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Is the amount of easy access processed food harming dieters health?
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I have @lemurcat12 however, seen a lot of prepared foods from the middle aisles, touted as "low fat" where sugar was added to compensate. I noticed because as a diabetic, I was counting the sugar/carbs. One of my pet peeves is lower fat Kraft peanut butter. Way to ruin a perfectly good spread.
Yeah, agreed. I don't really eat that stuff, but I know about Snackwells and all that.
People making the claim more generally, especially about dairy, just is a pet peeve.0 -
I process my own food. I cook it, clean it, cut it chop it and salt and season it. For several years I've been living in places where most ofthe foodfor sale is fresh; fish, meat, veg and fruit. There are always bakeries in europe ( mainland) but some places lag behind english speaking countries in the canned, frozen and boxed pre cooked, pre prepared foods.
I can buy some canned things and we eat tuna, bass and sardines canned. I wonder why we do that though, as fish markets have fresh sardines for so cheap I may as well process them myself by frying them in olive oil or butter with salt and pepper.
Jeepers creepers, where'd you get those peepers, yonks! So many non dictionary words do make this thread a lot of fun.
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cushman5279 wrote: »Just the thought of any meat in a can is gross to me
Same here
Never tried it, and never will!
I'm sure there are tons of people who live on nothing but processed foods, I would hate to see their long term health markers... I just feel better mentally and physically if most of my food is fresh produce.1 -
Yogurt was just an example of what I was trying to say, which is the same as what jgnatca said. I said what I did about the yogurt because it was based on my own experience, not some rumor or heard or something. I stood in the yogurt isle for ages comparing sugar contents on all the yogurts. Many, not all, of the ones I looked at had more sugar in the low and non fat vs full fat of the same flavor.0
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Christine_72 wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Just the thought of any meat in a can is gross to me
Same here Never tried it, and never will!
I'm sure there are tons of people who live on nothing but processed foods, I would hate to see their long term health markers... I just feel better mentally and physically if most of my food is fresh produce.
But why? We always see these comments about how much better it is to eat clean and how one can't be healthy if they eat processed, or they don't care about nutrition if they eat processed foods... As discussed in these threads it is impossible to eat NO processed foods since everything has some level of processing. When people bring up eating things like frozen vegetables, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, skinless chicken breasts and steel cut oats every one says, "that's not what I meant".
But let's change the adjective to ultra processed - things like frozen meals and Hamburger Helper.
Even the canned chicken that the OP asked about. I do enjoy cooking and try to use fresh produce when I can but in a busy working mom so I also rely a lot on convenience foods so let me propose a hypothetical ultra processed day with things that are in my house right now.
Breakfast:
Coffee plus:
Lunch:
Needs more protein:
Snack:
Dinner:
To which I would add 93/7 ground beef (processed) and some sort of frozen vegetable, possibly salad from a bag and:
I will have calories to spare so I will also probably have:
It's from the Southern Hemisphere so I don't know if that makes it better?
So those are all processed foods that are staples in my house. How are they negatively impacting my health markers?
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On their own, I don't think any of those foods should necessarily be avoided. However, for one thing, most of those foods are particularly high in sodium, which is a nutrient a lot of people consume too much of. Put all of those together, and you're either at or very close to the recommended upper limit (and that's assuming one eats no more than one serving of each of those). So considering the sodium:potassium ratio is not favorable with most of those foods, over the long term blood pressure could certainly be negatively impacted.WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Just the thought of any meat in a can is gross to me
Same here Never tried it, and never will!
I'm sure there are tons of people who live on nothing but processed foods, I would hate to see their long term health markers... I just feel better mentally and physically if most of my food is fresh produce.
But why? We always see these comments about how much better it is to eat clean and how one can't be healthy if they eat processed, or they don't care about nutrition if they eat processed foods... As discussed in these threads it is impossible to eat NO processed foods since everything has some level of processing. When people bring up eating things like frozen vegetables, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, skinless chicken breasts and steel cut oats every one says, "that's not what I meant".
But let's change the adjective to ultra processed - things like frozen meals and Hamburger Helper.
Even the canned chicken that the OP asked about. I do enjoy cooking and try to use fresh produce when I can but in a busy working mom so I also rely a lot on convenience foods so let me propose a hypothetical ultra processed day with things that are in my house right now.
So those are all processed foods that are staples in my house. How are they negatively impacting my health markers?
Now, I don't think eating all of that on occasion is all that bad, but Christine's point is that there are a lot of people who eat like that on a daily basis.
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I would be very interested to hear (read) what people think about this.
I've noticed on some of the "what people are eating" type threads, there's a lot of easily accessible heavily processed foods being eaten. Because it says low fat on the tin does this make it good for us? Lots of salt seems to be added to processed food as well as all sorts of other ingredients that I don't even know what they are.
I'm not knocking CICO at all, its working for me, and I am not a food saint. I include all sorts of foods in my diet including fatty food, chips/crisps, sweets and chocolate. I have to do this in moderation otherwise I would be starving all the time because of the amount of calories these things have in them. I would also rather have a bowl of home made soup than a can of chicken. I had literally never heard of canned chicken before today (its not used widely in the UK). I'm astounded. I haven't eaten canned tuna for years because of the welfare aspects of it. I tend to be quite conscientious in my food choice when it comes to animal welfare but I'm aware that I am lucky enough to be on my own and able to afford to be that way.
I know the main aim of dieting for most of us is to lose weight but what could processed food be doing to our organs? I'm honestly interested in whether being thin but eating these sorts of foods has a detrimental effect on health?
I think a lot of packaged food just plain doesn't taste as good as homemade but I don't feel it is damaging unless the person has a medical condition already where they should be limiting sodium, sugar, nitrates or are very sensitive to an ingredient. I think people get unhealthy if they lack nutrients.
I've tried canned chicken. I thought it tasted weird. I ate Spam as a child and hated it.
I grew up eating canned soup, canned vegetables, canned tuna, frozen pizza, ramen, cheese product, margarine, etc and have no organ problems.
I eat more home prepared from scratch foods now but I'm not afraid of the occasional frozen burrito.1 -
When people say something is working for them, I like to see pics.
I also wonder if they have measures of health like lab tests, for example, that have improved, and if they feel more comfortable and happy.
So many of those who continually pluck the CICO note don't have pics of themselves, and/or current pics, either.
I also wonder, what do they mean "working"?? That's a general term.
Do they mean the scale number went down? That's the guaranteed end result of CICO.
But HOW and WHAT you eat is going to produce different results for different people. If a certain picture comes into your mind of what "works" or what "results" you are after, then CICO is ONLY THE STARTING POINT.
The term "processed" and "clean" are also general terms. Whey protein is processed, but I eat it regularly. However, many or most processed foods I am not comfortable including in my diet, including many of the vegetable oils, refined grains, and packaged processed foods. I think they can be harmful to the metabolism.1 -
Not sure canned meat is a good example, the welfare issues around tuna don't depend if it's in a can or not.
My problem with tinned meats would be the origin and quality of the meat, if you get a piece of chicken it's clearly off one bird whereas there could be all manner of ground up "interesting bits" from multiple birds in a canned product.
Salt isn't that big a deal for healthy people with working kidneys and normal blood pressure. You would have to consider their whole diet not individual foods.
I did manage to find one example of canned chicken on the Tesco website, which is probably representative of my view of the concept :
Funny thing, about your view of the concept - if an emergency ever happens, cat food is actually fairly safe to eat. Most dog food? Bad idea. Cats, however, are a little more vulnerable to health issues, and the food produced for them (US standards at least) has to be fairly close to human standards. Just a little zombie apocalypse survival tip if you find all your fellow survivors have raided the grocery stores but the pet food stores are unguarded, and you need to pick out which can to grab before the zombie grabs you.
Good to know!0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »On their own, I don't think any of those foods should necessarily be avoided. However, for one thing, most of those foods are particularly high in sodium, which is a nutrient a lot of people consume too much of. Put all of those together, and you're either at or very close to the recommended upper limit (and that's assuming one eats no more than one serving of each of those). So considering the sodium:potassium ratio is not favorable with most of those foods, over the long term blood pressure could certainly be negatively impacted.
Only in people who are already hypertensive. Normotensive individuals don't show a blood pressure response to either decreasing sodium or increasing potassium. The reason for guidelines being what they are is that the philosophy is that it will benefit some people (those with hypertension) and it won't hurt anyone.
I don't prefer to follow general advice, but rather pay attention to things that actually impact my individual health. My blood pressure is excellent, so I don't have any reason to care about sodium or potassium.0 -
This one time, in the grocery store, the samples guy had canned chicken mixed with sabra hummus. The mere act of me sampling this unholy amalgamation of processed depravity and prepackaged diet bliss caused MFP to glitch on my phone. The dip itself was pretty good.0
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WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Just the thought of any meat in a can is gross to me
Same here Never tried it, and never will!
I'm sure there are tons of people who live on nothing but processed foods, I would hate to see their long term health markers... I just feel better mentally and physically if most of my food is fresh produce.
But why? We always see these comments about how much better it is to eat clean and how one can't be healthy if they eat processed, or they don't care about nutrition if they eat processed foods... As discussed in these threads it is impossible to eat NO processed foods since everything has some level of processing. When people bring up eating things like frozen vegetables, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, skinless chicken breasts and steel cut oats every one says, "that's not what I meant".
But let's change the adjective to ultra processed - things like frozen meals and Hamburger Helper.
Even the canned chicken that the OP asked about. I do enjoy cooking and try to use fresh produce when I can but in a busy working mom so I also rely a lot on convenience foods so let me propose a hypothetical ultra processed day with things that are in my house right now.
Breakfast:
Coffee plus:
Lunch:
Needs more protein:
Snack:
Dinner:
To which I would add 93/7 ground beef (processed) and some sort of frozen vegetable, possibly salad from a bag and:
I will have calories to spare so I will also probably have:
It's from the Southern Hemisphere so I don't know if that makes it better?
So those are all processed foods that are staples in my house. How are they negatively impacting my health markers?
I'm definitely not a clean eater. I have yogurt, whey protein and stuff like that.
What comes to my mind when I say living on processed foods goes something like this:
Breakfast- Poptarts, Froot Loops or a pile of deep fried sludge.
Lunch- Some form of take away or frozen meal
Dinner- Take away, canned meat/foods or frozen dinners.
7 days a week, 365 days a year. Now there is nothing inherintly bad with the above foods in moderation. But for those to be ones sole items of nutrition can not possibly be healthy. I only made a teeny tiny list, but I hope you get what I mean?
And yes, I've jnown people who eat like this... Obese and just generally unhealthy is what they have in common..
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Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Just the thought of any meat in a can is gross to me
Same here Never tried it, and never will!
I'm sure there are tons of people who live on nothing but processed foods, I would hate to see their long term health markers... I just feel better mentally and physically if most of my food is fresh produce.
But why? We always see these comments about how much better it is to eat clean and how one can't be healthy if they eat processed, or they don't care about nutrition if they eat processed foods... As discussed in these threads it is impossible to eat NO processed foods since everything has some level of processing. When people bring up eating things like frozen vegetables, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, skinless chicken breasts and steel cut oats every one says, "that's not what I meant".
But let's change the adjective to ultra processed - things like frozen meals and Hamburger Helper.
Even the canned chicken that the OP asked about. I do enjoy cooking and try to use fresh produce when I can but in a busy working mom so I also rely a lot on convenience foods so let me propose a hypothetical ultra processed day with things that are in my house right now.
Breakfast:
Coffee plus:
Lunch:
Needs more protein:
Snack:
Dinner:
To which I would add 93/7 ground beef (processed) and some sort of frozen vegetable, possibly salad from a bag and:
I will have calories to spare so I will also probably have:
It's from the Southern Hemisphere so I don't know if that makes it better?
So those are all processed foods that are staples in my house. How are they negatively impacting my health markers?
I'm definitely not a clean eater. I have yogurt, whey protein and stuff like that.
What comes to my mind when I say living on processed foods goes something like this:
Breakfast- Poptarts, Froot Loops or a pile of deep fried sludge.
Lunch- Some form of take away or frozen meal
Dinner- Take away, canned meat/foods or frozen dinners.
7 days a week, 365 days a year. Now there is nothing inherintly bad with the above foods in moderation. But for those to be ones sole items of nutrition can not possibly be healthy. I only made a teeny tiny list, but I hope you get what I mean?
And yes, I've jnown people who eat like this... Obese and just generally unhealthy is what they have in common..
So If It Fit YOLO Macros diet?0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »When people say something is working for them, I like to see pics.
I also wonder if they have measures of health like lab tests, for example, that have improved, and if they feel more comfortable and happy.
So many of those who continually pluck the CICO note don't have pics of themselves, and/or current pics, either.
I also wonder, what do they mean "working"?? That's a general term.
Do they mean the scale number went down? That's the guaranteed end result of CICO.
But HOW and WHAT you eat is going to produce different results for different people. If a certain picture comes into your mind of what "works" or what "results" you are after, then CICO is ONLY THE STARTING POINT.
The term "processed" and "clean" are also general terms. Whey protein is processed, but I eat it regularly. However, many or most processed foods I am not comfortable including in my diet, including many of the vegetable oils, refined grains, and packaged processed foods. I think they can be harmful to the metabolism.
#YOLOSWAG
I'm on the right. I can't vouch for Batman's diet.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Just the thought of any meat in a can is gross to me
Same here Never tried it, and never will!
I'm sure there are tons of people who live on nothing but processed foods, I would hate to see their long term health markers... I just feel better mentally and physically if most of my food is fresh produce.
But why? We always see these comments about how much better it is to eat clean and how one can't be healthy if they eat processed, or they don't care about nutrition if they eat processed foods... As discussed in these threads it is impossible to eat NO processed foods since everything has some level of processing. When people bring up eating things like frozen vegetables, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, skinless chicken breasts and steel cut oats every one says, "that's not what I meant".
But let's change the adjective to ultra processed - things like frozen meals and Hamburger Helper.
Even the canned chicken that the OP asked about. I do enjoy cooking and try to use fresh produce when I can but in a busy working mom so I also rely a lot on convenience foods so let me propose a hypothetical ultra processed day with things that are in my house right now.
Breakfast:
Coffee plus:
Lunch:
Needs more protein:
Snack:
Dinner:
To which I would add 93/7 ground beef (processed) and some sort of frozen vegetable, possibly salad from a bag and:
I will have calories to spare so I will also probably have:
It's from the Southern Hemisphere so I don't know if that makes it better?
So those are all processed foods that are staples in my house. How are they negatively impacting my health markers?
I'm definitely not a clean eater. I have yogurt, whey protein and stuff like that.
What comes to my mind when I say living on processed foods goes something like this:
Breakfast- Poptarts, Froot Loops or a pile of deep fried sludge.
Lunch- Some form of take away or frozen meal
Dinner- Take away, canned meat/foods or frozen dinners.
7 days a week, 365 days a year. Now there is nothing inherintly bad with the above foods in moderation. But for those to be ones sole items of nutrition can not possibly be healthy. I only made a teeny tiny list, but I hope you get what I mean?
And yes, I've jnown people who eat like this... Obese and just generally unhealthy is what they have in common..
This is how I think a lot of these discussions being people talking past each other. One of the points I've been trying to make when people condemn processed or ultra processed food in general is that they are quite varied foods, and I'd focus on the specific nutritional content vs. the label. As I went through above, I think processed foods typically add to the sugar content because of the types of foods people choose to buy, not because any processed food is necessarily going to have added sugar.
Similarly, even take aways or purchased foods vary. I used to get too much Indian take out. The nutritional content really wasn't that bad. The calories were too high.
Today I bought lunch (something I do too much and plan to cut back on -- largely because it's expensive). What I got was a vegetarian sandwich (described as: sliced cucumbers, vine tomatoes, avocado, red onions, watercress and organic baby arugula drizzled with housemade dijon vinaigrette on organic whole grain baguette). I don't think the fact I bought it instead of making it myself makes it less healthy.
I actually ate way more ultraprocessed things than normal today (since I do have a bit of a whole foods fetish) -- a Quest bar (poor planning and the only snack available when I wanted one), protein powder (since I'm still trying to figure out how I will get the protein I like with my breakfast if I'm not having eggs), and some Mexican crumbles soy thing I decided to try out, as well as some polenta I purchased in a tube vs. making myself for convenience. And the purchased lunch, of course. Despite that my diet was way under for sugar, definitely under for sat fat, included many vegetables, and fit my planned macros almost on the nose. So I am not so sure that the amount of processing is the key distinction, although I really do like focusing on whole foods. I think it's that Americans eat tons of snacky items and not nearly enough vegetables (or fruit).0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »When people say something is working for them, I like to see pics.
I also wonder if they have measures of health like lab tests, for example, that have improved, and if they feel more comfortable and happy.
So many of those who continually pluck the CICO note don't have pics of themselves, and/or current pics, either.
I also wonder, what do they mean "working"?? That's a general term.
Do they mean the scale number went down? That's the guaranteed end result of CICO.
But HOW and WHAT you eat is going to produce different results for different people. If a certain picture comes into your mind of what "works" or what "results" you are after, then CICO is ONLY THE STARTING POINT.
The term "processed" and "clean" are also general terms. Whey protein is processed, but I eat it regularly. However, many or most processed foods I am not comfortable including in my diet, including many of the vegetable oils, refined grains, and packaged processed foods. I think they can be harmful to the metabolism.
Really now? This is off topic and seems like some kind of dig or insult, but I find the opposite. I find many of the CICO advocates have current pictures and many are at goal and in maintenance. I find many low carb advocates have profile pictures that don't have their current pic or pics of them at all. Does that mean they are all fakers, I wouldn't say that, but it sure seems like you are making that assumption about those who advocate for CICO above all else.
This.^^^0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »When people say something is working for them, I like to see pics.
I also wonder if they have measures of health like lab tests, for example, that have improved, and if they feel more comfortable and happy.
So many of those who continually pluck the CICO note don't have pics of themselves, and/or current pics, either.
I also wonder, what do they mean "working"?? That's a general term.
Do they mean the scale number went down? That's the guaranteed end result of CICO.
But HOW and WHAT you eat is going to produce different results for different people. If a certain picture comes into your mind of what "works" or what "results" you are after, then CICO is ONLY THE STARTING POINT.
The term "processed" and "clean" are also general terms. Whey protein is processed, but I eat it regularly. However, many or most processed foods I am not comfortable including in my diet, including many of the vegetable oils, refined grains, and packaged processed foods. I think they can be harmful to the metabolism.
Really now? This is off topic and seems like some kind of dig or insult, but I find the opposite. I find many of the CICO advocates have current pictures and many are at goal and in maintenance.
Well, granted, my avi isn't actually me, but my cat -- this may be a shock, I know. ;-)
Like many who don't use a photo of ourselves as our avi, I do have photos on my profile, which is open. Granted, I'm wearing clothes. The one of me biking while fat is from 60 lbs ago.
Don't know why it would matter to the ideas presented, though -- if someone thinks my points are not well-thought-out I would hope they would have a reasoned response.0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »When people say something is working for them, I like to see pics.
I also wonder if they have measures of health like lab tests, for example, that have improved, and if they feel more comfortable and happy.
So many of those who continually pluck the CICO note don't have pics of themselves, and/or current pics, either.
I also wonder, what do they mean "working"?? That's a general term.
Do they mean the scale number went down? That's the guaranteed end result of CICO.
But HOW and WHAT you eat is going to produce different results for different people. If a certain picture comes into your mind of what "works" or what "results" you are after, then CICO is ONLY THE STARTING POINT.
The term "processed" and "clean" are also general terms. Whey protein is processed, but I eat it regularly. However, many or most processed foods I am not comfortable including in my diet, including many of the vegetable oils, refined grains, and packaged processed foods. I think they can be harmful to the metabolism.
Which CICO enthusiasts don't have pictures? I have pictures, and several of the friends I have who believe the same things that I do have pictures as well - I've seen them.
Please explain what you mean by 'only the starting point'. CICO is the main point. Food doesn't 'harm the metabolism', by the way.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Just the thought of any meat in a can is gross to me
Same here Never tried it, and never will!
I'm sure there are tons of people who live on nothing but processed foods, I would hate to see their long term health markers... I just feel better mentally and physically if most of my food is fresh produce.
But why? We always see these comments about how much better it is to eat clean and how one can't be healthy if they eat processed, or they don't care about nutrition if they eat processed foods... As discussed in these threads it is impossible to eat NO processed foods since everything has some level of processing. When people bring up eating things like frozen vegetables, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, skinless chicken breasts and steel cut oats every one says, "that's not what I meant".
But let's change the adjective to ultra processed - things like frozen meals and Hamburger Helper.
Even the canned chicken that the OP asked about. I do enjoy cooking and try to use fresh produce when I can but in a busy working mom so I also rely a lot on convenience foods so let me propose a hypothetical ultra processed day with things that are in my house right now.
Breakfast:
Coffee plus:
Lunch:
Needs more protein:
Snack:
Dinner:
To which I would add 93/7 ground beef (processed) and some sort of frozen vegetable, possibly salad from a bag and:
I will have calories to spare so I will also probably have:
It's from the Southern Hemisphere so I don't know if that makes it better?
So those are all processed foods that are staples in my house. How are they negatively impacting my health markers?
I'm definitely not a clean eater. I have yogurt, whey protein and stuff like that.
What comes to my mind when I say living on processed foods goes something like this:
Breakfast- Poptarts, Froot Loops or a pile of deep fried sludge.
Lunch- Some form of take away or frozen meal
Dinner- Take away, canned meat/foods or frozen dinners.
7 days a week, 365 days a year. Now there is nothing inherintly bad with the above foods in moderation. But for those to be ones sole items of nutrition can not possibly be healthy. I only made a teeny tiny list, but I hope you get what I mean?
And yes, I've jnown people who eat like this... Obese and just generally unhealthy is what they have in common..
This is how I think a lot of these discussions being people talking past each other. One of the points I've been trying to make when people condemn processed or ultra processed food in general is that they are quite varied foods, and I'd focus on the specific nutritional content vs. the label. As I went through above, I think processed foods typically add to the sugar content because of the types of foods people choose to buy, not because any processed food is necessarily going to have added sugar.
Similarly, even take aways or purchased foods vary. I used to get too much Indian take out. The nutritional content really wasn't that bad. The calories were too high.
Today I bought lunch (something I do too much and plan to cut back on -- largely because it's expensive). What I got was a vegetarian sandwich (described as: sliced cucumbers, vine tomatoes, avocado, red onions, watercress and organic baby arugula drizzled with housemade dijon vinaigrette on organic whole grain baguette). I don't think the fact I bought it instead of making it myself makes it less healthy.
I actually ate way more ultraprocessed things than normal today (since I do have a bit of a whole foods fetish) -- a Quest bar (poor planning and the only snack available when I wanted one), protein powder (since I'm still trying to figure out how I will get the protein I like with my breakfast if I'm not having eggs), and some Mexican crumbles soy thing I decided to try out, as well as some polenta I purchased in a tube vs. making myself for convenience. And the purchased lunch, of course. Despite that my diet was way under for sugar, definitely under for sat fat, included many vegetables, and fit my planned macros almost on the nose. So I am not so sure that the amount of processing is the key distinction, although I really do like focusing on whole foods. I think it's that Americans eat tons of snacky items and not nearly enough vegetables (or fruit).
Your lunch sounds delicious AND healthy, and is something i wouldn't describe as processed food. Like is always mentioned here, my processed food may not be the next persons.
I'm the first to admit I would find it impossible to eat a 100% "clean diet ", meaning zero processed foods. I just try and keep them as a small part of my diet, not the majority of, which I'd guess most people on this thread would do too??
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