October 2015 Running Challenge

7lenny7 wrote: »

HealthyFocused715 wrote: »

So when you go to the homepage it says: "jog.fm helps you find the perfect music for your run...and your walk and your ride" and then it has a drop-down menu for: "my mile time is ????". You select your time and hit Go and it will generate a list of songs that are best for that pace. Does that make sense? So forever I was a 10:00 minute miler so I made a 9:00 minute miler playlist. If I were to run to the beat, I would be running 9:00 minute miles. It does allow you to search via BPM's for those of you looking for 180s. 10:00 minute miles are 150 BPMs.

@HealthyFocused715, there are two stride variables that determine your pace...stride cadence (BPM) and stride length.

You could hold your stride cadence constant and vary your stride length, you hold your stride length constant and vary your cadence, or some combination of the two. What you are doing is varying cadence to try to maintain a pace. I used to do this exact thing as well (if you look through the May 2015 challenge thread I posted many links to find music of certain beats).

What I've come to learn is that some people some where did a study and found that the most efficient stride cadence is 180, regardless of your height or inseam. To run faster you increase your stride length but maintain the same cadence. To run slower you reduce your stride length.

While I know that this is true I have one heck of a time actually putting this into practice but as my speed increases, I'm getting closer. I finally decided to ignore my cadence for the moment as I work on other aspects of my running but I plan to return to it at some point.

My point is, while varying the BPM of you music may help you maintain a target pace, eventually you want to get to the point where your cadence is always 180 BPM regardless of your pace.

If you already have a music service (I use Google Music) search for whatever BPM you're looking for and you will find plenty of playlists and even albums catering to that cadence. When I was listening to music on the run, I'd then take the songs I liked and create my own playlist. No need to pay for another service unless you just find that easier. Maybe jogfm is free, I have no idea. You call also search the web for "180 BPM playlist" and find plenty. Add a genre qualifier if you'd like to target the music you prefer.

here's a trip...I found a military cadence playlist (160 BPM) and for a few runs ran to a drill instructor barking out cadences. I kept thinking about Bill Murray in Stripes and would crack up though, so I quit.

I didn't realized that you answered this when I answered it. But yeah. Spot on!

LOL @ the Stripes reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5yhKQo3dc



Then you got Full Metal Jacket.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEiWXz3BkpA

kareF wrote: »

My left leg/hip is a little tight.. I think it has something to do with my doing strength exercises on Tuesday! Have learnt my lesson.. Won't be doing strength training the day before a big run again! lol I tried the c25k originally when I first started running though found the constant stopping/starting made my shin splints worse.. That and my form wasn't too great either

@7lenny7 and @Stoshew71 I'm going to see if I can add a 4th running day each week. It won't be a very long run, maybe 3-4km on the same day each week so I'm not far from home. Would this be okay to keep the same distance while upping my distance on the other 3 days? Or should I try and up distance on this day also? At the moment I would be stuck for only a few km on the 4th day.. Or should I not worry about it just yet? At the moment I run:

Saturdays 8-10k
Sundays 5-6k
Mondays (possible 4th day) 3-4k
Wednesdays 8-10k (aiming to up distance slowly on this day)

Does that sound okay?

First- the weights to running thing. Here's a RW link to a study on just this:
http://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/how-best-to-combine-strength-training-and-running


The key part was:

"First, Doma advises, don't schedule a hard running workout later in the day of a weight session. "Running at maximal effort is impaired six hours [after] lower-extremity resistance training, and therefore trained to moderately trained runners will need more than that to recover for running sessions set at high intensities," he says.

In addition, "running at maximal effort is still impaired 24 hours after lower-extremity resistance training," Doma says. "Therefore, in the case of trained and moderately trained runners undertaking high-intensity running sessions after lower-extremity resistance training, they may need more than one day to recover."

Second, Doma found that running performance at lower intensities was unaffected by the weight workouts. "Runners could undertake strength training and running sessions on the same day six hours apart as long as the running session is set at submaximal intensities," Doma says.

If possible, Doma says, try to arrange your schedule so that on days that you run and lift, running comes first.

"I found that lower-extremity resistance training performed six hours prior to running sessions at moderate to high intensities cause carryover effects of fatigue the next day to a greater extent than the reverse sequence," he says. "Therefore, if undertaking lower-extremity resistance training and running sessions on the same day, it is best to undertake a running session before a strength-training session, for example, running in the morning before work and lower-extremity resistance training in the evening after work."

In this scenario, it would make sense to have that morning run be one of your harder workouts of the week. Your workout the following day would then be an easy recovery run, which would be warranted even without the evening lifting, but is that much more called for on the basis of Doma's research. This sequence would also mesh with many coaches' recommendation to have great discrepancy between your hard and easy days, so that you can better recover from your toughest workouts, instead of including hard elements of non-running training on your easy running days."




So then your next question:

Your question is related to adding a 4th day while increasing mileage.

You wrote:
Saturdays 8-10k
Sundays 5-6k
Mondays (possible 4th day) 3-4k
Wednesdays 8-10k (aiming to up distance slowly on this day)


So currently you run (taking the maximum of each day) 10+6+10=26 km's then you want to add a 4th day of 4 km.

So the first thing I noticed is you currently run 2 days in a row (Sat and Sun) then rest on Monday and Tue, run on Wed, then rest again Thur and Fri. But then you want to add a 4th day in so that you are running 3 days in a row, taking a rest day, run again, then take 2 more rest days in a row?
I am not sure why you want to do it that way? Is it because of your schedule?

And it also looks like you want to up your Wednesdays? Does Wed work best for your schedule? Usually mine is Saturday morning for my long run because I don't have to worry about getting ready for work. It's the day I have the most time. M-F I have work and Sundays are church. So I have the most time on Saturdays. I don't know what your schedule is like so i don't know the best way to arrange your runs to fit with your schedule. But I wouldn't suggest running 4 days in a row and then have these 2 day in a row rest periods twice in the week. Ideally you want to spread the workouts better. Now if your schedule makes you run that way, then that is a whole different issue altogether.

Regardless of schedule, let's look at how you are going to add the distance. Let's start with the 10% Rule and see how that works for you. If it seems too easy, you may be able to increase faster, if the increased mileage makes you feel sore for more than 2 days (assuming you have a rest day after each workout) then maybe 10% is too aggressive.

So the first time you add the fourth day, I would run your minimums. So You have Sat 8km, Sun 5km, Mon 3 km, Wed 8 km. That is a weekly mileage of 24 kms. The longest run is 8 km's (twice) which is 33% of your weekly mileage. Perfect. I just hate that you run 4 days in a row.

The following week you can increase any combination of your runs by 2.5 km's (2.4 is 10% but the extra .1 km is negligable and makes it easier to calculate. I will take the worst case scenario. You run 10.5 km on Wed.

Sat 8, Sun 5, M 3, Wed 10.5 = 26.5 km weekly. Longest run is 10.5 km. The long run comes very close to 40% of your weekly mileage. So we are increasing too aggressive on Wed.

BTW I calculated that by (10.5 * 100) / 26.5 = 39.62264.... which is close to 40%.
That number should fall between 25-35%


So let's do the next worst thing. Add 2 km's on Wed and add .5 to Sat.

Sat 8.5, Sun, 5, M 3, Wed 10 = 26.5 weekly km's. Longest is 10 km.
(10 * 100) / 26.5 = ~37.7% Still needs to be smaller on Wed. So let's *kitten* 1.5 to Wed and 1 to Sat

Sat 9, Sun, 5, M 3, Wed 9.5 should still be 26.5 for the week. Longest is now 9.5.
(9.5 * 100) / 26.5 = ~35.8% close enough. You should be fine if you did that.

Then the next week add 10%. 2.65 km's. errr I hate these decimals, so you can just say add another 2.5 km's. And you do it all again. For logistics I would just spread this all out but you can try and work it anyway that best fits your schedule.

Example:

Add 1 km to Sat and 1 km Sun and .5 to Wed
Sat 10, Sun 6 km, M 3, Wed 10 = 29 km's for the week. Longest is 10 (twice)
(10 * 100) / 29 = ~34.5% Perfect!

You keep adding mileage, errr.... km's that way. I just don't recommend the 4 day in a row just yet. I can foresee that causing problems. And, as you are increasing, all your days are easy paced. You must be able to hold a coversation with a running buddy (or to yourself). Sing or chant the ABC's out loud if you have to just to make sure you are keeping the right pace. If chanting, running, and breathing becomes too hard to do, then slow the pace down.



If you need more help with this, just let me know what your schedule is like (busy bad days, days you have more time to dedicate, days I would want to lift and run on, ect).

9voice9 wrote: »

Stoshew71 wrote: »

You must be able to hold a conversation with a running buddy (or to yourself). Sing or chant the ABC's out loud if you have to just to make sure you are keeping the right pace. If chanting, running, and breathing becomes too hard to do, then slow the pace down.

Going back to the cadence/pace discussion, if I've worked my way up to the 180 BPM/SPM cadence, then we'd say "decrease the stride length" as opposed to "slow the pace," right? I'm just not sure that I can do a conversation at 180....

or does 180 represent the tempo run?

http://running.competitor.com/2014/06/training/running-101-the-8-basic-types-of-runs_7984

Still working on absorbing technique and the mental side of this process....

Yes, you would slow the pace down by decreasing the stride length (if cadence is maintained).
The other way you could look at it is decreasing the intensity off your pushoff foot (the one moving behind your body) which means less propulsion forward and thus shorter stride length. In the beginning, maintaining a higher cadance will seem unatural, so you may accidently lower your cadence when you decrease pace. But the goal is to maintain cadence and just shorten your stride.

Date Miles today. Miles for October

10/1 6.6 miles - 6.6
10/2 6.75 miles - 13.35
10/3 22.1 miles - 35.45
10/4 REST DAY
10/5 10.75 miles - 46.2
10/6 10.5 miles - 56.7
10/7 6.6 miles - 63.3
10/8 10 miles - 73.3
10/9 6.75 miles - 80.05
10/10 3.88 miles - 83.93 <<< Warrior Dash
10/11 REST DAY
10/12 10.25 miles - 94.18
10/13 10.5 miles - 104.68
10/14 6.75 miles - 111.43
10/15 10.5 miles - 121.93
10/16 5.75 miles - 127.68
10/17 20 miles - 147.68
10/18 REST DAY
10/19 10.5 miles - 158.18
10/20 11 miles - 169.18
10/21 6.65 miles - 175.83
10/22 11 miles - 186.83
10/23 5.79 miles - 192.62
10/24 20 miles - 212.62
10/25 REST DAY
10/26 REST DAY
10/27 11 miles - 223.62
10/28 4 miles - 227.62 << Treadmill & Recovery Day
10/29 10.75 miles - 238.37



Almost forgot to log my run from this morning. Too busy commenting on everyone's posts. LOL

Panera Day: 10.75 miles in 1:28:43 - 1 mi warmup (8:12) 3@~tempo(6:52,7:10,7:24) 4@steady state (7:38,7:42, 7:44, 8:08) Recovery and 8x30 sec strides plus c/d (9:40, 10:00, 7:39(.75 mi))