How and why carbs and a high carb intake will keep you fat!!

i'd be VERY careful throwing around this study, it's a short term study (done over 2 weeks, with 1 week being a control) and using highly trained performance athletes, who will have significantly different metabolic effects than 99% of the general population.

Of course there are study limitations, as all studies have limitations, but it's still relevant to our discussion and should be considered when looking at varying protein intakes.

I don't know about "significantly different metabolic effects," though. If anything their caloric output via TEA (thermic effect of activity) will be increased, but they aren't inherently calorie-burning machines. Actually this works the opposite way, though. The fact that they are already strength conditioned athletes would almost imply their trained bodies would hold onto muscle to a greater extent, yet in 2 weeks of adopting a higher protein diet, they held onto a statistically significant higher amount.

Yes there are limitations, though, you are correct. This is a relatively new concept in empirical observation, so we'll see much more in the next few years.

I have 4 or 5 studies somewhere, i'll see if I can dig them up, that show pretty much the opposite results with obese and normal weight individuals, I.E. high protein intake didn't make any significant change in LBM while increasing urea output (I.E. increased kidney function and liver function which can be a bad thing, especially if the person has metabolic related disorders that can effect organs).

Hey if you can dig them up, I'll be sure to give them a read. I'd love some new perspective.

I'd say this, we're pretty sure that between .4g and .7g per pound body weight in protein will be relatively safe, and won't cause any serious long term health effects (another problem with these studies, no long term research means for people who need to do this for a year or more, we just don't know what it could do to them) in and of itself. Thus I'd always lean towards caution.

That's fair. I would say .7 - .8g per pound LBM is a common suggestion for people who aren't physically active. I just feel like these boards are probably more heavily populated with people who do exercise, and thus higher protein is safer for muscle-sparing effects in terms of fat loss.

Personally, my theory is that as body fat % goes down, the need for protein goes up with moderate to intense exercise, there is some correlation for this (again, I'll have to find the studies, I'm at work so I can't right now), but ultimately, caps out somewhere around .7 to .8 grams per lb of body weight (I.E. between 1 gram per Kilo and 1.5 grams per kilo body weight) with extreme athletes sometimes being able to utilize up to 2 grams per kilo (just shy of 1 gram per pound).

That's a great theory. And I would bet a lot of money it's true. The less stored fat = the higher chance of stored amino acids undergoing gluconeogenesis for fuel. There's a reason why bodybuilders weighing 180 pounds at 6% body fat will eat a diet of 1,400 calories 2 weeks leading up to a show entirely composed of pure protein. Low body fat + low intake + physically active = catabolic, and significantly higher protein works to offset that (enough amino acids to nourish muscles + enough free amino acids for your body to use freely as fuel).

I will say I think we're splitting hairs a bit here though, if you tell someone to eat around .6 grams per pound, I think they'd be fine in 95% of the cases.

Fine? Undoubtedly. But based on the research I've read, I would still recommend a slightly higher intake ESPECIALLY when physically active for optimal results.

Is butter a carb?

\
NO

The body likes to go to carbs for energy. The body uses proteins to build muscles and repair, but it can catabolize them for energy if it needs to. However, it cannot use carbs to do what protein does, help you build muscle and repair. Knowing that lean muscle mass helps your metabolism, that alone, should probably make more people err on the side of protein, if there is protein in disagreement.

Form and function. If you're going to burn all of the carbs you take in, then eat them. I need them. If I don't get enough, as a marathon runner, I will start to use protein for energy and it's just not quite as efficient. I went over this process in bio.

A runner can still be skinny fat on lots of cardio though. Not enough protein, no muscle and all fat(even if they're still thin). Or taking in more carbs than they need.

Complex carbs are probably a better choice just due to their chemical bonding. It takes a lot of energy to break down polymers rather than just handing it simple monomers(often simple sugars).

This is my understanding.

[i'd be VERY careful throwing around this study, it's a short term study (done over 2 weeks, with 1 week being a control) and using highly trained performance athletes, who will have significantly different metabolic effects than 99% of the general population.

I have 4 or 5 studies somewhere, i'll see if I can dig them up, that show pretty much the opposite results with obese and normal weight individuals, I.E. high protein intake didn't make any significant change in LBM while increasing urea output (I.E. increased kidney function and liver function which can be a bad thing, especially if the person has metabolic related disorders that can effect organs).

I'd say this, we're pretty sure that between .4g and .7g per pound body weight in protein will be relatively safe, and won't cause any serious long term health effects (another problem with these studies, no long term research means for people who need to do this for a year or more, we just don't know what it could do to them) in and of itself. Thus I'd always lean towards caution.

Personally, my theory is that as body fat % goes down, the need for protein goes up with moderate to intense exercise, there is some correlation for this (again, I'll have to find the studies, I'm at work so I can't right now), but ultimately, caps out somewhere around .7 to .8 grams per lb of body weight (I.E. between 1 gram per Kilo and 1.5 grams per kilo body weight) with extreme athletes sometimes being able to utilize up to 2 grams per kilo (just shy of 1 gram per pound).

I will say I think we're splitting hairs a bit here though, if you tell someone to eat around .6 grams per pound, I think they'd be fine in 95% of the cases.

Just trying to make the point that consuming protein in excess of 30-35% or roughly 1g/lb of lean body mass isn't exactly 'bro-science'. There is nothing inherently wrong with consuming more than the aforementioned levels of protein, because as I stated before, the optimal level of protein is context dependent and not some hard and fast figure that one shouldn't exceed. Someone on Lyle McDonald's PSMF would benefit highly from consuming 1.0-1.5 grams of protein per lbs of bodyweight and have been doing it for a long time.

On a related note, when consuming alot of protein or even moderate protein, it's always good to accompany that with a lot of cruciferous veggies.

bump

And further, on the glucose is glucose thing, yes it is. But it takes breaking those chemical bonds, depending on its source, which takes energy to do so, before it becomes an individual glucose monomer that your body would use to create ATP.

I believe mynameisuntz has mentioned the TEF on a few occasions! lol

And further, on the glucose is glucose thing, yes it is. But it takes breaking those chemical bonds, depending on its source, which takes energy to do so, before it becomes an individual glucose monomer that your body would use to create ATP.

I believe mynameisuntz has mentioned the TEF on a few occasions! lol

I think she sees it now

SOOO, if you consume all your calories (but don't go over) and 80% of them are carbs...there's nothing wrong with that???? Say goodbye to a normal blood sugar level.

Tell that to the Okinawans. Dietary staples: white rice and starchy vegetables. Their carb intake, depending on time period and season, has been estimated to fluctuate between 60 - 90% of their calories.

Guess what? They are the longest-living people on earth with the lowest rates of disability in old age.

And here we are in America talking about how high carbs are bad. The Okinawans are laughing as they are still active at 90 years of age.

The Tarahumara might be another interesting population to study, as they are a long-distance running population in Mexico with a carb-heavy diet. Or the Sardinians in Italy with a carb-based diet, also one of the longest-living populations on earth with the lowest rates of disability.

Great read while I sit at Panara Bread...hmmm...what should I order?

A loaf of buttery bread :-P just kidding

Do they still offer the bread mobile??

Now that is some awesome stuff lol

I wasn't arguing with ya, mynameisuntz...

Also, I had no idea what TEF meant. I was just calling off of what I learned in bio.