Arguing Semantics - sugar addiction

singingflutelady wrote: »

Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.

I know this is two days old, but this one drives me nuts. And it keeps me from replying to binge threads at all, even though I have experience and advice to share. My advice, though, is going to be completely different for someone experiencing binges that are closer to diagnosable territory than someone using the word to mean I had a bag of potato chips and felt guilty. I can't find a way to give advice there without adding some kind of primer on the two uses of the word "binge" and I just don't have the energy for that anymore.

Sugar/food addiction is similar. Too many prongs to bother replying to those threads. Too many different ways to approach it, not enough energy to create yet another list that's going to be ignored in favor of tl;dr advice from someone willing to agree with the OP's ideas. Semantics matter. They give us the context of the thread and the building blocks of the advice and the tone to use and all of the other things we base our advice on. Good information matters. Always.

100df wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

Posters shouldn't have to pay for the sins of other posters.

I think it's a bit over-dramatic to equate posts you don't particularly care for online with "paying for sins." Sometimes people will write things about you online that you don't care for.

diannethegeek wrote: »

singingflutelady wrote: »

Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.

I know this is two days old, but this one drives me nuts. And it keeps me from replying to binge threads at all, even though I have experience and advice to share. My advice, though, is going to be completely different for someone experiencing binges that are closer to diagnosable territory than someone using the word to mean I had a bag of potato chips and felt guilty. I can't find a way to give advice there without adding some kind of primer on the two uses of the word "binge" and I just don't have the energy for that anymore.

Sugar/food addiction is similar. Too many prongs to bother replying to those threads. Too many different ways to approach it, not enough energy to create yet another list that's going to be ignored in favor of tl;dr advice from someone willing to agree with the OP's ideas. Semantics matter. They give us the context of the thread and the building blocks of the advice and the tone to use and all of the other things we base our advice on. Good information matters. Always.

I haven't had issues with BED but I know so many of you that have. I have really struggled with finding a way of asking the question of an OP as to what they mean when they say they binged - do they mean they just ate over their calorie alotment, that they couldn't put the bag of chips down, or do they mean binge in the truly clinical and compulsive sense of the word the way that I've seen it described on here by those who do have this issue. I've tried to ask the question, and every time, someone acts as if I'm nitpicking or diminishing their experience which is not my intent but again, just trying to understand from their perspective what did they mean so that people can offer appropriate advice. Which is why semantics and the intent of a person's post really do matter, but why it is so frustrating that probing for details about what that user meant is seen to be as an attack, trying to start a debate, or not supportive...

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..

psulemon wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..

I do wish that you wouldn't group everyone together in your posts. As someone who's been through therapy and used it to work through food issues and advised people on these boards to seek therapy or help when it seems like it would help (as we're discussing above) it's not my go-to advice AND it's not insulting to suggest someone seek outside help.

psulemon wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..

If someone finds themselves unable to control what they eat, I think therapy is a really good idea. If it is an actual addiction, professionals are probably the best source of help. If it isn't an actual addiction and it is another type of compulsive behavior, professionals are still probably the best source of help.

diannethegeek wrote: »

psulemon wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..

I do wish that you wouldn't group everyone together in your posts. As someone who's been through therapy and used it to work through food issues and advised people on these boards to seek therapy or help when it seems like it would help (as we're discussing above) it's not my go-to advice AND it's not insulting to suggest someone seek outside help.

Why do you assume I am talking about you?


According to some, in this thread, if you have an addiction to anything, you need therapy (regardless if it's a self proclaimed one or not).

psulemon wrote: »

diannethegeek wrote: »

psulemon wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..

I do wish that you wouldn't group everyone together in your posts. As someone who's been through therapy and used it to work through food issues and advised people on these boards to seek therapy or help when it seems like it would help (as we're discussing above) it's not my go-to advice AND it's not insulting to suggest someone seek outside help.

Why do you assume I am talking about you?


According to some, in this thread, if you have an addiction to anything, you need therapy (regardless if it's a self proclaimed one or not).

You used the words "we" and "our" which I took to mean either those of us in this thread or those of us on these boards, either of which includes me. You've been generalizing all over this thread, and as I say in every mean people thread: when you make posts like this without examples or qualifications it just ends up pointing fingers at everyone.

I don't doubt that some people do jump to therapy. I'm not asking you to deny they exist. I'm simply asking that you might want to step back a smidge and consider your language in this thread lest you paint everyone with the same broad brush. It makes it harder to debate your actual points.

Those I suppose maybe that's just a matter of semantics to you.

Therealobi1 wrote: »

psulemon wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..

How can we tell who is who?
When i read some threads it just feels like the person truly believes they are suffering from something other than over eating. I used that example of a thread yesterday where the Op believed she needed the doctors. So i know some people feel they are mocking those with true illnesses, but I honestly feel for some at that present time they truly believe they too have an illness.

And just as we were discussing with people who use the word "binge", if you try to clarify with someone about what they mean when they say they are addicted, or binged, or want "clean" recipes (to bring in another popular debate), then either the OP, or white knights, or others suggest that we are nitpicking and not being helpful.

Understanding what a person means when they use a word that is commonly misused, or has variable definitions is not debating semantics just for the sake of semantics. It is trying to achieve a common understanding so that we can then work from the same mindset. At least that is how I have always approached it.

psulemon wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."

I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.

I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.

I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..

You keep generalizing about what "we" do. I never say "you are using it as an excuse" (even though often people are -- and I disagree it's necessarily the minority) and I've never once suggested therapy. That said, the situations that I think genuinely are like addictions -- EDs and true eating addiction such as that the morbidly obese may have -- almost certainly would benefit from therapy and probably need it.

I think most people who use the term "addiction" are using it either casually (I really love and want to overeat X foods, I feel out of control in my eating habits) or have been told by irresponsible diet gurus, websites, and the moronic media noise surrounding the issue (especially if one is not experienced in reading the media skeptically and critically) that they are abnormal and have "addictions" if they tend to overeat certain kinds of foods, and buy into it. Therefore, I normally (as stated about 500 times now) simply note that I don't think addiction is the right or a helpful term except in some rare cases (and re eating, not sugar), and go through what helped me and what I think is helpful to consider (when you overeat, what you overeat, what's going on when you overeat, if you get enough protein, sleep, a good overall diet, have certain attachments or association with eating or certain foods, etc.).

That said, I think that when people say I CANNOT control my eating, what they are really saying is "at this time I am not willing to make the sacrifices I think would be required." Often, the sacrifices required are really quite a bit less than they imagine they are, which is why I think pointing out that you can lose weight while continuing to enjoy foods you love and without being hungry can be really helpful to people with the kind of idea of dieting that is too prevalent in our culture.

A good question that I usually do not pursue but maybe should is "what is the importance to you of the addiction label?" or, similarly, "let's say you are addicted? What difference do you think that makes?"

My impression is that people frequently think it means that if they do the right thing they will automatically stop feeling compelled to overeat and eating a low cal healthful diet with no cravings for "bad food" will become trivially easy for them (I think this is the idea behind the "detox" and "juice fast" and "reboot" stuff too). The other underlying idea often is that of course other people can successfully lose weight by they are different and it is easier for them. (That's the idea I find rather annoying -- that others were just fat because they were gluttons, but I'm different, I'm an addict and could not help it. If a recovering drug or alcohol addict failed to take personal responsibility in this way, that would not be tolerated in my personal experience with recovery groups.)