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Shame - does it hinder or help you lose or gain weight?
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It made me anorexic for 4 years. So technically yes it did aid my weight loss, realistically - it messed me up mentally so hard, I still struggle with self-esteem and have done since I was 13.5
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I personaly think the complete and utter lack of shame in certain people is one of the major issues we have in contemporary Western society. It's not everyone but there is certainly a large swath of Western society who couldn't care less about other people, or what other people think of them. If you're (I'm using "you" in the royal sense here) one of them and slowing killing yourself by overeating, drinking too much, or abusing drugs, then stop whining like a child and do something about it.
You are mixing two things. If someone is overweight and whining about it, sure, the response is "if it bothers you, do something about it." But no one said anything about whining -- you seem to have just assumed that. If someone is overweight and fine with it, it's none of my business. (If I'm the doctor or responsible for public policy, I should provide appropriate health information, of course.)6 -
Good question. I am not sure that shame has ever motivated me. More like shame and depression was a cycle that fed into each other.
Yes, this is how I am, and why I feel that "shame" tends to be a negative and unhelpful emotion.
I think some people use "shame" in a different way that I understand it, to mean "acknowledging that things should change" or some such, but I don't see that as what we are talking about.
I was partially kicked into gear to get in shape and lose the weight due to an embarrassing photo, but that wasn't "shame," that was wanting to look and feel better plus pride (thinking I could be better, irritation that I'd failed to live up to my own standards), vanity (nothing wrong with that in moderation, IMO), plus (again) embarrassment.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I personaly think the complete and utter lack of shame in certain people is one of the major issues we have in contemporary Western society. It's not everyone but there is certainly a large swath of Western society who couldn't care less about other people, or what other people think of them. If you're (I'm using "you" in the royal sense here) one of them and slowing killing yourself by overeating, drinking too much, or abusing drugs, then stop whining like a child and do something about it.
You are mixing two things. If someone is overweight and whining about it, sure, the response is "if it bothers you, do something about it." But no one said anything about whining -- you seem to have just assumed that. If someone is overweight and fine with it, it's none of my business. (If I'm the doctor or responsible for public policy, I should provide appropriate health information, of course.)
The fat acceptance movement belongs in paragraph 1 and they certainly are whining. The term shame is used in a variety of ways and that group, for the most part, is talking about being "shamed" not necessarily actually feeling "shame." They're celebrating poor choices. I see others in group 2 being drawn to the movement because they need help with their feelings but that's not the group I see advocating and being celebrated. If it was the movement would be focused on self improvement rather than whining about society.1 -
Not everyone who feels "unashamed" about being overweight is whining. In fact, I think people who accept themselves and don't feel shameful and powerless are far less likely to whine.
Personally, I never whined about my weight aloud, because I didn't want anyone to hear me admit I considered it a failure of mine. (Also, because my automatic response to whining, including that tendency in myself, is why don't you do something about it, if it bothers you.)6 -
I don't see the connection with whining.lemurcat12 wrote: »Not everyone who feels "unashamed" about being overweight is whining. In fact, I think people who accept themselves and don't feel shameful and powerless are far less likely to whine.
Personally, I never whined about my weight aloud, because I didn't want anyone to hear me admit I considered it a failure of mine. (Also, because my automatic response to whining, including that tendency in myself, is why don't you do something about it, if it bothers you.)
I may whine inside but there's no way I would whine about it out loud for the same reason.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Not everyone who feels "unashamed" about being overweight is whining. In fact, I think people who accept themselves and don't feel shameful and powerless are far less likely to whine.
Personally, I never whined about my weight aloud, because I didn't want anyone to hear me admit I considered it a failure of mine. (Also, because my automatic response to whining, including that tendency in myself, is why don't you do something about it, if it bothers you.)
I didn't whine either. I agree that not everyone whines. Truly "accepting" oneself takes honestly. Once I was honest with myself I wanted change. Honesty is something else I see missing in FA.
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »The fat acceptance movement belongs in paragraph 1 and they certainly are whining. The term shame is used in a variety of ways and that group, for the most part, is talking about being "shamed" not necessarily actually feeling "shame." They're celebrating poor choices. I see others in group 2 being drawn to the movement because they need help with their feelings but that's not the group I see advocating and being celebrated. If it was the movement would be focused on self improvement rather than whining about society.
I think there is probably a very small minority of people that are actually celebrating being overweight. I'm sure they exist, but I'm guessing this is a pretty small sliver of the population. I think others in the fat acceptance movement are more in favor of just not wanting to be shamed or forced into self-loathing just because of their weight.11 -
toostuborntoquit wrote: »Okay, so I've been reading all the above comments and I would like to add a more scientific point of view. ( I study physics and always loved science, so logical reasoning always works with me)..
This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever seen on MFP.
The difference between guilt and shame is something I'd never considered before, but so crucial. I felt shame for so long, leaving me feeling paralyzed. In fact, one episode in which my sister shamed me via email and copied the entire family came at a dreadful time - I was just ready to do something about losing the weight, but the shame and the feeling of being attacked and my own response to it, meant I did not feel confident enough to tackle my weight for another year.
Now, the guilt I felt that I was not being the role model I wanted to be for my 8 year-old daughter was motivating - I sat myself down, did my research, picked a time when work was quite, DH was away on a 3 week business trip, put together my plan and executed it in peace and with confidence... And the rest is history. 1/3rd body weight gone, size 16 petite to size 0/2 petite, muscles where I never knew I had them, I can RUN.14 -
I think people react differently to shame, but sometimes, people equate holding someone accountable to shaming. For instance, calling BS on someone that says "I only eat 1000 calories per day, but I still gain weight!" is not shaming them.5
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pbprincess wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »For me, I could not take the steps I needed to take and actually consistently stick to anything until I found a way to give up shame and guilt and accept my body for the way it is/was at the time. Acceptance has always done more for my weight and mental health than shame.
This. Exactly this.
Yep...this is exactly what worked for me. When I was overweight and it was mentioned (rarely) i would be defensive and adopt an "I don't give a *kitten* what you think I'm happy..." (I wasn't)2 -
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Shame didn't keep you heavy; that was low self worth.0
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I watched my family live through the cycle of shame about eating, and eating to feel better, and then feeling ashamed again. My mother abused food (and still does) and my father emotionally abused my mother for being heavy and abusing food. It was this awful, terrible cycle and it created - for me- a very negative emotional relationship with food (was bulimic in my teens) and it took me well into my twenties to change that.
Shame is not a self-awareness kind of response to the world around you. It is a feeling that you are being judged for doing something incorrect or improper. There's absolutely zero benefit to that.
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I think it depends on how the shame is done. If it is coming from a mean spirited place then it helps no one. I was shamed by someone after I gave birth to my son. I gained 60 lbs and I was unrecognizable. Some friends came to visit and they have always seen me skinny and not with the post pregnancy weight. She was in total shock that I had put on so much weight. She said I didn't even look like myself. She wasn't being mean she was truly shocked. Nonetheless I felt shamed and it motivated me to lose all the 60 lbs, introduced me to exercise and I still exercise 24yrs later.3
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I've really never found shame motivating, and I have to admit I've rarely or never felt it (that I can recall) in any systematic, persistent way. (I credit a ridiculously happy and secure childhood for this, mostly, BTW.)
Guilt, on the other hand, I used to use quite a lot when I was younger, to prod myself into action concerning things I knew I "should" do.
Now, not so much. For me, one of the blessings of aging (and going through early widowhood, and a seriously life-threatening disease of my own) is that I've actually been able to let go of a lot of negative emotions overall. They're a poor use of my time and energy. Why be unhappy deliberately? (Actually, I think I've let go of a lot of all kinds of optional/unnecessary emotions, only some of which were inherently negative.)
For me, the thing that finally made a switch flip in my head, so that I got serious about losing weight and actually did it, was finally reaching my limit of the health risks and conditions I was willing to take on, just for the sake of staying fat (eating & drinking a lot). That, in itself, seems like a "getting rid of the negative".5 -
I was embarrassed and ashamed over my weight. This was probably the main reason i decided to lose it.5
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I don't think that's the same thing as the "shame" being discussed.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't think that's the same thing as the "shame" being discussed.
Being told i was too fat was also a catalyst to my losing weight. And it wasn't said in a nice way either..0 -
I feel that shame is a useless and hateful tool used usually by people who have no idea what they are doing to the person being shamed - shame brings self loathing , embarrassment, isolation & can lead to self harm & even suicide. Haven't we learned by now that the words we use form actions be they positive or negative.
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