Medical Conditions Which Affect Weight: Separating Fact From Fiction
Replies
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saintwreck wrote: »I noticed the vast majority of contributors have had over a thousand posts... yo'all likely know what those initials mean... CICO is one I don't. Oh for what it's worth I'm type 2 diabetic... that's why I landed here
CICO = calories in/calories out, or the basic equation for losing weight.0 -
Wow.....I had SO much hope for this thread.
It is great that @PeachyCarol and other contributors with medical issues on MFP have the chance to talk about their experiences with various medical conditions. So here's my story.
My experience with illness is quite varied....in 1997 weighing in at 126 kgs I had an accident which led to the development of RSD a chronic pain illness.....(my highest weight was achieved prior to this, starting in 1991 with a combination of anti-psychotics/anti-depressants and no idea about CI-CO - I became a walking carb eating machine and I was miserable).
The pain caused by the RSD was not helped by surgery or mahoosive amounts of opiates prescribed.... so I started walking....pain lessened, stopped the mental health meds. that I had wrongly been prescribed (this is my experience) and went very deeply, for years into counselling. Kept losing weight......
I hovered around the overweight mark for a LONG time.....changed my eating patterns and found that I had ulcerative colitis that was helped with dropping gluten....more weight gone due to lower calories.
Fast forward to 2010 I was within spitting distance of where I wanted to be weight wise....I had continued to walk extensively and then added in harder walks out in the bush etc.
Joined MFP 2011 - Ah ha enlightenment and goal weight. Damn 2011 to very early 2013 we pretty good - my pain was reasonably stable and so was my weight approx 55 kgs.
By Christmas 2012 I noticed my fatigue levels were increasing and my weight was rapidly decreasing.....
I thought that I 'needed' to harden up, walk more (8 hours anyone
) and add in more challenging exercise....didn't help, upped the calories, changed the macro's etc etc. My blood work started coming back wrong.....I eventually found out I had Lupus and looking back blood tests showed positive markers 3 years previously and it wasn't followed up....That sucked.
OK - so now at my lowest weight I was 47 kgs at 5' 5". I faced steroids and plenty of them, Plaquenil and Oh we might throw in some drugs that are basically low dose Chemo' to see if that helps....
Straight away I put on around 3 kgs I think water weight....I was terribly worried that I would 'Blossom' again due to all the hype around steroids but I have stayed very mindful and kept logging religiously and that weight gain didn't occur. I still take a mod. does of steroid, Plaquenil and now 2500 mg Mycophenolate (immune suppressant).....all these are reported to increase weight.
The struggles are very real though with weight fluctuations (fluid retention, ascites and of course flare-ups)..... trying to figure out what is the 'best' way of eating, keeping strong and in best form is difficult for someone like me but not impossible. Nothing is impossible.
I have multiple sensitivities and the Lupus and extra burden of the vasculitis issues causing severe migraines for one have been a trial.....sadly, the fatigue is a killer and I am VERY UV sensitive.....without my walking I was lost for a long time and spent many inactive hours and days to the point where I have ended up with osteoporosis and broke my back last year. This happened SO quickly.....I am very thankful that I still kept up with my form of strength training on my better days.....otherwise the outcome...well it's not pretty.
Now my focus is on continuing strength training, I work with an exercise physiologist and have a personalised programme that I do religiously....it helps both mentally and physically. I meditate and this helps me with my stress levels and the rotten insomnia.
TL:DR.....Illness sucks. Everyone is different and has their own version of sucky. In the end though you need to deal with it. Come to terms with it, learn to embrace it, own it and make it your B!TCH.....seriously.
Learn to nurture yourself but don't lie to yourself either. Draw the line between your personal responsibility to your own best health and where your illness and its effects upon you come into play..... work against the odds of your condition.....try never to give in, it certainly OK and natural to feel like IDGAF everyone does....but you really need to learn the skill of regrouping and starting over..... eat well, eat appropriately and NEVER give up on finding your sweet spot.
All the best to everyone.
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We don't have medical knowledge. We don't have medical experience.PeachyCarol wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »I understand that conditions don't directly affect significant weight gain, but a lot of conditions disrupt hormones and disrupt normal regulation of your body. As some of you have stated this can lead to increased appetite. It is not really fair in my opinion to say it is only about CICO. When your appetite is increased and you don't feel good unless you satisfy your appetite, then you have to admit that you are at a disadvantage and your quality of life is greatly diminished than compared to people who can maintain their weight without their body fighting against them.
I went from being skinny with normal eating habits to randomly developing endocrine problems which THEN led to my weight gain. I know the difference of having a normal appetite vs what happens with endocrine problems. It isn't just a "control your appetite" thing, I would literally feel not good if I didn't eat more.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is. I also don't think anyone who has endocrine problems leaves them untreated. When you have symptoms like that, isn't it time to see a doctor?
An untreated medical condition is a cause for medical intervention. However, once it's under control?
Let's discuss that a bit more. What medical condition, once correctly treated, do any of you with good medical knowledge know of that affects weight loss?
Well, maybe someone does. If someone is a doctor, please speak up.
Otherwise, we cannot speak from a medical perspective. I realize it seems a little picky to point out. It's a really fine line. But a distinction should be made.
Doctors have medical opinions. We do not.
There are people in the medical profession on this forum. Posting in this thread, even.0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.0 -
mysteps2beauty wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.
What she's saying is that the depo itself did not cause the gain. The relationship is indirect: depo can cause increase in appetite which causes one to overeat. The overeating is not the fault of the medication but rather the person who didn't control the appetite.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »
We don't have medical knowledge. We don't have medical experience.PeachyCarol wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »I understand that conditions don't directly affect significant weight gain, but a lot of conditions disrupt hormones and disrupt normal regulation of your body. As some of you have stated this can lead to increased appetite. It is not really fair in my opinion to say it is only about CICO. When your appetite is increased and you don't feel good unless you satisfy your appetite, then you have to admit that you are at a disadvantage and your quality of life is greatly diminished than compared to people who can maintain their weight without their body fighting against them.
I went from being skinny with normal eating habits to randomly developing endocrine problems which THEN led to my weight gain. I know the difference of having a normal appetite vs what happens with endocrine problems. It isn't just a "control your appetite" thing, I would literally feel not good if I didn't eat more.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is. I also don't think anyone who has endocrine problems leaves them untreated. When you have symptoms like that, isn't it time to see a doctor?
An untreated medical condition is a cause for medical intervention. However, once it's under control?
Let's discuss that a bit more. What medical condition, once correctly treated, do any of you with good medical knowledge know of that affects weight loss?
Well, maybe someone does. If someone is a doctor, please speak up.
Otherwise, we cannot speak from a medical perspective. I realize it seems a little picky to point out. It's a really fine line. But a distinction should be made.
Doctors have medical opinions. We do not.
There are people in the medical profession on this forum. Posting in this thread, even.
But their expertise is immediately discounted. because they don't have the "md" after their name. Which is sad.0 -
mysteps2beauty wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.
Breastfeeding is no guarantee for weight loss. Myself and many other women did not drop weight while nursing.0 -
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saintwreck wrote: »I noticed the vast majority of contributors have had over a thousand posts... yo'all likely know what those initials mean... CICO is one I don't. Oh for what it's worth I'm type 2 diabetic... that's why I landed here
You poor soul.
CICO means "calories in, calories out." It is just an abbreviation that means that calories have a direct impact on your weight. If you want to gain, lose or maintain your weight, CICO applies to the process.
Frequently, people use it to mean "weight loss." You can get how it's being used from context, now that you know the phrase.
WOE - "way of eating."
WLS - "weight loss surgery"
That's all I can remember.
We really should type things like that out once a thread, lol. It's unfair to newbies.0 -
daniwilford wrote: »The first chronic condition I had that needed medication was anxiety based depression with PTSD. The disorders gave me the desire to gain weight. I began therapy which I continued for the better part of two decades. The medications for those psychological disordered had a side effect of insomnia, enter next medication. The weight gain and genetic predisposition added the third medication for cholesterol. Enter uterine cancer which led to removal of those female hormone producing ovaries, putting me into instant menopause in my early forties. The hormone shift complicated the psychological disorders, life complications added tons of stress and more over eating, less activity. At this point I was constantly, on some level suicidal. I stopped wearing seat belts and eat what ever I wanted because on some level, I wanted to die. In my late 40's I had 3 strokes, introduce two or more medications, one or two for high blood pressure and a variety of blood thinners. Immediately following the strokes I was paralyzed on my right side, I recovered most of the function. But being obese complicated my continued recovery of function, which complicated psychological disorders. I had to have my gallbladder removed. I also had carpel tunnel, sleep apnea, acid re-flux and a vitamin D deficiency. I was taking 6 prescription medications(4 of which had increased in dosage at least once since first prescribed) and two supplements daily to treat all my conditions. In March of this year, I was diagnosed with diabetes, and faced the prospect of taking yet another medication. My GP was concerned with all the medication I was taking and adding another. He challenged me to lose 20% of my body weight and see if that would eliminate the need for an added medication. I reached that goal in September and have kept going. I not only got my A1C down to normal range, thus avoiding the need for another medication, I got the go ahead to decrease the blood pressure medicine by half in July. Just last week my Doctor recommended I stop the cholesterol medication. I lost the weight by decreasing my CI and increasing CO. Despite having numerous chronic medical issues requiring medications, age, and menopause, my CI-CO=weight change with over 95% accuracy. To hear all the experts, I am an outlier, by having incredibly averagely predictable weight loss.
Amazing. What you've survived and been through! Thanks for sharing.0 -
HippySkoppy wrote: »
TL:DR.....Illness sucks. Everyone is different and has their own version of sucky. In the end though you need to deal with it. Come to terms with it, learn to embrace it, own it and make it your B!TCH.....seriously.
Learn to nurture yourself but don't lie to yourself either. Draw the line between your personal responsibility to your own best health and where your illness and its effects upon you come into play..... work against the odds of your condition.....try never to give in, it certainly OK and natural to feel like IDGAF everyone does....but you really need to learn the skill of regrouping and starting over..... eat well, eat appropriately and NEVER give up on finding your sweet spot.
All the best to everyone.
Excellent attitude. 0 -
HippySkoppy wrote: »Wow.....I had SO much hope for this thread.
It is great that @PeachyCarol and other contributors with medical issues on MFP have the chance to talk about their experiences with various medical conditions. So here's my story.
My experience with illness is quite varied....in 1997 weighing in at 126 kgs I had an accident which led to the development of RSD a chronic pain illness.....(my highest weight was achieved prior to this, starting in 1991 with a combination of anti-psychotics/anti-depressants and no idea about CI-CO - I became a walking carb eating machine and I was miserable).
The pain caused by the RSD was not helped by surgery or mahoosive amounts of opiates prescribed.... so I started walking....pain lessened, stopped the mental health meds. that I had wrongly been prescribed (this is my experience) and went very deeply, for years into counselling. Kept losing weight......
I hovered around the overweight mark for a LONG time.....changed my eating patterns and found that I had ulcerative colitis that was helped with dropping gluten....more weight gone due to lower calories.
Fast forward to 2010 I was within spitting distance of where I wanted to be weight wise....I had continued to walk extensively and then added in harder walks out in the bush etc.
Joined MFP 2011 - Ah ha enlightenment and goal weight. Damn 2011 to very early 2013 we pretty good - my pain was reasonably stable and so was my weight approx 55 kgs.
By Christmas 2012 I noticed my fatigue levels were increasing and my weight was rapidly decreasing.....
I thought that I 'needed' to harden up, walk more (8 hours anyone ) and add in more challenging exercise....didn't help, upped the calories, changed the macro's etc etc. My blood work started coming back wrong.....I eventually found out I had Lupus and looking back blood tests showed positive markers 3 years previously and it wasn't followed up....That sucked.
OK - so now at my lowest weight I was 47 kgs at 5' 5". I faced steroids and plenty of them, Plaquenil and Oh we might throw in some drugs that are basically low dose Chemo' to see if that helps....
Straight away I put on around 3 kgs I think water weight....I was terribly worried that I would 'Blossom' again due to all the hype around steroids but I have stayed very mindful and kept logging religiously and that weight gain didn't occur. I still take a mod. does of steroid, Plaquenil and now 2500 mg Mycophenolate (immune suppressant).....all these are reported to increase weight.
The struggles are very real though with weight fluctuations (fluid retention, ascites and of course flare-ups)..... trying to figure out what is the 'best' way of eating, keeping strong and in best form is difficult for someone like me but not impossible. Nothing is impossible.
I have multiple sensitivities and the Lupus and extra burden of the vasculitis issues causing severe migraines for one have been a trial.....sadly, the fatigue is a killer and I am VERY UV sensitive.....without my walking I was lost for a long time and spent many inactive hours and days to the point where I have ended up with osteoporosis and broke my back last year. This happened SO quickly.....I am very thankful that I still kept up with my form of strength training on my better days.....otherwise the outcome...well it's not pretty.
Now my focus is on continuing strength training, I work with an exercise physiologist and have a personalised programme that I do religiously....it helps both mentally and physically. I meditate and this helps me with my stress levels and the rotten insomnia.
TL:DR.....Illness sucks. Everyone is different and has their own version of sucky. In the end though you need to deal with it. Come to terms with it, learn to embrace it, own it and make it your B!TCH.....seriously.
Learn to nurture yourself but don't lie to yourself either. Draw the line between your personal responsibility to your own best health and where your illness and its effects upon you come into play..... work against the odds of your condition.....try never to give in, it certainly OK and natural to feel like IDGAF everyone does....but you really need to learn the skill of regrouping and starting over..... eat well, eat appropriately and NEVER give up on finding your sweet spot.
All the best to everyone.
Just about every "chronic" I know on my friend's list kicks serious butt because of an attitude like this.0 -
Doctors are in the medical profession. To most people, it makes no difference and the words can be used interchangeably. Medical, healthcare, whatever. But to those who are actually in healthcare, a distinction must be made. Otherwise, it could be argued that you're misrepresenting yourself as giving a medical opinion, which is not only unethical, but illegal.PeachyCarol wrote: »
We don't have medical knowledge. We don't have medical experience.PeachyCarol wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »I understand that conditions don't directly affect significant weight gain, but a lot of conditions disrupt hormones and disrupt normal regulation of your body. As some of you have stated this can lead to increased appetite. It is not really fair in my opinion to say it is only about CICO. When your appetite is increased and you don't feel good unless you satisfy your appetite, then you have to admit that you are at a disadvantage and your quality of life is greatly diminished than compared to people who can maintain their weight without their body fighting against them.
I went from being skinny with normal eating habits to randomly developing endocrine problems which THEN led to my weight gain. I know the difference of having a normal appetite vs what happens with endocrine problems. It isn't just a "control your appetite" thing, I would literally feel not good if I didn't eat more.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is. I also don't think anyone who has endocrine problems leaves them untreated. When you have symptoms like that, isn't it time to see a doctor?
An untreated medical condition is a cause for medical intervention. However, once it's under control?
Let's discuss that a bit more. What medical condition, once correctly treated, do any of you with good medical knowledge know of that affects weight loss?
Well, maybe someone does. If someone is a doctor, please speak up.
Otherwise, we cannot speak from a medical perspective. I realize it seems a little picky to point out. It's a really fine line. But a distinction should be made.
Doctors have medical opinions. We do not.
There are people in the medical profession on this forum. Posting in this thread, even.
Though I realize it seems quite silly, misrepresentations are taken very seriously. Anyone with a license was told and tested on the fact that they aren't qualified to give medical opinions and shouldn't misrepresent themselves as "medical" professionals.
Since we are all scientifically minded (well, not me, but many of us), using the proper terms probably won't be too off-putting. I hope. Not suggesting that everyone else has to fall in line, lol, but it cannot hurt to be clear.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »
We don't have medical knowledge. We don't have medical experience.PeachyCarol wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »I understand that conditions don't directly affect significant weight gain, but a lot of conditions disrupt hormones and disrupt normal regulation of your body. As some of you have stated this can lead to increased appetite. It is not really fair in my opinion to say it is only about CICO. When your appetite is increased and you don't feel good unless you satisfy your appetite, then you have to admit that you are at a disadvantage and your quality of life is greatly diminished than compared to people who can maintain their weight without their body fighting against them.
I went from being skinny with normal eating habits to randomly developing endocrine problems which THEN led to my weight gain. I know the difference of having a normal appetite vs what happens with endocrine problems. It isn't just a "control your appetite" thing, I would literally feel not good if I didn't eat more.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is. I also don't think anyone who has endocrine problems leaves them untreated. When you have symptoms like that, isn't it time to see a doctor?
An untreated medical condition is a cause for medical intervention. However, once it's under control?
Let's discuss that a bit more. What medical condition, once correctly treated, do any of you with good medical knowledge know of that affects weight loss?
Well, maybe someone does. If someone is a doctor, please speak up.
Otherwise, we cannot speak from a medical perspective. I realize it seems a little picky to point out. It's a really fine line. But a distinction should be made.
Doctors have medical opinions. We do not.
There are people in the medical profession on this forum. Posting in this thread, even.
But their expertise is immediately discounted. because they don't have the "md" after their name. Which is sad.
Tiny turtle could tell me anything and I'd believe.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »
We don't have medical knowledge. We don't have medical experience.PeachyCarol wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »I understand that conditions don't directly affect significant weight gain, but a lot of conditions disrupt hormones and disrupt normal regulation of your body. As some of you have stated this can lead to increased appetite. It is not really fair in my opinion to say it is only about CICO. When your appetite is increased and you don't feel good unless you satisfy your appetite, then you have to admit that you are at a disadvantage and your quality of life is greatly diminished than compared to people who can maintain their weight without their body fighting against them.
I went from being skinny with normal eating habits to randomly developing endocrine problems which THEN led to my weight gain. I know the difference of having a normal appetite vs what happens with endocrine problems. It isn't just a "control your appetite" thing, I would literally feel not good if I didn't eat more.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is. I also don't think anyone who has endocrine problems leaves them untreated. When you have symptoms like that, isn't it time to see a doctor?
An untreated medical condition is a cause for medical intervention. However, once it's under control?
Let's discuss that a bit more. What medical condition, once correctly treated, do any of you with good medical knowledge know of that affects weight loss?
Well, maybe someone does. If someone is a doctor, please speak up.
Otherwise, we cannot speak from a medical perspective. I realize it seems a little picky to point out. It's a really fine line. But a distinction should be made.
Doctors have medical opinions. We do not.
There are people in the medical profession on this forum. Posting in this thread, even.
But their expertise is immediately discounted. because they don't have the "md" after their name. Which is sad.
Tiny turtle could tell me anything and I'd believe.
That's because I'm an awesome nurse. 0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »The first chronic condition I had that needed medication was anxiety based depression with PTSD. The disorders gave me the desire to gain weight. I began therapy which I continued for the better part of two decades. The medications for those psychological disordered had a side effect of insomnia, enter next medication. The weight gain and genetic predisposition added the third medication for cholesterol. Enter uterine cancer which led to removal of those female hormone producing ovaries, putting me into instant menopause in my early forties. The hormone shift complicated the psychological disorders, life complications added tons of stress and more over eating, less activity. At this point I was constantly, on some level suicidal. I stopped wearing seat belts and eat what ever I wanted because on some level, I wanted to die. In my late 40's I had 3 strokes, introduce two or more medications, one or two for high blood pressure and a variety of blood thinners. Immediately following the strokes I was paralyzed on my right side, I recovered most of the function. But being obese complicated my continued recovery of function, which complicated psychological disorders. I had to have my gallbladder removed. I also had carpel tunnel, sleep apnea, acid re-flux and a vitamin D deficiency. I was taking 6 prescription medications(4 of which had increased in dosage at least once since first prescribed) and two supplements daily to treat all my conditions. In March of this year, I was diagnosed with diabetes, and faced the prospect of taking yet another medication. My GP was concerned with all the medication I was taking and adding another. He challenged me to lose 20% of my body weight and see if that would eliminate the need for an added medication. I reached that goal in September and have kept going. I not only got my A1C down to normal range, thus avoiding the need for another medication, I got the go ahead to decrease the blood pressure medicine by half in July. Just last week my Doctor recommended I stop the cholesterol medication. I lost the weight by decreasing my CI and increasing CO. Despite having numerous chronic medical issues requiring medications, age, and menopause, my CI-CO=weight change with over 95% accuracy. To hear all the experts, I am an outlier, by having incredibly averagely predictable weight loss.
Amazing. What you've survived and been through! Thanks for sharing.
Not only survived but am thriving. I am losing weight, getting fit, and most important of all I feel great emotionally and physically. Is it because I am losing weight, eating nutritionally dense low processed food, walking 5 miles 6 days a week or strength training 3 times a week? Cause or effect? We are complex.0 -
Hello, I'm new to the forums and I have several medical conditions. Recently became diabetic in June. I have experienced first hand how diet and exercise influence diabetes. My A1C score in June was 14.5. In Just three months time, I brought it down to 7.2 which almost normal. Diet and exercise are a big part in managing diabetes. With me, I had to make drastic changes in my diet.
I think we can never go wrong with proper diet and exercise to manage medical conditions. Medical conditions just add an extra wrinkle and make us fight harder to succeed.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
Insulin breaks down glucose in blod and delivers it as fuel to cells... usually. When someone has very little or no insulin (type 1 diabetics fit this criteria), blood glucose (BG) rises and cells starve.
You're correct about the symptoms, but not about the mechanisms.
Insulin doesn't break down glucose in any manner, nor is it needed for cells to use glucose as fuel. Insulin does the following:
* Allows glucose to enter fat cells
* Increases the amount of glucose that enters muscle cells and causes muscle to produce more glyocgen
* Signals the liver to produce glycogen and stop producing glucose
* Signals fat cells to stop breaking down fat and start producing new fat
* Reduces appetite
Insulin is absolutely not needed for any cells to absorb glucose for fuel; that was a hypothesis from decades ago now known to be false. Insulin only affects one type of glucose transporter (GLUT4) and that is found in muscle and fat cells. The rest of the body uses GLUT1 (most of the body), GLUT2 (liver), or GLUT3 (brain), none of which are impacted by insulin. Muscle also has other transporters so it can burn glucose in the absence of insulin.
The blood sugar isn't elevated in diabetes from a lack of carbohydrate metabolism (diabetics use glucose as fuel at normal rates), but from an overproduction of new glucose in the liver due to a lack of inhibition of gluconeogenesis, and from a failure to store any surplus glucose until the energy is needed.
The increased ketones in DKA aren't because of a poverty of carbohydrate metabolism, but because fat cells are dumping lots of fat into the blood, and the liver is making lots of new glucose from that fat, as insulin is normally the hormone that inhibits both of those processes. The body has no need for the glucose, but the fat cells and liver cells believe it does because they aren't getting the signal to stop.
Coma, nausea, etc. aren't caused by starvation of any tissue, but because of swelling of the brain, likely due to hyponatremia - low sodium levels from the high fluid intake caused by the excessive thirst. Coma happens because the brain is literally being forced against the inside of the skull.
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susan100df wrote: »I had to take a few different drugs via mouth and IV drip that have weight gain as a side effect. The drugs were to treat cancer.
I believe it's CICO. It can be very difficult to cut calories enough to get to point where you either maintain or lose with the combination of the side effects of the medication(s).
It took me 18 months to feel normal after treatment ended. Not having the drugs in my system has made it easier to eat at a deficit and lose. Very happy that I only take a multivitamin and Biotin now.
On the other hand, I participated in a drug trial towards the end of treatment. One of the side effects is weight loss. During that time I stopped gaining and maintained.
While it's CICO, medication can definitely change your calorie allowance. If you are on multiple drugs that cause your metabolism to slow, it's very easy to gain weight.
The "sick" part of all this is that one of my first thoughts after being diagnosed is that I would lose the 20 lbs I had been carrying. Really bothers me that I had that thought. Especially when I felt that way because of the mirror over health.
Edited to clarify - The drugs I was on did not add fat to my body. The side effects of increased appetite and slowed metabolism did.
The drug I took that had a side effect of weight loss didn't make fat disappear, it's just that everything I ate went right thru me - sorry to be gross.
yeah, I think that is a common thought. My Mother-in-law had advanced Parkinson's disease and was on daily home peritoneal dialysis when she started giving me her old clothes. She said "these are my old 'fat clothes.' She loved being skinnier than she was before she got sick. Of course her fat clothes were too small for me, but that's for another thread! 
" Don't offer to give people your 'fat clothes!" 
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I really wish we could all leave DKA out of weight loss discussions. I just worry that some slow-witted diabetic will start thinking, "Well, If it will help me lose weight..." and "It's dangerous and deadly, but surely the hospital would save my life!" or even, "Oh, these people don't know what they're talking about. It cannot be that dangerous."
I've seen people here decide to take potassium pills so they could "offset" high amounts of sodium, run races with BPs of 190/x following hospitalization for hypertensive crisis and decide to "walk it off" when their legs were sore, red and swollen. They take "supplements" that are dangerous for their cardiovascular system. People make poor decisions. It happens. Why make this a possibility?
But I guess we cannot leave it out, soI feel compelled to say this...
DKA is a serious, life-threatening medical emergency. It is NOT a weight loss technique. If you managed to get yourself into it, you could die. You probably would die, if nobody was around to save you. You might even die if people were trying to save you. It's a DANGEROUS thing and should NOT be attempted by anyone.
Given the choice between DKA and a heart attack, I might choose the heart attack.
NOBODY should be attempting to get themselves into DKA. It's foolish and dangerous.
(I'm very pro- on weight loss techniques. Even the wacky, silly and foolish ones. I'm good with just about anything anyone wants to try and am not an alarmist. This isn't about weight loss techniques. DKA isn't a weight loss technique. It's a medical emergency.)0 -
I really wish we could all leave DKA out of weight loss discussions. I just worry that some slow-witted diabetic will start thinking, "Well, If it will help me lose weight..." and "It's dangerous and deadly, but surely the hospital would save my life!" or even, "Oh, these people don't know what they're talking about. It cannot be that dangerous."
I've seen people here decide to take potassium pills so they could "offset" high amounts of sodium, run races with BPs of 190/x following hospitalization for hypertensive crisis and decide to "walk it off" when their legs were sore, red and swollen. They take "supplements" that are dangerous for their cardiovascular system. People make poor decisions. It happens. Why make this a possibility?
But I guess we cannot leave it out, soI feel compelled to say this...
DKA is a serious, life-threatening medical emergency. It is NOT a weight loss technique. If you managed to get yourself into it, you could die. You probably would die, if nobody was around to save you. You might even die if people were trying to save you. It's a DANGEROUS thing and should NOT be attempted by anyone.
Given the choice between DKA and a heart attack, I might choose the heart attack.
NOBODY should be attempting to get themselves into DKA. It's foolish and dangerous.
Yeah, earlier when that argument was going on I checked out diabetic-daily.com. LOT of posters on their forum asking about DKA as a weight loss technique...... *shudder* fortunately the community at large seems to have been swift and decisive in shutting that **** down.0 -
People who had been through it would never suggest it was a good thing or a thing anyone should attempt. Well, not if they were sane.CoffeeNCardio wrote: »I really wish we could all leave DKA out of weight loss discussions. I just worry that some slow-witted diabetic will start thinking, "Well, If it will help me lose weight..." and "It's dangerous and deadly, but surely the hospital would save my life!" or even, "Oh, these people don't know what they're talking about. It cannot be that dangerous."
I've seen people here decide to take potassium pills so they could "offset" high amounts of sodium, run races with BPs of 190/x following hospitalization for hypertensive crisis and decide to "walk it off" when their legs were sore, red and swollen. They take "supplements" that are dangerous for their cardiovascular system. People make poor decisions. It happens. Why make this a possibility?
But I guess we cannot leave it out, soI feel compelled to say this...
DKA is a serious, life-threatening medical emergency. It is NOT a weight loss technique. If you managed to get yourself into it, you could die. You probably would die, if nobody was around to save you. You might even die if people were trying to save you. It's a DANGEROUS thing and should NOT be attempted by anyone.
Given the choice between DKA and a heart attack, I might choose the heart attack.
NOBODY should be attempting to get themselves into DKA. It's foolish and dangerous.
Yeah, earlier when that argument was going on I checked out diabetic-daily.com. LOT of posters on their forum asking about DKA as a weight loss technique...... *shudder* fortunately the community at large seems to have been swift and decisive in shutting that **** down.
As you and many other posters here would attest, I support every stupid, crazy, ridiculous and unnecessary weight loss technique that exists. I am frequently lambasted for doing so. It an unpopular idea, supporting wacky weight loss plans. I get that and don't care about that. But there are PLENTY of posters who can tell you that I support every plan: smart, stupid or in the middle.
I support every weight loss plan, but strongly urge people to avoid DKA with everything they have. It's NOT a weight loss technique and shouldn't be supported by anyone!!0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »
We don't have medical knowledge. We don't have medical experience.PeachyCarol wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »I understand that conditions don't directly affect significant weight gain, but a lot of conditions disrupt hormones and disrupt normal regulation of your body. As some of you have stated this can lead to increased appetite. It is not really fair in my opinion to say it is only about CICO. When your appetite is increased and you don't feel good unless you satisfy your appetite, then you have to admit that you are at a disadvantage and your quality of life is greatly diminished than compared to people who can maintain their weight without their body fighting against them.
I went from being skinny with normal eating habits to randomly developing endocrine problems which THEN led to my weight gain. I know the difference of having a normal appetite vs what happens with endocrine problems. It isn't just a "control your appetite" thing, I would literally feel not good if I didn't eat more.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is. I also don't think anyone who has endocrine problems leaves them untreated. When you have symptoms like that, isn't it time to see a doctor?
An untreated medical condition is a cause for medical intervention. However, once it's under control?
Let's discuss that a bit more. What medical condition, once correctly treated, do any of you with good medical knowledge know of that affects weight loss?
Well, maybe someone does. If someone is a doctor, please speak up.
Otherwise, we cannot speak from a medical perspective. I realize it seems a little picky to point out. It's a really fine line. But a distinction should be made.
Doctors have medical opinions. We do not.
There are people in the medical profession on this forum. Posting in this thread, even.
But their expertise is immediately discounted. because they don't have the "md" after their name. Which is sad.
I may not have an MD after my name but I do have several other letters. And 10+ years of medical experience with additional schooling and research. Which I am more than happy to share.0 -
People who had been through it would never suggest it was a good thing or a thing anyone should attempt. Well, not if they were sane.CoffeeNCardio wrote: »I really wish we could all leave DKA out of weight loss discussions. I just worry that some slow-witted diabetic will start thinking, "Well, If it will help me lose weight..." and "It's dangerous and deadly, but surely the hospital would save my life!" or even, "Oh, these people don't know what they're talking about. It cannot be that dangerous."
I've seen people here decide to take potassium pills so they could "offset" high amounts of sodium, run races with BPs of 190/x following hospitalization for hypertensive crisis and decide to "walk it off" when their legs were sore, red and swollen. They take "supplements" that are dangerous for their cardiovascular system. People make poor decisions. It happens. Why make this a possibility?
But I guess we cannot leave it out, soI feel compelled to say this...
DKA is a serious, life-threatening medical emergency. It is NOT a weight loss technique. If you managed to get yourself into it, you could die. You probably would die, if nobody was around to save you. You might even die if people were trying to save you. It's a DANGEROUS thing and should NOT be attempted by anyone.
Given the choice between DKA and a heart attack, I might choose the heart attack.
NOBODY should be attempting to get themselves into DKA. It's foolish and dangerous.
Yeah, earlier when that argument was going on I checked out diabetic-daily.com. LOT of posters on their forum asking about DKA as a weight loss technique...... *shudder* fortunately the community at large seems to have been swift and decisive in shutting that **** down.
As you and many other posters here would attest, I support every stupid, crazy, ridiculous and unnecessary weight loss technique that exists. I am frequently lambasted for doing so. It an unpopular idea, supporting wacky weight loss plans. I get that and don't care about that. But there are PLENTY of posters who can tell you that I support every plan: smart, stupid or in the middle.
I support every weight loss plan, but strongly urge people to avoid DKA with everything they have. It's NOT a weight loss technique and shouldn't be supported by anyone!!
Nobody is encouraging or supporting DKA. I've been the first to say it is dangerous and at one point even refused to explain it on grounds that someone could use that information in an unhealthy manner. But I got shouted down and accused of making things up because I wouldn't explain those details. I don't bring things up that I don't think are relevant... you won't find me posting gifs to derail a thread with nonsense. It is hard to believe that DKA is never relevant. In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).0 -
Claiming CICO isn't always valid as a method of losing weight based on one incidence of DKA is akin to claiming that spending less money than you earn is not a valid and proven way to save money based on a lucky lotto ticket that netted me $50million.
And just as with saving money, losing weight always comes down to a basic equation. ALWAYS. Yes, there are a myriad of situations that effect the equation, but that doesn't negate the validity of the equation.
0 -
I get that and am not suggesting that you're trying to support it or derail anything. I promise.midwesterner85 wrote: »
People who had been through it would never suggest it was a good thing or a thing anyone should attempt. Well, not if they were sane.CoffeeNCardio wrote: »I really wish we could all leave DKA out of weight loss discussions. I just worry that some slow-witted diabetic will start thinking, "Well, If it will help me lose weight..." and "It's dangerous and deadly, but surely the hospital would save my life!" or even, "Oh, these people don't know what they're talking about. It cannot be that dangerous."
I've seen people here decide to take potassium pills so they could "offset" high amounts of sodium, run races with BPs of 190/x following hospitalization for hypertensive crisis and decide to "walk it off" when their legs were sore, red and swollen. They take "supplements" that are dangerous for their cardiovascular system. People make poor decisions. It happens. Why make this a possibility?
But I guess we cannot leave it out, soI feel compelled to say this...
DKA is a serious, life-threatening medical emergency. It is NOT a weight loss technique. If you managed to get yourself into it, you could die. You probably would die, if nobody was around to save you. You might even die if people were trying to save you. It's a DANGEROUS thing and should NOT be attempted by anyone.
Given the choice between DKA and a heart attack, I might choose the heart attack.
NOBODY should be attempting to get themselves into DKA. It's foolish and dangerous.
Yeah, earlier when that argument was going on I checked out diabetic-daily.com. LOT of posters on their forum asking about DKA as a weight loss technique...... *shudder* fortunately the community at large seems to have been swift and decisive in shutting that **** down.
As you and many other posters here would attest, I support every stupid, crazy, ridiculous and unnecessary weight loss technique that exists. I am frequently lambasted for doing so. It an unpopular idea, supporting wacky weight loss plans. I get that and don't care about that. But there are PLENTY of posters who can tell you that I support every plan: smart, stupid or in the middle.
I support every weight loss plan, but strongly urge people to avoid DKA with everything they have. It's NOT a weight loss technique and shouldn't be supported by anyone!!
Nobody is encouraging or supporting DKA. I've been the first to say it is dangerous and at one point even refused to explain it on grounds that someone could use that information in an unhealthy manner. But I got shouted down and accused of making things up because I wouldn't explain those details. I don't bring things up that I don't think are relevant... you won't find me posting gifs to derail a thread with nonsense. It is hard to believe that DKA is never relevant. In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
I just think that some goofy person might attempt it, so feel like I have to say (in big letters, lol) that it's dangerous.
Of course physical issues have effects on the body. I don't know why I even entered this thread. People who believe it will and people who don't will not and nobody is changing their mind.
I'm out.
0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.0 -
rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
But isn't it really TDEE - deficit(weekly loss goal dependent) + exercise? Hence the choice you have to make when you pick activity level? Otherwise, most everyone would be set at the same # wouldn't they? I can't imagine we're all at 1200 calorie limits... (yes, I'm really asking the question, not an attempt to disagree)0 -
Here's a pretty decent write up about cortisol written by a few researchers (please feel free to read their references at the bottom for more in depth information):
http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/stresscortisol.html
Also note, cortisol isn't the only hormone that is linked to stress and weight. Leptin and ghrelin are as well.
Thank you!0
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