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Low carb and vegetables
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lisawinning4losing wrote: »I would just like to say, for the record, that even at <20 carbs, you can still eat a lot of veggies. According to my little package here, 3 oz of baby butter lettuce and baby kale has 3 grams of carbs, and 1 gram of that is fiber. And 3 oz of fresh green beans has 6 grams of carbs. Seems to me like you could eat a load of vegetables and be still be under 20 grams of carbs.
I think you and I have different ideas about what "a lot of veggies" means. :-) I had over 45 grams of carbs just from carrots and broccoli today, 14g fiber, 20 oz total.0 -
lisawinning4losing wrote: »I would just like to say, for the record, that even at <20 carbs, you can still eat a lot of veggies. According to my little package here, 3 oz of baby butter lettuce and baby kale has 3 grams of carbs, and 1 gram of that is fiber. And 3 oz of fresh green beans has 6 grams of carbs. Seems to me like you could eat a load of vegetables and be still be under 20 grams of carbs.
I think you and I have different ideas about what "a lot of veggies" means. :-) I had over 45 grams of carbs just from carrots and broccoli today, 14g fiber, 20 oz total.
Fair enough, but I suspect a lot of that had to do with the carrots. Low carbers mostly avoid root vegetables and starchy vegetables.1 -
But yeah, I'll agree that "a lot" is relative.
Honestly, I'm not really worried about anyone eating carrots. I'm much more worried about all the processed food and that kind of stuff. You can eat all the carrots you want as far as I'm concerned, if that's what you like. You can go full Bugs Bunny style, and it won't bother me!1 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Well said! Especially the last paragraph
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Seriously? I can eat bread, pasta and fit in a kitkat or a couple of squares of dark chocolate on my fast days (800 calories) while still consuming twice the vegetables a <20 carber does. What a low carber considers "a lot of vegetables" is less than 100 calories of vegetables, and even this is a very generous estemate. This just doesn't make sense. It's entirely possible to get enough vegetable on a >20 carb diet (half of which is gone elsewhere), but not possible on a 120+ carb diet? Is 100+ grams of carbs not enough for bread, pasta and ice cream (which by the way has less than 20 grams of carbs per serving)? So people intentionally cut off the 50 or so calories which is considered "lots of vegetables" in order to have ice cream? Does not compute...
Bad planning is one thing, straw manning it to a generalization is another. Anyone who cares about getting enough vegetables and plans accordingly is able to get the recommended minimum low carbers say they get, regardless of their diet or calorie level.
Edit: to demonstrate, here is a fast day where I had a sweet snack and bread in one day and still have 200 calories left I could have spent on pasta.
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Veggies can easily fit into either a high carb diet or a low carb diet. Veggies are for everyone.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Seriously? I can eat bread, pasta and fit in a kitkat or a couple of squares of dark chocolate on my fast days (800 calories) while still consuming twice the vegetables a <20 carber does. What a low carber considers "a lot of vegetables" is less than 100 calories of vegetables, and even this is a very generous estemate. This just doesn't make sense. It's entirely possible to get enough vegetable on a >20 carb diet (half of which is gone elsewhere), but not possible on a 120+ carb diet? Is 100+ grams of carbs not enough for bread, pasta and ice cream (which by the way has less than 20 grams of carbs per serving)? So people intentionally cut off the 50 or so calories which is considered "lots of vegetables" in order to have ice cream? Does not compute...
Bad planning is one thing, straw manning it to a generalization is another. Anyone who cares about getting enough vegetables and plans accordingly is able to get the recommended minimum low carbers say they get, regardless of their diet or calorie level.
Edit: to demonstrate, here is a fast day where I had a sweet snack and bread in one day and still have 200 calories left I could have spent on pasta.
yet I would have eaten a piece of fruit, instead of the kit-kat.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Seriously? I can eat bread, pasta and fit in a kitkat or a couple of squares of dark chocolate on my fast days (800 calories) while still consuming twice the vegetables a <20 carber does. What a low carber considers "a lot of vegetables" is less than 100 calories of vegetables, and even this is a very generous estemate. This just doesn't make sense. It's entirely possible to get enough vegetable on a >20 carb diet (half of which is gone elsewhere), but not possible on a 120+ carb diet? Is 100+ grams of carbs not enough for bread, pasta and ice cream (which by the way has less than 20 grams of carbs per serving)? So people intentionally cut off the 50 or so calories which is considered "lots of vegetables" in order to have ice cream? Does not compute...
Bad planning is one thing, straw manning it to a generalization is another. Anyone who cares about getting enough vegetables and plans accordingly is able to get the recommended minimum low carbers say they get, regardless of their diet or calorie level.
Edit: to demonstrate, here is a fast day where I had a sweet snack and bread in one day and still have 200 calories left I could have spent on pasta.
yet I would have eaten a piece of fruit, instead of the kit-kat.
I eat plenty of fruits on other days. Heck, I could have eaten a piece of fruit on that day since I had about 200 calories left over. Now you are just nitpicking.0 -
Honestly, if someone's doing a 1200 calorie diet and all they care about is calories, I could easily see them sacrificing 50 calories in vegetables in order to have a cookie instead. Sure, why not? I bet it happens all the time. Because it's just all about calories, right? And that cookie sure looks better than that broccoli, to someone who's been on SAD. Of course you can have both, but, keep in mind that you still need to have enough calories for food that will stick to your ribs, and most people are going to gravitate more toward the cookie after their belly is full than toward the broccoli. Why have vegetables on the side when you can have dessert instead? It's all just calories, right?
Also, I'd like to point out that salad greens are very light, so 3 oz is a lot. It's the entire box, in fact. You can't even fit it all on one plate. It's like two or three big salads. It's like a mountain of lettuce and spinach and stuff. But it's only 3 grams of carbs. The average person absolutely does not eat that much salad in one day. The average person doesn't even eat vegetables every day. And I still have 17 carbs left over, if I'm doing 20 carbs.
And if my garden keeps going well, I'll soon be picking my own lettuce and spinach! Yay!0 -
lisawinning4losing wrote: »Honestly, if someone's doing a 1200 calorie diet and all they care about is calories, I could easily see them sacrificing 50 calories in vegetables in order to have a cookie instead. Sure, why not? I bet it happens all the time. Because it's just all about calories, right? And that cookie sure looks better than that broccoli, to someone who's been on SAD. Of course you can have both, but, keep in mind that you still need to have enough calories for food that will stick to your ribs, and most people are going to gravitate more toward the cookie after their belly is full than toward the broccoli. Why have vegetables on the side when you can have dessert instead? It's all just calories, right?
Also, I'd like to point out that salad greens are very light, so 3 oz is a lot. It's the entire box, in fact. You can't even fit it all on one plate. It's like two or three big salads. It's like a mountain of lettuce and spinach and stuff. But it's only 3 grams of carbs. The average person absolutely does not eat that much salad in one day. The average person doesn't even eat vegetables every day. And I still have 17 carbs left over, if I'm doing 20 carbs.
And if my garden keeps going well, I'll soon be picking my own lettuce and spinach! Yay!
That could be said about anyone on any diet (substitute bacon in case of low carb).
Speaking on home-grown spinach. It's amazing! You pick it and it keeps growing back, so by the time you have eaten the previous batch, a new one is waiting for you. Definitely convenient. I have other vegetables and fruits but never had spinach before. This is the first year I decided to give it a try. I just didn't think it was worth it with the limited space I have, but it turns out it is!0 -
This is my first time ever gardening, at least since childhood. It's exciting, watching everything grow!0
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Unfortunately, a lot of the vegetables I eat don't grow very well at my house (on the flip side though, tomatoes, green peppers, and cucumbers are among those that do).0
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Usually the same people advocating for small treats also advocate for a moderate deficit and using exercise to up daily calorie intake because it's easier to sustain long term.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Usually the same people advocating for small treats also advocate for a moderate deficit and using exercise to up daily calorie intake because it's easier to sustain long term.
And to add on, those same people always recommend addressing all other nutritional requirements prior to eating goodies, which generally limits junk for to 10% of calories of less.0 -
I don't think everyone is an agreement on that amount, as I've seen some say that kind of food can make up more of one's diet.Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Usually the same people advocating for small treats also advocate for a moderate deficit and using exercise to up daily calorie intake because it's easier to sustain long term.
And to add on, those same people always recommend addressing all other nutritional requirements prior to eating goodies, which generally limits junk for to 10% of calories of less.
0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Usually the same people advocating for small treats also advocate for a moderate deficit and using exercise to up daily calorie intake because it's easier to sustain long term.
I'd also make the case that almost all WOE's have treats built into them. The treats just look different. I think the only diets that probably don't have some level of treats are VLCD or those which verge on ED, which of course are not recommended.
I'd agree with that. I keep seeing a lot of low-carbers rave about fat bombs because it feels like a treat, keeps them feeling full, and fits their macro goals.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I don't think everyone is an agreement on that amount, as I've seen some say that kind of food can make up more of one's diet.Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Usually the same people advocating for small treats also advocate for a moderate deficit and using exercise to up daily calorie intake because it's easier to sustain long term.
And to add on, those same people always recommend addressing all other nutritional requirements prior to eating goodies, which generally limits junk for to 10% of calories of less.
The amount of driven by the context of the situation. Those losing weight will have less room for treats than those maintaining and even more so, than those who are gaining. My number is mainly for those losing as that is the predominance of the community. And while there is some flexibility in that number, as it would be based on the number of calories and how good the remainder of your diet is.
0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I would say I eat vegetables about the same. But I agree, most low carbers still have a mindset that a plate should have protein plus side dishes. Replacing said sides with cruciferous greens and such instead of rice, noodles, bread, or potatoes is likely to occur.
Meatitarians are the exception, not the rule. And I, for one, appreciate their commitment to their n=1 experiments and sharing them with us, though it is not a choice I would make for myself.
I get the whole "If you eat more veggies on low carb, then you had a crap diet" but that's sort of irrelevant. Equally irrelevant, I would say it's *easier* to be low carb on 1300 k/cal and be satiated than on a standard reduced-calorie 1300 k/cal diet, even if they are both eating the same vegetables. I would also argue that if you are satiated on a 1300 kcal diet, then maybe, if you look at your *net* carb intake, you might realize you are technically low-carb (not necessarily keto).
I would add that those who are on a standard reduced-calorie of 1200/1300 cal diet and keep eating sugary treats and starchy foods are surely not meeting the 5-a-day recommendation...
I ate low starch, but got plenty of veg and some sweets on 1250. Feel free to look back to 2014, when I logged more consistently.
OK, let's run a report on April 2014, shall we?
So as I see you ate ice cream or gelato... twice, on 5th and 20th.
In both occasions, you went over your calorie allotment (1441 and 1568).
That should be already enough, to prove my point, but if we look closer, we can see that on April 5th you ate just 356 g of vegetables (no fruit), so slightly below the 400g recommendation...
April 5, 2014
FOODS Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
Early Morning
Squash - Zucchini, includes skin, raw, 91 g 15 3g 0g 1g 0mg 9mg 2g 1g
Cauliflower - Raw, 80 g 20 4g 0g 2g 0mg 24mg 2g 2g
Pearson - Blackeye Peas, 1/4 cup (85g) (3oz) 59 11g 0g 4g 0mg 153mg 1g 3g
Beef - Loin, bottom sirloin butt, tri-tip steak, lean only, raw, 3 oz 131 0g 7g 18g 55mg 47mg 0g 0g
Oil - Olive, 0.3 tablespoon 36 0g 4g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Essential Everyday - 1% Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/2 cup (115g) 90 5g 2g 13g 10mg 450mg 4g 0g
Lunch
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 2mg 0g 0g
Oil - Vegetable, canola, 1 tbsp 124 0g 14g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Tomatoes - Green, raw, 5 slice or wedge 23 5g 0g 1g 0mg 13mg 4g 1g
Beef - Short Ribs, 6 oz 330 0g 23g 39g 119mg 74mg 0g 0g
Potatoes - White, flesh and skin, raw, 200 g 140 31g 0g 3g 0mg 12mg 2g 5g
Wheat flour - White, all-purpose, enriched, bleached, 0.2 cup 91 19g 0g 3g 0mg 1mg 0g 1g
Afternoon
Bryers - Butter Pecan Ice Cream, 1 cup 280 36g 12g 4g 20mg 200mg 24g 0g
TOTAL: 1,441 114g 74g 88g 235mg 985mg 39g 13g
Point?
My question exactly.
I was moving from DorkothyParker's observation that the carb level on a standard 1200 cal diet can be considered "low carb". And in fact, on such a diet, 50% carb means 150 grams and 40% means 120g.
Eat some bread, a portion of pasta, 2 scoops of ice cream and there is no way you can find space for adequate amount of fruit and vegetables (while on the other hand, low carber tipically avoid those foods because of their high glycemix index).
People coming from the SAD should be educated on getting proper nutrition, instead of being told to eat treats every day otherwise they will go insane...
Usually the same people advocating for small treats also advocate for a moderate deficit and using exercise to up daily calorie intake because it's easier to sustain long term.
I'd also make the case that almost all WOE's have treats built into them. The treats just look different. I think the only diets that probably don't have some level of treats are VLCD or those which verge on ED, which of course are not recommended.
I'd agree with that. I keep seeing a lot of low-carbers rave about fat bombs because it feels like a treat, keeps them feeling full, and fits their macro goals.
I made fat bombs once, just to see. Pretty tasty. Definitely a treat. 0
This discussion has been closed.
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