800-pound-man-kicked-out-of-hospital-for-ordering-pizza
Replies
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People are treated against their will ever day. Like I said, it happens about one thousand times a day, every day. That's not new territory in the world of psychiatric treatment. Even if you enter voluntarily, they can keep you there against your will if they decide they need to do that.Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
We lock up anorexics, but they really cannot think clearly because the starving has messed up their brains.
There is lots of talk about making obesity a mental illness, but IMO, it won't go anywhere. Some people have medical issues. Some very high-up lawyers and politicians are fat. They'd fight it, for sure.
I don't know. If we can label those who starve with EDs, can we label those who eat too much? People with BED are already labeled. So, why not the obese?
I don't know. You keep going with that and eventually, everyone who eats pizza is now mentally ill, lol. It is for smarter people than me to decide how to work that out...or whether it even should be worked out.
As far as this guy goes, though, I'd bet there is more going on than just an eating disorder. He needs help with more than his diet.
I agree your slippery slope isn't all that slippery. It's plausible. I agree he needs far more than help with his eating (most likely).
I don't want to derail further, so I'll just say the mental health field isn't where I personally think it needs to be to treat a lot of things it does treat against a patient's will, so I suppose for now the less power that 'industry' has the better. At the same time, I don't like the idea of a human being dying because he can get pizza into his hospital room. I guess I'm torn.0 -
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People are treated against their will ever day. Like I said, it happens about one thousand times a day, every day. That's not new territory in the world of psychiatric treatment. Even if you enter voluntarily, they can keep you there against your will if they decide they need to do that.Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
We lock up anorexics, but they really cannot think clearly because the starving has messed up their brains.
There is lots of talk about making obesity a mental illness, but IMO, it won't go anywhere. Some people have medical issues. Some very high-up lawyers and politicians are fat. They'd fight it, for sure.
I don't know. If we can label those who starve with EDs, can we label those who eat too much? People with BED are already labeled. So, why not the obese?
I don't know. You keep going with that and eventually, everyone who eats pizza is now mentally ill, lol. It is for smarter people than me to decide how to work that out...or whether it even should be worked out.
As far as this guy goes, though, I'd bet there is more going on than just an eating disorder. He needs help with more than his diet.
I agree your slippery slope isn't all that slippery. It's plausible. I agree he needs far more than help with his eating (most likely).
I don't want to derail further, so I'll just say the mental health field isn't where I personally think it needs to be to treat a lot of things it does treat against a patient's will, so I suppose for now the less power that 'industry' has the better. At the same time, I don't like the idea of a human being dying because he can get pizza into his hospital room. I guess I'm torn.
I don't like it, either. You hear this stuff and you want to help the guy, you know? And even if it doesn't help, you want to lock him up and try. But it's hard to justify locking someone up for eating food that is bad for them, lol. Most people would have to be locked up. If they're going to help him, they need to find some other reason to do it. I bet one exists.
Let him scream when the dad won't give him pizza and, as someone else said, let the neighbors call the cops and let the cops arrest him. There is a reason to lock him up. He screams when he doesn't get pizza.
I knew a woman who got permanently committed because she was a chicken.
I had another woman who pretended to be a bird, but she just liked pretending. She chirped when her SO had to leave. He begged to stay because "she won't open her little mouth to be fed by anyone but me," but he left, even amid her chirps of protest. Less than a day later, she realized it was serious, admitted to not being a bird and said that she liked pretending and wanted to go home and pretend to be a bird some more. She also opened her little mouth and fed herself. Is she a nut? Kind of!! Was she in need of commitment? Not as long as she had that guy who enjoyed feeding his bird.
Chicken woman, though, had to be locked up. She was much more fun, being a chicken, than bird woman was, pretending to be a bird. But chicken woman couldn't function in society. Even when she was sitting, she wasn't role-playing. She was deeply disturbed, couldn't function in society and had to be committed, where I'm sure she is flapping her wings and bawk-bawking to this day.
It really depends and has to be evaluated by people with sense and some training. Figuring out who is super-crazy and who just is a little wacky...you can't litigate that or read it in a book or make a checklist. Both the Poultry Females sound absolutely crazy, but only one of them really was.
The sad truth is that many people who are mentally ill cannot be treated. We can't fix them. Nobody could fix chicken woman.
Your typical ED person can be fixed or at least taught how to behave so that they can overcome their issue, but many mental illnesses...the drugs just don't exist and no amount of talking can make a person who is off-the-wall crazy become sane.0 -
People are treated against their will ever day. Like I said, it happens about one thousand times a day, every day. That's not new territory in the world of psychiatric treatment. Even if you enter voluntarily, they can keep you there against your will if they decide they need to do that.Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
We lock up anorexics, but they really cannot think clearly because the starving has messed up their brains.
There is lots of talk about making obesity a mental illness, but IMO, it won't go anywhere. Some people have medical issues. Some very high-up lawyers and politicians are fat. They'd fight it, for sure.
I don't know. If we can label those who starve with EDs, can we label those who eat too much? People with BED are already labeled. So, why not the obese?
I don't know. You keep going with that and eventually, everyone who eats pizza is now mentally ill, lol. It is for smarter people than me to decide how to work that out...or whether it even should be worked out.
As far as this guy goes, though, I'd bet there is more going on than just an eating disorder. He needs help with more than his diet.
I agree your slippery slope isn't all that slippery. It's plausible. I agree he needs far more than help with his eating (most likely).
I don't want to derail further, so I'll just say the mental health field isn't where I personally think it needs to be to treat a lot of things it does treat against a patient's will, so I suppose for now the less power that 'industry' has the better. At the same time, I don't like the idea of a human being dying because he can get pizza into his hospital room. I guess I'm torn.
I don't like it, either. You hear this stuff and you want to help the guy, you know? And even if it doesn't help, you want to lock him up and try. But it's hard to justify locking someone up for eating food that is bad for them, lol. Most people would have to be locked up. If they're going to help him, they need to find some other reason to do it. I bet one exists.
Let him scream when the dad won't give him pizza and, as someone else said, let the neighbors call the cops and let the cops arrest him. There is a reason to lock him up. He screams when he doesn't get pizza.
I knew a woman who got permanently committed because she was a chicken.
I had another woman who pretended to be a bird, but she just liked pretending. She chirped when her SO had to leave. He begged to stay because "she won't open her little mouth to be fed by anyone but me," but he left, even amid her chirps of protest. Less than a day later, she realized it was serious, admitted to not being a bird and said that she liked pretending and wanted to go home and pretend to be a bird some more. She also opened her little mouth and fed herself. Is she a nut? Kind of!! Was she in need of commitment? Not as long as she had that guy who enjoyed feeding his bird.
Chicken woman, though, had to be locked up. She was much more fun, being a chicken, than bird woman was, pretending to be a bird. But chicken woman couldn't function in society. Even when she was sitting, she wasn't role-playing. She was deeply disturbed, couldn't function in society and had to be committed, where I'm sure she is flapping her wings and bawk-bawking to this day.
It really depends and has to be evaluated by people with sense and some training. Figuring out who is super-crazy and who just is a little wacky...you can't litigate that or read it in a book or make a checklist. Both the Poultry Females sound absolutely crazy, but only one of them really was.
The sad truth is that many people who are mentally ill cannot be treated. We can't fix them. Nobody could fix chicken woman.
Your typical ED person can be fixed or at least taught how to behave so that they can overcome their issue, but many mental illnesses...the drugs just don't exist and no amount of talking can make a person who is off-the-wall crazy become sane.
Wow, what a read! Suddenly my issues don't sound so terrible.
Then again, I'm a political misfit in my particular society, and talk about a slippery slope. For now it seems you have to be pretty clucking coo coo to be committed. But what about tomorrow? These things worry me. People dying over food choices worry me. I guess I won't worry myself crazy over it. And if I ever decide to roleplay as poultry, I'll make sure I have a tolerant 'farmer' husband, first!
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Cuckoo and broke. If you have enough money and manage not to make disturbances in public, you may be able to function forever. Even if you do make disturbances, a good lawyer will get it over with quickly. Pay your fines and go back to whatever.
People are treated against their will ever day. Like I said, it happens about one thousand times a day, every day. That's not new territory in the world of psychiatric treatment. Even if you enter voluntarily, they can keep you there against your will if they decide they need to do that.Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
We lock up anorexics, but they really cannot think clearly because the starving has messed up their brains.
There is lots of talk about making obesity a mental illness, but IMO, it won't go anywhere. Some people have medical issues. Some very high-up lawyers and politicians are fat. They'd fight it, for sure.
I don't know. If we can label those who starve with EDs, can we label those who eat too much? People with BED are already labeled. So, why not the obese?
I don't know. You keep going with that and eventually, everyone who eats pizza is now mentally ill, lol. It is for smarter people than me to decide how to work that out...or whether it even should be worked out.
As far as this guy goes, though, I'd bet there is more going on than just an eating disorder. He needs help with more than his diet.
I agree your slippery slope isn't all that slippery. It's plausible. I agree he needs far more than help with his eating (most likely).
I don't want to derail further, so I'll just say the mental health field isn't where I personally think it needs to be to treat a lot of things it does treat against a patient's will, so I suppose for now the less power that 'industry' has the better. At the same time, I don't like the idea of a human being dying because he can get pizza into his hospital room. I guess I'm torn.
I don't like it, either. You hear this stuff and you want to help the guy, you know? And even if it doesn't help, you want to lock him up and try. But it's hard to justify locking someone up for eating food that is bad for them, lol. Most people would have to be locked up. If they're going to help him, they need to find some other reason to do it. I bet one exists.
Let him scream when the dad won't give him pizza and, as someone else said, let the neighbors call the cops and let the cops arrest him. There is a reason to lock him up. He screams when he doesn't get pizza.
I knew a woman who got permanently committed because she was a chicken.
I had another woman who pretended to be a bird, but she just liked pretending. She chirped when her SO had to leave. He begged to stay because "she won't open her little mouth to be fed by anyone but me," but he left, even amid her chirps of protest. Less than a day later, she realized it was serious, admitted to not being a bird and said that she liked pretending and wanted to go home and pretend to be a bird some more. She also opened her little mouth and fed herself. Is she a nut? Kind of!! Was she in need of commitment? Not as long as she had that guy who enjoyed feeding his bird.
Chicken woman, though, had to be locked up. She was much more fun, being a chicken, than bird woman was, pretending to be a bird. But chicken woman couldn't function in society. Even when she was sitting, she wasn't role-playing. She was deeply disturbed, couldn't function in society and had to be committed, where I'm sure she is flapping her wings and bawk-bawking to this day.
It really depends and has to be evaluated by people with sense and some training. Figuring out who is super-crazy and who just is a little wacky...you can't litigate that or read it in a book or make a checklist. Both the Poultry Females sound absolutely crazy, but only one of them really was.
The sad truth is that many people who are mentally ill cannot be treated. We can't fix them. Nobody could fix chicken woman.
Your typical ED person can be fixed or at least taught how to behave so that they can overcome their issue, but many mental illnesses...the drugs just don't exist and no amount of talking can make a person who is off-the-wall crazy become sane.
Wow, what a read! Suddenly my issues don't sound so terrible.
Then again, I'm a political misfit in my particular society, and talk about a slippery slope. For now it seems you have to be pretty clucking coo coo to be committed. But what about tomorrow? These things worry me. People dying over food choices worry me. I guess I won't worry myself crazy over it. And if I ever decide to roleplay as poultry, I'll make sure I have a tolerant 'farmer' husband, first!
Old people whose minds are going might do weird things. A former religious leader (or substitue? I forget) got up in front of the congregation and began to disrobe. He wasn't really a danger to society, though. He just needed his family and friends to watch over him better. Then someone else who disrobes might be a sexual predator.
Fine lines. Tough to write laws, especially when you simply cannot cover every kind of crazy.
It does seem wrong to lock someone up for eating pizza, but still. Guy needs help. I sincerely hope he gets it.
Like I said, smarter people then I will have to figure all that out.
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I know they want him to lose the weight quickly but I can never understand why they can't let patients do it with pizza, just less of it. I know that sounds odd but I dunno, is the only choice shakes? What is the diet protocol? Can't he have a decent loss considering what his current tdee would be and still enjoy it and learn how to eat in a different satiating way ...like 2 slices of pizza and salad and zero Coke instead? He could still have a hefty deficit with that. Hand in hand with education? Psychology? Maybe they do do that?
I know this doesn't address everything with him like his mental state and he'll probably still want more regardless. I just don't understand the need for maximum extremes and then expecting compliance.0 -
Cuckoo and broke. If you have enough money and manage not to make disturbances in public, you may be able to function forever. Even if you do make disturbances, a good lawyer will get it over with quickly. Pay your fines and go back to whatever.
People are treated against their will ever day. Like I said, it happens about one thousand times a day, every day. That's not new territory in the world of psychiatric treatment. Even if you enter voluntarily, they can keep you there against your will if they decide they need to do that.Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
We lock up anorexics, but they really cannot think clearly because the starving has messed up their brains.
There is lots of talk about making obesity a mental illness, but IMO, it won't go anywhere. Some people have medical issues. Some very high-up lawyers and politicians are fat. They'd fight it, for sure.
I don't know. If we can label those who starve with EDs, can we label those who eat too much? People with BED are already labeled. So, why not the obese?
I don't know. You keep going with that and eventually, everyone who eats pizza is now mentally ill, lol. It is for smarter people than me to decide how to work that out...or whether it even should be worked out.
As far as this guy goes, though, I'd bet there is more going on than just an eating disorder. He needs help with more than his diet.
I agree your slippery slope isn't all that slippery. It's plausible. I agree he needs far more than help with his eating (most likely).
I don't want to derail further, so I'll just say the mental health field isn't where I personally think it needs to be to treat a lot of things it does treat against a patient's will, so I suppose for now the less power that 'industry' has the better. At the same time, I don't like the idea of a human being dying because he can get pizza into his hospital room. I guess I'm torn.
I don't like it, either. You hear this stuff and you want to help the guy, you know? And even if it doesn't help, you want to lock him up and try. But it's hard to justify locking someone up for eating food that is bad for them, lol. Most people would have to be locked up. If they're going to help him, they need to find some other reason to do it. I bet one exists.
Let him scream when the dad won't give him pizza and, as someone else said, let the neighbors call the cops and let the cops arrest him. There is a reason to lock him up. He screams when he doesn't get pizza.
I knew a woman who got permanently committed because she was a chicken.
I had another woman who pretended to be a bird, but she just liked pretending. She chirped when her SO had to leave. He begged to stay because "she won't open her little mouth to be fed by anyone but me," but he left, even amid her chirps of protest. Less than a day later, she realized it was serious, admitted to not being a bird and said that she liked pretending and wanted to go home and pretend to be a bird some more. She also opened her little mouth and fed herself. Is she a nut? Kind of!! Was she in need of commitment? Not as long as she had that guy who enjoyed feeding his bird.
Chicken woman, though, had to be locked up. She was much more fun, being a chicken, than bird woman was, pretending to be a bird. But chicken woman couldn't function in society. Even when she was sitting, she wasn't role-playing. She was deeply disturbed, couldn't function in society and had to be committed, where I'm sure she is flapping her wings and bawk-bawking to this day.
It really depends and has to be evaluated by people with sense and some training. Figuring out who is super-crazy and who just is a little wacky...you can't litigate that or read it in a book or make a checklist. Both the Poultry Females sound absolutely crazy, but only one of them really was.
The sad truth is that many people who are mentally ill cannot be treated. We can't fix them. Nobody could fix chicken woman.
Your typical ED person can be fixed or at least taught how to behave so that they can overcome their issue, but many mental illnesses...the drugs just don't exist and no amount of talking can make a person who is off-the-wall crazy become sane.
Wow, what a read! Suddenly my issues don't sound so terrible.
Then again, I'm a political misfit in my particular society, and talk about a slippery slope. For now it seems you have to be pretty clucking coo coo to be committed. But what about tomorrow? These things worry me. People dying over food choices worry me. I guess I won't worry myself crazy over it. And if I ever decide to roleplay as poultry, I'll make sure I have a tolerant 'farmer' husband, first!
Old people whose minds are going might do weird things. A former religious leader (or substitue? I forget) got up in front of the congregation and began to disrobe. He wasn't really a danger to society, though. He just needed his family and friends to watch over him better. Then someone else who disrobes might be a sexual predator.
Fine lines. Tough to write laws, especially when you simply cannot cover every kind of crazy.
It does seem wrong to lock someone up for eating pizza, but still. Guy needs help. I sincerely hope he gets it.
Like I said, smarter people then I will have to figure all that out.
I seem to recall an old joke about rich people never being crazy. Just eccentric.
I'll just say one thing about that and leave it, since it borders on the political: That's a loathsome standard for society to have over who gets locked up and 'helped' (note those quotation marks!) and who doesn't. It's one good reason not to ever trust my tender, impoverished carcass to the mercies of mental health.
Even so, I don't sit there and tell people on this or any other forum or in person to avoid mental health treatment for serious eating disorders, so I guess mental health services must serve some use and save some lives. It just needs fixing. Much like chicken lady and pizza boy need fixing. I suspect if the services are fixed the services will then be able to fix more people.0 -
People in mental health, by and large, are there to help. They're not nazis who want to control anyone or lock people up because they disagree with them.
Cuckoo and broke. If you have enough money and manage not to make disturbances in public, you may be able to function forever. Even if you do make disturbances, a good lawyer will get it over with quickly. Pay your fines and go back to whatever.
People are treated against their will ever day. Like I said, it happens about one thousand times a day, every day. That's not new territory in the world of psychiatric treatment. Even if you enter voluntarily, they can keep you there against your will if they decide they need to do that.Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
We lock up anorexics, but they really cannot think clearly because the starving has messed up their brains.
There is lots of talk about making obesity a mental illness, but IMO, it won't go anywhere. Some people have medical issues. Some very high-up lawyers and politicians are fat. They'd fight it, for sure.
I don't know. If we can label those who starve with EDs, can we label those who eat too much? People with BED are already labeled. So, why not the obese?
I don't know. You keep going with that and eventually, everyone who eats pizza is now mentally ill, lol. It is for smarter people than me to decide how to work that out...or whether it even should be worked out.
As far as this guy goes, though, I'd bet there is more going on than just an eating disorder. He needs help with more than his diet.
I agree your slippery slope isn't all that slippery. It's plausible. I agree he needs far more than help with his eating (most likely).
I don't want to derail further, so I'll just say the mental health field isn't where I personally think it needs to be to treat a lot of things it does treat against a patient's will, so I suppose for now the less power that 'industry' has the better. At the same time, I don't like the idea of a human being dying because he can get pizza into his hospital room. I guess I'm torn.
I don't like it, either. You hear this stuff and you want to help the guy, you know? And even if it doesn't help, you want to lock him up and try. But it's hard to justify locking someone up for eating food that is bad for them, lol. Most people would have to be locked up. If they're going to help him, they need to find some other reason to do it. I bet one exists.
Let him scream when the dad won't give him pizza and, as someone else said, let the neighbors call the cops and let the cops arrest him. There is a reason to lock him up. He screams when he doesn't get pizza.
I knew a woman who got permanently committed because she was a chicken.
I had another woman who pretended to be a bird, but she just liked pretending. She chirped when her SO had to leave. He begged to stay because "she won't open her little mouth to be fed by anyone but me," but he left, even amid her chirps of protest. Less than a day later, she realized it was serious, admitted to not being a bird and said that she liked pretending and wanted to go home and pretend to be a bird some more. She also opened her little mouth and fed herself. Is she a nut? Kind of!! Was she in need of commitment? Not as long as she had that guy who enjoyed feeding his bird.
Chicken woman, though, had to be locked up. She was much more fun, being a chicken, than bird woman was, pretending to be a bird. But chicken woman couldn't function in society. Even when she was sitting, she wasn't role-playing. She was deeply disturbed, couldn't function in society and had to be committed, where I'm sure she is flapping her wings and bawk-bawking to this day.
It really depends and has to be evaluated by people with sense and some training. Figuring out who is super-crazy and who just is a little wacky...you can't litigate that or read it in a book or make a checklist. Both the Poultry Females sound absolutely crazy, but only one of them really was.
The sad truth is that many people who are mentally ill cannot be treated. We can't fix them. Nobody could fix chicken woman.
Your typical ED person can be fixed or at least taught how to behave so that they can overcome their issue, but many mental illnesses...the drugs just don't exist and no amount of talking can make a person who is off-the-wall crazy become sane.
Wow, what a read! Suddenly my issues don't sound so terrible.
Then again, I'm a political misfit in my particular society, and talk about a slippery slope. For now it seems you have to be pretty clucking coo coo to be committed. But what about tomorrow? These things worry me. People dying over food choices worry me. I guess I won't worry myself crazy over it. And if I ever decide to roleplay as poultry, I'll make sure I have a tolerant 'farmer' husband, first!
Old people whose minds are going might do weird things. A former religious leader (or substitue? I forget) got up in front of the congregation and began to disrobe. He wasn't really a danger to society, though. He just needed his family and friends to watch over him better. Then someone else who disrobes might be a sexual predator.
Fine lines. Tough to write laws, especially when you simply cannot cover every kind of crazy.
It does seem wrong to lock someone up for eating pizza, but still. Guy needs help. I sincerely hope he gets it.
Like I said, smarter people then I will have to figure all that out.
I seem to recall an old joke about rich people never being crazy. Just eccentric.
I'll just say one thing about that and leave it, since it borders on the political: That's a loathsome standard for society to have over who gets locked up and 'helped' (note those quotation marks!) and who doesn't. It's one good reason not to ever trust my tender, impoverished carcass to the mercies of mental health.
Even so, I don't sit there and tell people on this or any other forum or in person to avoid mental health treatment for serious eating disorders, so I guess mental health services must serve some use and save some lives. It just needs fixing. Much like chicken lady and pizza boy need fixing. I suspect if the services are fixed the services will then be able to fix more people.
Different people like working with different patients. Personally, I got to the point where I just wanted to work with addicts and anorexics. I liked a lot of patients, but couldn't stand the Borderlines. I don't have the patience for their ridiculous games and it's always the same thing. It's always the same thing with anorexics, too, but it's different. Other people love the Borderlines and think it's fun to work with them.
Everybody likes what they like. But they're all there to help.
I'm sure you would find the stray person here or there who wants to be officious and lock people up because they can, but there really won't a lot of that.
I knew chicken woman had to be committed. Everyone knew it. But we also knew that bird woman didn't need to be locked up.
99 times out of 100, people just need therapy, drugs and some help from social services. Most mental health places find good social workers (the kind who get things done) and bring them on board as employees, so they don't have to bother with trying to contact the workers in the welfare or housing offices. And people get released.
Bird woman got released. One guy, I was convinced that if he hadn't already murdered someone, he would. I got not one, but two psychiatrists who agreed. He got released. We had no reason to hold him. "I'm confident that he's going to murder someone" isn't a reason to lock someone up.
Encourage people to trust the mental health people, if you can. It's very unlikely that anyone will be permanently committed. They want to help people! That's why they're there! Most of them, anyway.
Plus, though it's super-easy to lock someone up for like a weekend, a lot of people have to agree that someone needs to be permanently committed before it happens.
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Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was literally starving to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
That's why waivers are signed from the very beginning. The 800 pound person says, yes, feed me what I need to eat to lose x number of pounds. Facility does that. 800 pound person says, "You are starving me!". Facility says, "No we aren't, you are getting the proper amount of nutrition and calories each day." 800 pound person dies because his relatives have been sneaking in pizza and calzones and chocolate covered cherries or other bonbons and cheesecake and more pizza. As long as the facility can prove they only provided the optimal number of calories for an 800 pound person, they have done their job. Is part of their job physically searching visitors? I think not. Yet they are the ones who get sued for a patient who died when his family was actually the people who killed him. Go figure.0 -
Since he's unable to move on his own,tinger wrote:nobody "enabled" me. I destructed all on my own. Yes there could have been an enabler for this
person but we don't know the full story behind his issues.
he's certainly unable to go grocery shopping on his own,
or go into the kitchen to cook on his own,
or go into the kitchen to get something from the fridge on his own,
or go to the door to pay for the pizza (ordered over the phone or internet) on his own,
so yes, of course he has an enabler!
All of these people who are grossly, morbidly obese to the point where they can't move have an
enabler feeding them.
.
His head is obviously not in the right place."almost everyone that diets has like a reward kind of thing," says Assanti.
He has to understand that he's NOT 'dieting', he's changing his life forever.
A diet is temporary. When you end your diet, go back to eating the way you were eating,
you'll gain the weight back.
.
Vitamin K is mostly made by bacteria in the intestines.I am not so sure about Vitamin K2
.
And realize that if you manage to get them involuntarily committed to a mental institution (not incarcerated...As the relative of mentally ill family members, involuntary incarceration is a big deal. One has to
prove that the person is not able to make informed decisions about their own health.
that's jail or prison), they lose some of their civil rights forever. It's a very serious thing to do to someone.
.
If cops (or a doctor) think you're an imminent danger to self or others, they can put you on a 72-hourpermanent commitment to a state facility, not just a quickie lock-up
hold in a psych ward. After that, the facility either has to release you or convince a judge to commit you.
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You cannot force people to be healthy, if he wants to eat himself to death, that is his choice and right. No point in wasting money, time and personnel on someone who seems to see no problem.0
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This thread has taken a very interesting direction and for me it has opened my ideas to the differences between Societies and levels of ownership around personal responsibility.
IMO here in Australia and I going to include the UK what happened to this individual would NEVER have reached the headlines. People fail because of their lack of commitment, no ifs no buts and no-one runs off to the Media. Check out the series - Weight Loss Ward if you are interested. Not one of them spat the goo and went to the Media.....
The gentleman's premise and his Father's as well is sad reflection of both of those individuals terrible relationship.
Food and manipulation in getting that food has become so complex that it would take forever to even begin to make in roads into dealing with the root cause and see if there is any help that professionals can offer that works......but you have to be prepared to do the hard yards yourself.....no one else can do it for you
The 33 year old is obviously resentful and not used to being told no and having consequences to the flaunting of the rules that he must have willingly signed.
The current level that obesity has reached. Already stretched services are under incredible strain, thus budget issues DO definitely require vetting clients....
Yes there is help and support out there. All systems have flaws but given the enormity faced with rising obesity levels it it important that patients realise that ultimately their life is in their hands.....he has to get his *kitten* together enough to take responsibility for the mess he has eaten himself into and also grow up enough mentally to stop making excuses.
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »
I don't know what the snort is. I was just wondering0 -
For anyone with a loved one suffering from mental illness, labels like "clucking coo coo" and "super-crazy" do very little to expedite the much-needed removal of stigma.0
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vivmom2014 wrote: »For anyone with a loved one suffering from mental illness, labels like "clucking coo coo" and "super-crazy" do very little to expedite the much-needed removal of stigma.
Sadly as a nation we have not made a lot of progress in the stigma removal department it seems.
I hope they do not get in a traffic accident.
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This 800-pound man obviously has deep issues which go far beyond stuffing his face. Short of medicating him until he's a brain-dead zombie, I doubt anything will stop him from ultimately destroying himself (with the help of his enabler(s), who will be complicit in his demise). IMO, the hospital was right to kick him out of the treatment program - he obviously has no intention of complying with treatment and the hospital doesn't want the liability, nor the disturbance in their program (he sets a bad example and quite possibly a trigger to other patients who are trying to stick with the program and succeed). The father appears to be a weak, ineffectual person who simultaneously enables his son and then wrings his hands and moans about how nobody will help him.
Most likely, the only effective way to treat the man would be to put him in a medically-induced coma, isolate him from his family and tube feed him the correct calories until he reached a healthy weight - a rather extreme solution which obviously can't (and shouldn't) be done against his will.0 -
Sorry if I was offensive, sometimes I should keep my sense of humor to myself. The things I say about my own anxiety and phobias are viciously amusing. To me, that is. Maybe not to others.
But the only crazy people I have contempt for are the ones I referenced in this thread at 6:29 pm. Everyone else, friend, fowl, or pizza lover, is the same as me. We all have issues. If you find someone who seems perfectly sane, send them to Area 51, they ain't even human!
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vivmom2014 wrote: »For anyone with a loved one suffering from mental illness, labels like "clucking coo coo" and "super-crazy" do very little to expedite the much-needed removal of stigma.
100% this.
As someone with a diagnosed mental illness, I find things like that rather offensive.0 -
This 800-pound man obviously has deep issues which go far beyond stuffing his face. Short of medicating him until he's a brain-dead zombie, I doubt anything will stop him from ultimately destroying himself (with the help of his enabler(s), who will be complicit in his demise). IMO, the hospital was right to kick him out of the treatment program - he obviously has no intention of complying with treatment and the hospital doesn't want the liability, nor the disturbance in their program (he sets a bad example and quite possibly a trigger to other patients who are trying to stick with the program and succeed). The father appears to be a weak, ineffectual person who simultaneously enables his son and then wrings his hands and moans about how nobody will help him.
Most likely, the only effective way to treat the man would be to put him in a medically-induced coma, isolate him from his family and tube feed him the correct calories until he reached a healthy weight - a rather extreme solution which obviously can't (and shouldn't) be done against his will.
Unfortunately as it's a behavioural addiction he would no doubt come out of his coma and return to his previous weight without the will to work hard at the psychological aspects of his condition and a willingness to change there's very little that can be done0 -
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And the truth starts to emerge. ....you tube videos of him mocking those paying for his treatment and him abusing a nurse.....0
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pootle1972 wrote: »And the truth starts to emerge. ....you tube videos of him mocking those paying for his treatment and him abusing a nurse.....
Whaaaaaat! Linkypoos??
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Can't link on phone but YouTube Steven assanti.....guys a narcasist.0
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Traveler120 wrote: »Being 800 lbs is surely worse than death.
Are you sure? That's a pretty oblivious statement to make for someone who has had to face neither one.0 -
Is it a mental illness to be overridden by a compulsion like over-eating? Sure, they are killing themselves. But it's legal and voluntary. Like smoking and drinking.
As for the enabling family, I believe the bedridden is well-practiced in the powers of coercion, and the family members conditioned to respond. An "unhealthy" symbiotic relationship if you will.
I always find myself wondering about the enabling family. If I think about my husband on one hand it's his choice, who am I to say what he can/cannot eat? On the other, if he was imbed ridden because of his diet I might start telling him!
With my son, I thing it would be much harder. He's only 3 so maybe it changes, but right now I am conditioned to attend to that vast majority of his needs. Watching him eat makes be happy and I will bring him food when he's sick. I can't say that I wouldn't want to do the same if he was "sick" from all that food.
I pride myself on trying my hardest to be objective, but it's really hard to be objective with your kid
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Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
I have to assume, and it is just an assumption, that an autopsy would have to prove that he died of malnutrition and not a heart attack or some other reason.
People die in hospitals often, it's kinda inevitable, but I think you have to show malpractice, you can't sue if an obese guy dies of a heart attack0 -
Just a snap thought without knowing the full story I think the guy was not taught the meaning of NO as a child.
Our kids just turned 18. No was not a hard concept to teach our son because he seemed to take the meaning of words literally when he was young.
We still have an old Blazer with a broken powered seat recline feature of the driver's seat because our daughter pounded both feet into it for 10 minutes with me driving down the road when she learned we were not going where she wanted to go. She stopped kicking at the half way point because she knew I was not going to turn around at that point. I guess she was about 9 or 10 at that time. She still wants her way but she knows today the world does not revolve around her.
Parents want to make kids happy but being an older parent I was aware that I might not be there long term so I could not permit myself to abuse her for the long term by letting her rule her Mom and Dad as a child on all matters of interest to her. When kids are permitted to take the role of parent and the parent the role of the child 10,20, or 30 years down the road it can turn out badly.
Both are awesome kids functioning well today at work outside of the home but the daughter took more effort to teach the world did not revolve around her.
The 33 year old guy sounded spoiled base on one posted story. Perhaps he associated being given food with being loved?0 -
pootle1972 wrote: »Can't link on phone but YouTube Steven assanti.....guys a narcasist.
Some sort of personality disorder, has to be. I tried to watch his candy review from the hospital bed, but I couldn't.0 -
crazyjerseygirl wrote: »Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
I have to assume, and it is just an assumption, that an autopsy would have to prove that he died of malnutrition and not a heart attack or some other reason.
People die in hospitals often, it's kinda inevitable, but I think you have to show malpractice, you can't sue if an obese guy dies of a heart attack
Yeah, but right to refuse treatment denied (even if someone agrees to it beforehand) coupled with a death could get it into court. Even though our justice system usually follows the money, companies still try to avoid lawsuits. And also, what is the guy's ability to pay? If he was rich enough, I'm sure a private hospitalization would have been arranged with possibly stricter rules about food in his room and if he could pay enough I doubt he'd be tossed out for any reason. Cynical, but that's our world.1
This discussion has been closed.
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