The cleaner you eat, the less you enjoy processed flavours?!
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Mapalicious wrote: »GMOs help save the world.
Organic crops help upper class white people feel unjustifiably better about themselves.
GMOs are a technology that is vastly over-used, under-tested, and making some rich and others poor, and is a political tool. The technology could be used for good. They are by no means "saving the world."
Organic...yes, you hit the nail on the head. It makes people feel better about themselves. But it also helps us consume less cancer-causing pesticides on average, which is pretty sweet.
Organic farmers can use a wide variety of pesticides actually.
GMO's are in fact already saving the world, by greatly increasing yields for farmers, easier adoption of reduced/no till farming which reduces emissions, and aiding soil retention. They would be even more effective if people (many funded by huge organic backers like whole foods) stopped fear mongering about them and we trusted the science, instead of blogger's naturalistic fallacies.
Not the thread for this discussion though. My apologies.
Yea, you're right, it's not the place. I've studied GMOs for 6 years, have many friends who are, or have been, GMO scientists...and it's unfortunately just not the case that they're "saving the world" - even the best GMO scientists I know don't believe that. Best of luck anyway.0 -
I agree! I have learned to make pizza crust with cauliflower, almond flour, or cream cheese all yummy! learning healthier desserts like almond fudge and cheesecake, muffins, with organic flours or make myself with my bullet, the more spices I use the more I crave lean meats, veggies and fruits. My body craves these vs what I used to eat and it doesn't taste as good as I remember, I don't miss carbs like bread, pasta, potatoes but I do miss the sweets, I use stevia only and keep searching and experimenting with healthier options in the dessert section!0
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I started eating clean as a side effect of having to follow a regimented diet regime to get my Rheumatoid Arthritus under control after it took over my body. I did it because my Rheumatologist said I either tried the diet method or nasty dangerous drugs that would harm my liver. No brainer decision! So I promptly gave up meat, dairy, eggs, processed food...and a pile of other things initially that had to be reintroduced later over time.
You should have seen my diet for the first 6 months of the program - so bland, so plain, very raw and VERY green. It then became like baby's first foods : introducing one new food every 3 days to see if I reacted. It took me 9 months and 4 tries to reintroduce things like coffee and wine. I learned a lot about how much patience I have...
After 9 months I was walking without crutches for the first time in 2 years and could lift my arms again to wash my own hair. Some pretty big milestones. My bloods were so good (CRP levels <1 instead of +22) my doc pronounced me cured and said I didn't need the nasty liver damaging drugs anymore.
Having to make a diet change for a reason like this is a bit different to weight loss I suppose. I cant exactly have cheat days lol, it means flare up and discomfort. I can stretch the boundaries and see if I can introduce something new, but there will always be limits. I'll probably never be able to touch animal protein again.
The point relevant to this thread though is : today I literally salivate in the supermarket when I reach the fresh vegetable section. It makes me so hungry looking at it all. Especially fresh leeks for some reason. Yet, if I look at processed food or junk food I feel nothing. It's an empty feeling of...indifference? I think what I have gone through has completely changed my thinking about food to the point where I associate food with medicine. The thought of eating bad medicine, putting myself back to the pain state, is so unappealing that my brain has decided "no thanks" without me having to convince it.
Ok now I'm thinking about those leeks again so I think I'll have to buy some for tonight lol0 -
Terminology matters though. There is a difference between strength training and resistance training. Same with bulky and muscular.Alright alright man its impossible to use any terms on here ! I'll re -phrase, the less artificial flavours I consume the less I enojoy them!
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The book I was pulling nutritional content from cited the "Nutritionist Pro Nutrition Analysis Software v2.5, 3.1" as the source for showing that 100calories of broccoli contains 11g of protein while steak only contains 6g.
Since I'm not going to go and purchase that software to verify the information, I went to the USDA national nutrient database, which according to the software is the source for their database.
I posted a side by side comparison of each food below.
<img snipped>
While it does not show broccoli having twice as much or "nearly" twice as much protein per 100 calories as steak, it still shows that broccoli actually does have more protein. There's this mindset that to get protein you have to eat meat, but it isn't true. Green vegetables have protein in them. When you take into account the vitamin and mineral content it becomes much easier to make a decision about what to eat.
Did you happen to notice that you're comparing 50g (less than 2 ounces) of steak to 384g (almost 14 ounces) of broccoli as you make your claim that broccoli contains more protein than beef? So as long as we're on the ridiculous trend of comparing an all-broccoli diet to an all-steak diet, a person wanting to get 100g of protein per day would have to eat over 8 pounds of broccoli to hit that goal. Or about 9 ounces of beef. And we haven't even begun to talk about the comparative amino acid profiles, bioavailability or PDCAAS scores of the proteins in broccoli vs. beef. I'll save you the trouble of looking them up - beef is a FAR superior protein source in every way.
When you take into account the macro and micronutrient profiles of both foods, it does indeed become much easier to make a decision about what to eat - a nice balance between the two of them. <insert internet meme for "why not both?>
I don't object to those who choose a vegan diet on ethical grounds. I don't share their ethics or concerns, but to each their own. But don't try to make a case that a vegan diet is nutritionally superior to a balanced omnivorous diet because it's not true no matter how much you try to skew numbers or ignore facts.0 -
So the less you eat something the less you enjoy it when exposed to it? That's subjective because one could not eat something regularly and then really enjoy it when they get a chance. Think chocolate covered Macdamia nuts here.disagree...
and how are you defining processed foods?
You do realize that the protein shake that you are drinking is highly processed, right?
I re-phrased earlier and changed to specify artificial flavours verses natural ones. Believe me I've been doing this for nearly 3 years now I'm nicely educated, i always thought my mum was crazy for saying "the less I eat crisps the less I enjoy them" but I now fully understand!
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Eh. I like Jolly Ranchers and they are artificially flavored. The "cherry" doesn't taste like a cherry, but it does taste like "cherry" flavor.kshama2001 wrote: »Disagree. I used to compete and the bland "clean" food I had to eat was not that enjoyable. Yes you can spice it up a little, but it's NOTHING like being able to down a pizza and burgers in the mandatory after comp meal binge that most competitors do. People smiling all the way around.
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Do you still disagree now that she has clarified that she is talking about artificial flavors?
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If you've never competed and got down to single digit body fat %, then you have no idea about "bland" eating. Basically 12-16 weeks of low calorie with NO added salt, butter, oils, etc. You can use things like lemon juice and Mrs. Dash, but eating your food with just those make it....................well bland.Mapalicious wrote: »
I think folks who think "clean" eating is "bland" eating are missing out.
I eat whole foods (80% of my daily diet) consistently. Might add salt and some other "home made" stuff on it. That's my "clean" eating part of the day. The other 20% will consist of things like cookies, candy, etc. and diet soda. But well within my calorie allotment.
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As your point about people eating "clean" and it being "bland" and missing out, is subjective. I'd consider eating a piece of steamed broccoli pretty bland, but throw some MSG and Velveta cheese........I don't feel I'm missing out.Mapalicious wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
It's quite subjective, I'd imagine. And if it helps people, then they should go for it, I think.
I don't eat mcDs, taco bell, burger king, arby's, and a host of other places because i find it gross tasting and gross smelling. I don't eat pop-tarts, I don't eat oreos or chips ahoy or those cheap crappy cookies. I don't eat doritos or cheesy poofs. I don't eat most cereal, flavored milk, soda. I don't eat soggy weird frozen dinners.
But I have 'processed' stuff all the time. But for me, those are some things that are on my personal list of "processed junky stuff" that I am happy to stay away from. Nothing scientific about it at all.
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Not to mention that broccoli will NEVER smell or TASTE like steak. That's why I'm not a vegetarian.juggernaut1974 wrote: »The book I was pulling nutritional content from cited the "Nutritionist Pro Nutrition Analysis Software v2.5, 3.1" as the source for showing that 100calories of broccoli contains 11g of protein while steak only contains 6g.
Since I'm not going to go and purchase that software to verify the information, I went to the USDA national nutrient database, which according to the software is the source for their database.
I posted a side by side comparison of each food below.
While it does not show broccoli having twice as much or "nearly" twice as much protein per 100 calories as steak, it still shows that broccoli actually does have more protein. There's this mindset that to get protein you have to eat meat, but it isn't true. Green vegetables have protein in them. When you take into account the vitamin and mineral content it becomes much easier to make a decision about what to eat.
Portions wise, for people who are struggling with their weight the larger amounts of vegetables make much more sense. I want to snack on something... eat some vegetables. I'm still hungry... eat more vegetables. The trick with vegetables is you can eat as much as you want. Why in the world would someone who is struggling with over eating want to eat 50g of steak for an intake of 100 calories when they could eat almost a pound of broccoli for the same caloric content, laughably superior nutritional content, and a full stomach. Obviously nobody is going to sit down and power eat a pound of raw broccoli. I put away a couple of pounds of vegetables a day, further augment my protein intake with legumes but I still at the end of the day close out typically with steamed tilapia, or chicken breast (once or twice a week). I limit my red meat intake to once a week but only if I'm craving it. If I'm craving something outside of my eating plan I have a meal a week that I allot to eating wtfever I want. But that's only if I'm craving it, if I'm not craving it then I don't. It's just built into the system as a steam vent so I don't go crazy.
Again, this is what works for me and it doesn't imply it is going to work for everyone. I don't do moderation, I have no tolerance for it. If you're an addict, you're an addict and I've never seen someone smoking crack in moderation. The only way I have had any success in negating the cravings for foods which are ultimately detrimental to my health are to replace them with something else. When I'm fit and active it is a completely different story but when I'm in the process of slogging off 100+ lbs and getting my high (unmedicated) blood pressure down, I don't have time to live in fairy tale land where going and eating pizza in moderation is just fine.
According to this:
http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2871?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=35&offset=&sort=&qlookup=broccoli
100 calories of broccoli has 8.34g of protein
and http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/7323?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=35&offset=&sort=&qlookup=top+sirlon
Top sirlon beef would have 14.91g of protein per 100 calories, or almost twice as much.
This is also ignoring the fact that 100 calories of beef is less than 2 ounces; while 100 calories of broccoli is about three cups worth. To get the equivalent protein from less than 2 ounces of beef, one would need to consume almost 5 1/2 cups of broccoli.
Now I love broccoli, but if you think I'm going to down 20+ cups of it, vs eating an 8 oz steak...
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So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
When it comes to taste, of course preferences change based on what you are used to eating. Now, whether this can change in a short time, or if it matters how you grew up or not, I do not know. If you are used to good quality fruit/dairy/oil/meat/wine and so on, you will notice lower quality and imitations. I do not think it has to do with "clean" specifically.0 -
So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
When it comes to taste, of course preferences change based on what you are used to eating. Now, whether this can change in a short time, or if it matters how you grew up or not, I do not know. If you are used to good quality fruit/dairy/oil/meat/wine and so on, you will notice lower quality and imitations. I do not think it has to do with "clean" specifically.
I think you are right.
What has to do with eating "clean"? Probably who starts to eat clean also improve the quality of their diet, because convenience foods are often just a low quality poor choice.0 -
So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
When it comes to taste, of course preferences change based on what you are used to eating. Now, whether this can change in a short time, or if it matters how you grew up or not, I do not know. If you are used to good quality fruit/dairy/oil/meat/wine and so on, you will notice lower quality and imitations. I do not think it has to do with "clean" specifically.
Oh dear I wonder if my very middle class upbringing is a factor here! Can I just clarify also, those challenging me on the term clean that I rephrased within 3 posts when I realised the gravity of my mistake of using one word.0 -
Mapalicious wrote: »GMOs help save the world.
Organic crops help upper class white people feel unjustifiably better about themselves.
GMOs are a technology that is vastly over-used, under-tested, and making some rich and others poor, and is a political tool. The technology could be used for good. They are by no means "saving the world."
Organic...yes, you hit the nail on the head. It makes people feel better about themselves. But it also helps us consume less cancer-causing pesticides on average, which is pretty sweet.
Organic farmers can use a wide variety of pesticides actually.
GMO's are in fact already saving the world, by greatly increasing yields for farmers, easier adoption of reduced/no till farming which reduces emissions, and aiding soil retention. They would be even more effective if people (many funded by huge organic backers like whole foods) stopped fear mongering about them and we trusted the science, instead of blogger's naturalistic fallacies.
Not the thread for this discussion though. My apologies.
You could make one on the band new Debate subforum if you're interested in discussion about this.
I'd like to see it flourish.0 -
^^^ I second that, it would make an interesting read0
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kshama2001 wrote: »Mapalicious wrote: »GMOs help save the world.
Organic crops help upper class white people feel unjustifiably better about themselves.
GMOs are a technology that is vastly over-used, under-tested, and making some rich and others poor, and is a political tool. The technology could be used for good. They are by no means "saving the world."
Organic...yes, you hit the nail on the head. It makes people feel better about themselves. But it also helps us consume less cancer-causing pesticides on average, which is pretty sweet.
Organic farmers can use a wide variety of pesticides actually...
Pesticides are not equally toxic. I have no qualms about using Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) to control cabbage worm.
http://www.bt.ucsd.edu/organic_farming.html
...Bt proteins has been used in many organic farms for over 50 years as a microbial pest control agent (MCPA). Bt proteins are allowed in organic farming as a insecticide because Bt is a natural, non-pathogenic bacterium that is found naturally in the soil. Bt has also been found to be safe to all higher animals tested.
Bt strains account for nearly 90% of the world MPCA market. Most of the Bt products contain insecticidal crystal proteins (ICP) and viable spores (spores that can produce live bacteria). The ICPs are responsible for insect toxicity. ICPs are usually biologically inactive within hours or days. A few products contain inactivated spores.
Typical agricultural formulations include wettable powders, spray concentrates, liquid concentrates, dusts, baits, and time release rings. Bt formulations may be applied to foliage, soil, water environments or food storage facilities. There are many different strains of Bt used, each specific to different insects. Because Bt is species specific, beneficial and non-target insects are usually not harmed...
http://www.bt.ucsd.edu/synthetic_pesticide.html
...The use of synthetic pesticides in agriculture comes with a cost for the environment, and the health of animals and humans.
Danger of synthetic pesticide
The synthetic pesticide DDT was widely used in urban aerial sprays to control urban mosquito, gypsy moth, Japanese beetle and other insects in the 1940’s. By 1972, DDT was banned from the United States due to widespread development of resistance to DDT and evidence that DDT use was increasing preterm births and also harming the environment. DDT was found to cause behavioral anomalies and eggshell thinning in populations of bald eagles and peregrine falcons. Although DDT is banned in the US and many other countries, DDT continues to be manufactured and applied in underdeveloped nations where some of the US food supply is grown.
Dursban, one of the most common pesticide used in households, schools, hospitals and agriculture was banned in 2000 by the USEPA due to unacceptable health risk, especially to children. Toxicology studies have found that exposures to Dursban early in life may affect the function of the nervous system later in life, with possilbe links to changes in normal learning and behavior. Yet, six manufacturers in the US are allowed to continue making the chemical for use on foreign crops.
Types of synthetic pesticide
There are many classes of synthetic pesticides. The main classes consist of organochlorines, organophosphates, carbamates, and pyrethroids. Exposure to pesticides can cause acute (short term) or chronic (long term) effects on animals and humans, especially in the reproductive, endocrine, and central nervous systems.
Oh hey, that bacillus is named after the state I live in. That's cool.
Some articles about toxicity of some organic pesticides:
http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4dmg/PHC/psticid2.htm
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/03/20/myth-busting-are-synthetic-pesticides-used-with-some-gmos-more-dangerous-than-natural-ones/
https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html
It mustn't be forgot that pesticides, organic or not, have the purpose of killing things.0 -
CaitlinW19 wrote: »I do notice when I'm eating healthy though (I eat very little processed foods in general) that I might crave something like a Big Mac and if I give in to the craving I'm always disappointed...the taste doesn't come close to meeting my expectations and, oddly enough, even though I just consumed a TON of calories I don't feel satisfied at all. I stay away from pretty much all fast food for this reason now. It's expensive, I feel guilty and a didn't even enjoy the meal itself. I mean, if you are going to have a good cheat meal, it should be worth it, right?
This, if you're deprived of something you remember liking I think you mentally taste it in your head but you over hype it as well.0 -
So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
When it comes to taste, of course preferences change based on what you are used to eating. Now, whether this can change in a short time, or if it matters how you grew up or not, I do not know. If you are used to good quality fruit/dairy/oil/meat/wine and so on, you will notice lower quality and imitations. I do not think it has to do with "clean" specifically.
Oh dear I wonder if my very middle class upbringing is a factor here! Can I just clarify also, those challenging me on the term clean that I rephrased within 3 posts when I realised the gravity of my mistake of using one word.
Huh???
What does class have to do with this?
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So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
When it comes to taste, of course preferences change based on what you are used to eating. Now, whether this can change in a short time, or if it matters how you grew up or not, I do not know. If you are used to good quality fruit/dairy/oil/meat/wine and so on, you will notice lower quality and imitations. I do not think it has to do with "clean" specifically.
Oh dear I wonder if my very middle class upbringing is a factor here! Can I just clarify also, those challenging me on the term clean that I rephrased within 3 posts when I realised the gravity of my mistake of using one word.
Huh???
What does class have to do with this?
Someone stayed that people who have always eaten higher quality food and wine could identify lower quality by taste. Is plebs must wallow in our interior food choices.0 -
So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
When it comes to taste, of course preferences change based on what you are used to eating. Now, whether this can change in a short time, or if it matters how you grew up or not, I do not know. If you are used to good quality fruit/dairy/oil/meat/wine and so on, you will notice lower quality and imitations. I do not think it has to do with "clean" specifically.
Oh dear I wonder if my very middle class upbringing is a factor here! Can I just clarify also, those challenging me on the term clean that I rephrased within 3 posts when I realised the gravity of my mistake of using one word.
Huh???
What does class have to do with this?
Sigh. The post above. You know what? Tongue in cheek or even mild humour is taken with nothing but offense and I'm not an argumentative person I like a humourus life, so I'm tapping out. Enjoy the thread x0
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