Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Food Addiction - A Different Perspective
Options
Replies
-
kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Well I have been addicted to opiates, crack and food. I'm still addicted to food be quite frank with you.
Sorry, no such thing as being addicted to food. What substance do you think you are addicted to?
You may well have an ED, that doesn't require addiction and is a serious problem.
I agree with there being no food addiction, rather an eating addiction. I'm unsure as to why people need food to physically be addictive, I mean above and beyond the part where we literally need it to live, and cannot accept it as a behavioral addiction. It's consistent with what science has currently demonstrated and, frankly, just makes sense.
Along this note, isn't the most "addicting" food according to that Yale study pizza? I've always found that to be the most interesting, especially due to the fact that most people who claim to be addicted to food claim to be addicted to sugar.
Yes, and similarly in the book Sugar, Salt, Fat (I always get the order wrong), they discuss the studies about brain responses to hyperpalatable foods (NOT the same thing as addiction), and fat scores as high as sugar.
These phrases are used in the section about the studies about sugar and fat: "potentially addictive", "same narcotic-like effects on the brain" [as cocaine], "scientists have studied the brain's reaction to processed foods and drugs like cocaine, and have concluded that some drugs achieve their allure, and addictive qualities, by following the same neurological channels that our bodies first developed for food."
Several of the food scientists and executives in "Salt, Sugar, Fat" seem quite comfortable using the word "addictive" to describe their foods and some ingredients.
Sure, but to me the focus on dopamine and just the desire to eat more isn't at all like addiction. It's why humans want to eat food, which it really seems perverted to call addiction -- we are evolved to do so since we need to eat, just like we enjoy sex. Making the essence of addiction about enjoyment is wrong.0 -
susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault. And there definitely are posters here who claim they cannot change because they are "addicted."
Anyway, fact is there's nothing in the foods that are "addictive" and the foods they have no reaction to are made up of the same basic substances, so it's a behaviorial or habit thing. More significantly, I think some thing that others have no desire to eat more than they should so it must be "addiction" if they do, and that's a fantasy.
My issue with the book Salt, Sugar, Fat (which is a good book), is that it suggests that storebought food is more tempting and for anyone with taste (yes, that's snobby) it's not, it's just that it's closer than it used to be and cheap and available.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault.
^^This. And it is the attitude of helplessness that will be the very thing that prevents them from being able to change the behavior that 'addicts' them.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault. And there definitely are posters here who claim they cannot change because they are "addicted."
Anyway, fact is there's nothing in the foods that are "addictive" and the foods they have no reaction to are made up of the same basic substances, so it's a behaviorial or habit thing. More significantly, I think some thing that others have no desire to eat more than they should so it must be "addiction" if they do, and that's a fantasy.
My issue with the book Salt, Sugar, Fat (which is a good book), is that it suggests that storebought food is more tempting and for anyone with taste (yes, that's snobby) it's not, it's just that it's closer than it used to be and cheap and available.
I honestly think it's both. There's the group that claims to be addicted and come up with every excuse in the book when given many viable options to address the issue and then there's the group that accepts one or more pieces of advice given. I think the latter group gets less attention, though, because it doesn't spiral out of control.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault. And there definitely are posters here who claim they cannot change because they are "addicted."
Anyway, fact is there's nothing in the foods that are "addictive" and the foods they have no reaction to are made up of the same basic substances, so it's a behaviorial or habit thing. More significantly, I think some thing that others have no desire to eat more than they should so it must be "addiction" if they do, and that's a fantasy.
My issue with the book Salt, Sugar, Fat (which is a good book), is that it suggests that storebought food is more tempting and for anyone with taste (yes, that's snobby) it's not, it's just that it's closer than it used to be and cheap and available.
I honestly think it's both. There's the group that claims to be addicted and come up with every excuse in the book when given many viable options to address the issue and then there's the group that accepts one or more pieces of advice given. I think the latter group gets less attention, though, because it doesn't spiral out of control.
but isnt it all about timing. the right time
i have never thought i was addicted to food, but if you talked to me 4 years ago about losing weight i would have given you my excuses because i wasnt ready to lose weight, i didnt actually think it was possible, i didnt know how to start.
you see posts all day everyday about people thinking they need to starve to lose weight, or give up pizza and soda, it reads like excuses but they just need to have the right information and some guidance.
It can be painful to read you are doing it wrong, or you are eating way more than you think or you are not addicted. Some ops need to digest the information go away and often you see new threads thanking people for the advice given. And sometimes they get angry delete their accounts0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
While I believe that your last statement can be true for some of those posters I believe that there are other factors in play. I think there are some that take it very personally for whatever reason and seem to be personally offended by the usage of the word "addict".
I have also seen those that I feel are using the arguments as a way to feel superior. It is kind of like an exsmoker that likes to be critical of those that have not been able to quit.
0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault. And there definitely are posters here who claim they cannot change because they are "addicted."
Anyway, fact is there's nothing in the foods that are "addictive" and the foods they have no reaction to are made up of the same basic substances, so it's a behaviorial or habit thing. More significantly, I think some thing that others have no desire to eat more than they should so it must be "addiction" if they do, and that's a fantasy.
My issue with the book Salt, Sugar, Fat (which is a good book), is that it suggests that storebought food is more tempting and for anyone with taste (yes, that's snobby) it's not, it's just that it's closer than it used to be and cheap and available.
I honestly think it's both. There's the group that claims to be addicted and come up with every excuse in the book when given many viable options to address the issue and then there's the group that accepts one or more pieces of advice given. I think the latter group gets less attention, though, because it doesn't spiral out of control.
but isnt it all about timing. the right time
i have never thought i was addicted to food, but if you talked to me 4 years ago about losing weight i would have given you my excuses because i wasnt ready to lose weight, i didnt actually think it was possible, i didnt know how to start.
you see posts all day everyday about people thinking they need to starve to lose weight, or give up pizza and soda, it reads like excuses but they just need to have the right information and some guidance.
It can be painful to read you are doing it wrong, or you are eating way more than you think or you are not addicted. Some ops need to digest the information go away and often you see new threads thanking people for the advice given. And sometimes they get angry delete their accounts
Yeah, I do think it is more about timing than anything else over actually being addicted, either physically or behaviorally. This gets pointed out every time orthorexia comes up that even if it does exist, it is likely a very small subset of the general population like other EDs; eating or food addiction does not seem to get the same treatment, though, where even if it does exist, it is likely a very small subset of the general population.
The rest of us just have other issues, which is totally fine, too. When people I formerly worked with - I worked at Starbucks during my MA program - saw me about a year later, they asked me what I had done. I told them the truth, which was that it's amazing what less stress and not eating my feelings can do (you know, also calorie counting and moving more but no one cares about that). I'm a huge comfort eater and Starbucks pastries are not exactly low cal!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault.
I also think that it leads down a road to the answer to obesity that is caused by addiction is elimination a la abstinence model. I hear it often in the sugar threads.
Here are two potential responses to someone who wants to eliminate M&Ms because they think they are addicted:
1. Some people learn to moderate over time and prefer this approach. Others like to not have trigger foods in the house. Experiment and see what works for you. If you want to try moderation, you could check to see if it fits in your calorie goals, weigh out one serving, and put the bag out of sight. Eat it slowly and mindfully, savoring every bit.
2. No, you're not addicted to M&Ms.
I prefer to focus on the strategy rather than the label.0 -
Food addiction is a real thing, no matter the term or name you use. The evidence is how certain foods affect the brain in relation to how drugs affect the brain: the dopamine reward centers. When a substance causes a significant increase in these receptors, the person desires it more. Eventually you need more and more in order to feel the same satisfaction and less dopamine increases from "healthier" foods do not satisfy like they used to. If this unbalanced diet started in youth, it's a more deeply rooted addiction. You don't have to be fat to have a food addiction, but just like drugs if there's no interruption in quality of life then it's not typically identified. Here's some sources that review current evidence for it.
Neurobiology of food addiction
http://journals.lww.com/co-clinicalnutrition/Abstract/2010/07000/Neurobiology_of_food_addiction.3.aspx
Summary: First, work presented in this review strongly supports the notion that food addiction is a real phenomenon. Second, although food and drugs of abuse act on the same central networks, food consumption is also regulated by peripheral signaling systems, which adds to the complexity of understanding how the body regulates eating, and of treating pathological eating habits. Third, neurobiological research reviewed here indicates that traditional pharmacological and behavioral interventions for other substance-use disorders may prove useful in treating obesity.
Food addiction: true or false?
http://journals.lww.com/co-gastroenterology/Abstract/2010/03000/Food_addiction__true_or_false_.16.aspx
Summary: Recent findings have strengthened the case for food addiction. These findings may serve to validate the perception of food addiction in patients and inform psychoeducational, cognitive-behavioral, and/or pharmacological treatment for chronic food cravings, compulsive overeating, and binge eating that may represent a phenotype of obesity. Screening for food addiction has the potential to identify people with eating difficulties that seriously compromise weight management efforts. Future research should include a focus on human food addiction research; evaluating the impact of treatment on underlying neurochemistry; and prevention or reversal of food addiction in humans.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Here are two potential responses to someone who wants to eliminate M&Ms because they think they are addicted:
1. Some people learn to moderate over time and prefer this approach. Others like to not have trigger foods in the house. Experiment and see what works for you. If you want to try moderation, you could check to see if it fits in your calorie goals, weigh out one serving, and put the bag out of sight. Eat it slowly and mindfully, savoring every bit.
2. No, you're not addicted to M&Ms.
I prefer to focus on the strategy rather than the label.
But I think you can offer both! And both usually are offered.
The point of offering Choice #2 above is to let the person know that the food in question doesn't hold some iron physical grip over them that is insurmountable. I also think that Choice #2 can be said in an insensitive, superior way at times, which is unfortunate. Ultimately, what I've seen on these boards is that people sincerely do want to help others.
0 -
@Therealobi1 - I agree with you, and sadly this is going to result in another long post from me =P
I've been in more discussion about this (on a different board where I have more freedom to discuss the topic). As a result, if I were to participate in future on an "I'm addicted to sugar" (or addicted to whatever) thread on MFP, I'd still point out that in MY OWN life I haven't had experiences or seen enough clear evidence yet to convince me that food per se is addictive. But I wouldn't try to debate what other posters call themselves, even if they insist on calling themselves food/sugar/carb addicts.
I realized this because these MFP debates made me think not only about my own recovery from drug addiction, but also about people I work with as clients. I've worked for years with people who've been doing things like prostituting and stealing to pay for drugs, or using nails to poke holes in the veins on the back of their hands to try and drip the drugs in because they didn't have access to syringes. But they refused to call themselves addicts. And for me, it was perfectly fine if they didn't want to use that label as long as they kept showing up.
I let them know I didn't care about whether they called themselves addicts or not, because the label wasn't as important as the simple fact that they wanted to change. I knew that if the change succeeded, they might or might not come around to acknowledging the label themselves. But if they did come to view themselves as addicts, it had to happen on THEIR timetable. Not mine.
Conversely, on MFP, a person may have to experience for themselves what it's like to be free of their unhealthy eating before they might look back and say to themselves, "OK. I see now the sugar by itself wasn't an addiction. It was just all wrapped up in a lot of eating/thought/behavior patterns, and I had to work on all of that together to get free".
Or they might never let go of the "I'm a sugar addict" label. It doesn't really matter as long as they'll own their part of the responsibility to create change, and keep moving forward. But if they use the addict label as an excuse not to change, that becomes part of the problem - and even then it's not about the addict label itself. It's about the fact that they're claiming to be helpless when that isn't the case.
I view the whole addict label debate as sort of an academic issue. I can insist on doing battle with someone over how they use the term, but that means that the debate over language will become the focus. Or I can let go of the debate, and focus on whether the person is in a place where they're interested in changing, what that might look like, and what they learning from trying. Because doing that, and the courage to talk about what's learned from both success and failure, is what matters.
None of that takes away from the importance of keeping up with the ongoing research about eating patterns, the influence of hyper-palatable foods on eating patterns, and whether and how there's any overlap with addictions. Because that's one hell of an interesting set of topics, at least for a nerd like me. And as information becomes clearer, hopefully we'll have more and better tools and strategies to help ourselves and others. But in the meantime I think the "I'm a sugar addict" "no you're not" "yes I am" dance is pointless, and takes away from what's really important.susan100df wrote: »YES!!!!!! Completely explains why it's pointless to debate whether food addiction exists in order to help someone. I hope that other posters see the benefit and apply it when they are responding to posters who are reaching out to discuss their issues around food.
Thank you for starting the thread @PeachyCarol. I appreciate all of the posts and different perspectives. I understand a little better why addiction threads get so nutty.
@susan100df did all the bolding for me, lol.
Thanks for another great post @Caitwn!
Because I find the whole, "Hi, I'm kshama and I'm an alcoholic" dis-empowering, I don't refer to myself as an alcoholic. However, my MSW mother certainly considered me to have been one back in the day. I did realize I had a problem, and fixed it. Mom went to a Smart/Rational Recovery meeting or two with me. We didn't have to agree on a label.0 -
vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Here are two potential responses to someone who wants to eliminate M&Ms because they think they are addicted:
1. Some people learn to moderate over time and prefer this approach. Others like to not have trigger foods in the house. Experiment and see what works for you. If you want to try moderation, you could check to see if it fits in your calorie goals, weigh out one serving, and put the bag out of sight. Eat it slowly and mindfully, savoring every bit.
2. No, you're not addicted to M&Ms.
I prefer to focus on the strategy rather than the label.
But I think you can offer both! And both usually are offered.
The point of offering Choice #2 above is to let the person know that the food in question doesn't hold some iron physical grip over them that is insurmountable. I also think that Choice #2 can be said in an insensitive, superior way at times, which is unfortunate. Ultimately, what I've seen on these boards is that people sincerely do want to help others.
I wouldn't object to a post that included # 2 if they also mentioned # 1. I also don't object to posts that differentiate between behavioral and physical addiction. What I mind is people dropping # 2 and stopping. That just leads to an unhelpful semantics debate.
I also think posts like @shell1005's story below would be quite helpful. But focusing on the terminology and stopping there is likely to be invalidating and unhelpful. If the OP gets defensive, communication ceases.My story is very similar to PeachyCarol's. I believed hardcore that I was a food addict. I was working in the addiction field and many of the things my clients felt about drugs and alcohol resonated with how I felt around food. I thought I was powerless. I thought I had to restrict the trigger foods and thought that the treatment should be abstinence.
However, I had an awakening. I was able to see that food is not like those substance that my clients had a physical dependency to. Yes, I had an emotional and behavior problem when it came to food. In therapy, I was able to work through the issues. I ended up being diagnosed with Binge Eating Disorder and worked with my treatment team to find the best way to manage it. BTW, BED is not an addiction. It is a behavioral disorder. I was really able to see the difference in treatment. I have often heard that isn't hurtful to have people discuss issues with food as an addiction, but for me that was totally not the case. I know fundamentally that if I did not challenge the idea that I was a food addict that I would not have made the turn towards what ended up being the correct path for me. I had to recognize that food addiction just does not exist and look for answers that connected with science and my personal experience.
I was also able to see that for me, abstinence or restriction diets are not what is best for me. Moderation actually got me to do the hard work of addressing and facing my behavioral issues with food. Restriction diets just allowed me to hide from what was going on. I am a stronger person now that I have faced the feeling behind my issues with food and made a plan moving forward.0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault. And there definitely are posters here who claim they cannot change because they are "addicted."
Anyway, fact is there's nothing in the foods that are "addictive" and the foods they have no reaction to are made up of the same basic substances, so it's a behaviorial or habit thing. More significantly, I think some thing that others have no desire to eat more than they should so it must be "addiction" if they do, and that's a fantasy.
My issue with the book Salt, Sugar, Fat (which is a good book), is that it suggests that storebought food is more tempting and for anyone with taste (yes, that's snobby) it's not, it's just that it's closer than it used to be and cheap and available.
I honestly think it's both. There's the group that claims to be addicted and come up with every excuse in the book when given many viable options to address the issue and then there's the group that accepts one or more pieces of advice given. I think the latter group gets less attention, though, because it doesn't spiral out of control.
but isnt it all about timing. the right time
i have never thought i was addicted to food, but if you talked to me 4 years ago about losing weight i would have given you my excuses because i wasnt ready to lose weight, i didnt actually think it was possible, i didnt know how to start.
you see posts all day everyday about people thinking they need to starve to lose weight, or give up pizza and soda, it reads like excuses but they just need to have the right information and some guidance.
It can be painful to read you are doing it wrong, or you are eating way more than you think or you are not addicted. Some ops need to digest the information go away and often you see new threads thanking people for the advice given. And sometimes they get angry delete their accounts
Yes, this.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault.
I also think that it leads down a road to the answer to obesity that is caused by addiction is elimination a la abstinence model. I hear it often in the sugar threads.
Here are two potential responses to someone who wants to eliminate M&Ms because they think they are addicted:
1. Some people learn to moderate over time and prefer this approach. Others like to not have trigger foods in the house. Experiment and see what works for you. If you want to try moderation, you could check to see if it fits in your calorie goals, weigh out one serving, and put the bag out of sight. Eat it slowly and mindfully, savoring every bit.
2. No, you're not addicted to M&Ms.
I prefer to focus on the strategy rather than the label.
I do too, but I'd say both. It's physically impossible to be "addicted" to M&Ms and not the many other things that have the same basic chemical make up. My co-worker keeps a cup of M&Ms and one of peanut M&Ms. I couldn't care less about the M&Ms, but if I start grabbing the peanut ones, I'm gone. I know that, so I don't, but that's not addiction. It's a habit and a taste thing (I do like peanut M&Ms).0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
I think they are trying to claim that unlike other fat people it's not their fault. And there definitely are posters here who claim they cannot change because they are "addicted."
Anyway, fact is there's nothing in the foods that are "addictive" and the foods they have no reaction to are made up of the same basic substances, so it's a behaviorial or habit thing. More significantly, I think some thing that others have no desire to eat more than they should so it must be "addiction" if they do, and that's a fantasy.
My issue with the book Salt, Sugar, Fat (which is a good book), is that it suggests that storebought food is more tempting and for anyone with taste (yes, that's snobby) it's not, it's just that it's closer than it used to be and cheap and available.
I honestly think it's both. There's the group that claims to be addicted and come up with every excuse in the book when given many viable options to address the issue and then there's the group that accepts one or more pieces of advice given. I think the latter group gets less attention, though, because it doesn't spiral out of control.
but isnt it all about timing. the right time
i have never thought i was addicted to food, but if you talked to me 4 years ago about losing weight i would have given you my excuses because i wasnt ready to lose weight, i didnt actually think it was possible, i didnt know how to start.
you see posts all day everyday about people thinking they need to starve to lose weight, or give up pizza and soda, it reads like excuses but they just need to have the right information and some guidance.
It can be painful to read you are doing it wrong, or you are eating way more than you think or you are not addicted. Some ops need to digest the information go away and often you see new threads thanking people for the advice given. And sometimes they get angry delete their accounts
Yes, completely. A lot of the interior work of battling your food demons takes a very long time and is a ... get ready for an overused, cliched word choice! ... journey.
People come here at different points on their paths, but one thing I've learned along the way. Even if you're not ready to do something yet, often hearing what you're not ready to implement plants seeds that will help you when you're further along.
This has held to be true very much so for me.
I find it very much underestimates people to presume that the only valid way to help them is to always meet them where they are.
I am hoping this thread provides food for thought.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
Right, no one who starts a thread and says they have a food addiction wants to only be told "poor you" - they post because they want to change and are seeking advice. And no one who believes in food as a behavioral addiction says "poor you" and leaves it at that.
It's only the posters who don't think food is addictive who think self proclaimed "food addicts" are going to use this as an excuse for not being able to change.
While I believe that your last statement can be true for some of those posters I believe that there are other factors in play. I think there are some that take it very personally for whatever reason and seem to be personally offended by the usage of the word "addict".
I have also seen those that I feel are using the arguments as a way to feel superior. It is kind of like an exsmoker that likes to be critical of those that have not been able to quit.
I agree with your first paragraph. I am not sure on the second. Could be part of it but I think it goes deeper than that. I've wondered if they are worried people would label them with the word "addict" because they are or were overweight and that's embarrassing or makes them feel weak.
In the end it really doesn't matter why it's so fiercely debated here. People should be able to reach out for strategies on how to cope without having to produce scientific evidence whether addiction exists or not.
The jury is still out on whether it exists. I am interested on where the research leads but more interested in getting my weight and food issues under control. Debating isn't what is going to help make that happen. It's all up to me. It helps to talk about it others who have the same or similar issues.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 913 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions