New York Times - "Americans are finally eating less"
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Cherimoose wrote: »
It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks.
I'm curious to hear how that works out. I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?
I think if I was on food stamps, I would prioritize getting the most calories for money. I wouldn't waste my time or stamps on low-cal highly perishable fare like produce.
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Lourdesong wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »
It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?
I think if I was on food stamps, I would prioritize getting the most calories for money. I wouldn't waste my time or stamps on low-cal highly perishable fare like produce.
Not sure i'd get soda and cake, like the people i mentioned were buying. I'd get dried beans & brown rice, peanuts & whole chicken, and carrots, kale, & cabbage (keep for weeks). They're all easily affordable on a foodstamp budget.0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »
It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?
I think if I was on food stamps, I would prioritize getting the most calories for money. I wouldn't waste my time or stamps on low-cal highly perishable fare like produce.
Not sure i'd get soda and cake, like the people i mentioned were buying. I'd get dried beans & brown rice, peanuts & whole chicken, and carrots, kale, & cabbage (keep for weeks). They're all easily affordable on a foodstamp budget.
And then try cooking in between your FT job and the hustle and bustle of life for most people on food stamps (working parents). Many people from all socio-economic status' don't know, don't care, or don't have the time to cook. There isn't enough resources to help people with time management and nutrition.
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Or maybe their life sucks so much they feel entitled to a little happiness through cake and coke.0
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Cherimoose wrote: »
It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks.
I'm curious to hear how that works out. I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?
That would require there be such thing as healthy food.0 -
I must live in the only area where the farmers market is actually cheaper than the grocery store.
Not by much, but still cheaper.
in my neck of the woods, farmer's markets are basically a trendy Saturday/Sunday thing to do for yuppies with money and trustafarians. I go occasionally, but generally speaking I can get far better deals at my grocery store...and way better deals at Costco which is where most of my produce comes from. I eat a lot of produce; I could probably afford to shop at farmer's markets, but I choose to spend my money elsewhere.
I do live in a semi-rural area just outside of the city and there are a couple of actual farms near by and they do open up shop usually from August - the end of October and you can get well priced and good produce there...but it's limited to those handful of months and is cash only.0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »
It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?
I think if I was on food stamps, I would prioritize getting the most calories for money. I wouldn't waste my time or stamps on low-cal highly perishable fare like produce.
Not sure i'd get soda and cake, like the people i mentioned were buying. I'd get dried beans & brown rice, peanuts & whole chicken, and carrots, kale, & cabbage (keep for weeks). They're all easily affordable on a foodstamp budget.
Yes, I did an experiment for six months and found that by cooking from scratch and buying beans and grains in bulk, I could eat for $200 per month, including having meat and dairy from animals that were humanely raised and buying certain produce organic. Of course, I'd been cooking from scratch for most of my life, as did my mother when I was a kid, so I didn't have to learn any new techniques. (I didn't buy fast food, convenience food, soda or juice.)
@shell1005 do you work with your clients on getting the most food for their $?0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »
It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?
I think if I was on food stamps, I would prioritize getting the most calories for money. I wouldn't waste my time or stamps on low-cal highly perishable fare like produce.
Not sure i'd get soda and cake, like the people i mentioned were buying. I'd get dried beans & brown rice, peanuts & whole chicken, and carrots, kale, & cabbage (keep for weeks). They're all easily affordable on a foodstamp budget.
when I was in school getting my degree I qualified and was on food stamps as my income was less than $800/month. that's exactly what i did...i pretty much lived off of beans, rice, cabbage, chicken (or whatever meat was on sale), ground beef, canned tomato products and eggs. i could also usually get broccoli pretty cheap...and for fruit i stuck with mostly apples as they tended to be the cheapest.
i actually learned to could quite a variety given my limited ingredients.0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »
It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?
I think if I was on food stamps, I would prioritize getting the most calories for money. I wouldn't waste my time or stamps on low-cal highly perishable fare like produce.
Not sure i'd get soda and cake, like the people i mentioned were buying. I'd get dried beans & brown rice, peanuts & whole chicken, and carrots, kale, & cabbage (keep for weeks). They're all easily affordable on a foodstamp budget.
But they require cookware and a functional cooktop & refrigerator. Poor people move frequently(1), chasing first month free deals or fleeing eviction. Frequent movers often lack cookware. And the cheapest apt one can find may not have the greatest appliances. Agreed that DFW has grocery competition in affluent areas, but south Oak Cliff and Pleasant Grove are deserts (2).
(1)https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/mobility_of_the_population/cb10-67.html
"Generally, people with incomes below the poverty line were more likely to move than those just above the poverty line. Last year, 23.6 percent of people with incomes below 100 percent of the poverty line moved within the last year as compared with 17.5 percent of people with incomes between 100 and 149 percent of the poverty line." US average for the same period was 12.5%.
(2)http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/south-dallas/headlines/20110827-lack-of-grocery-stores-creates-unhealthy-food-desert-in-southern-dallas.ece0 -
Here in the Madison, Wisconsin area there is a particularly troublesome area that fits the classic definition of a "food desert". There have been multiple grocery stores opened and closed in this area in the last several years. They can't make a go of it. Sales are low and pilferage is high. Various folks have come up with ideas to help bring food into the area such as a mobile food pantry and even a mobile green market.
But there's no easy answer. You can't force grocery stores to open and stay in business. You can offer incentives and you can offer charity but those only go so far.0 -
"According to the federal government, a 'food desert' is an area where full-service grocery stores are more than a mile away."TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
I work in public health, so often work with zip code analysis of public health issues. With regard to Dallas, in 2011 the USDA labeled over half of South Dallas (zip codes 75215 and 75210) as a food desert, based in part on being an area of "sustained chronic disinvestment". Urban areas with chronic disinvestment are contending with high poverty rates, low employment rates, low employment opportunity, low per capita income, low investment, and inadequate public transportation structure. Those factors combine to create food deserts.
Here's a map with more detail if you are interested:
dallasnews.com/news/community-news/dallas/headlines/20110818-food-deserts-in-the-dallas-area.ece
In terms of others' comments, it is certainly easy to focus on judging the content of grocery carts without any real thought to what might be going on for that family at that particular time. All I know is that some of my own clients are nearly phobic about going to the grocery store because they're terrified of being confronted by some self-righteous shopper over the fact that they're buying their kid some cookies.
Those who are so concerned about what poor people are buying at the store might consider putting in some volunteer time in these communities to offer cooking classes or assist in developing community gardens.
Finally, for any of you with clients or friends who are struggling with how to eat well on a low income, look up recipes from the SNAP challenge last year - quite a few food bloggers took part, and developed some good recipes that can fit within very low budgets.
Then I live in a food desert. There are three grocery stores 1.25 -1.50 miles away, but nothing within a mile. That's a pretty restrictive definition, especially when we're talking about suburbs and not city centers.0 -
Then you live in a food desert. The difference is you probably have transportation that makes 1.25-1.50 simple. Deserts are easier to travel when you have a camel, but they don't stop being deserts.DeguelloTex wrote: »
"According to the federal government, a 'food desert' is an area where full-service grocery stores are more than a mile away."TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
I work in public health, so often work with zip code analysis of public health issues. With regard to Dallas, in 2011 the USDA labeled over half of South Dallas (zip codes 75215 and 75210) as a food desert, based in part on being an area of "sustained chronic disinvestment". Urban areas with chronic disinvestment are contending with high poverty rates, low employment rates, low employment opportunity, low per capita income, low investment, and inadequate public transportation structure. Those factors combine to create food deserts.
Here's a map with more detail if you are interested:
dallasnews.com/news/community-news/dallas/headlines/20110818-food-deserts-in-the-dallas-area.ece
In terms of others' comments, it is certainly easy to focus on judging the content of grocery carts without any real thought to what might be going on for that family at that particular time. All I know is that some of my own clients are nearly phobic about going to the grocery store because they're terrified of being confronted by some self-righteous shopper over the fact that they're buying their kid some cookies.
Those who are so concerned about what poor people are buying at the store might consider putting in some volunteer time in these communities to offer cooking classes or assist in developing community gardens.
Finally, for any of you with clients or friends who are struggling with how to eat well on a low income, look up recipes from the SNAP challenge last year - quite a few food bloggers took part, and developed some good recipes that can fit within very low budgets.
Then I live in a food desert. There are three grocery stores 1.25 -1.50 miles away, but nothing within a mile. That's a pretty restrictive definition, especially when we're talking about suburbs and not city centers.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
I work in public health, so often work with zip code analysis of public health issues. With regard to Dallas, in 2011 the USDA labeled over half of South Dallas (zip codes 75215 and 75210) as a food desert, based in part on being an area of "sustained chronic disinvestment". Urban areas with chronic disinvestment are contending with high poverty rates, low employment rates, low employment opportunity, low per capita income, low investment, and inadequate public transportation structure. Those factors combine to create food deserts.
Here's a map with more detail if you are interested:
dallasnews.com/news/community-news/dallas/headlines/20110818-food-deserts-in-the-dallas-area.ece
In terms of others' comments, it is certainly easy to focus on judging the content of grocery carts without any real thought to what might be going on for that family at that particular time. All I know is that some of my own clients are nearly phobic about going to the grocery store because they're terrified of being confronted by some self-righteous shopper over the fact that they're buying their kid some cookies.
Those who are so concerned about what poor people are buying at the store might consider putting in some volunteer time in these communities to offer cooking classes or assist in developing community gardens.
Finally, for any of you with clients or friends who are struggling with how to eat well on a low income, look up recipes from the SNAP challenge last year - quite a few food bloggers took part, and developed some good recipes that can fit within very low budgets.
Thanks @Caitwn, I was hoping you'd chime in about your job.
I like to volunteer. My parents have always been concerned with social justice. The eulogy at my father's funeral included a Cesar Chavez anecdote. One way my church (I'm a Unitarian Universalist) gets involved with social justice is by various events to feed people in need. So I make sandwiches for the homeless once per month, contribute to the monthly food drive collection, participate in Stop Hunger Now events, give at food drives at the supermarket, etc.
I'm an enthusiastic gardener and give excess seeds, plants, and food away on freecycle, some of which goes to a community garden, and some to single parents.
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My point is that a full-service grocery store within one mile is such a restrictive definition as to do not much more than define a problem into existence. Case in point: if I live in a food desert, the definition is meaningless: "Oh. So this is a food desert. What's all fuss about?"
Then you live in a food desert. The difference is you probably have transportation that makes 1.25-1.50 simple. Deserts are easier to travel when you have a camel, but they don't stop being deserts.DeguelloTex wrote: »
"According to the federal government, a 'food desert' is an area where full-service grocery stores are more than a mile away."TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
I work in public health, so often work with zip code analysis of public health issues. With regard to Dallas, in 2011 the USDA labeled over half of South Dallas (zip codes 75215 and 75210) as a food desert, based in part on being an area of "sustained chronic disinvestment". Urban areas with chronic disinvestment are contending with high poverty rates, low employment rates, low employment opportunity, low per capita income, low investment, and inadequate public transportation structure. Those factors combine to create food deserts.
Here's a map with more detail if you are interested:
dallasnews.com/news/community-news/dallas/headlines/20110818-food-deserts-in-the-dallas-area.ece
In terms of others' comments, it is certainly easy to focus on judging the content of grocery carts without any real thought to what might be going on for that family at that particular time. All I know is that some of my own clients are nearly phobic about going to the grocery store because they're terrified of being confronted by some self-righteous shopper over the fact that they're buying their kid some cookies.
Those who are so concerned about what poor people are buying at the store might consider putting in some volunteer time in these communities to offer cooking classes or assist in developing community gardens.
Finally, for any of you with clients or friends who are struggling with how to eat well on a low income, look up recipes from the SNAP challenge last year - quite a few food bloggers took part, and developed some good recipes that can fit within very low budgets.
Then I live in a food desert. There are three grocery stores 1.25 -1.50 miles away, but nothing within a mile. That's a pretty restrictive definition, especially when we're talking about suburbs and not city centers.
We walk to any of the three grocery stores at some point almost every week. Hell, if the federal government took into account how far my actual preferred grocery store is, I live in a food Tattoine.
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