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800-pound-man-kicked-out-of-hospital-for-ordering-pizza
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Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1734744
More than likely yes, there is mental illness here. As an aside, I'm curious about how you think mental illness manifests. The man here is behaving abusively and obnoxiously in the videos... why is that in conflict in your mind with his also being mentally ill?
(ETA to fix autocorrect)0 -
Actually in this case, it is the father who has turned his son's condition into a freak show. I have spent days crying, having panic attacks, receiving death threats, talking to drs, involving even the police at some point, to help a close relative who was a danger to himself and others. At no point did it cross my mind to involve the media. I am sure that, like in most mental illnesses, incidents from my relative's life would have made a very "entertaining" story and he too could become as "famous" as this man. Why the father chose to seek this type of attention is beyond me, but I seriously doubt the 800 lbs man is the only one with serious issues in the family.
The father knows that if he attracts media attention, some other facility will step in. I bet this was My 600 Pound life: Assanti’s father told NBC that a “television medical show” called up his son this week.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1734744
More than likely yes, there is mental illness here. As an aside, I'm curious about how you think mental illness manifests. The man here is behaving abusively and obnoxiously in the videos... why is that in conflict in your mind with his also being mentally ill?
(ETA to fix autocorrect)
I haven't yet read the link, but will! I notice you're still saying "more than likely". Is it a given, or not, that there's a mental illness going on here? My conflict, as you say, is in assuming that one has a mental illness just because they are ranting and are fat. Are those things a sane person would never do?
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We're talking about ill people in a hospital setting, not prisoners in a prison. Your analogy is offensive.
If my brother, who was in both Bridgewater State Hospital and Plymouth County Correctional Facility in 2013, were on this forum, he would tell you the analogy was apt.0 -
Well, since this is the final day of Mental Health Awareness Week 2015, here are a few links for everyone. As well as this year's hashtag: #IAmStigmaFree (See the person, not the illness.) Last year's was #EveryMindMatters. Still true.
http://www.nami.org/
http://mhaweek.org/
http://everymindmatters.org/
http://www.eachmindmatters.org/
I see the effects every day of people being afraid to seek help, or being too embarrassed to seek help, or there not being enough resources to help those who do reach out. My hope is that things change. Soon.
NAMI has been a big support to my mother over the years.
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Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.0 -
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
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Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I tend not to trust media portrayals of individuals too much, especially if it crap shows like Dr. Phil
Example: http://nypost.com/2015/01/18/contestant-reveals-the-brutal-secrets-of-the-biggest-loser/0 -
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
To each his own. For what it's worth, I don't assume he has a mental illness. I suspect it's a good possibility, but it's irrelevant to how I would refer to him, without having ever interacted with him and only seen him on a television show made to dehumanize people for entertainment.0 -
[quote="kkenseth;34260241
[/quote]
To each his own. For what it's worth, I don't assume he has a mental illness. I suspect it's a good possibility, but it's irrelevant to how I would refer to him, without having ever interacted with him and only seen him on a television show made to dehumanize people for entertainment.[/quote]
Well said. (Here's looking at you, Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz.
)
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crazyjerseygirl wrote: »
I tend not to trust media portrayals of individuals too much, especially if it crap shows like Dr. Phil
Example: http://nypost.com/2015/01/18/contestant-reveals-the-brutal-secrets-of-the-biggest-loser/
It's not just shows like Dr. Phil. Most media needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I have seen news articles on local television that are run with half truths that portray one side better than the other. The reality is that a healthy dose of skepticism is a great idea.
I hope that the man in the OP gets the help that he needs. I hope that he finds another program, and that his is compliant with the program.
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
I also watched the video, and some of his YouTube postings (I was busy procrastinating yesterday, and it seemed like as good of an excuse as any). I am certain that there are many underlying confounding issues at play that cannot possibly be understood from a distance. All we can do is maintain compassion and understanding that there is more going on than what we see. Whether these things are diagnosable, or not, I cannot possibly begin to guess and have no intention to try.
Nothing, in anyone's life is ever what we perceive it to be from an external viewpoint. I know so many people who appear to have it together, but when you ask them the important questions in life, they are just as lost as the majority of us. I am not saying that no one has it together, just that it is not possible to truly know without sitting down, creating trust, and then asking the hard questions. Many of us hide the things we are most embarrassed by and ashamed of.0 -
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.0 -
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
And what would make me feel better would be examples of better human behavior in regards to anyone, no matter what their situation. Name calling is never acceptable.
Why is name calling so much worse than character derogation for name calling? Insults are insults.0 -
It wasn't a reference to a prison. "Asylum" was never synonymous with "penitentiary." Wellness centers, formerly mental health centers, formerly psych wards, were once referred to as asylums.kshama2001 wrote: »
If my brother, who was in both Bridgewater State Hospital and Plymouth County Correctional Facility in 2013, were on this forum, he would tell you the analogy was apt.
I've heard good things and horrible things about state facilities and have been told more than once that it wasn't the place for me. One guy said, "You wouldn't last a day there." But I don't know.
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He's also been in the state hospitals in Taunton and Worcester. Taunton was rather old and decrepid, but not bad in terms of how he was treated. Worcester is a beautiful new facility, but, well, too long a story to go into here. Neither were like Bridgewater, which does have a different mission.0
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The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
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Disordered behavior is usually considered a disorder once the symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in a person being able to live a relatively "normal" life. We can't diagnose an exact illness without treating him, but given that he is asking for help to lose weight and can't do so enough to make his way into an apartment, I think it's pretty safe to say that there is subjective and objective clinical distress in the works.
The symptoms that are being interpreted as possibly just a jerk's behavior are also causing clinically significant distress and impairment. What he has is not freedom-he's actually pretty dependent. If loved ones were to give up or go away, he would be helpless for some time to meet his own needs. He might get to say and think aggressive things or not control his intake, but when you've given up the rest of your life to do so, that's not doing whatever you want.
Most of us have fantasies of just eating or saying whatever we want. The reality is much less pleasant after a while, and people regulate their behavior. There's a big difference between morbid obesity and 800 lbs. Mental illness does not equal total loss of control of faculties. I'm not sure anyone can claim this man has anywhere near reasonable control in his life.0 -
Ahh, calling people names like DB wasn't enough....now there is comparing those who may have mental illness or other personality issues to rapists. Unacceptable.
Effective treatment usually entails not just respect and compassion but also increasing someone's insight into their own actions and own control over their actions. Treatment for this man would not be 100% validation and sympathy. It would also include a lot of feedback and tasks to take responsibility over choices regardless of what has happened in his life. Treatment includes helping people take a more honest and realistic look at the whole picture. Most people are not truly without some level of choice. Some people don't know how to handle things differently, though, or avoid accepting that they can. If he were to do some intensive treatment, I believe that he could improve his quality of life.
*Didn't mean to include Shell's response in the quote0 -
Effective treatment usually entails not just respect and compassion but also increasing someone's insight into their own actions and own control over their actions. Treatment for this man would not be 100% validation and sympathy. It would also include a lot of feedback and tasks to take responsibility over choices regardless of what has happened in his life. Treatment includes helping people take a more honest and realistic look at the whole picture. Most people are not truly without some level of choice. Some people don't know how to handle things differently, though, or avoid accepting that they can. If he were to do some intensive treatment, I believe that he could improve his quality of life.
*Didn't mean to include Shell's response in the quote
Yes, I do wonder how much he may be getting insulated from the consequences and feedback of his own behavior
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That has nothing to do with my comment you quoted.
Having a treatment plan and holding a client accountable is one thing. Calling the client names or comparing them to sex offenders is another.
I edited my post right away when it came up when I saw that I had quoted the wrong post (why it had nothing to do with your post.) We must have cross-posted.0 -
I'm just glad that unlike the other person in this thread, it doesn't seem like you work within the population. Thank goodness for that.
So, some words, then
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IdoScience wrote: »
I agree with you shell1005, I have never seen such cross-eyed and hateful behavior out of someone. Truly appalled
Mustn't have watched the John Assanti videos, then
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Yes, I do wonder how much he may be getting insulated from the consequences and feedback of his own behavior
My guess is that he has heard plenty of feedback, but it lacked the respect & compassion needed to hear it.0 -
My guess is that he has heard plenty of feedback, but it lacked the respect & compassion needed to hear it.
Assuming you're actually talking about him, you don't think he got that, say, in the facility that ultimately asked him to leave?
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Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
Working in the medical field, yes. No matter what the person in the room did, that person is there to receive medical attention and care for the condition for which he or she was admitted. Regardless of the person's past history (which the medical professional doesn't usually know), the person receives compassionate care and treatment. Even if the person treats staff rudely and says inappropriate things. Remember, this person is in a bad place in life - often in pain, whether it is mental or physical. Striking out at the people around him or her is common. That's not to say it's acceptable behavior, and the patient is told that it's not, (and if it's physical, and the patient is a danger to caregivers, restraints can be used) but the people providing the care do not get to return the poor treatment. Instead, we lead the way with compassion and empathy.
And as a fellow human being, in the everyday world, when people strike out with poor behavior, I still try to remember that. I don't know what people are suffering. I can only imagine what this man's life is like - it must be painful and miserable, and he's been enabled and poorly handled his entire life. So he strikes out and treats people poorly - yes, that makes him not a very nice person.
It doesn't give anyone else permission to call him names, or treat him poorly in return. Ever.0 -
It doesn't matter what they've done. You're not a judge and you're not sitting on a jury. You're there to do your work.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
There are going to be people you like more or less. That's just human nature. But if you begin treating people badly because you don't like them, then you're no better than they are. And you might be worse, since you're in a position to know better.
It is hard to love the violent people. It isn't hard to rise above that and treat them as humans. Humans who must be watched every second so that they don't go attacking other patients! But humans, all the same. The first time is the hardest. Well, no, the first time is the creepiest. The first time one of them tries to attack someone else - that's the hardest. After a while, like everything else, you get used to it. It doesn't seem so odd. Part of the job.
If you start passing judgement and treating those you like better than those you don't...first, you'll not be happy with yourself. Second, how far do you take it? Finally, you're dropping down to their level (which kind of goes back to the first thing, lol.)
Everyone has to look in the mirror. What kind of person do you want to be? The kind who tries to hurt others or the kind who doesn't?
It's not about them. It's about you and what kind of person you want to be.1 -
Some people with lower levels of wellness are rapists.
Ahh, calling people names like DB wasn't enough....now there is comparing those who may have mental illness or other personality issues to rapists. Unacceptable.
So, it's a valid question, whether you accept it or not.
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kshama2001 wrote: »He's also been in the state hospitals in Taunton and Worcester. Taunton was rather old and decrepid, but not bad in terms of how he was treated. Worcester is a beautiful new facility, but, well, too long a story to go into here. Neither were like Bridgewater, which does have a different mission.
I'm so sorry he had to go through whatever he went through.
I knew someone, once, who took too much pleasure in his job of restraining the violent. He was let go, but if know he probably found employment elsewhere. People have to watch for that. That kind of work will draw GOOD people who want to help protect others, but it will also sometimes draw people who want to take advantage of their position.
I hope he's doing well and being well cared for now.1 -
It doesn't matter what they've done. You're not a judge and you're not sitting on a jury. You're there to do your work.
There are going to be people you like more or less. That's just human nature. But if you begin treating people badly because you don't like them, then you're no better than they are. And you might be worse, since you're in a position to know better.
It is hard to love the violent people. It isn't hard to rise above that and treat them as humans. Humans who must be watched every second so that they don't go attacking other patients! But humans, all the same. The first time is the hardest. Well, no, the first time is the creepiest. The first time one of them tries to attack someone else - that's the hardest. After a while, like everything else, you get used to it. It doesn't seem so odd. Part of the job.
If you start passing judgement and treating those you like better than those you don't...first, you'll not be happy with yourself. Second, how far do you take it? Finally, you're dropping down to their level (which kind of goes back to the first thing, lol.)
Everyone has to look in the mirror. What kind of person do you want to be? The kind who tries to hurt others or the kind who doesn't?
It's not about them. It's about you and what kind of person you want to be.
this was very well said. I agree, completely.0
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