathy, western herbalism, psychotherapy and chiropractic. They may not be the status quo, but accusations against their validity is based on conjecture.
The burden of proof IS also on those who adamantly claim that any alternative to allopathy does not work. So far people on this thread have attempted to disprove aryuvedic therapies by citing a TV segment, biased personal websites, and graphic design fails. I'm curious why the person (@cwilso37) who is able to pick apart any study posted is okay with a TV show being a reference to a claim?
B. If you don't like the term Western Medicine, don't use it. I don't like you sticking western in there because modern medicine, as in evidence based medicine, has no geography. Scientific methods work the same for every country and person.
C. Accusations against the validity of traditions isn't based on conjecture. All the "traditions" you've listed, to some extent or another, reject the scientific method, and pretty much start with a non-scientific based theory.
D. The burden of proof is on Aryuvedic to show that it is effective. Otherwise, the standing position for medicine is, first, do no harm.
E. When you cite a properly done study about an herb used in Aryuvedic, that isn't proving Aryuvedic, that is proving chemistry and biology. I'm not sure you understand how a theory and central dogma work in philosophies of knowledge. It isn't just that some things in Aryuvedic are shown to work, they have to also show that the system is effective at determining what works. Aryuvedic will say some herbs work because they increase the air element in a person. That's patently false. When an herb is actually studied in a clinical trial, that's not Aryuvedic anymore - that's evidence based medicine.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Also, please read theses link. People who sought out ayurvedic treatment that did not end well.
http://whatstheharm.net/ayurvedicmedicine.html
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5326a3.htm
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/chopra.html
The links following the David Flint summary: One leads to a quack watch blog which doesn't even reference David Flint's story. I would really like to see the results of how the so called law suit went down. The second link, which was supposed to actually explain the story in detail was a dead link. Too bad, because that one gave me pause.
There is inherent risk with whatever you put into your body. I don't condone mineral or metal treatments and herbal remedies are risky if you don't know the source. Capsules can easily be adulterated. Herbal medicine preparations prepared ethically from the whole plant, such as teas and tinctures are generally safer and it is easier to ascertain quality. The people who came down with lead poisoning; who knows if they were self medicating with cheap supplements or they actually had a shoddy practitioner who gave them bad medicine. I could probably cite more instances of people being harmed/killed by poor care from conventional medicine, but that is not what this thread is about.
Deepak Chopra is one of thousands of doctors who practice some aryuvedic principles. He is not a guru amongst aryuvedic doctors. He is an allopathic doctor. In my 16 hours of formal education in aryuveda, his name was never mentioned and his books were not even on the reading list.0 -
A. Some people do survive.Pancreatic cancer is going to kill you no matter what treatment you have. I firmly am anti-woo therapy and things like alkaline diet for cancer but seriously, pancreatic cancer is vicious...
B. Jobs didn't have general pancreatic cancer, he had a particular kind known as "neuroendocrine tumor or islet cell carcinoma" that actually has a much better survival rate.
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/pancreatic-cancer/news/20110825/faq-steve-jobs-pancreatic-cancer
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dashaclaire wrote: »My Mum used to brew a pitta tea in the summer (Virginia July=pantpantpantpant) that was supposed to be cooling, didn't taste like much but I was totally impressed by how much it cooled my whole body down... It was like A/C in a glass. She got into Ayruvedic stuff for a awhile. I think the is some value there, many herbs have some value. If it gets you doing yoga and eating healthy then wonderful. My personal opinion: Yoga is the fountain of youth.
Hey, that might be the thing to help my hot flashes!
Bro, if you have hot flashes, do not pass go, head straight to the doctor. :P As for me, forget the tea, I take RX hormone replacement therapy. Without it I would probably be the stabbiest sea hag lol.
I've been to the doctor and one of my choices was hormone replacement therapy. After discussions with my doctor and my own research, it's a no thank you. 0 -
It's still amazing to me that my original post caused so many responses. I am loving the dialog here, although some of the staunch opposition (particularly the vomiting ayurveda thread), I found hysterically funny. You can find extremes about anything, and that certainly doesn't fall into the ayurvedic principles I've ever heard of or would condone. It's very easy to look online and find extremes about anything.
So in response I (again) wanted to post this link to my former doctors in New York. I found it interesting that NO ONE but one person responded to my original post, since I had 1) an actual website of a reputable (ie major "big medicine" hospital sanctioned) doctor and 2) a lookin at all sides reasonable tone (I hope! I tried!) Though there have been alot of what I thought was a reasonable tone on here, so maybe that is not it.
http://healthandhealingny.org/
that's more about the practice (which takes insurance!)
this is more about research, a ton of links:
http://healthandhealingny.org/Institute/
This practice is part of Beth Israel hospital in NYC, one of the top hospitals in the States. As I mentioned in my previous post (that I can't now find since there are so many posts here - so cool!), I am interested for myself in a combination of western and eastern medicine. I've found that to work best for my body. I don't like getting prescribed antibiotics when I have infections, and these doctors - who were trained in both modalities were usually prescribing alternative, gentler methods first. They were also just good folks and good listeners, which I've found to be great no matter what you prescribe to.
So check it out if you dare, o doubters. There are studies here! Let the debunking fly!
Margaret0 -
margaretlb4 wrote: »It's still amazing to me that my original post caused so many responses. I am loving the dialog here, although some of the staunch opposition (particularly the vomiting ayurveda thread), I found hysterically funny. You can find extremes about anything, and that certainly doesn't fall into the ayurvedic principles I've ever heard of or would condone. It's very easy to look online and find extremes about anything.
So in response I (again) wanted to post this link to my former doctors in New York. I found it interesting that NO ONE but one person responded to my original post, since I had 1) an actual website of a reputable (ie major "big medicine" hospital sanctioned) doctor and 2) a lookin at all sides reasonable tone (I hope! I tried!) Though there have been alot of what I thought was a reasonable tone on here, so maybe that is not it.
http://healthandhealingny.org/
that's more about the practice (which takes insurance!)
this is more about research, a ton of links:
http://healthandhealingny.org/Institute/
This practice is part of Beth Israel hospital in NYC, one of the top hospitals in the States. As I mentioned in my previous post (that I can't now find since there are so many posts here - so cool!), I am interested for myself in a combination of western and eastern medicine. I've found that to work best for my body. I don't like getting prescribed antibiotics when I have infections, and these doctors - who were trained in both modalities were usually prescribing alternative, gentler methods first. They were also just good folks and good listeners, which I've found to be great no matter what you prescribe to.
So check it out if you dare, o doubters. There are studies here! Let the debunking fly!
Margaret
I shall try. I am no where near as good as many of the others in this thread. I am sure the better people will correct me where I am wrong but here goes nothing ^_^
Basics about the hospital, not nationally ranked as you said though US news does put them close (http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/ny/beth-israel-medical-center-6212655). There are also 77 pages of doctors. This would indicate that you might be relying on the hospitals name a little too strongly.
Your post makes it sound like you are more interested in the research though so lets look at that. They have posted completed research that was not published so I will assume all research they have undertaken is on the page you supplied (http://healthandhealingny.org/Institute/institute-research/completed-studies.aspx).
Integrative Approaches to Chronic Pain
This study looks at the use of different modalities and their ability to change self reported pain scores. These included " acupuncture/Chinese medicine (51.9%), manipulation therapy (17.3%), mind/body techniques (7.7%), integrative medicine consult (7.7%), exercise (7.7%), yoga (1.9%), and alternative medical systems therapy (5.8%). Overall, acupuncture/Chinese medicine, manipulation therapy, and mind/body therapy were the most commonly received modalities".
I assume I will be saying this often- This study is inept. Non random non controlled, discarded the data of people that did not finish the 24 week process. The members that finished the study (it could be argued) biased the results. This would create a selection effect that they did not account for. Also used a logistic regression for no good reason (and did not adequately explain why). Would not be published in a real journal.
ADDOPT (Acupuncture to Decrease Disparities of Pain Treatment)
Acupuncture and pain this time. Subjects tended to be older poorer and less educated. They want to know if acupuncture can work in urban areas. They find that of the 170 subjects that finished more than 5 weeks 73 % received 5 treatments or more.
Issues- 1/3 of the people stopped treatment. Mean treatment amount was 8 with a std of 5. That indicates wide variation (14 visits max). Most either did all or very few. Nothing about if the treatment is actually effective.
Kind of pointless
Acupuncture Integration in a Hospital Setting
A study which interviewed 8 people for less than 2 hours each.....
Just no.
On that I am done. Strike three.
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margaretlb4 wrote: »It's still amazing to me that my original post caused so many responses. I am loving the dialog here, although some of the staunch opposition (particularly the vomiting ayurveda thread), I found hysterically funny. You can find extremes about anything, and that certainly doesn't fall into the ayurvedic principles I've ever heard of or would condone. It's very easy to look online and find extremes about anything.
Since when is "correct" an extreme?
You seem to be giving the argument of "Woo vs Science" a false balance, and trying to settle for a middle ground.
The middle ground between wrong and correct is still not right.0
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