Why Calories In and Calories Out... It really ISN'T that simple.....
Replies
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stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »
No joke! But it proves that if you eat in a deficit you will lose weight. Healthy food or not.robs_ready wrote: »http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
....but it really is
God I could not think of anything more ghastly
Absolutely, you've given me a great idea for a macdonalds diet, chicken nuggets anyone?
Someone beat you to it: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-lose-weight-eating-only-mcdonalds-2015-10
Damn it, KFC then!
Done.
http://www.davejunia.com/2012/08/how-i-lost-7kg-in-a-month-while-eating-kfc/
Getting fat off whole foods?
Every clean bulk diet evah.
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janejellyroll wrote: »nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
Seriously? I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP because it's what works.
And, weirdly enough, it's possible to understand that weight loss is a function of CICO, implement that strategy, and *also* meet one's nutritional needs.
No no no, you are mistaken! It's only possible to eat a diet of Oreos and Big Macs if you're following CICO! The OP of this thread and her defenders have transcended our simplistic ways of thinking and are the only ones who are enlightened about the one true way to lose weight and get healthy. Now, please get out of my way while I take my credit card to Hyman's store!
/s1 -
It feels like these threads are click bait at this point lol0
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
Seriously? I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP because it's what works.
And, weirdly enough, it's possible to understand that weight loss is a function of CICO, implement that strategy, and *also* meet one's nutritional needs.
No no no, you are mistaken! It's only possible to eat a diet of Oreos and Big Macs if you're following CICO! The OP of this thread and her defenders have transcended our simplistic ways of thinking and are the only ones who are enlightened about the one true way to lose weight and get healthy. Now, please get out of my way while I take my credit card to Hyman's store!
/s
But he doesn't sell detoxes!0 -
Since a "calorie" is the heat produced by burning a dry food sample, specifically 1 calorie raises 1 cubic centimeter of water 1 degree C, I'm going to disregard anyone who advises "eat this not that" because they are selling "this" on the idea that their calories are better than the other guys calories. If the seller of "this" wants to actually persuade me that "this" is more worthy of my purchase than "that", said seller will have to appeal to my desire for nutrition and flavor.0
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"But sorry, Mr. Newton; your law of thermodynamics doesn’t apply in living, breathing, digesting systems. When you eat food, the “isolated system” part of the equation goes out the window. The food interacts with your biology, a complex adaptive system that instantly transforms every bite."
From the trashy article.
Really? Those are some big words going up one of the fundamental laws of physics. Outside of quantum mechanics, care to explain were the other energy and mass is going, coming from?
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Most people know 250 calories of nuts (or any other wholesome food) is better than 250 calorie donut. But sometimes I want to eat that donut and CICO is a nice tool that allows me to do that while staying within my caloric range.
@marvinq42 If I've already met my macro/micronutrient goals for the day, and I have the calories to spare, what would be the extra benefit of the nuts over the donut?
Your body doesn't give you extra credit.0 -
Tedebearduff wrote: »mrs_justice wrote: »Dr. Mark Hyman... maker of the movie Fed Up (you need to see it if you haven't) addresses the real reason that NOT ALL CALORIES ARE THE SAME....
Why I will choose....
100 calories of almonds vs. a processed 100 calorie granola bar.......
100 calories of berries vs. 100 calories of sugar added yogurt.......
drhyman.com/blog/2014/04/10/calories-dont-matter/
Without reading this, I've been saying this for years because your body has hormonal responses to food and there are no studies on this. Anytime I say anything I always get yelled at by the IIFYM crowd here, I hardly ever post anymore... because you know, I know nothing and IIFYM = life. Hopefully there is some decent info here!
Yes, if I believed the earth was flat I'd probably stop posting that in physics and astronomy forums. Especially if they asked me to back that up with evidence, pointed to the overwhelming evidence the earth is NOT flat, and I accused them of assault simply because they disagreed with my opinion.Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
Seriously? I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP because it's what works.
And, weirdly enough, it's possible to understand that weight loss is a function of CICO, implement that strategy, and *also* meet one's nutritional needs.
No no no, you are mistaken! It's only possible to eat a diet of Oreos and Big Macs if you're following CICO! The OP of this thread and her defenders have transcended our simplistic ways of thinking and are the only ones who are enlightened about the one true way to lose weight and get healthy. Now, please get out of my way while I take my credit card to Hyman's store!
/s
How did you know what I was eating every day?0 -
nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
You mean they don't want to see it from...reality's perspective? Is that what you're saying there?
I believe this was meant as a joke @RivenV Rather funny one at that. It's like German government didn't acknowledge the result of the world wars from the same perspective as everyone else. We alllll know what's up tho haha0 -
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
....but it really is
This was literally my turning point. I've tried every thing on the planet to lose weight - for about a week at a time, until the rules, the hunger, or the rebellion got too much. But this dude a) lost weight on Twinkies and a multivitamin, and b) had better health indicators because the weight came off, not because he was eating antioxidants or superfoods or whatever.
So now, I'm staying under my calories almost all the time. I'm trying to reach my protein and not go crazy with sodium because those two factors contribute to my "feeling good" more than any others. I'm moving more to get more calories. That's it. And, at least for the past five weeks or so, it's been working. It's not complicated, I have nothing to rebel against, and I don't have to become a short-order cook to fix my diet food and everyone else's regular food. I just eat less than I used to of what they're eating.0 -
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
....but it really is
This was literally my turning point. I've tried every thing on the planet to lose weight - for about a week at a time, until the rules, the hunger, or the rebellion got too much. But this dude a) lost weight on Twinkies and a multivitamin, and b) had better health indicators because the weight came off, not because he was eating antioxidants or superfoods or whatever.
So now, I'm staying under my calories almost all the time. I'm trying to reach my protein and not go crazy with sodium because those two factors contribute to my "feeling good" more than any others. I'm moving more to get more calories. That's it. And, at least for the past five weeks or so, it's been working. It's not complicated, I have nothing to rebel against, and I don't have to become a short-order cook to fix my diet food and everyone else's regular food. I just eat less than I used to of what they're eating.
YAYYYY!! That's awesome!!0 -
So many people out there create a problem so they have something to sell so it can be solved. Pseudoscience isn't science and many of these perps who do this crap should be called out.
CICO works if implemented. For some that may have health/hormonal issues, it may go slower, but still CICO is needed if any weight loss/gain/maintenance is desired.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »
No joke! But it proves that if you eat in a deficit you will lose weight. Healthy food or not.robs_ready wrote: »http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
....but it really is
God I could not think of anything more ghastly
Absolutely, you've given me a great idea for a macdonalds diet, chicken nuggets anyone?
Someone beat you to it: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-lose-weight-eating-only-mcdonalds-2015-10
Damn it, KFC then!
Done.
http://www.davejunia.com/2012/08/how-i-lost-7kg-in-a-month-while-eating-kfc/
Getting fat off whole foods?
I did that hahaha, can't say it was for an article though! When I was 14 (and a 5ft size 14) I used to glug down green smoothies WITH my balanced meals, eating tonnes of nuts and raisins all the time in the hopes of being as mini as my friends... Back in the day before I knew more than what was a healthy food or not!0 -
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
....but it really is
This was literally my turning point. I've tried every thing on the planet to lose weight - for about a week at a time, until the rules, the hunger, or the rebellion got too much. But this dude a) lost weight on Twinkies and a multivitamin, and b) had better health indicators because the weight came off, not because he was eating antioxidants or superfoods or whatever.
So now, I'm staying under my calories almost all the time. I'm trying to reach my protein and not go crazy with sodium because those two factors contribute to my "feeling good" more than any others. I'm moving more to get more calories. That's it. And, at least for the past five weeks or so, it's been working. It's not complicated, I have nothing to rebel against, and I don't have to become a short-order cook to fix my diet food and everyone else's regular food. I just eat less than I used to of what they're eating.
It's such an awesome realization isn't it? I can have meatloaf and mashed potatoes with my family, and then a bowl of ice cream later if I want to. I just eat less of that stuff than I would have before and log it all in MFP.0 -
nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
I'm confused. How does saying that calories are what matter for weight loss mean that one is against eating higher-quality foods (by which I assume you mean more nutrient dense foods). Most of us CICO advocates also say that eating a nutrient-rich diet is important for nutrition and, for most, satiety.
What those who try to argue against CICO fail to realize is that when one says "a calorie is a calorie," that doesn't mean that a food is a food. Obviously there are differences between individual foods and a diet can be more healthful than another diet. So stop with the strawmen, please!
On the other hand, anyone who argues that you can be accurately measuring and actually eating way below your actual TDEE and not lose weight is misunderstanding, and nothing submitted by hucksters like Oz and Hyman and their ilk (who want to convince you it's more complicated than control calories and eat a healthful diet for nutrition purposes) is actually contrary to this idea. So asserting that "calories don't matter" is a lie, one that Hyman knows is a lie, so I'm sorry for those who fall for his fraud.0 -
I_Will_End_You wrote: »He sells detox kits. That should be an immediate red flag that the guy is a quack.
GameMommyL2015 wrote: »A calorie is a unit of energy, like a kilowatt. Calories are for weight loss, types of food are for health and nutrition. Your body cannot tell the difference between the sugar in berries versus the added sugar in yogurt. At all.
Mark Hyman is a regular guest and is always hocking some book on the Oz show. Reason enough to hesitate listening to him. Just because someone has the title Dr. in front of their name does not make them an expert at everything.
SetEvgeniZyntx wrote: »The same Dr Hyman that supported the withdrawn paper on the link between vaccine and autism?
Discredited.
Match0 -
It really is as simple as calories in vs calories out.
How you choose to spend those calories is a personal choice.
If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.
If you eat less calories than you burn, you will lose.
Calories are calories. Whether or not you want better nutrition is your personal decision.0 -
Of_Monsters_and_Meat wrote: »"But sorry, Mr. Newton; your law of thermodynamics doesn’t apply in living, breathing, digesting systems. When you eat food, the “isolated system” part of the equation goes out the window. The food interacts with your biology, a complex adaptive system that instantly transforms every bite."
From the trashy article.
Really? Those are some big words going up one of the fundamental laws of physics. Outside of quantum mechanics, care to explain were the other energy and mass is going, coming from?
Wait ... It does actually say this! The author writes:Newton’s first law of thermodynamics states that the energy of an isolated system is constant.
Aside from everything else that's wrong with this article - THIS ISN'T NEWTON'S LAW! Newton proposed 3 laws of motion, not laws of thermodynamics. The first law of thermodynamics - conservation of energy - is not attributable to Isaac Newton.
LOL.0 -
Please. The majority of people who've had successful weight loss don't disagree on the quality of food for it's nutrient density. Weight loss comes down to CICO regardless of approach. What someone does to fulfill that is a matter of choice. You will NEVER find a weight loss program or diet that doesn't use a form of CICO for weight loss.nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Of_Monsters_and_Meat wrote: »"But sorry, Mr. Newton; your law of thermodynamics doesn’t apply in living, breathing, digesting systems. When you eat food, the “isolated system” part of the equation goes out the window. The food interacts with your biology, a complex adaptive system that instantly transforms every bite."
From the trashy article.
Really? Those are some big words going up one of the fundamental laws of physics. Outside of quantum mechanics, care to explain were the other energy and mass is going, coming from?
It's not like there are formulations of that law that apply to open systems or anything.
And CI - CO - delta(bodyenergy) totally doesn't have to be 0 for every given time period, nope. Energy totally can disappear somewhere. Just ask the hymen.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Calories In and Calories Out is by far the most important element to weight loss and weight management in general...nutrition is another matter entirely....
Oh...and as an aside...
Yes....this x1000.
And since the train has already left the station, I just want to reiderate.
People that say CICO is what matters for weight loss mean just that...., not nutrition but purely weight loss.
In the end how many calories you've had will dictate your weight loss, but not your level of nutrition. Your nutrition is dictated by what you eat.0 -
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ok... I have the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy, but I just read the word hyman like a hundred times...and I giggled each time (yes, I know it's not spelled the same).0
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nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
Nutrition is incredibly important to hit goals and for overall health
If you think that the overarching truth of calories in vs calories out under which all successful losing weight ./ weight gain / weight maintenance / fitness goals fall doesn't allow for good nutrition you simply don't know what you're talking about0 -
Good thing I saved that one post I made a long time ago.
Let's take a person, healthy, overweight, pregnant, with medical conditions doesn't matter.
We stop time at some point during their day, when doesn't matter. Let's call that point in time tX.
At point tX, there is a certain amount of energy available in the body for usage by your body in the form of food in your digestive tract, stored glycogen, fat and lean mass, as well as what is in your blood stream, in total that's X kiloCalories.
Now we let time run again, how long doesn't matter. Then we stop it again and we call that point in time tY.
At this point, again, a certain amount of energy is available in your body in the form of food, glycogen, LBM, fat and what's in your blood stream, that is Y kiloCalories.
Between points tX and tY, an amount of kiloCalories went into your body from eating, we'll call that CI and left your body either from burning for energy, (possibly loss as heat), or excretion, we'll call to CO.
Conservation of energy now states, as a law that always applies no matter what, that X = Y + CO - CI and conversely Y = X + CI - CO. Always. There can never be a Z somewhere in there that is not accounted for by what went in or out of your body.
Energy that you never put in can not be stored, it is impossible to store more energy than the difference of what you put in and what goes out.0 -
enterdanger wrote: »ok... I have the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy, but I just read the word hyman like a hundred times...and I giggled each time (yes, I know it's not spelled the same).
That's DOCTOR Hyman to you...0 -
mrs_justice wrote: »Dr. Mark Hyman... maker of the movie Fed Up (you need to see it if you haven't) addresses the real reason that NOT ALL CALORIES ARE THE SAME....
Why I will choose....
100 calories of almonds vs. a processed 100 calorie granola bar.......
100 calories of berries vs. 100 calories of sugar added yogurt.......
drhyman.com/blog/2014/04/10/calories-dont-matter/
Yes they are the same calories to your body. They have different nutrition content but the calories are the same. Eat sugar or don't eat sugar. Eat only food you grow yourself or eat fast food meals. Realize that it is a personal eating preference and a calorie is alwaysgoing to be a calorie. Pretty simple.
You can feel better, more full, healthier eating a certain amount of nutrients. No one is saying that you can't. That is pretty simple too.
I've lost weight eating the same foods I gained weight eating just different portion sizes. I recognize that I can get different nutrients from different foods or can eat more of some foods than others. Not complicated at all.0 -
Doctah hymen...still funny.0
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He's been called out on his b.s. so...
Busted Hyman!0 -
Please. The majority of people who've had successful weight loss don't disagree on the quality of food for it's nutrient density. Weight loss comes down to CICO regardless of approach. What someone does to fulfill that is a matter of choice. You will NEVER find a weight loss program or diet that doesn't use a form of CICO for weight loss.nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
^^True words.
You can package it different and call it different but in the end, successful weight loss is eating less calories than you burn.
Fact.
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