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Low carb and vegetables

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  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    kuranda10 wrote: »
    kuranda10 wrote: »
    I eat more fruits (berries/melon/grapefruit) and veggies following LC than I normally did following a SAD.

    That always wondered me. By definition you have less of a window to allow for fruit and veggies on LC yet so many say they only started really eating them once they started LC.

    If I have bacon, eggs and hashbrowns for breakfast that doesn't leave much room (volume) for anything else. So now that I cut out the carbs from the hashbrowns I replaced them with the carbs from fruit. Instead of cake for dessert I'll have 100g of strawberries with whipped cream.

    Instead of mashed potatoes I have cauliflower mash, rice was replaced with cauliflower rice mixed with konjac rice. When Pasta is needed to carry a dish, I use zoodles etc.
    If I'm still hungry and have no calories/macros left, I'll have lettuce with vinegarette to fill me up.

    That's the confusing thing. Nothing stopped you eating any of that before going low carb. In fact you could've probably had any of that on top of the carbs you were already eating with no problem.

    Precisely!
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    Wow. Apparently I missed the memo that lemurcat12 is the sole arbiter of what is a bad diet.

    I also ate more veggies when eating low carb. They replaced starchier carbs (grains and starchy veggies).

    You didn't miss the memo for that. You missed all the memos from a lot experts that lemurcat12 is basing her statements on.
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    I eat more veg than average for the UK now, and probably did before. As someone said further up the thread I have more veg on the plate now the beige stuff is gone.

    That you ate a bad diet before is not a recommendation.

    I agree that one CAN eat a sensible diet despite being low carb, of course, but lowering veg consumption is usually not a good idea and if one didn't eat veg before going low carb, that was because you ate a bad diet.

    Yeah, but my understanding was that there is an opinion that a low carb eating plan is undesirable because it essentially limits the amount of veggies which can be consumed and that is bad. I think the stance taken by @Yarwell is that while the carb limiting does cap the amount of veggies, it doesn't do so to an extent that it is detrimental to health.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

    Like I said before, I think low carb diets can be healthy and not.

    Low carb + no veg is unhealthy (and apparently a thing in the low carb forum) but not necessary. Low carb plus veg is great, although if you didn't eat veg before going low carb it's on you.
  • Sabine_StroehmSabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,388Member Member Posts: 19,388Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I agree. Yet MANY folks on here eat virtually no vegetables.
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I think you're kind of overlooking the fact that many vegetables are low carb. So when shifting to a low carb plan, you would naturally shift to low carb options.
  • stevencloserstevencloser Posts: 8,917Member Member Posts: 8,917Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I think you're kind of overlooking the fact that many vegetables are low carb. So when shifting to a low carb plan, you would naturally shift to low carb options.

    They're only low carb by virtue of being low cal and as such would fit into any eating plan. By percentage of calories, most vegetables are nowhere near low carb if you were to have more than a handful of calories of them.
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    I eat more veg than average for the UK now, and probably did before. As someone said further up the thread I have more veg on the plate now the beige stuff is gone.

    That you ate a bad diet before is not a recommendation.

    I agree that one CAN eat a sensible diet despite being low carb, of course, but lowering veg consumption is usually not a good idea and if one didn't eat veg before going low carb, that was because you ate a bad diet.

    Yeah, but my understanding was that there is an opinion that a low carb eating plan is undesirable because it essentially limits the amount of veggies which can be consumed and that is bad. I think the stance taken by @Yarwell is that while the carb limiting does cap the amount of veggies, it doesn't do so to an extent that it is detrimental to health.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

    Like I said before, I think low carb diets can be healthy and not.

    Low carb + no veg is unhealthy (and apparently a thing in the low carb forum) but not necessary. Low carb plus veg is great, although if you didn't eat veg before going low carb it's on you.

    I would say that it CAN be unhealthy. I might even go as far to say it is somewhat risky, but necessarily always unhealthy.
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I think you're kind of overlooking the fact that many vegetables are low carb. So when shifting to a low carb plan, you would naturally shift to low carb options.

    They're only low carb by virtue of being low cal and as such would fit into any eating plan. By percentage of calories, most vegetables are nowhere near low carb if you were to have more than a handful of calories of them.
    They are low carb in terms of carbs per serving, which is the main focus of most low carb plans.

  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I think you're kind of overlooking the fact that many vegetables are low carb. So when shifting to a low carb plan, you would naturally shift to low carb options.

    It seems unlikely that going low carb by itself is going to lead to increasing vegetable intake, given carb limits means vegetables will push out other items people usually prefer. This doesn't mean people going low carb don't ever increase vegetables - I don't know the statistics. I would just imagine that the drive behind the increase is not that they have less carbs available to them (seems contradictory) but either they are trying to improve their health (both with increased vegetables and low carbing to reduce weight) or improve satiety.

    I do concur that from what I see, there do appear to be low carbers that take up low carb as a rational for avoiding vegetables. Which it is their body, they can do what they want, but I don't think the science backs up the notion of it being a particularly healthy WOE at that point.
  • Gianfranco_RGianfranco_R Posts: 1,297Member Member Posts: 1,297Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    I eat more veg than average for the UK now, and probably did before. As someone said further up the thread I have more veg on the plate now the beige stuff is gone.

    That you ate a bad diet before is not a recommendation.

    I agree that one CAN eat a sensible diet despite being low carb, of course, but lowering veg consumption is usually not a good idea and if one didn't eat veg before going low carb, that was because you ate a bad diet.

    Yeah, but my understanding was that there is an opinion that a low carb eating plan is undesirable because it essentially limits the amount of veggies which can be consumed and that is bad. I think the stance taken by @Yarwell is that while the carb limiting does cap the amount of veggies, it doesn't do so to an extent that it is detrimental to health.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

    Like I said before, I think low carb diets can be healthy and not.

    Low carb + no veg is unhealthy (and apparently a thing in the low carb forum) but not necessary. Low carb plus veg is great, although if you didn't eat veg before going low carb it's on you.

    I don't know how much it is "a thing", but I tend to think it may be an effect of the "carb war", that actually push people to extremism...
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I agree. Yet MANY folks on here eat virtually no vegetables.

    Agreed, but that's an issue with the SAD. Not a reason to promote low carb.
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    I eat more veg than average for the UK now, and probably did before. As someone said further up the thread I have more veg on the plate now the beige stuff is gone.

    That you ate a bad diet before is not a recommendation.

    I agree that one CAN eat a sensible diet despite being low carb, of course, but lowering veg consumption is usually not a good idea and if one didn't eat veg before going low carb, that was because you ate a bad diet.

    Yeah, but my understanding was that there is an opinion that a low carb eating plan is undesirable because it essentially limits the amount of veggies which can be consumed and that is bad. I think the stance taken by @Yarwell is that while the carb limiting does cap the amount of veggies, it doesn't do so to an extent that it is detrimental to health.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

    Like I said before, I think low carb diets can be healthy and not.

    Low carb + no veg is unhealthy (and apparently a thing in the low carb forum) but not necessary. Low carb plus veg is great, although if you didn't eat veg before going low carb it's on you.

    I don't know how much it is "a thing", but I tend to think it may be an effect of the "carb war", that actually push people to extremism...

    Carb war? I'll get my dice:
    car-wars-classic-03.jpg
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    I eat more veg than average for the UK now, and probably did before. As someone said further up the thread I have more veg on the plate now the beige stuff is gone.

    That you ate a bad diet before is not a recommendation.

    I agree that one CAN eat a sensible diet despite being low carb, of course, but lowering veg consumption is usually not a good idea and if one didn't eat veg before going low carb, that was because you ate a bad diet.

    Yeah, but my understanding was that there is an opinion that a low carb eating plan is undesirable because it essentially limits the amount of veggies which can be consumed and that is bad. I think the stance taken by @Yarwell is that while the carb limiting does cap the amount of veggies, it doesn't do so to an extent that it is detrimental to health.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

    Like I said before, I think low carb diets can be healthy and not.

    Low carb + no veg is unhealthy (and apparently a thing in the low carb forum) but not necessary. Low carb plus veg is great, although if you didn't eat veg before going low carb it's on you.

    I don't know how much it is "a thing", but I tend to think it may be an effect of the "carb war", that actually push people to extremism...

    Carnivore challenges seen to be a thing, which I think are super unheathy.
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    I'm eating 4-6 servings of veggies a day for the first time in my life, on low carb. I've noticed that broccoli is particularly low carb, compared to cauliflower, for example. Another way to eat more vegetables, with fewer grams of net carb, is to eat fermented vegetables.
    edited March 2016
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I agree. Yet MANY folks on here eat virtually no vegetables.

    Agreed, but that's an issue with the SAD. Not a reason to promote low carb.
    True, but the same thing could be said about a CICO model. Actually, I think you could make an argument that by eliminating some food choices, you are in effect promoting others.
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I agree. Yet MANY folks on here eat virtually no vegetables.

    Agreed, but that's an issue with the SAD. Not a reason to promote low carb.
    True, but the same thing could be said about a CICO model. Actually, I think you could make an argument that by eliminating some food choices, you are in effect promoting others.

    Nope. I eat lots of veg on normal carbs. If people didn't it is because they ate a bad diet.
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If one ate fewer veg before going low carb (and limiting veg), one ate a ridiculously poor diet and is not a good example.

    Yes, lots of Americans eat a poor diet. This is not a recommendation.

    Nope. It's not. That said, many folks vastly improve their diets when they begin eating low carb. And, yes, many eat more plant foods than the folks who tell them a low carb diet isn't healthy. That's part of the irony.

    I just think it's weird to eat so few veg that you eat more by going low carb. Super weird.

    I agree. Yet MANY folks on here eat virtually no vegetables.

    Agreed, but that's an issue with the SAD. Not a reason to promote low carb.
    True, but the same thing could be said about a CICO model. Actually, I think you could make an argument that by eliminating some food choices, you are in effect promoting others.

    Calorie counting, not CICO - all diet models follow CICO or else deny physics. And potentially, yes, calorie counting could involve limiting vegetables because that is an extra thing to fit into one's calorie allotment. Still, it isn't as big a thing as in carb restriction as the degrees of freedom is greater (a carb restriction clamps vegetables more than a calorie restriction does). While I don't want to say the plural of anecdote is data, I've yet to see anyone advocating just calorie counting that claims they're better off or just as healthy eating no or less vegetables.
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    A serving of cauliflower, green beans, spinach or broccoli typically has around 3-6 grams of carbs net, based on serving sizes of 0.5-1 cup cooked, or 1/4 pound uncooked. It's far from impossible to have 5-7 servings of those kinds of vegetables and still be on a ketogenic diet, having <50 grams of carbs net, or even total, per day.
    edited March 2016
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    lithezebra wrote: »
    A serving of cauliflower, green beans, spinach or broccoli typically has around 3-6 grams of carbs net, based on serving sizes of 0.5-1 cup cooked, or 1/4 pound uncooked. It's far from impossible to have 5-7 servings of those kinds of vegetables and still be on a ketogenic diet, having <50 grams of carbs net, or even total, per day.

    I don't think that is the claim anyone's making or has made.
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    A serving of cauliflower, green beans, spinach or broccoli typically has around 3-6 grams of carbs net, based on serving sizes of 0.5-1 cup cooked, or 1/4 pound uncooked. It's far from impossible to have 5-7 servings of those kinds of vegetables and still be on a ketogenic diet, having <50 grams of carbs net, or even total, per day.

    I don't think that is the claim anyone's making or has made.

    I apologize. I was supporting the OP's claim: "I propose that eating a low carbohydrate diet, even a ketogenic diet, is entirely compatible with vegetable consumption..." I'm new to this forum, and didn't realize that we are only allowed to refute claims.
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