I called oatmeal cookies unhealthy and I got blasted - why?
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WinoGelato wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
But that's where this is getting confused. No one has ever said to eat nothing but cookies, or broccoli or celery. It's about fitting it in with what else you eat, therefore the food, in a vacuum, is not unhealthy, but the way you fit it into your daily and weekly goals may be.
My point wasn't that someone could be eating only cookies or only broccoli. My point is that one is high in calories even if you eat a small amount and might make you feel hungry later vs one that is low in calories you can eat more and it will make you feel full. If I add a cookie to my food diary I will end up feeling hungry later but those calories will be already used up and I won't be able to eat something else. You can eat a big portion of fruit and it will only be like 60 calories and make you full and healthy, meanwhile your small cookie is 100^ calories. How would you teach this to a child who hasn't developed self control yet .. If a child thinks both foods are healthy? You would have to differentiate between the 2 somehow and explain one is better than the other.
Yes, as I suggested in response to your other post you seem to be confusing calorie dense and unhealthy.
How I would explain it to anyone (and children aren't the audience on MFP, but I was able to grasp this as a child so I do not think it's that difficult) is that some foods are more calorie dense than others and some are more nutrient dense than others and that to have an overall healthy diet we need to consider a few things:
(1) that it have appropriate calories for one's goals (neither too high NOR too low);
(2) that it be balanced -- in other words, that it have enough in the various micro and macronutrients for your goals.
Whether a particular food adds to the overall health of the diet depends on what one needs given the above considerations.
Broccoli will likely further one's goals (if one is the average person in the US) more often than an oatmeal cookie, but it really depends. (The oatmeal cookie could have more fiber, it will have more fat, relevant if the person is doing some juicing thing, it obviously has more calories which are not inherently bad, etc.).
More significantly, an absolutely okay goal is to have a diet that is enjoyable and satisfying and if someone finds that an oatmeal cookie furthers this goal and is not inconsistent with any others, I don't see how it's unhealthy. It's not identical to broccoli (and no one has ever said it is) and IMO it's neither healthy nor unhealthy in itself. It's neutral.
And like others I do regularly eat some food more for its taste than its micronutrient content (after getting plenty of food which I enjoy for both). I don't see anything wrong with this. It still contributes calories I need for my day (at the moment my deficit is as high as I think is appropriate at my current weight), and my diet is overall very healthy. Also, I am not hungry -- I find the claim that eating one cookie will make you hungry for the day awfully odd, if one is otherwise eating sensibly and at a reasonable calorie level.
I'm not against cookies or desserts, I did not ban these out of my life. I am ok with eating 1 or 2 or whatever I want as long as it fits in with my goal. My point is there is a difference between these foods and it should be ok to acknowledge it. You must have been a smart 5 year old to understand that whole explanation. You would have to somehow explain to a child one is more healthier than the other and you can't have too much of the cookie because it has a lot of sugar and you will be too full to eat other healthy food. Which means there is a difference between the 2 and in order to form self
Control when you get older you need to be able to differentiate between these at any age.
There's a difference between an avocado and a piece of celery as well. Should the avocado be deemed unhealthy because it's calorie dense?
No but I am pretty sure an avocado doesn't make you crave another one immediately after finishing it. I am sure everyone has experienced cravings for another cookie/dessert and has to practice self control in order to not act on it.
And again, you are going back to your personal physiology which doesn't reflect on the food, it reflects on you. I would absolutely crave more avocado after one because they are delicious and probably my favorite veggie. An oatmeal cookie, I could easily eat one and put them down...
And so what if a food makes you have to practice self control anyway? We are adults...
Avocado technically a fruit. So therefore it must be evil because fruit is evil, I think? Because fruit has sugar? But does an avocado? I can't remember anymore. Can we get back to cookie recipes?
Ah, shoot. I was going to come back and say I have a whole avocado with my crackers instead of cheese (like my husband and son) so does that make my choice better.
But, evil fruit. Boo.
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tincanonastring wrote: »Excuse me...this is a thread about oatmeal...
No, it was about oatmeal cookies, and you need milk with oatmeal cookies, well, at least in name...
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Reading through this thread definitely created a pretty fierce craving for oats/oatmeal cookies so I made some oatmeal and added a bit of Nutella and peanut butter and some apple butter. 300 calories and so delish.
So, got that craving out of the way.
Now as far as avocados, I love them and certainly do crave more after eating 1/2 or a whole avocado. And I've brought this up before when replying to posts that declare fat is so satiating for everyone is that it's not satiating for me, and that foods like avocados and nuts screw up my day royally if I don't make extra effort to keep my fat macro in check on days I consume very high fat foods like these. I will feel like I'm starving otherwise.0 -
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tincanonastring wrote: »
If you like that try Evil Genius' Purple Monkey Dishwasher. It slighly edged the duClaw for me.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Excuse me...this is a thread about oatmeal...
that one is yum too but doesn't compare to the chocolate stout in my opinion.
Does anyone else on here find it funny that a man who's handle is "Hornsby" is posting pics of an oatmeal beer? Where's your hard cider, dude?
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MFP is a very helpful tool. It provides a resource for tracking what you eat and provides information on the nutrient value. What you put into is up to you. My philosophy is that I eat what I want and figure it into my plan. If I choose to eat a 500 calorie cookie, oatmeal (my favorite btw) or chocolate chip, that's 500 fewer calories I figure I have to eat throughout the rest of the day. One cookie will not make or break a diet. If it is killing you to eat it, go ahead, that's what I do. It would be better to have one little cookie and continue on from there than to forego the cookie and end up binge eating from feeling deprived. However, if you do this too often expect to make little progress on your weight loss goals. Another consideration is health issues. If you have high cholesterol, you might want to limit saturated fat intake. If you have hypertension, limit salt, etc. MFP helps you track these things. But lets face facts, refined white sugar is just bad for you, period, because it only provides empty calories and no nutritional value. What it all really comes down to is that it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks about oatmeal cookies or ice cream; you can do or eat whatever you want, but it will reflect on the results you get.0
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enterdanger wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Excuse me...this is a thread about oatmeal...
that one is yum too but doesn't compare to the chocolate stout in my opinion.
Does anyone else on here find it funny that a man who's handle is "Hornsby" is posting pics of an oatmeal beer? Where's your hard cider, dude?
lol, but...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hornsro01.shtml
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Lourdesong wrote: »Reading through this thread definitely created a pretty fierce craving for oats/oatmeal cookies so I made some oatmeal and added a bit of Nutella and peanut butter and some apple butter. 300 calories and so delish.
So, got that craving out of the way.
Now as far as avocados, I love them and certainly do crave more after eating 1/2 or a whole avocado. And I've brought this up before when replying to posts that declare fat is so satiating for everyone is that it's not satiating for me, and that foods like avocados and nuts screw up my day royally if I don't make extra effort to keep my fat macro in check on days I consume very high fat foods like these. I will feel like I'm starving otherwise.
Same here. I don't know why some insist that the same things are satiating for everyone.0 -
Timelordlady85 wrote: »Anything can be unhealthy without moderation.
Except it's not a huge deal if you eat 5 servings of broccoli. It's a huge deal with cookies.
NOT reading the whole thread though, it's not going to change my opinion...0 -
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Not surprising, for someone who thinks zucchini has better micros than Lucky Charms.Timelordlady85 wrote: »Anything can be unhealthy without moderation.
Except it's not a huge deal if you eat 5 servings of broccoli. It's a huge deal with cookies.
NOT reading the whole thread though, it's not going to change my opinion...
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Timelordlady85 wrote: »Anything can be unhealthy without moderation.
Except it's not a huge deal if you eat 5 servings of broccoli. It's a huge deal with cookies.
NOT reading the whole thread though, it's not going to change my opinion...
No, I would go as far as saying apart from a tummy ache, you could eat two whole bags of cookies in one sitting without any long term negative health consequences whatsoever, provided you don't keep doing that.0 -
Timelordlady85 wrote: »Anything can be unhealthy without moderation.
Except it's not a huge deal if you eat 5 servings of broccoli. It's a huge deal with cookies.
NOT reading the whole thread though, it's not going to change my opinion...
I think I rather have the cookies then 5 servings of broccoli, otherwise I will spending most of my time in and out the bathroom.0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »raelynnsmama52512 wrote: »
Chocolate stouts are AMAZING. Look for a Total Wine and more near you and don't be afraid to ask for a recommendation. If I may, also check them for vanilla porters. Either makes a great dessert.
Beer float. Just sayin...
Had one over the weekend...just sayin'...
A local treasure--4 peaks Oatmeal Stout shake made with vanilla ice cream and chocolate syrup.
Now I gotta find a place around here that makes that kind of stuff...0 -
Timelordlady85 wrote: »Anything can be unhealthy without moderation.
Except it's not a huge deal if you eat 5 servings of broccoli. It's a huge deal with cookies.
NOT reading the whole thread though, it's not going to change my opinion...
I think I rather have the cookies then 5 servings of broccoli, otherwise I will spending most of my time in and out the bathroom.
Don't you spend all your time in and out of the bathroom now?0 -
Timelordlady85 wrote: »Anything can be unhealthy without moderation.
Except it's not a huge deal if you eat 5 servings of broccoli. It's a huge deal with cookies.
NOT reading the whole thread though, it's not going to change my opinion...
Well that's certainly a rational position to take. Can I ask what kind of evidence would change your mind?0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
But that's where this is getting confused. No one has ever said to eat nothing but cookies, or broccoli or celery. It's about fitting it in with what else you eat, therefore the food, in a vacuum, is not unhealthy, but the way you fit it into your daily and weekly goals may be.
My point wasn't that someone could be eating only cookies or only broccoli. My point is that one is high in calories even if you eat a small amount and might make you feel hungry later vs one that is low in calories you can eat more and it will make you feel full. If I add a cookie to my food diary I will end up feeling hungry later but those calories will be already used up and I won't be able to eat something else. You can eat a big portion of fruit and it will only be like 60 calories and make you full and healthy, meanwhile your small cookie is 100^ calories. How would you teach this to a child who hasn't developed self control yet .. If a child thinks both foods are healthy? You would have to differentiate between the 2 somehow and explain one is better than the other.
Yes, as I suggested in response to your other post you seem to be confusing calorie dense and unhealthy.
How I would explain it to anyone (and children aren't the audience on MFP, but I was able to grasp this as a child so I do not think it's that difficult) is that some foods are more calorie dense than others and some are more nutrient dense than others and that to have an overall healthy diet we need to consider a few things:
(1) that it have appropriate calories for one's goals (neither too high NOR too low);
(2) that it be balanced -- in other words, that it have enough in the various micro and macronutrients for your goals.
Whether a particular food adds to the overall health of the diet depends on what one needs given the above considerations.
Broccoli will likely further one's goals (if one is the average person in the US) more often than an oatmeal cookie, but it really depends. (The oatmeal cookie could have more fiber, it will have more fat, relevant if the person is doing some juicing thing, it obviously has more calories which are not inherently bad, etc.).
More significantly, an absolutely okay goal is to have a diet that is enjoyable and satisfying and if someone finds that an oatmeal cookie furthers this goal and is not inconsistent with any others, I don't see how it's unhealthy. It's not identical to broccoli (and no one has ever said it is) and IMO it's neither healthy nor unhealthy in itself. It's neutral.
And like others I do regularly eat some food more for its taste than its micronutrient content (after getting plenty of food which I enjoy for both). I don't see anything wrong with this. It still contributes calories I need for my day (at the moment my deficit is as high as I think is appropriate at my current weight), and my diet is overall very healthy. Also, I am not hungry -- I find the claim that eating one cookie will make you hungry for the day awfully odd, if one is otherwise eating sensibly and at a reasonable calorie level.
I'm not against cookies or desserts, I did not ban these out of my life. I am ok with eating 1 or 2 or whatever I want as long as it fits in with my goal. My point is there is a difference between these foods and it should be ok to acknowledge it. You must have been a smart 5 year old to understand that whole explanation. You would have to somehow explain to a child one is more healthier than the other and you can't have too much of the cookie because it has a lot of sugar and you will be too full to eat other healthy food. Which means there is a difference between the 2 and in order to form self
Control when you get older you need to be able to differentiate between these at any age.
There's a difference between an avocado and a piece of celery as well. Should the avocado be deemed unhealthy because it's calorie dense?
No but I am pretty sure an avocado doesn't make you crave another one immediately after finishing it. I am sure everyone has experienced cravings for another cookie/dessert and has to practice self control in order to not act on it.
And again, you are going back to your personal physiology which doesn't reflect on the food, it reflects on you. I would absolutely crave more avocado after one because they are delicious and probably my favorite veggie. An oatmeal cookie, I could easily eat one and put them down...
And so what if a food makes you have to practice self control anyway? We are adults...
Avocado technically a fruit. So therefore it must be evil because fruit is evil, I think? Because fruit has sugar? But does an avocado? I can't remember anymore. Can we get back to cookie recipes?
Ah, shoot. I was going to come back and say I have a whole avocado with my crackers instead of cheese (like my husband and son) so does that make my choice better.
But, evil fruit. Boo.
I thought the fruit was only evil if you put whipped cream on it? :-P0 -
enterdanger wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »
If you like that try Evil Genius' Purple Monkey Dishwasher. It slighly edged the duClaw for me.
You're the second person to recommend PMD to me in the last 4 days. Must try now, despite the fact that I don't really like PB in my stout.0 -
512 Pecan porter shake:
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tincanonastring wrote: »
Yup. This shake is from the Alamo Drafthouse, which also originates in Austin.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »
Yup. This shake is from the Alamo Drafthouse, which also originates in Austin.
I love the Alamo! Hahaha... I was there in April and we caught a late screening of Half Baked on the 20th...
Austin is my 3rd favorite city in the country!0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »
Yup. This shake is from the Alamo Drafthouse, which also originates in Austin.
I love the Alamo! Hahaha... I was there in April and we caught a late screening of Half Baked on the 20th...
Austin is my 3rd favorite city in the country!
Following...????
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WinoGelato wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »
Yup. This shake is from the Alamo Drafthouse, which also originates in Austin.
I love the Alamo! Hahaha... I was there in April and we caught a late screening of Half Baked on the 20th...
Austin is my 3rd favorite city in the country!
Following...????
Portland, OR and Philly.0 -
I've been lurking in this thread since it started because... hilarious. After seeing that Alamo Drafthouse shake though, I just have to say, that looks amazing. I now know what I'm going to use my free food voucher for when I'm there next.0
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I've been lurking in this thread since it started because... hilarious. After seeing that Alamo Drafthouse shake though, I just have to say, that looks amazing. I now know what I'm going to use my free food voucher for when I'm there next.
I'd prefer we didn't label threads as "hilarious" and "serious." Threads can be comically-dense or drama-dense. Adding these arbitrary labels just derails people who are trying to fix their broken sense of humor.0
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