Keto--what are your thoughts?
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Yeah, the "not hungry" thing is quite a bonus. I did a protein shake at 1p and pre-logged lamb for dinner, but I'm still not hungry. Most days, I'm eating because not eating at all isn't an option. It's food. It's just that thing I have to do because science and doctors and stuff. And things.
LOL
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tigersword wrote: »
False. Calorie deficit empties adipocytes, regardless of macro ratio. The only reason people seem to think keto diets burn more fat is because there's a mental disconnect where they don't pay attention to the fact that they are consuming such a high level of fat, which the body digests before turning to fat stores. With a 2000 calorie TDEE (for example) eating 1500 calories worth of carbs or eating 1500 calories worth of fat would both result in exactly 500 calories of stored fat burned to make up the deficit. Honestly, the carbs might even burn a bit more, as TEF for carbs is between 10 and 15%, while TEF for fat is only 2-3%.This diet sounds soooooooo hard and not quick and convenient
If you mean "quick to empty adipocytes", it is the quicker diet I think. It is the only dietary approach that turns your body into a fat-burning machine (most part of enrgy will come from fat), forming ketones from fatty acids and using them instead of glucose (there remains cells that still need glucose, but all the muscolar works and up to 70% of brain energy can come from ketones).
Nope. Not if you're insulin resistant to any degree.
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Interesting, thanks to those who answered my question.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »How do people here know they are in ketosis? Can you feel the difference? Or testing for the presence of ketones? (Again, just curious.)
Most people test and some people can feel it. I can feel it when I'm out. I'm actually jittery, sweating, headache, some physical pain. It feels like the flu. The tests just confirm what my body tells me already. When I'm in, I feel great and have lots of energy. I don't feel that way when I'm out.
Sounds like withdrawal symptoms from your ketone addiction
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This diet sounds soooooooo hard and not quick and convenient
I know how you feel. I felt that way too. After being on a very LCHF way of eating for about about year I have found it is easy, quick and convenient.
Again I tried this for pain management and in the first 30 days it worked very well and continues to do so. Of course getting instant gratification I would have kept doing if it had been hard, not quick or convenient.
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I can't eat wheat so it wasn't a big loss. To be honest, the idea of going low carb was much more daunting than actually doing it. I had a week or so where I felt a bit tired, and had a headache for a few days, but now I don't miss carbs at all so no willpower is really needed. It was much harder when I was still eating more carbs (starches and sugars).
Hey thanks again. I am now trying low carb and quite surprised at how energetic and lighter I feel and how full I can be on chicken salad for lunch, protein and fats (avocado) really does satisfy the hunger and before, when I ate too many carbs, mainly in the form of white bread and cakes, my appetite was insatiable. Couldnt stop eating and hence put on the weight. Ya never know, one day I might feel brave enough to try keto for a while
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GaleHawkins wrote:Again I tried this for pain management and in the first 30 days it worked very well and continues to do so. Of course getting instant gratification I would have kept doing if it had been hard, not quick or convenient.
May I ask is that arthritic pain you speak of? and you are not getting that pain anymore since starting keto? That is amazing.
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tincanonastring wrote: »There is also this group. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto
Ketosis and low carb are two different diet protocols that involve the lowering of carbs (varied degrees) to create your caloric deficit (which is the reason for weight loss). You should be able to peruse through those groups to answer whatever questions you might have if you feel you need to choose this route of caloric deficit creation.
Good call. I've seen a number of the members of the first group posting about keto. Yours is most likely the better resource.
Yep, but evidently don't type as fast at @JodehFoster
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I can't eat wheat so it wasn't a big loss. To be honest, the idea of going low carb was much more daunting than actually doing it. I had a week or so where I felt a bit tired, and had a headache for a few days, but now I don't miss carbs at all so no willpower is really needed. It was much harder when I was still eating more carbs (starches and sugars).
Hey thanks again. I am now trying low carb and quite surprised at how energetic and lighter I feel and how full I can be on chicken salad for lunch, protein and fats (avocado) really does satisfy the hunger and before, when I ate too many carbs, mainly in the form of white bread and cakes, my appetite was insatiable. Couldnt stop eating and hence put on the weight. Ya never know, one day I might feel brave enough to try keto for a while
In my experience low carb - low fat is setting yourself up for failure.
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May I ask is that arthritic pain you speak of? and you are not getting that pain anymore since starting keto? That is amazing.
I too follow a LCHF lifestyle. One thing I was not prepared for but which pleasantly surprised me was the reduction in pain in connection with knee pain and the pain I experience from carpal tunnel syndrome. After doing low carb for about a year now, my knee pain is all but gone although I do know that at least part of that pain was related to my weight. Every once in awhile I still get a twinge from my knees. before I started the low carb diet on a daily basis the pain from my carpal tunnel rated about an 8 on a scale of 1 - 10. now on a daily basis the pain I experience from carpal tunnel ranges anywhere from a 0.5 to maybe a 2 on a bad day. About a month and a half into low carb when I begin noticing the reduction in various aches and pains I spoke with my doctor because I thought it was all in my head and that I was imagining the pain relief, but she confirmed for me that one of the benefits of eating a low carb low sugar diet is a reduction in pain / inflammation in the body. She went on to further tell me that it has been known for a long time in the medical community that carbohydrates and sugars are both known to be aggrivators of inflammation in the body. Although I'm glad to know this now, I sure wish she would have told me that years ago! Lol0 -
I eat a lot of fruits and my love for chocolate is eternal, so no. 0
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It is just being glycogen depleted and getting your body adapted to burning fat as fuel a little higher in the mix
As with any diet watch your calories in and calories burnt thru just living and then adding exercise
Some feel more full on fibrous veggies and meat.
It works for me for the latter reason.
I'm a fan of fasted long duration cardio too.
But at the end of the day, I eat less than my body needs and lose weight.
I advocate the lower carb diet types, but you can over eat on them and gain weight.
There is no silver bullet. Any diet can be made to fail by over consuming.
I have been lower carb, not super low carb, for 2 years and lost net 130 pounds and added back around 20!lbs of muscle
It is always about burning more than you take in.
Think about it this way. People that are on a lower carb diet type can go to maintenance calorie levels and maintain.
That itself is proof there is a calorie level where you do not lose weight on low carb. Anyone saying that you can eat limitless food is ignoring that simple fact.0 -
MissBabyJane wrote: »I eat a lot of fruits and my love for chocolate is eternal, so no.
I eat fruit too, mostly berries, and I did not have to give up eating chocolate by going LCHF! In fact, I eat chocolate several times a week!0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »It is just being glycogen depleted and getting your body adapted to burning fat as fuel a little higher in the mix
As with any diet watch your calories in and calories burnt thru just living and then adding exercise
Some feel more full on fibrous veggies and meat.
I advocate the lower carb diet types, but you can over eat on them and gain weight.
There is no silver bullet. Any diet can be made to fail by over consuming.
It is always about burning more than you take in.
Think about it this way. People that are on a lower carb diet type can go to maintenance calorie levels and maintain.
That itself is proof there is a calorie level where you do not lose weight on low carb. Anyone saying that you can eat limitless food is ignoring that simple fact.
Agreed!0 -
In ketosis you can have a higher deficit than in a standard hypocaloric diet, that's why is quicker.tigersword wrote: »
False. Calorie deficit empties adipocytes, regardless of macro ratio. The only reason people seem to think keto diets burn more fat is because there's a mental disconnect where they don't pay attention to the fact that they are consuming such a high level of fat, which the body digests before turning to fat stores. With a 2000 calorie TDEE (for example) eating 1500 calories worth of carbs or eating 1500 calories worth of fat would both result in exactly 500 calories of stored fat burned to make up the deficit. Honestly, the carbs might even burn a bit more, as TEF for carbs is between 10 and 15%, while TEF for fat is only 2-3%.This diet sounds soooooooo hard and not quick and convenient
If you mean "quick to empty adipocytes", it is the quicker diet I think. It is the only dietary approach that turns your body into a fat-burning machine (most part of enrgy will come from fat), forming ketones from fatty acids and using them instead of glucose (there remains cells that still need glucose, but all the muscolar works and up to 70% of brain energy can come from ketones).
Well that isn't true. That is an assumption based on another assumption that people feel fuller with Keto diets.0 -
In ketosis you can have a higher deficit than in a standard hypocaloric diet, that's why is quicker.tigersword wrote: »
False. Calorie deficit empties adipocytes, regardless of macro ratio. The only reason people seem to think keto diets burn more fat is because there's a mental disconnect where they don't pay attention to the fact that they are consuming such a high level of fat, which the body digests before turning to fat stores. With a 2000 calorie TDEE (for example) eating 1500 calories worth of carbs or eating 1500 calories worth of fat would both result in exactly 500 calories of stored fat burned to make up the deficit. Honestly, the carbs might even burn a bit more, as TEF for carbs is between 10 and 15%, while TEF for fat is only 2-3%.This diet sounds soooooooo hard and not quick and convenient
If you mean "quick to empty adipocytes", it is the quicker diet I think. It is the only dietary approach that turns your body into a fat-burning machine (most part of enrgy will come from fat), forming ketones from fatty acids and using them instead of glucose (there remains cells that still need glucose, but all the muscolar works and up to 70% of brain energy can come from ketones).
Well that isn't true. That is an assumption based on another assumption that people feel fuller with Keto diets.
Probably quicker due to the initial loss of water weight...0 -
In ketosis you can have a higher deficit than in a standard hypocaloric diet, that's why is quicker.tigersword wrote: »
False. Calorie deficit empties adipocytes, regardless of macro ratio. The only reason people seem to think keto diets burn more fat is because there's a mental disconnect where they don't pay attention to the fact that they are consuming such a high level of fat, which the body digests before turning to fat stores. With a 2000 calorie TDEE (for example) eating 1500 calories worth of carbs or eating 1500 calories worth of fat would both result in exactly 500 calories of stored fat burned to make up the deficit. Honestly, the carbs might even burn a bit more, as TEF for carbs is between 10 and 15%, while TEF for fat is only 2-3%.This diet sounds soooooooo hard and not quick and convenient
If you mean "quick to empty adipocytes", it is the quicker diet I think. It is the only dietary approach that turns your body into a fat-burning machine (most part of enrgy will come from fat), forming ketones from fatty acids and using them instead of glucose (there remains cells that still need glucose, but all the muscolar works and up to 70% of brain energy can come from ketones).
Well that isn't true. That is an assumption based on another assumption that people feel fuller with Keto diets.
Probably quicker due to the initial loss of water weight...
In the short term, of course.. over a 6 or 12 month period, probably not.
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In ketosis you can have a higher deficit than in a standard hypocaloric diet, that's why is quicker.tigersword wrote: »
False. Calorie deficit empties adipocytes, regardless of macro ratio. The only reason people seem to think keto diets burn more fat is because there's a mental disconnect where they don't pay attention to the fact that they are consuming such a high level of fat, which the body digests before turning to fat stores. With a 2000 calorie TDEE (for example) eating 1500 calories worth of carbs or eating 1500 calories worth of fat would both result in exactly 500 calories of stored fat burned to make up the deficit. Honestly, the carbs might even burn a bit more, as TEF for carbs is between 10 and 15%, while TEF for fat is only 2-3%.This diet sounds soooooooo hard and not quick and convenient
If you mean "quick to empty adipocytes", it is the quicker diet I think. It is the only dietary approach that turns your body into a fat-burning machine (most part of enrgy will come from fat), forming ketones from fatty acids and using them instead of glucose (there remains cells that still need glucose, but all the muscolar works and up to 70% of brain energy can come from ketones).
Well that isn't true. That is an assumption based on another assumption that people feel fuller with Keto diets.
Probably quicker due to the initial loss of water weight...
In the short term, of course.. over a 6 or 12 month period, probably not.
Agreed...0 -
In ketosis you can have a higher deficit than in a standard hypocaloric diet, that's why is quicker.tigersword wrote: »
False. Calorie deficit empties adipocytes, regardless of macro ratio. The only reason people seem to think keto diets burn more fat is because there's a mental disconnect where they don't pay attention to the fact that they are consuming such a high level of fat, which the body digests before turning to fat stores. With a 2000 calorie TDEE (for example) eating 1500 calories worth of carbs or eating 1500 calories worth of fat would both result in exactly 500 calories of stored fat burned to make up the deficit. Honestly, the carbs might even burn a bit more, as TEF for carbs is between 10 and 15%, while TEF for fat is only 2-3%.This diet sounds soooooooo hard and not quick and convenient
If you mean "quick to empty adipocytes", it is the quicker diet I think. It is the only dietary approach that turns your body into a fat-burning machine (most part of enrgy will come from fat), forming ketones from fatty acids and using them instead of glucose (there remains cells that still need glucose, but all the muscolar works and up to 70% of brain energy can come from ketones).
Well that isn't true. That is an assumption based on another assumption that people feel fuller with Keto diets.
Also an assumption that a higher deficit is better. I intentionally decreased my deficit when I was actively losing, since I wanted to minimize muscle loss and was really active.0 -
Well that isn't true. That is an assumption based on another assumption that people feel fuller with Keto diets.
as witnessed by evidence - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/obr.12230/abstract
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tigersword wrote: »With a 2000 calorie TDEE (for example) eating 1500 calories worth of carbs or eating 1500 calories worth of fat would both result in exactly 500 calories of stored fat burned to make up the deficit.
I guess you missed Hall's 6 day study which did not show that in practice under tightly controlled conditions.
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This is not an assumption.
You can simply - for example - go running 40-50km every week, without consider that amount of kcals in your tdee. In this case you really can burn 4Mcals from fats without having to restore your fat "depots" (and that is impossible if you relies on glycogen).
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This is not an assumption.
You can simply - for example - go running 40-50km every week, without consider that amount of kcals in your tdee. In this case you really can burn 4Mcals from fats without having to restore your fat "depots" (and that is impossible if you relies on glycogen).
Do you have a study to support that position?
And I am struggling to understand what you are trying to demonstrate with your example.0 -
Ketosis is "designed" to minimize lean mass loss and to maximize fat mass loss. It is the way it works, you can find a lot of documentation.0
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Ketosis is "designed" to minimize lean mass loss and to maximize fat mass loss. It is the way it works, you can find a lot of documentation.
The only reason a Keto diet would minimize lean body mass loss, is due to an increase in protein. The same results can be achieved with a variety of other diets. The key to muscle retention is maintain ~.8-1g of protein per lb of lean body mass and resistance training.... which literally has nothing to do with Keto. Heck, I can show you studies on obese people who have 800 calorie liquid diets and do resistance training and increase metabolic rates and maintain muscle mass...
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I didn't read through all the responses, so I apologize if something like this was said. My mother was a little overweight her entire life. 10 years ago she went keto and lost 50 pounds. She has kept it off these 10 years by following the keto diet. It works for her and she claims to have a very slow metabolism.0
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stevencloser wrote: »
It depends on how the people involved in the study were training. You cannot have the same amount of energy for sport ... So, if you are in a non ketogenic hypocalric diet and your energy expense is greater than your daily food intake, you will get energy from protein catabolism. If you are in ketosis, you will get energy from fat catabolism.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Ah yes, the one that ironically showed no fat loss at all in the women on either diet, and the same fat loss in men on both diets despite restricted carbs having a smaller deficit.
Where does it quantify the FFM change ? I couldn't see it.
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GaleHawkins wrote:Again I tried this for pain management and in the first 30 days it worked very well and continues to do so. Of course getting instant gratification I would have kept doing if it had been hard, not quick or convenient.
May I ask is that arthritic pain you speak of? and you are not getting that pain anymore since starting keto? That is amazing.
@coco_bee 30 days after I cut out foods with sugars/grains my arthritis joint/muscle pain dropped from a subjective 7-8 to 2-3 on a 1-10 scale. My doctor's appoint was 7 Nov 2014 to start Enbrel injections and I was able to say thanks but no thanks to Enbrel because I when <50 grams of carbs daily cold turkey the month before.
@Asher_Ethan thanks for sharing the awesome story about your mom's 10 year keto success story.
@psulemon apparently lean body mass loss (protein sparing) is a feature of keto eating and does not require an increase in protein from one's diet. The four methods of protein sparing proposed are at the end of the study below. It sounds like magic to some but the article deals with the science to some degree. It is a complex subject but seems to spare protein to some extent unlike other types of diet.
nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/9
Since I have found no way to subscribe or get email notices when someone posts to a thread where I posted like the mainstream forums please just use the @GaleHawkins so I can get back to read your post thoughts.
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