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Low carb and vegetables
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
True, but the same thing could be said about a CICO model. Actually, I think you could make an argument that by eliminating some food choices, you are in effect promoting others.lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.
Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.
Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.
I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.
I agree. Yet MANY folks on here eat virtually no vegetables.
Agreed, but that's an issue with the SAD. Not a reason to promote low carb.
Nope. I eat lots of veg on normal carbs. If people didn't it is because they ate a bad diet.
And I eat a lot more veggies on low carb. If other low carb dieters do not, it is a matter of their personal choice.
It's weird to increase consumption of foods that are mostly carbs on a low carb diet. Presumably due to eating a poor diet before.
It may be weird to you, but I don't think it's weird at all. At some point, we all have huge changes in our diet. And for each of us, there is a turning point for that change. And for many LCHF, switching to that lifestyle so happens to be that point. This is very common with other restrictive diets (Paleo, Whole 30, Vegan, etc...). It one reason why restrictive diets work for some.
Start a low carb diet increase carbs isn't weird conceptually at all to you? Not what happens, just conceptually.
It's like saying
I joined a literary club, so I could read leas.
I joined the grym, so I could exercise less.
I moved to a smaller house, so I had more room for stuff.
I got my PhD, so I could be less knowledgeable.
I turned on spellchecker, so I could have more errors in my final drafts.
Sure, you could manage all those, but typically we'd assume someone was using the literary device of irony for most of those sentences.
You aren't increasing total carbs, you are refocusing your carb consumption. As already mentioned by many members, you are replacing high carb foods (breads, rice, starches) with low carb options (i.e - low sugar, low carb veggies).
And trust me, I know a ton of PhD's who are very smart in one area, but they are dumb as crap in many other areas. Over 20% of my work force has a PhD. And I keep saying, these are some of the smartest dumb people I know.0 -
According to the CDC about 10% of US respondents hit their veg intake target http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6426a1.htm#tab
The target is about 3 cups of veg for a man http://www.choosemyplate.gov/vegetables
a cup is 100 - 150g or so.0 -
According to the CDC about 10% of US respondents hit their veg intake target http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6426a1.htm#tab
The target is about 3 cups of veg for a man http://www.choosemyplate.gov/vegetables
a cup is 100 - 150g or so.
Well then, I guess I have manly dinners. Or something.
I often roast a fair amount of vegetables for the two of us, and we split them. The packages of brussel sprouts I buy are a pound, so I get about 225g when we eat those. Carrots are in a 2lb bag, and we usually split those in thirds, so I get around 300ish grams of those. Tonight we're having cabbage. I put 300g in as a place holder since I haven't weight the head yet. I eat about a quarter of that, but it's usually 1000g or more.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
That particular snack is not the point. I mentioned it to demonstrate how easily you can eat your entire allowance of carbs in vegetables in a single meal, or even a snack. I know my vegetable intake is atypical (I'm one of those people who eats a whole head of cauliflower as a side dish like you mentioned). My point, again, is that 20 net carbs is not really 20 net carbs in vegetables. Unless a person lives on steak and coconut oil, almost everything has a bit of carbs. If you eat a couple of large eggs, that's +1.2 carbs. 1 oz of Swiss cheese, that's 1.5 grams of carbs. Each single almond has about 0.2 grams of net carbs...etc. So while it's theoretically possible to consume a pound of vegetables (the minimum daily recommendation is 400 grams), you would need to be very careful with your choice of vegetables, limiting the variety and "worrying" about using too much onion, garlic, tomatoes, carrots, pepper, leeks...etc.0 -
auntchiladas wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I eat more fruits (berries/melon/grapefruit) and veggies following LC than I normally did following a SAD.
That always wondered me. By definition you have less of a window to allow for fruit and veggies on LC yet so many say they only started really eating them once they started LC.
Well, for most people transitioning into LCHF, I assume they were eating carbs in places of vegetables to feel more full. Personally, I eat way more vegetables doing Keto/LCHF because I'm not stuffing my face with potatoes or rice.
funny I get 40 to 50% of my diet from carbs and I have no issues getting in fruits and vegetables daily ...
Good to know, but on some days your veg intake would also fit on Atkins Phase 1
that is just about 200 grams of vegetables in one sitting and I take a daily multi-vitamin to supplement....so no, I am not on anything close to Atkins...0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
That particular snack is not the point. I mentioned it to demonstrate how easily you can eat your entire allowance of carbs in vegetables in a single meal, or even a snack. I know my vegetable intake is atypical (I'm one of those people who eats a whole head of cauliflower as a side dish like you mentioned). My point, again, is that 20 net carbs is not really 20 net carbs in vegetables. Unless a person lives on steak and coconut oil, almost everything has a bit of carbs. If you eat a couple of large eggs, that's +1.2 carbs. 1 oz of Swiss cheese, that's 1.5 grams of carbs. Each single almond has about 0.2 grams of net carbs...etc. So while it's theoretically possible to consume a pound of vegetables (the minimum daily recommendation is 400 grams), you would need to be very careful with your choice of vegetables, limiting the variety and "worrying" about using too much onion, garlic, tomatoes, carrots, pepper, leeks...etc.
400g of garlic and onion would really be unresonable
I think that tomatoes and pepper are compatible with keto.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
That particular snack is not the point. I mentioned it to demonstrate how easily you can eat your entire allowance of carbs in vegetables in a single meal, or even a snack. I know my vegetable intake is atypical (I'm one of those people who eats a whole head of cauliflower as a side dish like you mentioned). My point, again, is that 20 net carbs is not really 20 net carbs in vegetables. Unless a person lives on steak and coconut oil, almost everything has a bit of carbs. If you eat a couple of large eggs, that's +1.2 carbs. 1 oz of Swiss cheese, that's 1.5 grams of carbs. Each single almond has about 0.2 grams of net carbs...etc. So while it's theoretically possible to consume a pound of vegetables (the minimum daily recommendation is 400 grams), you would need to be very careful with your choice of vegetables, limiting the variety and "worrying" about using too much onion, garlic, tomatoes, carrots, pepper, leeks...etc.
400g of garlic and onion would really be unresonable
I think that tomatoes and pepper are compatible with keto.
Especially since if you log it in a recipe on MFP that would likely be around 423200 calories...0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
That particular snack is not the point. I mentioned it to demonstrate how easily you can eat your entire allowance of carbs in vegetables in a single meal, or even a snack. I know my vegetable intake is atypical (I'm one of those people who eats a whole head of cauliflower as a side dish like you mentioned). My point, again, is that 20 net carbs is not really 20 net carbs in vegetables. Unless a person lives on steak and coconut oil, almost everything has a bit of carbs. If you eat a couple of large eggs, that's +1.2 carbs. 1 oz of Swiss cheese, that's 1.5 grams of carbs. Each single almond has about 0.2 grams of net carbs...etc. So while it's theoretically possible to consume a pound of vegetables (the minimum daily recommendation is 400 grams), you would need to be very careful with your choice of vegetables, limiting the variety and "worrying" about using too much onion, garlic, tomatoes, carrots, pepper, leeks...etc.
400g of garlic and onion would really be unresonable
I think that tomatoes and pepper are compatible with keto.
You know what I mean
When I did keto I was very wary of onions and garlic because they added too many net carbs per gram, carbs that I could save for a tomato. A teaspoon of sugar would still be compatible with keto just because it has only a few net carbs, but it doesn't look good per weight consumed and some would rather save those carbs for something else. To reach the minimum recommended daily amount of vegetables, here is how pepper looks:
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stevencloser wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
Oh, good to know. I'm an unreasonable vegetable eater. Most of my dinners at home involve 200-300g of vegetables.
I also feel like that isn't that much, is that really the recommendation? Or just "absolute minimum"?
In the U.S., the USDA has somewhat vague recommendations for serving size, such as "1 cup cooked, or two cups raw, chopped vegetables." I wish they would make recommendations based on raw weight. For one thing, two cups of raw spinach does not end up being 1 cup of cooked spinach. Depending on how you cook a vegetable, the weight can change drastically. I usually consider a 1/4 pound of a raw vegetable to be a serving size. That's about 113 grams, and usually about 1 cup steamed or boiled. Many frozen vegetables in the US come in a one pound package, and it's convenient. My 5-a-day works out to about 560 grams of a variety of vegetables a day.
I don't think anyone will go wrong going over the recommendation with non-starchy vegetables. All this talk of vegetables is reminding me of how long it's been since I had butternut squash, one of my faves. I need to see what that's going to do to my carb plan.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
Oh, good to know. I'm an unreasonable vegetable eater. Most of my dinners at home involve 200-300g of vegetables.
I also feel like that isn't that much, is that really the recommendation? Or just "absolute minimum"?
The WHO say a portion is 80 grams and that's what 5 a day is based on. Large portions of the population eat less than that. Look up the median for your country or state it's quite an eye opener.
I would probably have 160 - 240 g of vegetables with dinner, but I wouldn't eat a whole cauliflower (but I do know volume eaters that would).
Good to know! (I could totally eat a whole cauliflower. It's only with great effort that I stop myself, most of the time).0 -
stevencloser wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
Oh, good to know. I'm an unreasonable vegetable eater. Most of my dinners at home involve 200-300g of vegetables.
I also feel like that isn't that much, is that really the recommendation? Or just "absolute minimum"?
The WHO say a portion is 80 grams and that's what 5 a day is based on. Large portions of the population eat less than that. Look up the median for your country or state it's quite an eye opener.
I would probably have 160 - 240 g of vegetables with dinner, but I wouldn't eat a whole cauliflower (but I do know volume eaters that would).
Make a good cauliflower salad and you'll have to stop yourself from eating less than two.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
Oh, good to know. I'm an unreasonable vegetable eater. Most of my dinners at home involve 200-300g of vegetables.
I also feel like that isn't that much, is that really the recommendation? Or just "absolute minimum"?
The WHO say a portion is 80 grams and that's what 5 a day is based on. Large portions of the population eat less than that. Look up the median for your country or state it's quite an eye opener.
I would probably have 160 - 240 g of vegetables with dinner, but I wouldn't eat a whole cauliflower (but I do know volume eaters that would).
Make a good cauliflower salad and you'll have to stop yourself from eating less than two.
Does not compute.
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stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
Oh, good to know. I'm an unreasonable vegetable eater. Most of my dinners at home involve 200-300g of vegetables.
I also feel like that isn't that much, is that really the recommendation? Or just "absolute minimum"?
The WHO say a portion is 80 grams and that's what 5 a day is based on. Large portions of the population eat less than that. Look up the median for your country or state it's quite an eye opener.
I would probably have 160 - 240 g of vegetables with dinner, but I wouldn't eat a whole cauliflower (but I do know volume eaters that would).
Make a good cauliflower salad and you'll have to stop yourself from eating less than two.
Does not compute.
Blasphemy!
Balsamic vinegar, olive oil, lots of black pepper, it's delicious.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
Oh, good to know. I'm an unreasonable vegetable eater. Most of my dinners at home involve 200-300g of vegetables.
I also feel like that isn't that much, is that really the recommendation? Or just "absolute minimum"?
In the U.S., the USDA has somewhat vague recommendations for serving size, such as "1 cup cooked, or two cups raw, chopped vegetables." I wish they would make recommendations based on raw weight. For one thing, two cups of raw spinach does not end up being 1 cup of cooked spinach. Depending on how you cook a vegetable, the weight can change drastically. I usually consider a 1/4 pound of a raw vegetable to be a serving size. That's about 113 grams, and usually about 1 cup steamed or boiled. Many frozen vegetables in the US come in a one pound package, and it's convenient. My 5-a-day works out to about 560 grams of a variety of vegetables a day.
I don't think anyone will go wrong going over the recommendation with non-starchy vegetables. All this talk of vegetables is reminding me of how long it's been since I had butternut squash, one of my faves. I need to see what that's going to do to my carb plan.
If you look throughout the thread, their are recommendation equivalents given by the USDA for it. The thought is that the USDA recommendations are food for thought (sorry bad pun, intentional) and not a strict cookie cutter program that they expect someone to follow down to grams. Putting their baseline recommendations in grams is more likely to get people to go "well I'm not weighing everything I eat, that's obssessive and excessive" (and yes, I'm aware it makes it self deprecatory and kind of contrasts the idea of calorie counting working, conceptually) then they are go to go "well, let's go buy a food scale and start weighing." The idea behind it is to encourage eating more vegetables than most people are, and most people eyeball things in volume, more so than picking things up and guessing a weight, and people are probably far more sucessful at eyeballing weight than handballing (wait, that's not a term) the weight (now that last wait is an unintentional pun) of an item.
I generally only becomes a problem if someone takes it semi-seriously and grabs cups after cups of lettuce with very little weight. Even that is hardly a problem if it is still cups of lettuce they weren't eating before.0 -
@senecarr I can see the rationale, and I doubt Americans will go wrong by overindulging in vegetables. I'd just like official reassurance that I'm meeting the minimum, and not deluding myself when I think that 1/4 of the package of green beans is a serving. I love obsessing over things I can measure, like the weight of my food, and hate obsessing over not having enough information, like not knowing if my green beans are really less than a cup because they're coarsely chopped and less densely packed into the cup. Doing servings by mass would make it so easy.0
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lithezebra wrote: »@senecarr I can see the rationale, and I doubt Americans will go wrong by overindulging in vegetables. I'd just like official reassurance that I'm meeting the minimum, and not deluding myself when I think that 1/4 of the package of green beans is a serving. I love obsessing over things I can measure, like the weight of my food, and hate obsessing over not having enough information, like not knowing if my green beans are really less than a cup because they're coarsely chopped and less densely packed into the cup. Doing servings by mass would make it so easy.
That which gets measured gets improved?0 -
lithezebra wrote: »@senecarr I can see the rationale, and I doubt Americans will go wrong by overindulging in vegetables. I'd just like official reassurance that I'm meeting the minimum, and not deluding myself when I think that 1/4 of the package of green beans is a serving. I love obsessing over things I can measure, like the weight of my food, and hate obsessing over not having enough information, like not knowing if my green beans are really less than a cup because they're coarsely chopped and less densely packed into the cup. Doing servings by mass would make it so easy.
That which gets measured gets improved?
Yes! Data, I love having accurate data, that enables me to evaluate what I'm doing, objectively, so that my changes are intentional.0 -
It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/0 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I find this discussion really interesting to read. If someone asked me how to do a low carb diet I'd say: protein (meat) and veg with every meal.
I wouldn't go as far as "with every meal". At least not in any reasonable portions. There simply is not enough carbs in the typical 20 net carb keto plan to accommodate a reasonable portion with every meal, unless you severely limit the vegetable choices or their portions. Now a 50 gram net carbs plan would be more reasonable. Here is a snack I had today:
Clearly eating a tomato and a green beans would not be the best choices for vegetables since that would consume 16 grams of net carbs, even though they are not starchy or high carb per se. If you had cheese or a few nuts on that day, you're basically done for the day and can't fit in any more vegetables.
230 grams of green beans isn't a reasonable portion as a side vegetable, it's almost three WHO "5-a-day" portions. A 300g bag split between three of us would be our size of portion ie 100g each with 3.2g of carbohydrate.
In fact you ate the whole 5-a-day allocation in that "snack" anyway.
Oh, good to know. I'm an unreasonable vegetable eater. Most of my dinners at home involve 200-300g of vegetables.
I also feel like that isn't that much, is that really the recommendation? Or just "absolute minimum"?
The WHO say a portion is 80 grams and that's what 5 a day is based on. Large portions of the population eat less than that. Look up the median for your country or state it's quite an eye opener.
I would probably have 160 - 240 g of vegetables with dinner, but I wouldn't eat a whole cauliflower (but I do know volume eaters that would).
Make a good cauliflower salad and you'll have to stop yourself from eating less than two.
Does not compute.
Blasphemy!
Balsamic vinegar, olive oil, lots of black pepper, it's delicious.
And roast the cauliflower with garlic to kick it up a notch.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
So people keep referring to WHO recommendations, but the whole issue revolves around blatently ignoring the first recommendation:A healthy diet contains:- Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
- At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2). Potatoes, sweet potatoes, cassava and other starchy roots are not classified as fruits or vegetables.
- Less than 10% of total energy intake from free sugars (2, 5) which is equivalent to 50 g (or around 12 level teaspoons) for a person of healthy body weight consuming approximately 2000 calories per day, but ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for additional health benefits (5). Most free sugars are added to foods or drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and can also be found in sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
- Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats (1, 2, 3). Unsaturated fats (e.g. found in fish, avocado, nuts, sunflower, canola and olive oils) are preferable to saturated fats (e.g. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard) (3). Industrial trans fats (found in processed food, fast food, snack food, fried food, frozen pizza, pies, cookies, margarines and spreads) are not part of a healthy diet.
- Less than 5 g of salt (equivalent to approximately 1 teaspoon) per day (6) and use iodized salt.
0 -
lithezebra wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.
Even before I started low carb, and was only eating a few servings of vegetables a day, I was amazed at how many vegetarian friends I had who ate almost no non-starchy vegetables, no leafy greens, nothing cruciferous, no peppers, only potatoes, corn, legumes, soy products and tomato sauce in the form of spaghetti or cheese pizza.
Lots of Americans eat poor diets. That others eat bad diets does not make one's diet acceptable.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
So people keep referring to WHO recommendations, but the whole issue revolves around blatently ignoring the first recommendation:A healthy diet contains:- Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
- At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2). Potatoes, sweet potatoes, cassava and other starchy roots are not classified as fruits or vegetables.
- Less than 10% of total energy intake from free sugars (2, 5) which is equivalent to 50 g (or around 12 level teaspoons) for a person of healthy body weight consuming approximately 2000 calories per day, but ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for additional health benefits (5). Most free sugars are added to foods or drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and can also be found in sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
- Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats (1, 2, 3). Unsaturated fats (e.g. found in fish, avocado, nuts, sunflower, canola and olive oils) are preferable to saturated fats (e.g. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard) (3). Industrial trans fats (found in processed food, fast food, snack food, fried food, frozen pizza, pies, cookies, margarines and spreads) are not part of a healthy diet.
- Less than 5 g of salt (equivalent to approximately 1 teaspoon) per day (6) and use iodized salt.
The whole idea of keto goes against the 4th point to begin with.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
So people keep referring to WHO recommendations, but the whole issue revolves around blatently ignoring the first recommendation:A healthy diet contains:- Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
- At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2). Potatoes, sweet potatoes, cassava and other starchy roots are not classified as fruits or vegetables.
- Less than 10% of total energy intake from free sugars (2, 5) which is equivalent to 50 g (or around 12 level teaspoons) for a person of healthy body weight consuming approximately 2000 calories per day, but ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for additional health benefits (5). Most free sugars are added to foods or drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and can also be found in sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
- Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats (1, 2, 3). Unsaturated fats (e.g. found in fish, avocado, nuts, sunflower, canola and olive oils) are preferable to saturated fats (e.g. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard) (3). Industrial trans fats (found in processed food, fast food, snack food, fried food, frozen pizza, pies, cookies, margarines and spreads) are not part of a healthy diet.
- Less than 5 g of salt (equivalent to approximately 1 teaspoon) per day (6) and use iodized salt.
It seems many are ignoring other salient points of those recommendations as well including the 30% limit on fats.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
So people keep referring to WHO recommendations, but the whole issue revolves around blatently ignoring the first recommendation:A healthy diet contains:- Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
- At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2). Potatoes, sweet potatoes, cassava and other starchy roots are not classified as fruits or vegetables.
- Less than 10% of total energy intake from free sugars (2, 5) which is equivalent to 50 g (or around 12 level teaspoons) for a person of healthy body weight consuming approximately 2000 calories per day, but ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for additional health benefits (5). Most free sugars are added to foods or drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and can also be found in sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
- Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats (1, 2, 3). Unsaturated fats (e.g. found in fish, avocado, nuts, sunflower, canola and olive oils) are preferable to saturated fats (e.g. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard) (3). Industrial trans fats (found in processed food, fast food, snack food, fried food, frozen pizza, pies, cookies, margarines and spreads) are not part of a healthy diet.
- Less than 5 g of salt (equivalent to approximately 1 teaspoon) per day (6) and use iodized salt.
The whole idea of keto goes against the 4th point to begin with.
Yes, and the first one that a healthy diet includes whole grains and legumes.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
So people keep referring to WHO recommendations, but the whole issue revolves around blatently ignoring the first recommendation:A healthy diet contains:- Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
- At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2). Potatoes, sweet potatoes, cassava and other starchy roots are not classified as fruits or vegetables.
- Less than 10% of total energy intake from free sugars (2, 5) which is equivalent to 50 g (or around 12 level teaspoons) for a person of healthy body weight consuming approximately 2000 calories per day, but ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for additional health benefits (5). Most free sugars are added to foods or drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and can also be found in sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
- Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats (1, 2, 3). Unsaturated fats (e.g. found in fish, avocado, nuts, sunflower, canola and olive oils) are preferable to saturated fats (e.g. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard) (3). Industrial trans fats (found in processed food, fast food, snack food, fried food, frozen pizza, pies, cookies, margarines and spreads) are not part of a healthy diet.
- Less than 5 g of salt (equivalent to approximately 1 teaspoon) per day (6) and use iodized salt.
Guidelines that are very high in carbs don't work well for a lot of people suffering from blood sugar disorders. Many people also get blood lipid improvements with a lower carb diet. This thread is about eating vegetables on a low carb diet, not about eating them on a high carb diet.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.
Even before I started low carb, and was only eating a few servings of vegetables a day, I was amazed at how many vegetarian friends I had who ate almost no non-starchy vegetables, no leafy greens, nothing cruciferous, no peppers, only potatoes, corn, legumes, soy products and tomato sauce in the form of spaghetti or cheese pizza.
Lots of Americans eat poor diets. That others eat bad diets does not make one's diet acceptable.
Your moral judgment is, as always, a tremendous help.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.
Even before I started low carb, and was only eating a few servings of vegetables a day, I was amazed at how many vegetarian friends I had who ate almost no non-starchy vegetables, no leafy greens, nothing cruciferous, no peppers, only potatoes, corn, legumes, soy products and tomato sauce in the form of spaghetti or cheese pizza.
Lots of Americans eat poor diets. That others eat bad diets does not make one's diet acceptable.
Your moral judgment is, as always, a tremendous help.
Diets without veg are disgusting.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
So people keep referring to WHO recommendations, but the whole issue revolves around blatently ignoring the first recommendation:A healthy diet contains:- Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
- At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2). Potatoes, sweet potatoes, cassava and other starchy roots are not classified as fruits or vegetables.
- Less than 10% of total energy intake from free sugars (2, 5) which is equivalent to 50 g (or around 12 level teaspoons) for a person of healthy body weight consuming approximately 2000 calories per day, but ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for additional health benefits (5). Most free sugars are added to foods or drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and can also be found in sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
- Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats (1, 2, 3). Unsaturated fats (e.g. found in fish, avocado, nuts, sunflower, canola and olive oils) are preferable to saturated fats (e.g. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard) (3). Industrial trans fats (found in processed food, fast food, snack food, fried food, frozen pizza, pies, cookies, margarines and spreads) are not part of a healthy diet.
- Less than 5 g of salt (equivalent to approximately 1 teaspoon) per day (6) and use iodized salt.
Guidelines that are very high in carbs don't work well for a lot of people suffering from blood sugar disorders. Many people also get blood lipid improvements with a lower carb diet. This thread is about eating vegetables on a low carb diet, not about eating them on a high carb diet.
Oh, I just think it's odd that people are using recommendations that they are blatantly ignoring to support their point. I'm fine with the discussion.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »It's hard to find the WHO 5-a-day recommendations. According to Wikipedia, the WHO recommendation is a minimum of 400 grams of vegetables a day, excluding potatoes and other starchy tubers. And then there is a recommendation from a study out of University College, London, to double that recommendation, to 10-a-day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_A_Day
Oh, and here's the American iteration of 5-a-day, "More Matters," which adjusts the recommendations to anywhere from 2 to 6.5 cups of veggies/fruits a day, dependent on your caloric needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_&_Veggies_–_More_Matters
http://www.fruitsandveggiesmorematters.org/
I also cannot find the original resolution, but here is an excerpt of the current recommendations:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
So people keep referring to WHO recommendations, but the whole issue revolves around blatently ignoring the first recommendation:A healthy diet contains:- Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
- At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2). Potatoes, sweet potatoes, cassava and other starchy roots are not classified as fruits or vegetables.
- Less than 10% of total energy intake from free sugars (2, 5) which is equivalent to 50 g (or around 12 level teaspoons) for a person of healthy body weight consuming approximately 2000 calories per day, but ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for additional health benefits (5). Most free sugars are added to foods or drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and can also be found in sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
- Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats (1, 2, 3). Unsaturated fats (e.g. found in fish, avocado, nuts, sunflower, canola and olive oils) are preferable to saturated fats (e.g. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard) (3). Industrial trans fats (found in processed food, fast food, snack food, fried food, frozen pizza, pies, cookies, margarines and spreads) are not part of a healthy diet.
- Less than 5 g of salt (equivalent to approximately 1 teaspoon) per day (6) and use iodized salt.
Guidelines that are very high in carbs don't work well for a lot of people suffering from blood sugar disorders. Many people also get blood lipid improvements with a lower carb diet. This thread is about eating vegetables on a low carb diet, not about eating them on a high carb diet.
Actually, the recommendation to limit saturated fats promotes blood sugar control.0
This discussion has been closed.
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