Cardio isn't for "fat burning".
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Not pointless at all. Just not necessary...DancingDarl wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »What about aerobic cardio like this Jane Fonda DVDs? I honestly thought if you exercize you burn calories.. And that leads to losing fat.. Guess times have changed lol!
Cardio burns calories, yes, but if you are eating in a caloric surplus you can do as many Jane Fonda workouts as you like and you still won't lose fat.
I think if we have 2 different people both wanting to lose weight. One who is doing cardio, the other something else. That both of them will be losing fat when in deficit regardless of type of exercise used to create a deficit. So no cardio is not pointless to fat loss at all.
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Who says that?DancingDarl wrote: »We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
Would love to hear your expert advice on that..0 -
Protranser wrote: »Isn't there some knowledge floating around these forums that describes a maximum amount of fat that the oxidized per day?
If there is a maximum amount of fat that can be oxidized per day, and, one exceeds the oxidation maximum through calorie deficit, what happens when you exceed the maximum oxidation limit? Where does the energy come from if not fat?
That energy has to come from lean mass...muscle and connective tissues. Not a good thing. That's why leaner people need to work with a smaller deficit to avoid losing lean mass.0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
Increase in metabolism has to do with increasing maintenance calories as a pound of muscle takes a bit more energy to maintain that a pound of muscle. But gaining muscle while eating in a deficit is difficult and not the norm, and the increase in metabolic rate is pretty darn small...6 to 10 calories a pound to maintain a pound of muscle vs. 2 to 4 calories to maintain a pound of fat. So if you traded 10 pounds of fat with 10 pounds of muscle your daily maintenance would only increase about 80 calories at best.0 -
When it comes to weight loss, the only thing that matters is your caloric deficit.
Splitting hairs over details only serves to distract from that principle. It is irrelevant to an individual's weight loss if they perceive that they are eating at a 500 calorie deficit and doing cardio so that they can eat an additional 250 calories, if they perceive that they are achieving their 500 calorie deficit by eating at a 250 calorie deficit and adding cardio to burn an additional 250 calories, or if they are not doing any cardio at all and straight up eating at a 500 calorie deficit. All three scenarios result in a 500 calorie deficit, and if that is consistently maintained, it will result in weight loss (outside of some unusual medical condition or issue).
Of course, it is silly to think that one can eat at a calorie surplus, do a cardio workout, and lose weight. It is just as silly as rewarding oneself for working out by stopping at Starbucks and ordering a 500 calorie drink that results in one consuming more calories than were burned in the workout, and then wondering why one isn't losing weight when they are working out consistently. But, as we all know, common sense isn't that common.
There are important fitness benefits to adding in cardio, so it should definitely be strongly recommended. But being unable to do cardio due to an individual's health in no way makes losing weight impossible, as losing weight results from a caloric deficit.
Maintaining a caloric deficit is the key to losing weight. Cardio can contribute to that deficit, but it is not necessary. In my experience, it can be particularly helpful when an individual is nearing the end of his/her weight loss journey, and a calorie deficit starts to become more challenging to maintain through diet alone. Others may have a different experience.0 -
Love this post!When it comes to weight loss, the only thing that matters is your caloric deficit.
Splitting hairs over details only serves to distract from that principle. It is irrelevant to an individual's weight loss if they perceive that they are eating at a 500 calorie deficit and doing cardio so that they can eat an additional 250 calories, if they perceive that they are achieving their 500 calorie deficit by eating at a 250 calorie deficit and adding cardio to burn an additional 250 calories, or if they are not doing any cardio at all and straight up eating at a 500 calorie deficit. All three scenarios result in a 500 calorie deficit, and if that is consistently maintained, it will result in weight loss (outside of some unusual medical condition or issue).
Of course, it is silly to think that one can eat at a calorie surplus, do a cardio workout, and lose weight. It is just as silly as rewarding oneself for working out by stopping at Starbucks and ordering a 500 calorie drink that results in one consuming more calories than were burned in the workout, and then wondering why one isn't losing weight when they are working out consistently. But, as we all know, common sense isn't that common.
There are important fitness benefits to adding in cardio, so it should definitely be strongly recommended. But being unable to do cardio due to an individual's health in no way makes losing weight impossible, as losing weight results from a caloric deficit.
Maintaining a caloric deficit is the key to losing weight. Cardio can contribute to that deficit, but it is not necessary. In my experience, it can be particularly helpful when an individual is nearing the end of his/her weight loss journey, and a calorie deficit starts to become more challenging to maintain through diet alone. Others may have a different experience.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »This isn't strictly true by doing cardio at the right intensity you can essentially train your body to utilise it's fat stores and oxygen for fuel rather than burn off it's limited sugar stores. Also by improving your aerobic ability you can go faster/harder for longer using less energy
So if I do cardio to the right intensity and still consume energy at a maintenance level, I'm going to burn fat? Yes...certain activities will use fat for fuel vs glycogen...but that's completely irrelevant to actually losing fat and losing weight because if you consume a maintenance level of energy you are going to maintain your fat stores.
All of that is just noise and it was addressed earlier...the body is in constant flux between fat oxidation and storage...just because you do some activity at an intensity that utilizes more fat for fuel doesn't actually mean your net oxidation is going to exceed storage...it still is dependent on energy consumption.
And you are kinda missing the point. Yes you need to consume less calories than you expend otherwise the body will convert the calories consumed into fat stores. The thread title is cardio isn't for fat burning....this is not true cardio does 'burn fat' and you can make the body more efficient at doing so by training at the right levels
And an interesting aside....ever wonder where the fat actually goes?
Most of it you breathe out as CO2 it doesn't miraculously turn into muscle as some people think
And I think you're kinda missing the point and context of the thread...0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. ]b\There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??]/b]
Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
My guess is that you read that in a magazine right?0 -
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DancingDarl wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »What about aerobic cardio like this Jane Fonda DVDs? I honestly thought if you exercize you burn calories.. And that leads to losing fat.. Guess times have changed lol!
Cardio burns calories, yes, but if you are eating in a caloric surplus you can do as many Jane Fonda workouts as you like and you still won't lose fat.
I think if we have 2 different people both wanting to lose weight. One who is doing cardio, the other something else. That both of them will be losing fat when in deficit regardless of type of exercise used to create a deficit. So no cardio is not pointless to fat loss at all.
She said surplus.
Surplus.
Surplus.0 -
People these days eat straight up crap. Chips, soda, hot dogs, McDonald's, and everything else. Never a veggie or a fruit oh how about some old fashioned water and a good run around the block. Take account for the things you consume or they will consume you with obesity and disease.
Incorrect. While some of these foods are higher in saturated fats there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Mostly they're just calorie dense. If you don't have high cholesterol or health issues that prevent you from having these then eating them is fine. Just don't comprise your entire diet of them.
Cardio is to make you healthier. It can improve so much of your life. It makes it easier for me to do high altitude hiking, lowers my blood pressure, cholesterol , and my HDL was 100 on my last checkup. It does burn fat but that's as explained in the opening post when you do longer lower intensity zoned endurance.
Also worth noting. It does not make you skinny. Professional marathon runners are skinny on purpose because you lose about 2 seconds per mile for each extra pound you carry. Light weight = greater speed. Your net calories determine your size. That is all.
so you can out run a bad diet?
Yes. If you're counting calories.0 -
I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog0
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alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.0 -
alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
Then you were consuming less energy than you were expending....
Holy crap, how hard is this?0 -
alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
As 11-13% is essential body fat for women I think you are mistaken0 -
alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
That's like short term "competition" body fat percentage only. No wonder you won the best body contest.
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@SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved
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This is why I've never really done cardio, but more weight training than anything. Cardio is great for toning and getting good heart health, but weight training builds more muscle, which uses more calories to maintain than fat does, and therefore uses more energy. A good pairing of the two should allow you to build muscle and tone it as well so everything works well together.0
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singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved
12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners0 -
In the year I've been at this, my view of exercise has really shifted. I use to view calories & exercise as equal partners and would try to work out daily, and began to pursue longer, more demanding exercise with a view to burning more calories (or maybe more specifically, with a view to buying more calories). With the scale moving sluggishly (but feeling very fit), I decided to give greater focus to my calorie counting and not concern myself as much with calorie burns. It's really gotten the scale moving again. I still work out more days than not, but for the fitness and mood boost, not to speed weight loss. For that, I'm just scrupulous about my calories.
QFT. Whenever my losses hit a slump, I stop caring about exercise altogether for a couple days and JUST LOG FLAWLESSLY. Gets me back on track after a week and the scale steadily moving down. It's nothing to do with the exercise intensity decrease, and more to do with being a lot more accurate because those pesky over-estimated burns and under estimated intake. CiCo is king.0 -
There is cardio I hate like spin class and the treadmill, and cardio I love like running and Zumba. Including these exercises has done worlds for my health, stamina and fitness. The calories I burn from a session add up to about two cookies. Not significant weight wise.
But still worthwhile.
It is a disservice to describe these activities as "fat burning". I've even seen it labelled this way on the machines (fat burning zone). How many times does MFP field a misery laden post from a newbie poster who has restricted calories for ten days and significantly increased her cardio over that same time....and gained weight? Probably water weight from muscle repair.
Here this poor person was giving her all and hating every minute of it. She was certainly hoping to see a significant result from all that "fat burning"!
Isn't it better to advise her to look to the meal sizes to lose weight and when she is doing cardio, be sure she is doing something she enjoys? Because this weight loss enterprise is going to take a while.0 -
@SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging 0
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Lol, take away "deficit" and guess what? Cardio isn't a fat burning exercise. Using Post Hoc fallacy to correlate it is, is faulty.Working2BLean wrote: »Living is a fat burning event in a calorie defecit
Cardio contributes to the calorie defecit.
Therefore
It is a fat burning exercise.
Making this very simple weight management equation unduly complex is a bit silly.
Eat at a calorie defecit and add some fun exercise you enjoy. The magic will happen. There is no rocket science.
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Weight lifting improves a muscles condition dependent on how you do it. Some do it for strength, some for maintenance and some for muscular endurance.DancingDarl wrote: »We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
As to increasing metabolic rate? EPOC is overly exaggerated by the fitness community and those who may have never studied physiology. One can raise their RMR, but it's not that significant and it doesn't have to come just from weight lifting. High intensity exercise will do it. And because weight lifting is more along those lines than cardio, many people think that it's a metabolic booster.
It's still going to come down to CICO.
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singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging
And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe0 -
Sorry, but if you think you went down to 12% body fat, you'd be BETTER than most female athletes in the world at body composition. And you don't get that from just jogging.alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
If you lost weight, it's because you created a calorie deficit..............the formula for weight loss.
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And kids back in school in the day were wondering "when are we ever going to use math equations in life?"cwolfman13 wrote: »alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
Then you were consuming less energy than you were expending....
Holy crap, how hard is this?
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Key word here: ELITESingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved
12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Key word here: ELITESingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved
12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?
Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?0
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