So you CAN eat McDonald's every day...
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janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Thought experiment: this happens and blood test results are still fine.Packerjohn wrote: »shadow2soul wrote: »random5483 wrote: »Losing weight is all about having a calorie deficit. Eating at McDonalds everyday and losing weight is definitely possible if you control your portions. However, I would not advise it. McDonalds is mostly unhealthy. Losing weight and being healthy are not one and the same.
His blood markers improved as well. He didn't have the student's just keep him at a calorie deficit. They had to make sure he was meeting the nutritional standards set by the FDA as well.
He lost 56 pounds of fat, I'm guessing that was a significant reason his blood test results improved. How about taking a person of a healthy BMI who is maintaining on say 2400 calories a day of nutrient dense "healthy" food and have them eat 2400 calories of McDonald's food for a few months and see what happens to their blood test results?
What's your conclusion?
For anyone thinking an exclusive diet of McDonald's food is good for you please message me with your social security number, credit card and bank account numbers. I know an African price that wants to deposit 1 million dollars in your account by noon tomorrow.
Except there's a guy here who's holding a million dollars (his blood work improved) telling everyone the instructions for getting it from the African prince, while saying he is not endorsing giving out the SSN to an African prince, just that it can be done.
Also, instead of ominous, unidentified harm, can you name explicitly something about McDonald's food that will cause an explicit health effect?
Here are a few articles:
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/statistics-health-risks-eating-fast-food-3290.html
http://www.healthline.com/health/fast-food-effects-on-body
The first article talks about risks that were specifically eliminated in this individual's case (his weight went down, his blood work improved). The second has lots of words like "suggest" and "may."
Do you really think this individual is worse off than he was before beginning his experiment?
Hmm, several studies by drs, in large groups, over several years. Verifying pretty much what we all see each day.
One guy's, on McDonald's payroll, personal testimony on how he had a positive health outcome, in a few months.
Whom to trust, what to believe...
Doesn't matter who endorses him, the science is the science. Follow the money reasoning is a poor heuristic often applied when people want to argue against the science but don't actually understand it.
I am pretty sure that there are very few people on this forum who understand science as well as I do, so you are not talking about me
If the point of the experiment was to show that eating less calories results in weight loss, yes, this was of course a valid point. No one on their right mind would argue with this.
If the point was to show that no longer being obese will result in improved health, again, it is nothing to debate about.
But what will the average person with poor eating habits get out of the whole thing? Something like the title of this thread. That eating at McDonalds daily can actually be good for you.
A conclusion associated with the brand, based on a sort term, not scientifically proven, experiment, of one man, over a sort period, with carefully planning choices. So, no, I do not think this is science. It is advertisement disguised as science. It could also have been a very good example to teach kids what a scientific study should not look like, especially when it comes to conclusions. But science, it is not.
If your immediate interest in an experiment is who funded it, rather than methodology, I can't say your logic is sound. It is starting off with looking for an ad hominem.
Also, if you want to argue over that to preserve a pre-existing bias against the conclusion, rather than discuss methodological problems to say why you can not endorse the conclusion, I can't say the logic is sound.
So instead of tone policing it as an advertisement, can you use your scientific skills to explain what was methodologically unsound in their experiment?
I can open. My first complaint is number of subjects, and the failure to have a control experiment. I also accept those as common limitations in human dietary studies.
What I do enjoy is that the daily log and discussion with his students assures a high degree of compliance, which is usually a huge factor in nutrition studies.0 -
Pah. "Supersize me" was bad science too. Shameless populist pap.0
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Soopatt I love you. You are spot on! I have said this for a long time. I live where people are snobby about their food yet the line at my nearest McDonalds is always full, inside & out.0
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One thing no one has mentioned is the environmental impact of the kind of intensive cattle farming needed by macdonalds. Eat local, eat in season!0
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Not much in season in January.
(Edit: Off-topic, though, so probably best for another thread. Same with the environmental stuff.)0 -
gaelicstorm26 wrote: »Just popping in to say that I found this really interesting. I hadn't seen this before but I enjoy that a teacher really went big to get his students to understand that you can live a normal life (which for many of us includes fast food occasionally) and still make smart choices. By planning and logging meals ahead of time you can make room for the foods you love and want. I love that the focus here is on personal responsibility instead of demonizing fast food and blaming McDonalds for "making us fat". Love it.
Yep. What a lot of people in this thread missed (maybe they never had a great science teacher who taught them about critical thinking!) is that what he wanted to do was teach his students how to take personal responsibility to think through their choices - and that's a skill that will serve them well regardless of where they choose to eat.
I am not really sure how this has anything to do with McDonalds. If he wanted to teach about responsibility (which is NOT part of a science class btw) he could have found hundreds of other examples. If he wanted to make it about nutrition, or plain and simple calories, he could have again made the same experiment by asking the students to help him make up a more generic plan, or even a junk-food based plan not tied ot a specific brand. The whole thing revolving around McDonalds and ending up with a video McDonalds are using to promote their products and as a counter-argument to Supersize Me, I am not sure this is really promoting anything other than McDonalds. My first thought when I saw this was "How much did he get out of it?". If the students did not ask themselves first the same question when the whole thing was planned, I think the lesson in critical thinking in this school needs definitely to be taught again
But the fact that he chose a universally recognizable, and largely standardized "brand" in McDonalds is part of what makes this resonate so much, with his students, and with the average person. Is it the most rigorous scientific experiment ever? No, of course not. But if you open this up to all foods that are available in the world and just let students build a daily meal plan for him out of any items (processed/unprocessed, homemade/commercially available) etc - there would be too many variables, it would be difficult to track the direct impacts, and likely not have the "aha" factor that gets people to open the link in the first place. He wasn't paid by McDonalds at the time of the experiment. That came later. If he just filmed a video of him working with students on building a meal plan from any food they could think of, how many views do you think he would get on YouTube? How many minds do you think he would change about the ability to eat a balanced diet, lose weight, and improve your health markers simply by planning ahead?
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hamlet1222 wrote: »One thing no one has mentioned is the environmental impact of the kind of intensive cattle farming needed by macdonalds. Eat local, eat in season!
Why would this be relevant to a thread like this?0 -
I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
One could conceivably eat a diet that was nothing but egg whites/whole eggs, mixed fruit, walnuts, milk, grilled chicken, garden salads, yogurt, and fresh vegetables with food mcdonalds offers.
Even then, SOME fatty meat and vegetable oils on potatoes is still not bad in the overall context of the diet.
Sure, those aren't the stereotypical choices, but they are there.
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I like this post because I think that examples like these start to strip away at some of the excuses that are common out there when people aren't quite ready to lose weight. "Oh I can't lose weight, I like McDonald's too much," or "I'm on the road and have to eat fast food," or whatever it is. Seeing that it's possible to lose weight while fitting in or even surviving on foods that are traditionally seen as the farthest thing from diet food can help newbies to the diet and fitness world see that it's not just salads and chicken breast all the time. You can lose weight while working with whatever foods are available to you, even if it's fast food.0
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I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
One could conceivably eat a diet that was nothing but egg whites/whole eggs, mixed fruit, walnuts, milk, grilled chicken, garden salads, yogurt, and fresh vegetables with food mcdonalds offers.
Even then, SOME fatty meat and vegetable oils on potatoes is still not bad in the overall context of the diet.
Sure, those aren't the stereotypical choices, but they are there.
Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.0 -
bluefish86 wrote: »I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
One could conceivably eat a diet that was nothing but egg whites/whole eggs, mixed fruit, walnuts, milk, grilled chicken, garden salads, yogurt, and fresh vegetables with food mcdonalds offers.
Even then, SOME fatty meat and vegetable oils on potatoes is still not bad in the overall context of the diet.
Sure, those aren't the stereotypical choices, but they are there.
Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
I agree most don't go for those items, but to blanket ALL McDonalds food as crap is being ignorant/dense IMO.0 -
bluefish86 wrote: »I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
One could conceivably eat a diet that was nothing but egg whites/whole eggs, mixed fruit, walnuts, milk, grilled chicken, garden salads, yogurt, and fresh vegetables with food mcdonalds offers.
Even then, SOME fatty meat and vegetable oils on potatoes is still not bad in the overall context of the diet.
Sure, those aren't the stereotypical choices, but they are there.
Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
Lots of people go to McD's because they are on the road or otherwise out and about. For those people, being aware of better alternatives at McD's and not just being able to tell themselves "oh, well, couldn't help it, might as well have some large fries and a Big Mac" is likely helpful.0 -
I get a chicken sandwich with no mayo and an extra patty a LOT there...0
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bluefish86 wrote: »I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
One could conceivably eat a diet that was nothing but egg whites/whole eggs, mixed fruit, walnuts, milk, grilled chicken, garden salads, yogurt, and fresh vegetables with food mcdonalds offers.
Even then, SOME fatty meat and vegetable oils on potatoes is still not bad in the overall context of the diet.
Sure, those aren't the stereotypical choices, but they are there.
Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
So what? When I go to McD's (or any other fast food joint), I eat what I want and work it into my calorie goals. If that's a Big Mac, so be it. If it's a parfait, that's fine, too. That's the whole point of this "experiment," to show that you can meet your nutritional needs while eating a wide variety of McDonald's offerings.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »
especially now with the customization. oh so good. chiabatta, fresh burger, cheddar cheese, bacon, lettuce, and whatever sauce you can want
i like mcdonalds. i like their salads, i like their mcchickens. they have decent oatmeal and i like their coffee.
and don't get me started on the heaven that is a mcgriddle
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So what? When I go to McD's (or any other fast food joint), I eat what I want and work it into my calorie goals. If that's a Big Mac, so be it. If it's a parfait, that's fine, too. That's the whole point of this "experiment," to show that you can meet your nutritional needs while eating a wide variety of McDonald's offerings.
Yeah, but you missed what he was responding to.
John asked:I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
And Bluefish correctly noted:Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
You are absolutely right that if you understand calorie goals you can eat anything at McDonald's. But most people don't go to McDonald's with a calorie goal in mind. They go with a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fries, large soda, and a shake in mind as one of the 2-3 meals of the day, when that one meal consumes 75% or more of the day's calories.
You'll be hard pressed to fit any of the top value meal choices into a day's calorie limit unless you eat hardly anything else for the day. More so if you get a non-diet soda and desert.
If you get a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fry, a large Coke, and a large chocholate milk shake, you will consume 2,150 calories. That could be an entire daily allotment of calories for one meal. It's going to be hard to work that in to your calorie goals, unless you eat nothing else that day.
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maillemaker wrote: »So what? When I go to McD's (or any other fast food joint), I eat what I want and work it into my calorie goals. If that's a Big Mac, so be it. If it's a parfait, that's fine, too. That's the whole point of this "experiment," to show that you can meet your nutritional needs while eating a wide variety of McDonald's offerings.
Yeah, but you missed what he was responding to.
John asked:I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
And Bluefish correctly noted:Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
You are absolutely right that if you understand calorie goals you can eat anything at McDonald's. But most people don't go to McDonald's with a calorie goal in mind. They go with a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fries, large soda, and a shake in mind as one of the 2-3 meals of the day, when that one meal consumes 75% or more of the day's calories.
You'll be hard pressed to fit any of the top value meal choices into a day's calorie limit unless you eat hardly anything else for the day. More so if you get a non-diet soda and desert.
If you get a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fry, a large Coke, and a large chocholate milk shake, you will consume 2,150 calories. That could be an entire daily allotment of calories for one meal. It's going to be hard to work that in to your calorie goals, unless you eat nothing else that day.
yeah, we're arguing apples and oranges.
I'm saying one can make smart choices, and y'all are saying most go in there for the treats.
We're both right in the context we're putting it in. A typical value meal (burger, medium fries, and I'd even give you a diet soda vs. regular) is almost impossible to "correct" during a 24 hr. period within IIFYM principals for a "typical" weight woman.0 -
maillemaker wrote: »If you get a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fry, a large Coke, and a large chocholate milk shake, you will consume 2,150 calories. That could be an entire daily allotment of calories for one meal. It's going to be hard to work that in to your calorie goals, unless you eat nothing else that day.
You are biasing it by your choices too. I don't think I've ever seen someone order a soda and a shake, and most adults I know get diet (and, yeah, don't eat at McD's that regularly).
Anyway, I would guess that it's at least as common to get something like the QPw/C and medium fries, plus a diet soda, and that's a not great but not that tough to deal with for many 870.
But again I'm not so sure most people go to McD's because they are dying for a particular meal vs. because it's there and convenient. So knowing to think about better options and calories is a good start. NOT being able to say "I'm at McD's, guess I'm going to have to eat over 2000 calories" is an even better thing.0 -
maillemaker wrote: »So what? When I go to McD's (or any other fast food joint), I eat what I want and work it into my calorie goals. If that's a Big Mac, so be it. If it's a parfait, that's fine, too. That's the whole point of this "experiment," to show that you can meet your nutritional needs while eating a wide variety of McDonald's offerings.
Yeah, but you missed what he was responding to.
John asked:I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
And Bluefish correctly noted:Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
You are absolutely right that if you understand calorie goals you can eat anything at McDonald's. But most people don't go to McDonald's with a calorie goal in mind. They go with a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fries, large soda, and a shake in mind as one of the 2-3 meals of the day, when that one meal consumes 75% or more of the day's calories.
You'll be hard pressed to fit any of the top value meal choices into a day's calorie limit unless you eat hardly anything else for the day. More so if you get a non-diet soda and desert.
If you get a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fry, a large Coke, and a large chocholate milk shake, you will consume 2,150 calories. That could be an entire daily allotment of calories for one meal. It's going to be hard to work that in to your calorie goals, unless you eat nothing else that day.
yeah, we're arguing apples and oranges.
I'm saying one can make smart choices, and y'all are saying most go in there for the treats.
We're both right in the context we're putting it in. A typical value meal (burger, medium fries, and I'd even give you a diet soda vs. regular) is almost impossible to "correct" during a 24 hr. period within IIFYM principals for a "typical" weight woman.
A cheeseburger and medium fries would have 678 calories. I'm maintaining and I have meals that contain that many calories regularly. If it was a Quarter Pounder instead of a cheeseburger, it would be 918 calories -- more challenging to fit it, but certainly doable.0 -
maillemaker wrote: »So what? When I go to McD's (or any other fast food joint), I eat what I want and work it into my calorie goals. If that's a Big Mac, so be it. If it's a parfait, that's fine, too. That's the whole point of this "experiment," to show that you can meet your nutritional needs while eating a wide variety of McDonald's offerings.
Yeah, but you missed what he was responding to.
John asked:I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
And Bluefish correctly noted:Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
You are absolutely right that if you understand calorie goals you can eat anything at McDonald's. But most people don't go to McDonald's with a calorie goal in mind. They go with a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fries, large soda, and a shake in mind as one of the 2-3 meals of the day, when that one meal consumes 75% or more of the day's calories.
You'll be hard pressed to fit any of the top value meal choices into a day's calorie limit unless you eat hardly anything else for the day. More so if you get a non-diet soda and desert.
If you get a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fry, a large Coke, and a large chocholate milk shake, you will consume 2,150 calories. That could be an entire daily allotment of calories for one meal. It's going to be hard to work that in to your calorie goals, unless you eat nothing else that day.
yeah, we're arguing apples and oranges.
I'm saying one can make smart choices, and y'all are saying most go in there for the treats.
We're both right in the context we're putting it in. A typical value meal (burger, medium fries, and I'd even give you a diet soda vs. regular) is almost impossible to "correct" during a 24 hr. period within IIFYM principals for a "typical" weight woman.
Honestly, I'd say McDonalds is some of the top tier of this too - their web site lets you calculate calories for any added or subtracted item.
Compare that with Whole Foods, supposedly a bastion of clean, healthy foods. Their hot bar doesn't publish half their stuff, or has it wrong (0 calorie foods? Nope) and last I looked, their website didn't want to go into details about any of the missing things either. I'll admit, despite my general distaste, my cousin working there has lead me to eat at their pizzaria a few times - I have no honest clue how many calories were in my items. I have MFP's best guess from who knows where numbers, and I don't honestly trust them.
Isn't it a little odd that McDonalds is really forward and open about their ingredients and nutrition but gets vilified, but Whole Foods avoids reporting anything they can get away with, but they're the darling of healthy eaters?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »maillemaker wrote: »So what? When I go to McD's (or any other fast food joint), I eat what I want and work it into my calorie goals. If that's a Big Mac, so be it. If it's a parfait, that's fine, too. That's the whole point of this "experiment," to show that you can meet your nutritional needs while eating a wide variety of McDonald's offerings.
Yeah, but you missed what he was responding to.
John asked:I STILL can't get over people who think that the food HAS to be burgers and fries just because it is McDonalds.
And Bluefish correctly noted:Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
You are absolutely right that if you understand calorie goals you can eat anything at McDonald's. But most people don't go to McDonald's with a calorie goal in mind. They go with a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fries, large soda, and a shake in mind as one of the 2-3 meals of the day, when that one meal consumes 75% or more of the day's calories.
You'll be hard pressed to fit any of the top value meal choices into a day's calorie limit unless you eat hardly anything else for the day. More so if you get a non-diet soda and desert.
If you get a Quarter Pounder with cheese, a large fry, a large Coke, and a large chocholate milk shake, you will consume 2,150 calories. That could be an entire daily allotment of calories for one meal. It's going to be hard to work that in to your calorie goals, unless you eat nothing else that day.
yeah, we're arguing apples and oranges.
I'm saying one can make smart choices, and y'all are saying most go in there for the treats.
We're both right in the context we're putting it in. A typical value meal (burger, medium fries, and I'd even give you a diet soda vs. regular) is almost impossible to "correct" during a 24 hr. period within IIFYM principals for a "typical" weight woman.
A cheeseburger and medium fries would have 678 calories. I'm maintaining and I have meals that contain that many calories regularly. If it was a Quarter Pounder instead of a cheeseburger, it would be 918 calories -- more challenging to fit it, but certainly doable.
I had an "almost" in there to couch that statement 0 -
Wasn't there also a documentary called super size? My son watched it in class and has never eaten at McDonalds again. I've never seen either do have no personal opinion but at 15 he still will not eat it willingly. And he does not have to worry about weight at all.0
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superhockeymom wrote: »Wasn't there also a documentary called super size? My son watched it in class and has never eaten at McDonalds again. I've never seen either do have no personal opinion but at 15 he still will not eat it willingly. And he does not have to worry about weight at all.
He kind of took kind of an ignorantly approached stereotype and ran with it, but the hyperbole led to a lot of positive changes with how fast food nutrition is communicated...(almost like internet "trolls" are often "useful" for bringing out meaningful discussion on topics).0 -
I can get two Quarter Pounders with cheese, no bun or ketchup, and an unsweet tea for 680... 17.5% of my daily total.
Admittedly, the In-n-Out double-double protein style is easier to handle and only 527 calories, but not as filling.0 -
superhockeymom wrote: »Wasn't there also a documentary called super size? My son watched it in class and has never eaten at McDonalds again. I've never seen either do have no personal opinion but at 15 he still will not eat it willingly. And he does not have to worry about weight at all.
It's called SuperSize Me. I was taken in by it, too, when it first came out. But he stopped most of his daily exercise, took taxis everywhere, and then chose higher calorie options to see if he would gain weight. Guess what? He did. Once you see past the cool graphics and cherrypicked facts, it's really not a very good example.0 -
Most documentary's are biased toward whatever they are trying to prove. Many don't use equal time to counter whatever claims they've set out to prove.superhockeymom wrote: »Wasn't there also a documentary called super size? My son watched it in class and has never eaten at McDonalds again. I've never seen either do have no personal opinion but at 15 he still will not eat it willingly. And he does not have to worry about weight at all.
One could go out and show the setbacks and disadvantages of exercising with weights with weight loss. Does that legitimately prove that exercising with weights is bad for weight loss?
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bluefish86 wrote: »
Let's be real... most people don't go to McDonald's for their salad menu.
I usually go for a grilled chicken wrap if that's where I am going. But I gotta say, if my routine included 45 minutes of exercise 5 days a week, I'd probably not have much problems fitting that double cheeseburger and fries into my day's count. Probably an occasional apple pie, too.
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does it say in there anywhere? does he eat his exercise calories back? or just straight 2000 cals?0
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diannethegeek wrote: »superhockeymom wrote: »Wasn't there also a documentary called super size? My son watched it in class and has never eaten at McDonalds again. I've never seen either do have no personal opinion but at 15 he still will not eat it willingly. And he does not have to worry about weight at all.
It's called SuperSize Me. I was taken in by it, too, when it first came out. But he stopped most of his daily exercise, took taxis everywhere, and then chose higher calorie options to see if he would gain weight. Guess what? He did. Once you see past the cool graphics and cherrypicked facts, it's really not a very good example.
And he never provided documentation for the weight gain.
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