Keto lean bulk/recomp
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AlexEtheridge1996
Posts: 65 Member
Hello,
just finished a successful cut utilising a deficit, and gradually deceased carbs until it became keto.i lost a lot of body fat and really like how i feel in ketosis.
So, would anyone recommend a ketogenic lean bulk? I dont calorie or carb cycle as such but i eat the majority of my 30g of carbs post workout and reduce calories on days i dont lift.
My aim is 3000 calories on days i lift (just above maintence/very small surplus) @ 5C/70F/25P
i was wondering whether i should up my carbs at all, and whether I should introduce refeeds (only refeeded once while dieting as i wanted to become fat adpated).
what are peoples experiences? Should i up my carbs but stay in ketosis, or should i leave ketosis but stay lowish carb?
I was also wondering whether anyone has noticed an ability to eat more and gain less fat while on a keto bulk, or an inability to gain muscle?
Need some opinions, thanks!
just finished a successful cut utilising a deficit, and gradually deceased carbs until it became keto.i lost a lot of body fat and really like how i feel in ketosis.
So, would anyone recommend a ketogenic lean bulk? I dont calorie or carb cycle as such but i eat the majority of my 30g of carbs post workout and reduce calories on days i dont lift.
My aim is 3000 calories on days i lift (just above maintence/very small surplus) @ 5C/70F/25P
i was wondering whether i should up my carbs at all, and whether I should introduce refeeds (only refeeded once while dieting as i wanted to become fat adpated).
what are peoples experiences? Should i up my carbs but stay in ketosis, or should i leave ketosis but stay lowish carb?
I was also wondering whether anyone has noticed an ability to eat more and gain less fat while on a keto bulk, or an inability to gain muscle?
Need some opinions, thanks!
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Replies
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I wouldn't recommend it, for the same reason I wouldn't recommend pissing into the wind or ice skating uphill.0
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Care to explain, genuinely interestedChief_Rocka wrote: »I wouldn't recommend it, for the same reason I wouldn't recommend pissing into the wind or ice skating uphill.
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Googled it and found a BB.com forum post, not entirely sure if the information is valid because I have no clue on the topic... interested to see what people say
Carbohydrates serve several functions
1) They are anti-catabolic. When you ingest carbohydrates, you body won't break down protein for energy.
2) They increase insulin output. This is a good thing since insulin is the MOST ANABOLIC HORMONE in your body
No harm in sticking with your CKD if it is working for you, but in no way, shape or form is a CKD even close to ideal for mass building.
that lean bodymass you think you're seeing? It's called "reduced water weight". It's what you do when you want to look harder0 -
Hmm. Energy is not a problem once you're keto/fat adpated.asflatasapancake wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Care to explain, genuinely interestedChief_Rocka wrote: »I wouldn't recommend it, for the same reason I wouldn't recommend pissing into the wind or ice skating uphill.
Others may chime in who are more knowledgeable, but I would be concerned with a low carb diet on how to get energy for lifting and such. I know it's obviously possible, but it seems like an uphill battle. Things are hard enough. I wouldn't try it unless a doctor told me to go low carb or die. That's just me.
I was wondering whether a low carb ketogenic diet would affect my ability to build muscle, presuming training did not change vs high carb diet0 -
Most people on low carb already know that they do look leaner because they have less water/glycogen weight.IsaackGMOON wrote: »Googled it and found a BB.com forum post, not entirely sure if the information is valid because I have no clue on the topic... interested to see what people sayCarbohydrates serve several functions
1) They are anti-catabolic. When you ingest carbohydrates, you body won't break down protein for energy.
2) They increase insulin output. This is a good thing since insulin is the MOST ANABOLIC HORMONE in your body
No harm in sticking with your CKD if it is working for you, but in no way, shape or form is a CKD even close to ideal for mass building.
that lean bodymass you think you're seeing? It's called "reduced water weight". It's what you do when you want to look harder
Also with keto apparently having muscle sparing properties, its just insulin that could affect and inhibit to build muscle effectively on keto vs high carb (if it is as important as people are led to believe).
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Check out some of Darth Luigi's stuff (don't have any links unfortunately), he bulks on keto, but not sure if he carb-cycles. My suspicion is you will probably need to do some form of cyclical keto where you carb-load in your post workout meal to maximise muscle growth. That's just my suspicion though, and would do your homework. Think Dragonwolf on the low-carb group here and some others there shared some interesting muscle-growth stuff on the group there before, if you ask/ have a look
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Haven't ever researched the topic as it doesn't interest me.....but, protein does illicit an insulin response just like carbs do. I'm guessing it isn't the same volume of insulin being secreted into your system either. Being you're in a caloric surplus on a keto diet, my theory is you'd actually accumulate more fat than through a traditional bulk using all macros but predominately carb heavy.
Caloric surplus no matter what will make you gain fat, caloric surplus with a high fat diet will result in more fat accumulation vs. a medium/lower fat intake which accompanies a non-keto bulk.
It won't be significant but overtime I would think it would be more noticeable.
While eating fat doesn't make you fat, being in a caloric surplus does make you gain weight....muscle & fat. The more fat you ingest the more the body has to hold onto since you’re not burning off carbs as energy & storing them for glycogen replenishment.
Again, that is my understanding based on the limited amount I have read about a keto diet.
TL:DR - CARBS FTW when bulking!!!!!0 -
I imagine you could successfully body build on keto, I know there are some who do it, but I don't know if you could powerlift in keto since carbs are a much faster acting fuel and powerlifting routines are far more brutal on the body.0
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Haven't ever researched the topic as it doesn't interest me.....but, protein does illicit an insulin response just like carbs do. I'm guessing it isn't the same volume of insulin being secreted into your system either. Being you're in a caloric surplus on a keto diet, my theory is you'd actually accumulate more fat than through a traditional bulk using all macros but predominately carb heavy.
Caloric surplus no matter what will make you gain fat, caloric surplus with a high fat diet will result in more fat accumulation vs. a medium/lower fat intake which accompanies a non-keto bulk.
It won't be significant but overtime I would think it would be more noticeable.
While eating fat doesn't make you fat, being in a caloric surplus does make you gain weight....muscle & fat. The more fat you ingest the more the body has to hold onto since you’re not burning off carbs as energy & storing them for glycogen replenishment.
Again, that is my understanding based on the limited amount I have read about a keto diet.
TL:DR - CARBS FTW when bulking!!!!!Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I imagine you could successfully body build on keto, I know there are some who do it, but I don't know if you could powerlift in keto since carbs are a much faster acting fuel and powerlifting routines are far more brutal on the body.
both of these…
and I would be a wreck if I tried to bulk/lift on less then say 200 grams of carbs a day ...0 -
https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/
Check out this site for info concerning weight training on a keto diet.0 -
I think it was @ninerbuff that posted about this late last year and it had a pretty good discussion going. Looks like search function is down right now, but maybe he can help you find it.0
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Hmm. Energy is not a problem once you're keto/fat adpated.asflatasapancake wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
Care to explain, genuinely interestedChief_Rocka wrote: »I wouldn't recommend it, for the same reason I wouldn't recommend pissing into the wind or ice skating uphill.
Others may chime in who are more knowledgeable, but I would be concerned with a low carb diet on how to get energy for lifting and such. I know it's obviously possible, but it seems like an uphill battle. Things are hard enough. I wouldn't try it unless a doctor told me to go low carb or die. That's just me.
I was wondering whether a low carb ketogenic diet would affect my ability to build muscle, presuming training did not change vs high carb diet
You should join these two groups like I did they have nothing but Low Carb/Keto oriented people who have lots of knowledge and experience to help answer your questions
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto
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You might find this interesting:
http://fatburningman.com/chaz-branham-ketosis-carb-backloading-and-bodybuilding/0 -
This is a tough one! On a normal diet you want to consume enough grams of protein to match your body weight in pounds. However, on a keto diet, your body will turn protein into glucose which can kick you out of keto.
So really you can't up your protein without first upping your fat. This will bulk you up but make sure it's good fats and not saturated fats!!!!
Also, you guessed it, the majority of the weight you will gain will be fat but it's just like a carb bulk, you will gain fat and water to help muscle.
In theory, if you wanted to stay as lean as possible, you could just bring both fats and protein up slightly and gradually increase until you start to notice you're gaining fat and then just keep it at that level.
I'd probably do what most people are suggesting and cycle carbs. I find it best to do it every 2 weeks but everyone's different so see what works for you.
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RichSkerrett wrote: »This is a tough one! On a normal diet you want to consume enough grams of protein to match your body weight in pounds. However, on a keto diet, your body will turn protein into glucose which can kick you out of keto.
So really you can't up your protein without first upping your fat. This will bulk you up but make sure it's good fats and not saturated fats!!!!
Also, you guessed it, the majority of the weight you will gain will be fat but it's just like a carb bulk, you will gain fat and water to help muscle.
In theory, if you wanted to stay as lean as possible, you could just bring both fats and protein up slightly and gradually increase until you start to notice you're gaining fat and then just keep it at that level.
I'd probably do what most people are suggesting and cycle carbs. I find it best to do it every 2 weeks but everyone's different so see what works for you.
wut????0 -
Interesting that this topic came up this weekend on Steve Shaw's Q&A video. His advice was to do low carb, and higher protein, but not to worry about keto. Note that Steve recently started doing low carb as part of control for his Type II diabetes which was due in large part to his obesity while being on a huge bulk for powerlifting.0
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RichSkerrett wrote: »This is a tough one! On a normal diet you want to consume enough grams of protein to match your body weight in pounds. However, on a keto diet, your body will turn protein into glucose which can kick you out of keto.
So really you can't up your protein without first upping your fat. This will bulk you up but make sure it's good fats and not saturated fats!!!!
Also, you guessed it, the majority of the weight you will gain will be fat but it's just like a carb bulk, you will gain fat and water to help muscle.
In theory, if you wanted to stay as lean as possible, you could just bring both fats and protein up slightly and gradually increase until you start to notice you're gaining fat and then just keep it at that level.
I'd probably do what most people are suggesting and cycle carbs. I find it best to do it every 2 weeks but everyone's different so see what works for you.
wut????
Not sure what this means either as I had no problem doing a very clean bulk on carbs. If you are in a slight surplus and have adequite protien you should gain muscle nicely but it depends on a number of factors such on degree of caloric surplus, training intensity, your P factor, and how close you are to your genetic potential in muscle you are.0 -
I wouldn't dare try a bulk on 30 grams of carbs....guess I love the pump I get slamming carbs after the workout. You may be more successful on a carb cycling diet, but I'm #TeamDonuts for life.
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