Juicing fast?

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135

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  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,578 Member
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    Lol everyone I simply said its fascinating because it is an experiment that we can watch unfold. Unlike joe cross. Yes he sells items but that is besides my point of the experiment being far more broad and fascinating.

    It isn't besides the point, it IS the point. It's a sales pitch.
  • brittny0627
    brittny0627 Posts: 22 Member
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    @AnnPT77 Thank you and i agree with you. I feel as though short juice fasts have made me feel better and gotten me in the right mindset. The past 3 months upon entering a new very stressful environment I lost that mindset which is the main reason I am doing it again. That has worked for me which is why I'm not sure why it has been such a debate, when it comes down to some people finding it beneficial for them and others thinking its pointless.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    Calling that video an experiment is an insult to the scientific process.
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
    edited January 2016
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    Not trolling! And I may have only one person who agrees in this, but there are many people who agree. Im not sure why it seems as though i am the only person who has this opinion. There have been no scientific studies that have taken place on short term juice fasting. So there is no science to turn to besides the way our bodies and digestive systems work and whether or not it benefits us. Then we are back to the same debate as before. Many agree, and many disagree. It should ok for me to have a different opinion based on my experience. @Wetcoaster



    ok. Your opinion doesn't science and thats ok. Believe what you wish.
  • brittny0627
    brittny0627 Posts: 22 Member
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    @brianpperkins I can understand that in that sense of the word. However we experiment with baking soda and vinegar, we experiment with hair color, drugs and alcohol or whatever it may be. The term experiment is not exclusive to the scientific process. Thats how I was using the word and I think thats all the guy meant by calling it an experiment.
  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
    edited January 2016
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    It's a fad, and does not reduce caloric intake,
    nor does it provide all necessary nutrition.
    Short-term, it probably wouldn't harm you much.


    Even if you use the whole fruit/vegetable in your juice, drinking calories results in feeling less full than
    eating them. And juicing takes electricity ($), water for cleanup ($), etc.
    But as always, don't take my word for it.
    Here are some studies.
    Feel free to browse PubMed yourselves.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19110020
    The effect of fruit in different forms on energy intake and satiety at a meal
    "whole apple increased satiety more than applesauce or apple juice... results suggest that solid fruit affects
    satiety more than pureed fruit or juice, and that eating fruit at the start of a meal can reduce energy intake."
    The abstract has a link to the full article, for free.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6259919
    The role of dietary fiber in satiety, glucose, and insulin: studies with fruit and fruit juice
    "Satiety, assessed by two subjective scoring systems, was greater after whole fruit than after juice and the
    return of appetite was delayed. With oranges, as previously reported with apples, there was a significantly
    smaller insulin response to fruit than to juice and less postabsorptive fall in plasma glucose."


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17579632
    Effects of food form on appetite and energy intake in lean and obese young adults
    "total daily energy intake was significantly higher ... on days the beverage forms of the high-carbohydrate,
    -fat and -protein foods were ingested, respectively. This was due more to a weak effect on satiety"
    (IOW, solid foods are more satisfying, even if the liquid form has the same # of calories.)


    .
    brittny wrote:
    There have been no scientific studies that have taken place on short term juice fasting.
    So there is no science to turn to
    Um... :confused: See above.

    Admittedly, PubMed only has 3 studies on file to give as results for a search of "juice fasting",
    one of which doesn't apply, not on topic,
    one is in German,
    and one of which had a sample size of 5 men, for 8 days, eating 300 cal/day or less.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term="juice+fasting"


    Searching for "juicing diet" gave 4 results.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=juicing+diet
    One does not seem to be relevant,
    one is a comment on another.

    One warns about kidney damage/failure from overconsumption of oxalate.
    Juicing followed by heavy consumption of oxalate-rich juices appears to be a potential
    cause of oxalate nephropathy and acute renal failure.

    The last basically says that drinking fruit/vegetable juices is better than drinking the same
    calories of sugar water, and drinking whole fruit juice does slow sugar absorption & insulin rise,
    but we knew that already. Also has some small beneficial effect on vasodilation.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    @brianpperkins I can understand that in that sense of the word. However we experiment with baking soda and vinegar, we experiment with hair color, drugs and alcohol or whatever it may be. The term experiment is not exclusive to the scientific process. Thats how I was using the word and I think thats all the guy meant by calling it an experiment.

    Do you even realize how badly you keep undermining yourself?
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    MKEgal wrote: »
    It's a fad, and does not reduce caloric intake,
    nor does it provide all necessary nutrition.
    Short-term, it probably wouldn't harm you much.


    Even if you use the whole fruit/vegetable in your juice, drinking calories results in feeling less full than
    eating them. And juicing takes electricity ($), water for cleanup ($), etc.
    But as always, don't take my word for it.
    Here are some studies.
    Feel free to browse PubMed yourselves.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19110020
    The effect of fruit in different forms on energy intake and satiety at a meal
    "whole apple increased satiety more than applesauce or apple juice... results suggest that solid fruit affects
    satiety more than pureed fruit or juice, and that eating fruit at the start of a meal can reduce energy intake."
    The abstract has a link to the full article, for free.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6259919
    The role of dietary fiber in satiety, glucose, and insulin: studies with fruit and fruit juice
    "Satiety, assessed by two subjective scoring systems, was greater after whole fruit than after juice and the
    return of appetite was delayed. With oranges, as previously reported with apples, there was a significantly
    smaller insulin response to fruit than to juice and less postabsorptive fall in plasma glucose."


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17579632
    Effects of food form on appetite and energy intake in lean and obese young adults
    "total daily energy intake was significantly higher ... on days the beverage forms of the high-carbohydrate,
    -fat and -protein foods were ingested, respectively. This was due more to a weak effect on satiety"
    (IOW, solid foods are more satisfying, even if the liquid form has the same # of calories.)

    Those defending juicing keep illustrating how little they care about the science concerning the subject.
  • RedBeardBruce
    RedBeardBruce Posts: 15 Member
    edited January 2016
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 Thank you and i agree with you. I feel as though short juice fasts have made me feel better and gotten me in the right mindset. The past 3 months upon entering a new very stressful environment I lost that mindset which is the main reason I am doing it again. That has worked for me which is why I'm not sure why it has been such a debate, when it comes down to some people finding it beneficial for them and others thinking its pointless.

    IMO, if you feel you've gotten benefits from juicing and you feel it's beneficial for you, then that's not a problem. The problem is when medical claims about juicing are made that are not supported by evidence, or are contrary to existing evidence.

    On a side note, I've done both juice and water fasts. Looking back, I would not recommend either. I did feel like there were some short term gains, but long term I would have been better off just eating fewer calories on a well balanced diet for the same periods. I would have gotten the same benefits with out any of the negative side effects.

    Consuming less than 800 calories for more than a day or two also slowed down my metabolism, which is the last thing you want when trying to lose weight.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,437 Member
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 Thank you and i agree with you. I feel as though short juice fasts have made me feel better and gotten me in the right mindset. The past 3 months upon entering a new very stressful environment I lost that mindset which is the main reason I am doing it again. That has worked for me which is why I'm not sure why it has been such a debate, when it comes down to some people finding it beneficial for them and others thinking its pointless.

    Weeeelllll, I don't think we agree. Which is OK. I'm not trying to talk you into or out of anything. There is absolutely no way I'd do a juice fast, or encourage anyone to do a juice fast, but I'm not trying to talk you out of it - your mind seems made up, and you've found it helpful in the past - I understand that.

    I think that the reason you're getting some disagreement and push-back is that people like me know that many other people may be reading this, even though they're not posting. Those of us who think juice fasts are at best pointless, and at worst harmful, are worried that some of the people reading will be encouraged to do a juice fast. Not only would that (IMO) be a Bad Plan, but for us to encourage it might be a violation of MFPs terms of service, which say "No Promotion of Unsafe Weight-Loss Techniques".

    I wish you well, truly, and hope you achieve all your objectives.
  • brittny0627
    brittny0627 Posts: 22 Member
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    @brianpperkins what I just stated is unrelated I was discussing a terms meaning. Zero undermining there.

    @RedBeardBruce. thanks. My words are being picked apart when I'm expressing my personal experience. Its become repetitive. It seems as though you might have understood somewhat what i was attempting to explain the entire time.
    Seeing as though you have done both before, people can hear from someone with experience and how they felt about it. I appreciate your opinion on the experience.
    Also wow! I cannot believe you only took in 800 calories that sounds like it would be extremely difficult and sounds dangerous. Was it prebottled and those were the guidelines when you juiced? I really try to get at least 1200 and track everything i put in my juices. sometimes I'm over and sometimes slightly under. thanks
  • emmycantbemeeko
    emmycantbemeeko Posts: 303 Member
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    There is a level of snake oil pseudoscience that doesn't get studied much because its underlying claims are *so* improbable that there is no point in spending finite time and money on pursuing them. Medical research is generally focused on things that have at least a plausible mechanism of action in their favor. If a product or method's claimed actions violate basics of biology and chemistry, that's not going to attract a lot of research time. Short-term juice fasting falls firmly in to this category.

    I think the level of push-back you're seeing here is because you've popped up in several threads today making baseless claims about the benefits of juice fasts while encouraging others to try them. I certainly don't expect to convince *you*- your devotion to juice fasting isn't based on evidence so it isn't likely to be undone by evidence- but I do have some hope other people reading who might be inclined to try it based on your emotional testimony will see the overwhelming response from reality land and make better choices.

    You can do whatever silly things you want with your own nutrition, but when you start promoting absolute nonsense, people are going to call you out on it.

  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    @brianpperkins what I just stated is unrelated I was discussing a terms meaning. Zero undermining there.

    @RedBeardBruce. thanks. My words are being picked apart when I'm expressing my personal experience. Its become repetitive. It seems as though you might have understood somewhat what i was attempting to explain the entire time.
    Seeing as though you have done both before, people can hear from someone with experience and how they felt about it. I appreciate your opinion on the experience.
    Also wow! I cannot believe you only took in 800 calories that sounds like it would be extremely difficult and sounds dangerous. Was it prebottled and those were the guidelines when you juiced? I really try to get at least 1200 and track everything i put in my juices. sometimes I'm over and sometimes slightly under. thanks
    brittny0627 wrote: »
    @brianpperkins what I just stated is unrelated I was discussing a terms meaning. Zero undermining there.

    @RedBeardBruce. thanks. My words are being picked apart when I'm expressing my personal experience. Its become repetitive. It seems as though you might have understood somewhat what i was attempting to explain the entire time.
    Seeing as though you have done both before, people can hear from someone with experience and how they felt about it. I appreciate your opinion on the experience.
    Also wow! I cannot believe you only took in 800 calories that sounds like it would be extremely difficult and sounds dangerous. Was it prebottled and those were the guidelines when you juiced? I really try to get at least 1200 and track everything i put in my juices. sometimes I'm over and sometimes slightly under. thanks

    ok. Keep at it and good health.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    @brianpperkins what I just stated is unrelated I was discussing a terms meaning. Zero undermining there.

    @RedBeardBruce. thanks. My words are being picked apart when I'm expressing my personal experience. Its become repetitive. It seems as though you might have understood somewhat what i was attempting to explain the entire time.
    Seeing as though you have done both before, people can hear from someone with experience and how they felt about it. I appreciate your opinion on the experience.
    Also wow! I cannot believe you only took in 800 calories that sounds like it would be extremely difficult and sounds dangerous. Was it prebottled and those were the guidelines when you juiced? I really try to get at least 1200 and track everything i put in my juices. sometimes I'm over and sometimes slightly under. thanks

    The fact you don't grasp it doesn't mean it isn't there. You cited a flawed video as a source then called it am experiment. You're supporting a position countered by science.

    If your words are so easily "picked apart" on a forum based on their content, any lawyer or judge familiar with the law will destroy you in your chosen profession.
  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote:
    Since our bodies can't store protein in useable form
    :confused: Muscles aren't usable?
  • brittny0627
    brittny0627 Posts: 22 Member
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    I've already stated that this isn't court and there I never claimed it as evidence, simply fascinating. I also stated the ways in which the word experiment can be used and that the term isn't exclusive to the scientific process. You do not grasp those aspects of my responses.

    Also I'm doing well in my career and also in court 2-0, but thanks for the kind and very relevant thoughts!
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
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    brittny0627 wrote: »
    I've already stated that this isn't court and there I never claimed it as evidence, simply fascinating. I also stated the ways in which the word experiment can be used and that the term isn't exclusive to the scientific process. You do not grasp those aspects of my responses.

    Also I'm doing well in my career and also in court 2-0, but thanks for the kind and very relevant thoughts!

    I grasp everything you are trying to say
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    There are better odds of talking Daesh out of their positions than there are of logic convincing the pro juicing crowd to abandon their fallacies.
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
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    brianpperkins wrote: »
    There are better odds of talking Daesh out of their positions than there are of logic convincing the pro juicing crowd to abandon their fallacies.

  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
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