"Toning" is a deception
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LolBroScience wrote: »Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Uh.... do you mean the trapezius muscle which everyone has?
They just tend to be more developed in individuals that actually lift weights...
Please don't talk about things that you don't understand.
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Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
Not big into guessing right are you? Don't assume.
I don't need to assume- you already laid it out for me.0 -
Quoting the dictionary to discuss words using in a technical fashion is not a good idea. The dictionary will also call you a computer if you can do 2+2=4 (defn: one who computes), but it would be a worthless definition for discussing if you can have Windows 8 installed into your brain.
wait, so I am not a computer?????????????????????0 -
Quoting the dictionary to discuss words using in a technical fashion is not a good idea. The dictionary will also call you a computer if you can do 2+2=4 (defn: one who computes), but it would be a worthless definition for discussing if you can have Windows 8 installed into your brain.
it would be useless if it did not apply, but it does.
and yes, I can be a compute-er should I be one who computes, or a reader-one who reads, or a photographer-one who does photography.0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
Not big into guessing right are you? Don't assume.
I don't need to assume- you already laid it out for me.
I went to a 3 day science festival this year to fill my nerdy boots - that big enough interest for you?0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
Not big into guessing right are you? Don't assume.
I don't need to assume- you already laid it out for me.
I went to a 3 day science festival this year to fill my nerdy boots - that big enough interest for you?
yeah- that totally solved the issue I had with what you said- proving how nerdy you are. Yep. Box checked.
<sighsarcasmbecauseyoucompletelymissedthepointwhybother>0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
Not big into guessing right are you? Don't assume.
I don't need to assume- you already laid it out for me.
I went to a 3 day science festival this year to fill my nerdy boots - that big enough interest for you?
yeah- that totally solved the issue I had with what you said- proving how nerdy you are. Yep. Box checked.
<sighsarcasmbecauseyoucompletelymissedthepointwhybother>
Laid out what? - that I'm not big into science? You need to clarify rather than just giving me the attitude.0 -
I really don't get the big deal around using the word. When I hear someone use the word, I generally know what they want to achieve. Do I care more about their word choice than I do their end goal?
No.
Do I care if someone calls something purple vs aubergine vs violet? no.
I get where you're going and why you are doing it, but I think we do people (both ourselves and others) a disservice to get all stuck on word selection when we have a good idea as to what the person speaking meant.
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MireyGal76 wrote: »I really don't get the big deal around using the word. When I hear someone use the word, I generally know what they want to achieve. Do I care more about their word choice than I do their end goal?
No.
Do I care if someone calls something purple vs aubergine vs violet? no.
I get where you're going and why you are doing it, but I think we do people (both ourselves and others) a disservice to get all stuck on word selection when we have a good idea as to what the person speaking meant.
Well said.
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Correct use of terminology may appear to be semantics to those outside of a discipline, but critical to the advancement within a specific discipline. Incorrect use leads to misunderstanding, misinformation, disinformation, fire and brimstone, and general bad things.
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And toning to the outside discipline means low weight high reps which will accomplish=more cardio.0
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I just googled "toning stick" and now I'm sad.
Great OP though. I can see it bothering you more because you work in the fitness industry.
I do think it's a problem when someone posts a thread asking to get toned, and several people will suggest eating at a deficit and lifting weight (perfectly reasonable response considering what they want). And then the poster will whine "no, I said TONED not all muscly and ugly (or whatever derogatory bulky whine is applicable)". I think that's where there is a huge disconnect due to how the word tone has been used.0 -
I don't know... I look at the people coming in and using the word "toned", especially those who are whining about being corrected, as if they're children. They will need to learn a lot and grow a lot, and I teach where I can. I'm still learning too!
A person may start out as wanting to be toned... but if they're serious about becoming better... they will seek to understand, and will shift and grow. Their vocabulary will mature, their goals will mature.
Unless, of course, I slap them in the face and tell them they're idiots... in which case they may persevere in spite of my response, or they may just throw a tantrum and give up.
When I started out... I am pretty sure I tossed the "toned" word around.
Now I toss around words like:
heavy lifting
ripped
muscular
recomposition
bulk / cut
CICO (<-not a word)
bulkeh (in the great sense)
maintenance
It certainly has been a fun, humbling, and interesting learning experience, and I am thankful for the people here who have helped me make my way.0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
Not big into guessing right are you? Don't assume.
I don't need to assume- you already laid it out for me.
I went to a 3 day science festival this year to fill my nerdy boots - that big enough interest for you?
yeah- that totally solved the issue I had with what you said- proving how nerdy you are. Yep. Box checked.
<sighsarcasmbecauseyoucompletelymissedthepointwhybother>
:laugh:0 -
I just googled "toning stick" and now I'm sad.
Great OP though. I can see it bothering you more because you work in the fitness industry.
I do think it's a problem when someone posts a thread asking to get toned, and several people will suggest eating at a deficit and lifting weight (perfectly reasonable response considering what they want). And then the poster will whine "no, I said TONED not all muscly and ugly (or whatever derogatory bulky whine is applicable)". I think that's where there is a huge disconnect due to how the word tone has been used.
Or sometimes you just get a plain I want to tone post and then several posters advise with the usual one liner. "There is no such thing as toning". Then the whole post has the word tone in inverted commas. This post is clearer and should be on the must read list0 -
It's not necessarily the word itself that is a problem. Yes language evolves. The problem is that people (typically women) think they need to do something special to get the "toned" look. They have been brainwashed to thinking that in order to become "toned" you need to do lots of reps with low weight.
It's sad really. It boggles my mind that some women think that lifting a 25 pound dumbbell will make them look like a man, but don't think twice about holding a child in one arm and a bag of groceries in the other.2 -
No point is "tone" is used in fitness as an adjective. Descriptive in workouts or a look. No such thing as "toning" exercises, or looking "tone". And how is it counter productive? You believe it's okay to use a word that was basically mocking females intelligence because the fitness industry felt it would be a much easier way to sell an idea? If you're okay with that, then I'll oppose your position.
From Cambridge Dictionary:
Cambridgepiperdown44 wrote: »Somewhere after 1993 it must have been added to the dictionary because my Merriam Webster from 1993 doesn't have that listed.
What they do have is tonus - Greek for tension, act of stretching.
tone noun (TIGHTNESS)
› the healthy tightness of the body, especially the muscles:
Merriam Webster
Definition of TONUS
: tone 9a; especially : a state of partial contraction characteristic of normal muscle
tonenoun us /toʊn/
tone noun (VOICE EXPRESSION)
› a quality in the voice, esp. one that expresses the speaker’s feelings, often toward the person being addressed: His tone was apologetic.
tone noun (MOOD)
› the mood or general feeling of something: The tone of his remarks was confident and reassuring.› literature The tone of a piece of writing expresses the writer's attitude toward the subject or the reader: The angry tone of this essay reveals her feelings about the war.
tone noun (SOUND)
› [usually sing] a musical, mechanical, or voice sound on one note: If you wish to leave a message, please wait until after the tone.
tone noun (MUSICAL QUALITY)
› music the quality of sound of a musical instrument or singing voice› music A tone is also a step .
tone noun (FIRM QUALITY)
› (esp. of muscles) the quality of being healthy and firm: Swimming helps to develop good muscle tone.
tone noun (COLOR)
› art [C] a feature of color related to its brightness or the amount of light it reflects
Notice it doesn't say "Swimming helps to develop good "tone" or "toning".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
so you can post definitions too. I also pulled mine from the dictionary. point is that tone and thereby toning is in the dictionary
conotatively, getting toned just means looking fitter and having a little muscle definition. jumping on people for using the word, telling them it isn't a thing, is counterproductive. and frankly, rather mean and unnecessary.
you also only posted the nouns, to tone is a verb
And really there is no definition on "tone". Some think that Gwyneth Paltrow is tone. Or even Keira Knightly.
Is it a big deal? I'm betting probably not to most. But I still believe it's important to not to have to use deception. There's nothing wrong with people learning the actual truth behind it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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From my experience if an author/"fitness expert" uses any form of "tone" to describe exercise or the result of exercise, the information from that author is pretty much worthless.0
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MireyGal76 wrote: »I really don't get the big deal around using the word. When I hear someone use the word, I generally know what they want to achieve. Do I care more about their word choice than I do their end goal?
No.
Do I care if someone calls something purple vs aubergine vs violet? no.
I get where you're going and why you are doing it, but I think we do people (both ourselves and others) a disservice to get all stuck on word selection when we have a good idea as to what the person speaking meant.
Again, well said.0 -
We may know what they are trying to convey, but when you give the answer to help them achieve what they are vying for, the response may be opposing because the person lacks understanding of what it really means.MireyGal76 wrote: »I really don't get the big deal around using the word. When I hear someone use the word, I generally know what they want to achieve. Do I care more about their word choice than I do their end goal?
No.
Do I care if someone calls something purple vs aubergine vs violet? no.
I get where you're going and why you are doing it, but I think we do people (both ourselves and others) a disservice to get all stuck on word selection when we have a good idea as to what the person speaking meant.
Daily I speak to new/regular members. Lot of females who just do cardio and aren't getting the results they want, want info on how to "tone". First thing I'll ask them is if they eating in deficit. Second if they've ever tried lifting heavy weights. You can guess what the response is.................."Oh no, I'm not trying to get all bulky looking." I'll let them know that it will "tone" them up more and there's still apprehension, yet all the lean looking clients I have lift heavy weights. Don't get me wrong, I'll also do high rep endurance/conditioning training with many of them too, but basically lifting moderately heavy weights in general to people who just came for Zumba and cardio, doesn't come across to them as "toning".
Will we ever get rid of the terminology? Probably not. People still think to this day one can spot reduce with exercise, and we'll correct them on that. I think it's okay to tell them this too.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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