The cleaner you eat, the less you enjoy processed flavours?!
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
Some of those items probably have "natural" strawberry flavor though -- my point is that the "artificiality" of the flavor probably isn't an issue (unless you're using in a different way than usual).
You may like strawberries, but dislike strawberry-flavored items (whether that flavor is natural or artificial).
I'll disagree.
I can tell the difference between naturally flavored and artificially flavored items for at least some flavors. Vanilla is a big one - I can distinguish real vanilla extract or vanilla bean paste from vanillin a mile away. So is orange. I actually prefer artificial orange flavoring to the mix or natural orange oils and extracts they use to flavor orange juice these days. I can definitely tell artificial marshmallow flavoring from real marshmallow even with real marshmallows present (Toll House hot cocoa cookies - couldn't eat them, the filling tasted too 'off' even with real marshmallows throughout)
I'm not talking about vanilla extract though -- I'm talking about ingredients like "natural flavor" that are vanilla flavored. I can also taste the difference between vanilla and vanillin.
I can distinguish those as 'not vanilla extract/paste' as well. In my head, I tend to lump those in with artificial flavorings even though the components are natural. I can distinguish between natural vanilla flavoring and vanillin, too. Vanillin is really far off of what it should taste like. Natural vanilla flavoring is still not right but less harsh tasting than vanillin and lacking the complexity of actual vanilla.
Basically, for some flavors I can tell the difference between a flavor made mainly from the actual thing, and a flavoring put together by humans to mimic the taste of that thing regardless of the naturalness or artificiality of the components. It doesn't say anything about which I prefer for a particular flavoring, though.
I think being able to distinguish between an actual ingredient and a flavoring is pretty common. I'm talking about what was mentioned above -- the ability to distinguish between a natural and an artificial flavor. That's what I'm skeptical about.
If someone told me they could distinguish between natural strawberry flavor (which was created in a lab and doesn't include any component of strawberries but is legally entitled to the natural designation) and artificial strawberry flavor (which was also created in a lab and doesn't include any component of strawberries but is legally obligated to be labelled "artificial"), I would be skeptical.
Setting aside oils and extracts and all that, I don't think the human palate can distinguish between a natural and an artificial flavor with any degree of reliability.
Why not? Two different flavorings with two different sets of components and almost guaranteed different flavor profiles. Both attempts to mimic something else. Some of the attempts taste similar enough that people can't tell the difference but I bet most would be easily distinguishable unless masked by other ingredients in the final product (yogurt or ice cream or whatever).
If you mean that most can't tell just by tasting an unknown flavoring whether it is made from natural or artificial components, then sure. It just tastes like a mimicry.
They don't have different sets of components. Many natural and artificial flavorings have the same components and they replicate the same flavor profiles. That's my point -- I do mean that most people (I would say probably virtually all people) cannot tell the difference between a natural and an artificial flavor by taste.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »
Cookies (and the like), candy, frozen dinners, lots of packaged/canned/boxed things (with exceptions).lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
Knowing it's literally impossible to avoid processed food, I just try to avoid the overtly processed things. I most certainly eat rice, ground meat, bread (rarely, not a fan of bread in general), canned beans and frozen vegetables.
Homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed in my eyes. I'd make my own every time over a generic store-bought one for sure. I know precisely and exactly what's going in it, meaning I can probably make it with everything currently in my pantry and know what each ingredient is without having to whip out Google...
But holidays or special occasions? I'm throwing all this out of the window. Give me ALL the processed junk!
I'm confused. I mean, I agree my homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed and fits the definition of junk food. Are you saying it is "processed junky stuff"? And if so, does it not taste as good as remembered? (Well, not my particular version, as you haven't had it.) ;-)
I am a total snob about baked goods -- I love well-made cookies, pies, crisps, bread, so on, and pretty much can't stand most mass-market varieties. Same with chocolate -- I can easily pass up most grocery-store candy (except for peanut M&Ms, which are a weakness), but give me some fancy artisan chocolate and I will enjoy the heck out of it. I'm less picky about ice cream, I guess, as there are a variety of options in the supermarket (Talenti) that I enjoy, but I do have a penchant for interesting homemade varieties or the cardamon gelato on offer at a restaurant or the like. What I'm thinking is that ALL of these things are processed, of course, and all fit the definition of "junk food" (based on the calories per nutrient ratio), so the question is whether having these foods more rarely makes me less likely to enjoy them.
For me, no. Indeed, the things I really enjoy, I probably enjoy even more when I eat them more rarely, which is why I partake on holidays and other special occasions in my pie. Not only that, but I'm personally really glad that eating a healthful diet doesn't make me unable to enjoy these foods or some others that don't fit so easily into my nutrition plan without a bit of work. I don't see disliking pie or fish and chips as something to be pursued. Now, does it bother me that I've never much cared for McD's or frozen TV dinners? No, not particularly. But I feel like some people are going quite far the other way and saying that if you like those icky processed or junk foods, well, you must not appreciate home cooking or vegetables or the like and don't care about your health!
I was assuming that this meant anything in a box, frozen, or packaged, fast food (Mickey D's, Pizza Hut, taco Bell) in some way that is cheap, easy to grab and contains things that you can't pronounce.
I too bake and love love baked goods and while they are sweet or savory, they are baked with things that are processed but not the same in my eyes as that box of Mac and Cheese or bag of Doritos I mentioned above.
So I am confused here now to a bit and although I bake, I cook my own food every day and night and I do indulge in some M&M's does not make my diet dirty does it?0 -
To get back on topic here,
I could still down a box of kraft mac and cheese, Krispy cream donuts, Doritos, chips ahoy, and oh my god Cheetos, and I actually really love my "birthday cake" flavored protein powder...
I may be missing something, but I really never ate dirty to begin with, I just eat a whole lot less of the stuff above.
"clean eating" phrase? Who came up with this?
there is no such thing as clean or dirty foods....that is the crux of the matter, people just like to come up with labels for things so that they can make money off of other people.
food = food.
All food gives you the same amount of energy; so one calorie of carrot = one calorie of oreo; however, they do not contain the same nutritional profile.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »
Cookies (and the like), candy, frozen dinners, lots of packaged/canned/boxed things (with exceptions).lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
Knowing it's literally impossible to avoid processed food, I just try to avoid the overtly processed things. I most certainly eat rice, ground meat, bread (rarely, not a fan of bread in general), canned beans and frozen vegetables.
Homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed in my eyes. I'd make my own every time over a generic store-bought one for sure. I know precisely and exactly what's going in it, meaning I can probably make it with everything currently in my pantry and know what each ingredient is without having to whip out Google...
But holidays or special occasions? I'm throwing all this out of the window. Give me ALL the processed junk!
I'm confused. I mean, I agree my homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed and fits the definition of junk food. Are you saying it is "processed junky stuff"? And if so, does it not taste as good as remembered? (Well, not my particular version, as you haven't had it.) ;-)
I am a total snob about baked goods -- I love well-made cookies, pies, crisps, bread, so on, and pretty much can't stand most mass-market varieties. Same with chocolate -- I can easily pass up most grocery-store candy (except for peanut M&Ms, which are a weakness), but give me some fancy artisan chocolate and I will enjoy the heck out of it. I'm less picky about ice cream, I guess, as there are a variety of options in the supermarket (Talenti) that I enjoy, but I do have a penchant for interesting homemade varieties or the cardamon gelato on offer at a restaurant or the like. What I'm thinking is that ALL of these things are processed, of course, and all fit the definition of "junk food" (based on the calories per nutrient ratio), so the question is whether having these foods more rarely makes me less likely to enjoy them.
For me, no. Indeed, the things I really enjoy, I probably enjoy even more when I eat them more rarely, which is why I partake on holidays and other special occasions in my pie. Not only that, but I'm personally really glad that eating a healthful diet doesn't make me unable to enjoy these foods or some others that don't fit so easily into my nutrition plan without a bit of work. I don't see disliking pie or fish and chips as something to be pursued. Now, does it bother me that I've never much cared for McD's or frozen TV dinners? No, not particularly. But I feel like some people are going quite far the other way and saying that if you like those icky processed or junk foods, well, you must not appreciate home cooking or vegetables or the like and don't care about your health!
I was assuming that this meant anything in a box, frozen, or packaged, fast food (Mickey D's, Pizza Hut, taco Bell) in some way that is cheap, easy to grab and contains things that you can't pronounce.
I too bake and love love baked goods and while they are sweet or savory, they are baked with things that are processed but not the same in my eyes as that box of Mac and Cheese or bag of Doritos I mentioned above.
So I am confused here now to a bit and although I bake, I cook my own food every day and night and I do indulge in some M&M's does not make my diet dirty does it?
I'm struggling to see why something being "easy to grab" or less expensive would make it junkier than a homemade item with a similar profile for calories and nutrition. Why is one "junk" and the other not? I get that one might taste better (maybe, I've had some easy to grab and inexpensive foods that were very tasty), but I don't get why those qualities would make something junkier.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »
Cookies (and the like), candy, frozen dinners, lots of packaged/canned/boxed things (with exceptions).lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
Knowing it's literally impossible to avoid processed food, I just try to avoid the overtly processed things. I most certainly eat rice, ground meat, bread (rarely, not a fan of bread in general), canned beans and frozen vegetables.
Homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed in my eyes. I'd make my own every time over a generic store-bought one for sure. I know precisely and exactly what's going in it, meaning I can probably make it with everything currently in my pantry and know what each ingredient is without having to whip out Google...
But holidays or special occasions? I'm throwing all this out of the window. Give me ALL the processed junk!
I'm confused. I mean, I agree my homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed and fits the definition of junk food. Are you saying it is "processed junky stuff"? And if so, does it not taste as good as remembered? (Well, not my particular version, as you haven't had it.) ;-)
I am a total snob about baked goods -- I love well-made cookies, pies, crisps, bread, so on, and pretty much can't stand most mass-market varieties. Same with chocolate -- I can easily pass up most grocery-store candy (except for peanut M&Ms, which are a weakness), but give me some fancy artisan chocolate and I will enjoy the heck out of it. I'm less picky about ice cream, I guess, as there are a variety of options in the supermarket (Talenti) that I enjoy, but I do have a penchant for interesting homemade varieties or the cardamon gelato on offer at a restaurant or the like. What I'm thinking is that ALL of these things are processed, of course, and all fit the definition of "junk food" (based on the calories per nutrient ratio), so the question is whether having these foods more rarely makes me less likely to enjoy them.
For me, no. Indeed, the things I really enjoy, I probably enjoy even more when I eat them more rarely, which is why I partake on holidays and other special occasions in my pie. Not only that, but I'm personally really glad that eating a healthful diet doesn't make me unable to enjoy these foods or some others that don't fit so easily into my nutrition plan without a bit of work. I don't see disliking pie or fish and chips as something to be pursued. Now, does it bother me that I've never much cared for McD's or frozen TV dinners? No, not particularly. But I feel like some people are going quite far the other way and saying that if you like those icky processed or junk foods, well, you must not appreciate home cooking or vegetables or the like and don't care about your health!
I was assuming that this meant anything in a box, frozen, or packaged, fast food (Mickey D's, Pizza Hut, taco Bell) in some way that is cheap, easy to grab and contains things that you can't pronounce.
I too bake and love love baked goods and while they are sweet or savory, they are baked with things that are processed but not the same in my eyes as that box of Mac and Cheese or bag of Doritos I mentioned above.
So I am confused here now to a bit and although I bake, I cook my own food every day and night and I do indulge in some M&M's does not make my diet dirty does it?
I've always assumed it did, which is why I assume my own diet would not be considered "clean." (Luckily I don't care, I just find it odd when people claim not to eat processed foods when they seem to eat many of the same things I do, that I consider disqualifying.)0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »"clean eating" phrase? Who came up with this?
This is a question I tried to answer for myself a while ago. An internet search didn't provide any answers. It's been around for a really long time. It may not be older than me but I heard the phrase long before I heard of the internet. I seem to associate it with hippies.
I had not, however, ever heard the term "dirty food" until I joined MFP.0 -
disagree...
and how are you defining processed foods?
You do realize that the protein shake that you are drinking is highly processed, right?
I re-phrased earlier and changed to specify artificial flavours verses natural ones. Believe me I've been doing this for nearly 3 years now I'm nicely educated, i always thought my mum was crazy for saying "the less I eat crisps the less I enjoy them" but I now fully understand!
I agree with everything you said and pretty much experience the same.
I also started to feel unwell after certain 'fast foods' that I used to enjoy.
I have also totally gone off anything "creamy" for some reason, like very frothy coffees or cream cakes.0 -
I feel like once you realize that other foods satisfy you just as well, or better, junk-y foods just become less interesting. The problem is if you don't know how to satisfy your body then you go back to eating foods that may not be good for you.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
Some of those items probably have "natural" strawberry flavor though -- my point is that the "artificiality" of the flavor probably isn't an issue (unless you're using in a different way than usual).
You may like strawberries, but dislike strawberry-flavored items (whether that flavor is natural or artificial).
I'll disagree.
I can tell the difference between naturally flavored and artificially flavored items for at least some flavors. Vanilla is a big one - I can distinguish real vanilla extract or vanilla bean paste from vanillin a mile away. So is orange. I actually prefer artificial orange flavoring to the mix or natural orange oils and extracts they use to flavor orange juice these days. I can definitely tell artificial marshmallow flavoring from real marshmallow even with real marshmallows present (Toll House hot cocoa cookies - couldn't eat them, the filling tasted too 'off' even with real marshmallows throughout)
I'm not talking about vanilla extract though -- I'm talking about ingredients like "natural flavor" that are vanilla flavored. I can also taste the difference between vanilla and vanillin.
I can distinguish those as 'not vanilla extract/paste' as well. In my head, I tend to lump those in with artificial flavorings even though the components are natural. I can distinguish between natural vanilla flavoring and vanillin, too. Vanillin is really far off of what it should taste like. Natural vanilla flavoring is still not right but less harsh tasting than vanillin and lacking the complexity of actual vanilla.
Basically, for some flavors I can tell the difference between a flavor made mainly from the actual thing, and a flavoring put together by humans to mimic the taste of that thing regardless of the naturalness or artificiality of the components. It doesn't say anything about which I prefer for a particular flavoring, though.
I think being able to distinguish between an actual ingredient and a flavoring is pretty common. I'm talking about what was mentioned above -- the ability to distinguish between a natural and an artificial flavor. That's what I'm skeptical about.
If someone told me they could distinguish between natural strawberry flavor (which was created in a lab and doesn't include any component of strawberries but is legally entitled to the natural designation) and artificial strawberry flavor (which was also created in a lab and doesn't include any component of strawberries but is legally obligated to be labelled "artificial"), I would be skeptical.
Setting aside oils and extracts and all that, I don't think the human palate can distinguish between a natural and an artificial flavor with any degree of reliability.
Why not? Two different flavorings with two different sets of components and almost guaranteed different flavor profiles. Both attempts to mimic something else. Some of the attempts taste similar enough that people can't tell the difference but I bet most would be easily distinguishable unless masked by other ingredients in the final product (yogurt or ice cream or whatever).
If you mean that most can't tell just by tasting an unknown flavoring whether it is made from natural or artificial components, then sure. It just tastes like a mimicry.
They don't have different sets of components. Many natural and artificial flavorings have the same components and they replicate the same flavor profiles. That's my point -- I do mean that most people (I would say probably virtually all people) cannot tell the difference between a natural and an artificial flavor by taste.
Yes, when you have an artificial flavoring that exactly replicates the natural one in every respect save the derivation source it would of course taste the same. Some do. Most don't.0 -
Yes, homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is "processed junky stuff" - the last time I ate a strawberry-rhubarb pie (maybe two Thanksgivings' ago) all I had was one single bite because it was far too sweet for me. I don't remember ever being bothered by the sweetness of pie before. It was a let down for sure... It wasn't what I remember at all, and it was my mothers cherished homemade pie to boot.lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »
Cookies (and the like), candy, frozen dinners, lots of packaged/canned/boxed things (with exceptions).lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
Knowing it's literally impossible to avoid processed food, I just try to avoid the overtly processed things. I most certainly eat rice, ground meat, bread (rarely, not a fan of bread in general), canned beans and frozen vegetables.
Homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed in my eyes. I'd make my own every time over a generic store-bought one for sure. I know precisely and exactly what's going in it, meaning I can probably make it with everything currently in my pantry and know what each ingredient is without having to whip out Google...
But holidays or special occasions? I'm throwing all this out of the window. Give me ALL the processed junk!
I'm confused. I mean, I agree my homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed and fits the definition of junk food. Are you saying it is "processed junky stuff"? And if so, does it not taste as good as remembered? (Well, not my particular version, as you haven't had it.) ;-)
I am a total snob about baked goods -- I love well-made cookies, pies, crisps, bread, so on, and pretty much can't stand most mass-market varieties. Same with chocolate -- I can easily pass up most grocery-store candy (except for peanut M&Ms, which are a weakness), but give me some fancy artisan chocolate and I will enjoy the heck out of it. I'm less picky about ice cream, I guess, as there are a variety of options in the supermarket (Talenti) that I enjoy, but I do have a penchant for interesting homemade varieties or the cardamon gelato on offer at a restaurant or the like. What I'm thinking is that ALL of these things are processed, of course, and all fit the definition of "junk food" (based on the calories per nutrient ratio), so the question is whether having these foods more rarely makes me less likely to enjoy them.
For me, no. Indeed, the things I really enjoy, I probably enjoy even more when I eat them more rarely, which is why I partake on holidays and other special occasions in my pie. Not only that, but I'm personally really glad that eating a healthful diet doesn't make me unable to enjoy these foods or some others that don't fit so easily into my nutrition plan without a bit of work. I don't see disliking pie or fish and chips as something to be pursued. Now, does it bother me that I've never much cared for McD's or frozen TV dinners? No, not particularly. But I feel like some people are going quite far the other way and saying that if you like those icky processed or junk foods, well, you must not appreciate home cooking or vegetables or the like and don't care about your health!
I am the EXACT same way about baked goods and chocolate. If I'm going to indulge it is far, far away from the mass-produced stuff you can just grab on the grocery store shelves. I'm going for the high quality stuff from a good bakery or chocolatier. On ice cream/gelato... it's Talenti or bust (but yet again, I recently had my favorite flavor and found it to be unpalatable... I was a little heartbroken). Then again, I deliberately steer clear of Talenti because I can NOT eat it in moderation. Well, now that my last experience tainted what I once loved, I probably won't touch it again anytime soon. :S
And yet, in spite of this, there are certain foods that no matter how seldom I eat them they are ALWAYS delicious. French fries? Check. Pizza? Check. Spaghetti? Check. Macaroni and cheese? Check. Pancakes? Check. Waffles? Check. Bagel and cream cheese? CHECK! Basically don't put me in a room with these things because I will go buck wild.
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I love strawberries, but I can't stand ice cream or yogurt that has artificial strawberry in it. Tastes like mold to me, always has. Strawberry milk is fine though. We have largely removed artificials due to one kid being extremely sensitive to them, but when I do have them they taste no different than they used to.
Maybe I'm just super picky about strawberries though. Store bought ones are usually picked long before they're ripe and gassed to hasten the ripening process, resulting in a ripe looking outer and a hard, bitter inner berry that is not at all juicy. Gross. Get them from a local farm and they are ripe, vibrant and juicy. I buy flats of them in summer and freeze to get me through the winter.0 -
SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »
Cookies (and the like), candy, frozen dinners, lots of packaged/canned/boxed things (with exceptions).lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
Knowing it's literally impossible to avoid processed food, I just try to avoid the overtly processed things. I most certainly eat rice, ground meat, bread (rarely, not a fan of bread in general), canned beans and frozen vegetables.
Homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed in my eyes. I'd make my own every time over a generic store-bought one for sure. I know precisely and exactly what's going in it, meaning I can probably make it with everything currently in my pantry and know what each ingredient is without having to whip out Google...
But holidays or special occasions? I'm throwing all this out of the window. Give me ALL the processed junk!
I'm confused. I mean, I agree my homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed and fits the definition of junk food. Are you saying it is "processed junky stuff"? And if so, does it not taste as good as remembered? (Well, not my particular version, as you haven't had it.) ;-)
I am a total snob about baked goods -- I love well-made cookies, pies, crisps, bread, so on, and pretty much can't stand most mass-market varieties. Same with chocolate -- I can easily pass up most grocery-store candy (except for peanut M&Ms, which are a weakness), but give me some fancy artisan chocolate and I will enjoy the heck out of it. I'm less picky about ice cream, I guess, as there are a variety of options in the supermarket (Talenti) that I enjoy, but I do have a penchant for interesting homemade varieties or the cardamon gelato on offer at a restaurant or the like. What I'm thinking is that ALL of these things are processed, of course, and all fit the definition of "junk food" (based on the calories per nutrient ratio), so the question is whether having these foods more rarely makes me less likely to enjoy them.
For me, no. Indeed, the things I really enjoy, I probably enjoy even more when I eat them more rarely, which is why I partake on holidays and other special occasions in my pie. Not only that, but I'm personally really glad that eating a healthful diet doesn't make me unable to enjoy these foods or some others that don't fit so easily into my nutrition plan without a bit of work. I don't see disliking pie or fish and chips as something to be pursued. Now, does it bother me that I've never much cared for McD's or frozen TV dinners? No, not particularly. But I feel like some people are going quite far the other way and saying that if you like those icky processed or junk foods, well, you must not appreciate home cooking or vegetables or the like and don't care about your health!
Yes, homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is "processed junky stuff" - the last time I ate a strawberry-rhubarb pie (maybe two Thanksgivings' ago) all I had was one single bite because it was far too sweet for me. I don't remember ever being bothered by the sweetness of pie before. It was a let down for sure... It wasn't what I remember at all, and it was my mothers cherished homemade pie to boot.
I find some baked goods too sweet (one reason I rarely like pecan pie, and sometimes people ruin apple with too much sugar), but the great thing about baking it yourself is you can control that.
I don't know -- lots of people claim that sugar really affected their palates in that they didn't like non sugary foods (or appreciate the sweetness of fruits and veg) before cutting way back and now don't like sugary stuff. That was not my experience. Lots of stuff was too sweet for me before (and I hate foods that in my mind aren't supposed to be sweet but are, like sweet salad dressings, and always preferred dry wine), but that never prevented me from enjoying plenty of sweet foods. And so it's not surprising that I continue to enjoy various sweet foods (while still finding some others not good or too sweet).I am the EXACT same way about baked goods and chocolate. If I'm going to indulge it is far, far away from the mass-produced stuff you can just grab on the grocery store shelves. I'm going for the high quality stuff from a good bakery or chocolatier. On ice cream/gelato... it's Talenti or bust (but yet again, I recently had my favorite flavor and found it to be unpalatable... I was a little heartbroken). Then again, I deliberately steer clear of Talenti because I can NOT eat it in moderation. Well, now that my last experience tainted what I once loved, I probably won't touch it again anytime soon. :S
And yet, in spite of this, there are certain foods that no matter how seldom I eat them they are ALWAYS delicious. French fries? Check. Pizza? Check. Spaghetti? Check. Macaroni and cheese? Check. Pancakes? Check. Waffles? Check. Bagel and cream cheese? CHECK! Basically don't put me in a room with these things because I will go buck wild.
Okay, so at least we agree that enjoying lots of stereotypically healthy foods and eating a generally healthful diet does not automatically make you unable to appreciate any higher cal foods. That's the claim that was puzzling me! ;-)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Mapalicious wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
It's quite subjective, I'd imagine. And if it helps people, then they should go for it, I think.
I don't eat mcDs, taco bell, burger king, arby's, and a host of other places because i find it gross tasting and gross smelling. I don't eat pop-tarts, I don't eat oreos or chips ahoy or those cheap crappy cookies. I don't eat doritos or cheesy poofs. I don't eat most cereal, flavored milk, soda. I don't eat soggy weird frozen dinners.
But I have 'processed' stuff all the time. But for me, those are some things that are on my personal list of "processed junky stuff" that I am happy to stay away from. Nothing scientific about it at all.
We have similar tastes, it seems. But I don't stay away from the foods I dislike because they are more "processed junky stuff" than the paczki my Polish-American co-worker brought from her family's bakery on Tuesday. (Also processed, in that it was not made by me, from processed ingredients like flour and sugar, and also "junk food" as normally defined). I stay away because why waste calories on food you don't like?
Personally, my tastes haven't changed -- I didn't like the kinds of foods you mention back when I was fat, and I don't not like my old favorite high cal indulgences (curry and naan, really good pie) now that I'm not.
We started at a different place, then. I was the only child of a single mom...this meant being home alone and feeding myself starting at 13 or so. Got a job at 14 in a strip mall. This meant, for me, I ate a LOT of *kitten*. And HOLY FLIP could I pack it down. 1/2 jars of frosting. 1/2 packs of oreos. Giant arby's cheese steaks. Dang. 290 lbs at the age of 16 didn't look so great...or feel so great.
Like I said the definition of "processed junky" is entirely subjective, and has little to do with being literally "processed" or not. For me, it's more about nutrient content, and what tastes good. I find the *kitten* I listed gross-tasting. I also think placing Indian food and flour in the same camp as chicken nuggets and soda doesn't quite make sense. But whatevs...i'm not here to tell other people what to do. Just stating how I feel.
I don't avoid them BECAUSE they are what I define personally as "processed junky" though. I avoid what I find gross tasting.0 -
The book I was pulling nutritional content from cited the "Nutritionist Pro Nutrition Analysis Software v2.5, 3.1" as the source for showing that 100calories of broccoli contains 11g of protein while steak only contains 6g.
Since I'm not going to go and purchase that software to verify the information, I went to the USDA national nutrient database, which according to the software is the source for their database.
I posted a side by side comparison of each food below.
While it does not show broccoli having twice as much or "nearly" twice as much protein per 100 calories as steak, it still shows that broccoli actually does have more protein. There's this mindset that to get protein you have to eat meat, but it isn't true. Green vegetables have protein in them. When you take into account the vitamin and mineral content it becomes much easier to make a decision about what to eat.
Portions wise, for people who are struggling with their weight the larger amounts of vegetables make much more sense. I want to snack on something... eat some vegetables. I'm still hungry... eat more vegetables. The trick with vegetables is you can eat as much as you want. Why in the world would someone who is struggling with over eating want to eat 50g of steak for an intake of 100 calories when they could eat almost a pound of broccoli for the same caloric content, laughably superior nutritional content, and a full stomach. Obviously nobody is going to sit down and power eat a pound of raw broccoli. I put away a couple of pounds of vegetables a day, further augment my protein intake with legumes but I still at the end of the day close out typically with steamed tilapia, or chicken breast (once or twice a week). I limit my red meat intake to once a week but only if I'm craving it. If I'm craving something outside of my eating plan I have a meal a week that I allot to eating wtfever I want. But that's only if I'm craving it, if I'm not craving it then I don't. It's just built into the system as a steam vent so I don't go crazy.
Again, this is what works for me and it doesn't imply it is going to work for everyone. I don't do moderation, I have no tolerance for it. If you're an addict, you're an addict and I've never seen someone smoking crack in moderation. The only way I have had any success in negating the cravings for foods which are ultimately detrimental to my health are to replace them with something else. When I'm fit and active it is a completely different story but when I'm in the process of slogging off 100+ lbs and getting my high (unmedicated) blood pressure down, I don't have time to live in fairy tale land where going and eating pizza in moderation is just fine.
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Mapalicious wrote: »I also think placing Indian food and flour in the same camp as chicken nuggets and soda doesn't quite make sense.
Whether it does or not (I don't really classify foods as "junky" or not, but focus on whether they fit into my diet and goals and whether I like them), when people generalize about "processed" or "non-homecooked" or the like that is precisely what they are doing. That's what many of us find confusing about the claims that "processed" food are bad. When someone says "processed" I don't think fast food or storebought "junk food." I think about the specific processed foods I eat, like cottage cheese and smoked salmon and dried pasta and various restaurant meals.
As for the Indian food, all I said is that they were among my old high cal indulgences that I still like, and that is so. Also, both that and the chicken nuggets (although not my thing) can fit in an overall healthy diet, both may require some juggling to do so (the Indian food is likely higher cal, if from a restaurant, than many fast food meals), and both may be foods that people have trouble eating in moderation.
Anyway, I don't see us really disagreeing. I think it's quite sensible to avoid what you do not like (unless it's something like vegetables, which most people should probably include in their diets and so learn to like if they don't), and I also think that what we eat helps form out palates.0 -
I don't notice a distinction in artificial/processed flavors, but I will say that the less sugar I eat, the less sugar I crave or can tolerate. A lot of foods you might call artificial or processed have a much more overpowering flavor because of the overwhelming sweetness of all the sugar in them. So strawberry ice cream is strawberry flavored AND ten times the sugar of strawberries.0
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Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them.
Nah, disagree. The Funyun is a spectacular human achievement. I salute the brilliant men & women wizards toiling away in their food engineering labs. A true mesh of art and science!
I appreciate my snaxxx, because they're not the foundations of my food supply. They're happy little accents and I try to enjoy them for what they are.
Anyways, to add to the broader course this thread has taken: my suspicious-antenna goes up when people say the word "processed." Especially when devoid of (more important) context like calories and macro ratios. Even worse is when it's a foodie ranting about the provenance of food X or some other minor detail, but the ranter is obese? It means they've lost the plot.
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The book I was pulling nutritional content from cited the "Nutritionist Pro Nutrition Analysis Software v2.5, 3.1" as the source for showing that 100calories of broccoli contains 11g of protein while steak only contains 6g.
Since I'm not going to go and purchase that software to verify the information, I went to the USDA national nutrient database, which according to the software is the source for their database.
I posted a side by side comparison of each food below.
While it does not show broccoli having twice as much or "nearly" twice as much protein per 100 calories as steak, it still shows that broccoli actually does have more protein. There's this mindset that to get protein you have to eat meat, but it isn't true. Green vegetables have protein in them. When you take into account the vitamin and mineral content it becomes much easier to make a decision about what to eat.
Portions wise, for people who are struggling with their weight the larger amounts of vegetables make much more sense. I want to snack on something... eat some vegetables. I'm still hungry... eat more vegetables. The trick with vegetables is you can eat as much as you want. Why in the world would someone who is struggling with over eating want to eat 50g of steak for an intake of 100 calories when they could eat almost a pound of broccoli for the same caloric content, laughably superior nutritional content, and a full stomach. Obviously nobody is going to sit down and power eat a pound of raw broccoli. I put away a couple of pounds of vegetables a day, further augment my protein intake with legumes but I still at the end of the day close out typically with steamed tilapia, or chicken breast (once or twice a week). I limit my red meat intake to once a week but only if I'm craving it. If I'm craving something outside of my eating plan I have a meal a week that I allot to eating wtfever I want. But that's only if I'm craving it, if I'm not craving it then I don't. It's just built into the system as a steam vent so I don't go crazy.
Again, this is what works for me and it doesn't imply it is going to work for everyone. I don't do moderation, I have no tolerance for it. If you're an addict, you're an addict and I've never seen someone smoking crack in moderation. The only way I have had any success in negating the cravings for foods which are ultimately detrimental to my health are to replace them with something else. When I'm fit and active it is a completely different story but when I'm in the process of slogging off 100+ lbs and getting my high (unmedicated) blood pressure down, I don't have time to live in fairy tale land where going and eating pizza in moderation is just fine.
Are you always going to eat multiple pounds of broccoli just to get your protein in?
Also the calories in the broccoli thing don't add up to 100 for some reason, it's 125.0 -
The book I was pulling nutritional content from cited the "Nutritionist Pro Nutrition Analysis Software v2.5, 3.1" as the source for showing that 100calories of broccoli contains 11g of protein while steak only contains 6g.
Since I'm not going to go and purchase that software to verify the information, I went to the USDA national nutrient database, which according to the software is the source for their database.
I posted a side by side comparison of each food below.
While it does not show broccoli having twice as much or "nearly" twice as much protein per 100 calories as steak, it still shows that broccoli actually does have more protein. There's this mindset that to get protein you have to eat meat, but it isn't true. Green vegetables have protein in them. When you take into account the vitamin and mineral content it becomes much easier to make a decision about what to eat.
Portions wise, for people who are struggling with their weight the larger amounts of vegetables make much more sense. I want to snack on something... eat some vegetables. I'm still hungry... eat more vegetables. The trick with vegetables is you can eat as much as you want. Why in the world would someone who is struggling with over eating want to eat 50g of steak for an intake of 100 calories when they could eat almost a pound of broccoli for the same caloric content, laughably superior nutritional content, and a full stomach. Obviously nobody is going to sit down and power eat a pound of raw broccoli. I put away a couple of pounds of vegetables a day, further augment my protein intake with legumes but I still at the end of the day close out typically with steamed tilapia, or chicken breast (once or twice a week). I limit my red meat intake to once a week but only if I'm craving it. If I'm craving something outside of my eating plan I have a meal a week that I allot to eating wtfever I want. But that's only if I'm craving it, if I'm not craving it then I don't. It's just built into the system as a steam vent so I don't go crazy.
Again, this is what works for me and it doesn't imply it is going to work for everyone. I don't do moderation, I have no tolerance for it. If you're an addict, you're an addict and I've never seen someone smoking crack in moderation. The only way I have had any success in negating the cravings for foods which are ultimately detrimental to my health are to replace them with something else. When I'm fit and active it is a completely different story but when I'm in the process of slogging off 100+ lbs and getting my high (unmedicated) blood pressure down, I don't have time to live in fairy tale land where going and eating pizza in moderation is just fine.
I wouldn't eat 50 grams of steak...I'd eat 4-6 ounces of a nice lean sirloin or something and have a nice side of broccoli (I'm usually around 100 grams or so) or something and probably a baked potato and it would be a well balanced and nutritious meal and IMO, perfectly "clean".0 -
Good grief I go to work and come back to all this! I must say I'm pleased I was able to spark such a uh... lively debate it seems to have morphed into some other points of discussion but has made for a thoroughly entertaining read! I apriciate those who tried to relate to my point, and do not worry there was no offence taken this end (apart from being told what "my issue is" by someone who has never met me
) and it's good too see such a wide range of attitudes towards different food types! Cheers all solid answers to my original question! 0 -
The book I was pulling nutritional content from cited the "Nutritionist Pro Nutrition Analysis Software v2.5, 3.1" as the source for showing that 100calories of broccoli contains 11g of protein while steak only contains 6g.
Since I'm not going to go and purchase that software to verify the information, I went to the USDA national nutrient database, which according to the software is the source for their database.
I posted a side by side comparison of each food below.
While it does not show broccoli having twice as much or "nearly" twice as much protein per 100 calories as steak, it still shows that broccoli actually does have more protein. There's this mindset that to get protein you have to eat meat, but it isn't true. Green vegetables have protein in them. When you take into account the vitamin and mineral content it becomes much easier to make a decision about what to eat.
Portions wise, for people who are struggling with their weight the larger amounts of vegetables make much more sense. I want to snack on something... eat some vegetables. I'm still hungry... eat more vegetables. The trick with vegetables is you can eat as much as you want. Why in the world would someone who is struggling with over eating want to eat 50g of steak for an intake of 100 calories when they could eat almost a pound of broccoli for the same caloric content, laughably superior nutritional content, and a full stomach. Obviously nobody is going to sit down and power eat a pound of raw broccoli. I put away a couple of pounds of vegetables a day, further augment my protein intake with legumes but I still at the end of the day close out typically with steamed tilapia, or chicken breast (once or twice a week). I limit my red meat intake to once a week but only if I'm craving it. If I'm craving something outside of my eating plan I have a meal a week that I allot to eating wtfever I want. But that's only if I'm craving it, if I'm not craving it then I don't. It's just built into the system as a steam vent so I don't go crazy.
Again, this is what works for me and it doesn't imply it is going to work for everyone. I don't do moderation, I have no tolerance for it. If you're an addict, you're an addict and I've never seen someone smoking crack in moderation. The only way I have had any success in negating the cravings for foods which are ultimately detrimental to my health are to replace them with something else. When I'm fit and active it is a completely different story but when I'm in the process of slogging off 100+ lbs and getting my high (unmedicated) blood pressure down, I don't have time to live in fairy tale land where going and eating pizza in moderation is just fine.
According to this:
http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2871?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=35&offset=&sort=&qlookup=broccoli
100 calories of broccoli has 8.34g of protein
and http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/7323?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=35&offset=&sort=&qlookup=top+sirlon
Top sirlon beef would have 14.91g of protein per 100 calories, or almost twice as much.
This is also ignoring the fact that 100 calories of beef is less than 2 ounces; while 100 calories of broccoli is about three cups worth. To get the equivalent protein from less than 2 ounces of beef, one would need to consume almost 5 1/2 cups of broccoli.
Now I love broccoli, but if you think I'm going to down 20+ cups of it, vs eating an 8 oz steak...0 -
This is the entry for "broccoli, raw" which is above "broccoli, frozen" that you chose to show.
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Thank you @juggernaut1974 and @stevencloser for pointing that out... saved me the trouble. I've been lurking, because I find threads like this highly entertaining, but it gets my goat when someone presents data in that way. You can't compare frozen broccoli to a fatty cut of beef no matter how delicious both are. They can each have their place in a well-rounded diet, and if you choose to abstain from/partake of either (for whatever reason), it's not going to cause you catastrophic harm - or change your palate (though eating 5 cups of broccoli on a regular basis might ). 0
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I love this has become a "steak V broccoli" debate, not one I ever thought I'd see!!0
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Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them. Even down to my protein shake, the false strawberry just tasted horrible today! I guess it's good that I'd rather eat an omlette than a doughnut (same cals!) But it can be annoying when out with friends as it's hard to not look like a food snob in restaurants! !
I agree sorta, but when I think of processed food I think of Lean Cuisine and other frozen meals. Beyond that, ehh, anything goes.0 -
I love this has become a "steak V broccoli" debate, not one I ever thought I'd see!!
That's the difficulty with "clean eating" discussions...one man's perfectly awesome and nutritious food is another man's filth...
The general lack of nutritional knowledge doesn't help much either.0 -
Well, this was basically mooted by the posts while I was writing it, but to add to them anyway:
Another issue with the steak comparison is that there are numerous cuts called "steak" by the USDA. Here are two showing the key difference (fat content):
23601, Beef, tenderloin, steak, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/8" fat, all grades, raw
100 grams=22 g protein; 100 calories=15 g protein
13917, Beef, tenderloin, steak, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 1/8" fat, all grades, raw
100 grams=20 g protein; 100 calories=8 g protein
For broccoli:
11090, Broccoli, raw
100 grams=3 g protein; 100 calories=8 g protein
So for just 30 grams of protein (say one meal), I could eat 136 g (raw) of the leaner steak, which would be about 208 calories. Makes sense as part of a balanced dinner with some vegetables and maybe a starch.
Or, I could eat 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of broccoli. Yes, this would also get me only 340 calories and likely fill me up for a while (I expect I would have a stomach ache). But why is this a good thing? I need about 2100 calories for maintenance and I'm on the smaller side (5'3 woman).0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I love this has become a "steak V broccoli" debate, not one I ever thought I'd see!!
That's the difficulty with "clean eating" discussions...one man's perfectly awesome and nutritious food is another man's filth...
The general lack of nutritional knowledge doesn't help much either.
I just wanted to vent that I'm a bit sad I dont get excited by chicken nuggets or prawn cocktail crisps anymore to be honest lol but yes, I should have known better from these boards what can of worms I was unleashing! I'm sure everyone who logs has some degree of nutritional knowledge though just through observation of what's in your diary
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I was actually just saying to my partner yesterday that the less junk I eat, the better it tastes when I do have it. not sure why. it makes it more like a treat though which helps with only eating it once in a while.0
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Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them. Even down to my protein shake, the false strawberry just tasted horrible today! I guess it's good that I'd rather eat an omlette than a doughnut (same cals!) But it can be annoying when out with friends as it's hard to not look like a food snob in restaurants! !
I must admit i enjoy it even more.
I eat a balanced diet...so everything
Last week going out for 2 days...one ended in a buffet the other one Burger King...
I pigged out and didn't regret anything.
From the Chinese food at the buffet till the next day Burger Kings fries chicken fries Hamburger and huge Oreo shake.... Heaven!
and i will do it all again when we go out lol
And yes i do like my veggies and fruit and all the so called "healthy" stuff But i like all the "unhealthy" too.
So i eat it all...in moderation!
And that is not unhealthy, but normal life and enjoying the heck out of it while not gaining weight.
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