I understand and then I don't (scales and weighing and calorie worrying)
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When you have a large amount of weight to lose, and reduce your calories as drastically as you did, then weighing matters less. A 308 pound man can lose if he estimates food. It is also possible just to cut out stuff like soft drinks or candy and lose without really counting calories.
The challenge is when you are trying to lose a pound a week and you only weigh 150 pounds. Then every gram really does matter.
Being 200 calories "off" a day matters very little when you are 300 pounds. But once you reach the lower range 200 calories extra a day can be the difference in loss and gain.
This^
200 calories off is a huge amount if an individual is down to losing 1/2 pound a week and has only a 250 calorie a day deficit. Plus, perhaps as a contributer to the eyeballing errors, it has been shown that the average calorie counter underestimates their calorie consumption by 170 calories a day.2 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »I'm with you, OP. I made the decision a long time ago not to weigh my food. I'm a pretty good eyeballer and I can eat a serving and not go back for more. I could easily see weighing and logging becoming an unhealthy obsession with me. Now I just try to eat healthy and hit the gym 5 times a week.
However, that's not to say that weighing doesn't work for other people. It does and they should do it if it works for them. It's just not something I want to do.
For curiosity sake, are you at your goal weight? Is your goal weight above what is considered a normal weight for your height or is it within that range?
I second @RosieRose7673 - it seems you are fishing for a certain answer here, expecting that no one can achieve and maintain goal weight/normal weight without measuring. I'm a 35 year old female, 5'7" 142 lbs. Smack in the middle of "normal" bmi, size 6/8 (US). Got there, and have maintained that, for three years (outside of a pregnancy) without weighing or measuring a thing (don't even log much of the time). At this point I continue to lose on average .25 lbs per week without trying. I figure my weight will continue to slowly reduce until I get to what is ideal for my body (even though I feel like I'm well within ideal range at this point). Historically I've found that my losses stop around 138-140 and I stabilize pretty well from there (I had my fourth child 10 months ago, it took about eight months for the last of the baby weight to come off).
Not everyone needs to weigh and measure. I'm not knocking those that do, it's a useful tool and people need to find what works for them. But whether you count calories or not, being at a deficit is all that's required to lose weight. Even the last few lbs.
Keep reading.
People can't take people at face value anymore?
So many inaccurate assumptions...
I mist have posted my response as you were posting yours... It happens.
I just know many people on here don't seem to think it's possible to lose those last few lbs without meticulous logging (read:weighing and measuring). Because of that, your questions sounded "loaded" to me. That's all.
I'm asking this with all due respect, but how do you teach people how to lose the last few pounds without weighing or measuring?2 -
If there is a way around it I would love to know!
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endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »I'm with you, OP. I made the decision a long time ago not to weigh my food. I'm a pretty good eyeballer and I can eat a serving and not go back for more. I could easily see weighing and logging becoming an unhealthy obsession with me. Now I just try to eat healthy and hit the gym 5 times a week.
However, that's not to say that weighing doesn't work for other people. It does and they should do it if it works for them. It's just not something I want to do.
For curiosity sake, are you at your goal weight? Is your goal weight above what is considered a normal weight for your height or is it within that range?
I second @RosieRose7673 - it seems you are fishing for a certain answer here, expecting that no one can achieve and maintain goal weight/normal weight without measuring. I'm a 35 year old female, 5'7" 142 lbs. Smack in the middle of "normal" bmi, size 6/8 (US). Got there, and have maintained that, for three years (outside of a pregnancy) without weighing or measuring a thing (don't even log much of the time). At this point I continue to lose on average .25 lbs per week without trying. I figure my weight will continue to slowly reduce until I get to what is ideal for my body (even though I feel like I'm well within ideal range at this point). Historically I've found that my losses stop around 138-140 and I stabilize pretty well from there (I had my fourth child 10 months ago, it took about eight months for the last of the baby weight to come off).
Not everyone needs to weigh and measure. I'm not knocking those that do, it's a useful tool and people need to find what works for them. But whether you count calories or not, being at a deficit is all that's required to lose weight. Even the last few lbs.
Keep reading.
People can't take people at face value anymore?
So many inaccurate assumptions...
I mist have posted my response as you were posting yours... It happens.
I just know many people on here don't seem to think it's possible to lose those last few lbs without meticulous logging (read:weighing and measuring). Because of that, your questions sounded "loaded" to me. That's all.
Assumptions happen.
Yes they do.... so does ambiguity. <shrug>
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queenliz99 wrote: »
Thanks. I had to raise my daily calorie goal because they were set too low for me to comfortably sustain. . I was on 1200 calories a day and was ravenous at certain times of the day. Now MFP has me on 1500 to lose 1/2 pound a week, and I feel much better. But I still am not losing weight. So I plan to weigh the food on a kitchen scale so I can fiddle with the 100 calories up or down you recommend. I think I will have to up my activity level by 200 calories a day to make any headway because my TDEE is only about 1650 (MFP estimates it at 1750 but on a different site it said 1650 which I think might be more accurate ). My margin for losing, gaining, or stalling is very small.1 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
You're continuing to put words in my mouth and make (incorrect) assumptions. This may be how you approach disagreements or differences of opinion usually, but I find this isn't as productive as really trying to understand what someone means.
Why don't you focus less on me and explain your position that choosing to use a specific tool to meet a goal indicates that one doesn't know what one is doing and that one is afraid to venture beyond what they know?6 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »I'm with you, OP. I made the decision a long time ago not to weigh my food. I'm a pretty good eyeballer and I can eat a serving and not go back for more. I could easily see weighing and logging becoming an unhealthy obsession with me. Now I just try to eat healthy and hit the gym 5 times a week.
However, that's not to say that weighing doesn't work for other people. It does and they should do it if it works for them. It's just not something I want to do.
For curiosity sake, are you at your goal weight? Is your goal weight above what is considered a normal weight for your height or is it within that range?
I second @RosieRose7673 - it seems you are fishing for a certain answer here, expecting that no one can achieve and maintain goal weight/normal weight without measuring. I'm a 35 year old female, 5'7" 142 lbs. Smack in the middle of "normal" bmi, size 6/8 (US). Got there, and have maintained that, for three years (outside of a pregnancy) without weighing or measuring a thing (don't even log much of the time). At this point I continue to lose on average .25 lbs per week without trying. I figure my weight will continue to slowly reduce until I get to what is ideal for my body (even though I feel like I'm well within ideal range at this point). Historically I've found that my losses stop around 138-140 and I stabilize pretty well from there (I had my fourth child 10 months ago, it took about eight months for the last of the baby weight to come off).
Not everyone needs to weigh and measure. I'm not knocking those that do, it's a useful tool and people need to find what works for them. But whether you count calories or not, being at a deficit is all that's required to lose weight. Even the last few lbs.
Keep reading.
People can't take people at face value anymore?
So many inaccurate assumptions...
I mist have posted my response as you were posting yours... It happens.
I just know many people on here don't seem to think it's possible to lose those last few lbs without meticulous logging (read:weighing and measuring). Because of that, your questions sounded "loaded" to me. That's all.
I'm asking this with all due respect, but how do you teach people how to lose the last few pounds without weighing or measuring?
Not sure it is something that can be taught. That's why weighing and measuring is so helpful for so many! I mentioned waaaay upthread, lol, that I focus on eating foods that I find particularly satiating, which causes me to spontaneously eat less. I believe that's a big part of why I don't need to weigh food. I also know that I've never been one to eat out of stress, boredom, or for "comfort"; I seem to have pretty reliable hunger signals (at least when I eat satiating foods). Not everyone has that, or their hunger signals got messed up over years of overeating, yoyo dieting, or bad habits (ie boredom eating). I don't know if you can get those reliable hunger signals back.... Perhaps to a degree.
FWIW, I was never very overweight (at my largest I was merely "overweight" not "obese), and I never yoyo dieted. My weight was put on through moving to a more sedentary lifestyle after college (10 lbs in a year), a motorcycle accident that left me bedridden for about 6 weeks and with limited activity for a month or so after (another 10 lbs in that 3-4 months), and four pregnancies (gained 50 lbs with each, but lost the baby weight in between each one). I do think how and why one gained weight factors in to whether or not they have to weigh and measure in order to lose... But that's just my very unscientific, personal opinion, that is probably not even correct
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Some people can save money without a budget... maybe they don't like spending money unnecessarily, maybe they make more money than others, maybe they have a second job.
When you have a monetary debt that you want to reduce, you might use a budget. Most people would say this is smart and responsible. Making 'round about' estimates is not enough because money is already tight for some people. They record everything to the cent because they want to be sure, Other people however might just cut back on overall spending, maybe get a second job, or maybe they make more money in the first place so saving would appear easier. However if estimating is not working, and spending is getting out of hand then a tighter budget might be in order. Having a budget is a tool.
Good and sensible post, Etsar. However, I notice that you omitted (or unaware of) the possibility that some people maybe are naturally good at budgeting in the first place; or they have developed the skill at some point. Or some other skills that you and I do not know about.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »I'm with you, OP. I made the decision a long time ago not to weigh my food. I'm a pretty good eyeballer and I can eat a serving and not go back for more. I could easily see weighing and logging becoming an unhealthy obsession with me. Now I just try to eat healthy and hit the gym 5 times a week.
However, that's not to say that weighing doesn't work for other people. It does and they should do it if it works for them. It's just not something I want to do.
For curiosity sake, are you at your goal weight? Is your goal weight above what is considered a normal weight for your height or is it within that range?
I second @RosieRose7673 - it seems you are fishing for a certain answer here, expecting that no one can achieve and maintain goal weight/normal weight without measuring. I'm a 35 year old female, 5'7" 142 lbs. Smack in the middle of "normal" bmi, size 6/8 (US). Got there, and have maintained that, for three years (outside of a pregnancy) without weighing or measuring a thing (don't even log much of the time). At this point I continue to lose on average .25 lbs per week without trying. I figure my weight will continue to slowly reduce until I get to what is ideal for my body (even though I feel like I'm well within ideal range at this point). Historically I've found that my losses stop around 138-140 and I stabilize pretty well from there (I had my fourth child 10 months ago, it took about eight months for the last of the baby weight to come off).
Not everyone needs to weigh and measure. I'm not knocking those that do, it's a useful tool and people need to find what works for them. But whether you count calories or not, being at a deficit is all that's required to lose weight. Even the last few lbs.
Keep reading.
People can't take people at face value anymore?
So many inaccurate assumptions...
I mist have posted my response as you were posting yours... It happens.
I just know many people on here don't seem to think it's possible to lose those last few lbs without meticulous logging (read:weighing and measuring). Because of that, your questions sounded "loaded" to me. That's all.
I'm asking this with all due respect, but how do you teach people how to lose the last few pounds without weighing or measuring?
Not sure it is something that can be taught. That's why weighing and measuring is so helpful for so many! I mentioned waaaay upthread, lol, that I focus on eating foods that I find particularly satiating, which causes me to spontaneously eat less. I believe that's a big part of why I don't need to weigh food. I also know that I've never been one to eat out of stress, boredom, or for "comfort"; I seem to have pretty reliable hunger signals (at least when I eat satiating foods). Not everyone has that, or their hunger signals got messed up over years of overeating, yoyo dieting, or bad habits (ie boredom eating). I don't know if you can get those reliable hunger signals back.... Perhaps to a degree.
FWIW, I was never very overweight (at my largest I was merely "overweight" not "obese), and I never yoyo dieted. My weight was put on through moving to a more sedentary lifestyle after college (10 lbs in a year), a motorcycle accident that left me bedridden for about 6 weeks and with limited activity for a month or so after (another 10 lbs in that 3-4 months), and four pregnancies (gained 50 lbs with each, but lost the baby weight in between each one). I do think how and why one gained weight factors in to whether or not they have to weigh and measure in order to lose... But that's just my very unscientific, personal opinion, that is probably not even correct
I understand. My body self regulated for many years naturally. Now it has busted and wants me to gain weight. I hope I can get it back into mindfulness and intuitive eating like Big Daddy is hoping he will one day be able to do as well. I hate weighing and measuring. But my body is rebelling and wants to gain weight so I must find ways to stop it.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
You're continuing to put words in my mouth and make (incorrect) assumptions. This may be how you approach disagreements or differences of opinion usually, but I find this isn't as productive as really trying to understand what someone means.
Why don't you focus less on me and explain your position that choosing to use a specific tool to meet a goal indicates that one doesn't know what one is doing and that one is afraid to venture beyond what they know?
OK, I did assume that you probably differ with me, which you had been doing along. Let's move on between us.0 -
sashayoung72 wrote: »I just had this weighing discussion with my sister, she had been eyeballing her coffee creamer and when she weighed it again after several months, she realized she had gradually eyeballed her way up to 2 extra servings per time, that's 70 extra calories 3 times a day, a 210 calories oops. I like to weigh in my kitchen and am ok with skipping it when i'm out. I "eyeball" my portion and then I weigh, sometimes i'm like spot on, others I must have the HUNGRY EYES cause i'm ounces off and glad I did weigh it out. I've been doing this over 500 days and the weighing is such a habit now, I really don't think about it, just weigh and go.
I like HUNGRY EYES--it made me laugh. Thanks for the chuckle.1 -
The kitchen scale is a tool. I equate the kitchen scale to my mixing bowl, knife set, and other kitchen utensils.
There are many people within the normal weight range who rely on intuitive eating to maintain their weight. I am not one of those people, yet. Intuitive eating has not worked for me in the past.
It is quite empowering, in fact, to understand the math of calories in/ calories out, and how much I can eat in a given day/week/month and still lose weight.
Part of the weight loss struggle is the mental aspect. There is a whole section on this website dedicated to "motivation & support". Losing weight at the expected rate can be very motivating. On the flip side, not losing weight when you think you're doing everything right can be very discouraging. Using a kitchen scale and logging can take some of the guess work away. Knowing that I'm losing "on par" with what I should be helps me stay focused. When people don't know why they're not losing weight, their mind starts to wander to crazy theories such as starvation mode, set-weight, slow metabolism, or that they're simply broken and destined to be overweight.
I did take a few steps to make sure the way I am using the scale is sustainable and non-restrictive. I don't weigh most vegetables or pre-packaged food. I don't bring the scale with me if I'm eating out. In fact, most posters are quite content with how the scale fits into their daily lives. They report less anxiety and increased accuracy when tracking their weight loss.
The language that the OP was using - for example - asking if people really want to be "tied to the kitchen scale" - implies more than what the OP wants to let on. If one is in a position of wanting to understand, or create a dialogue, you need to let go of the negative vocabulary. Then, people won't respond to you in a defensive way.
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endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.2 -
None of us "wants" to be tied to a scale. But I lost my way on my own so I need the scale to hopefully get me back on track.3
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I'm going to try weighing food carefully and see if my plateau breaks!2
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »I'm with you, OP. I made the decision a long time ago not to weigh my food. I'm a pretty good eyeballer and I can eat a serving and not go back for more. I could easily see weighing and logging becoming an unhealthy obsession with me. Now I just try to eat healthy and hit the gym 5 times a week.
However, that's not to say that weighing doesn't work for other people. It does and they should do it if it works for them. It's just not something I want to do.
For curiosity sake, are you at your goal weight? Is your goal weight above what is considered a normal weight for your height or is it within that range?
I second @RosieRose7673 - it seems you are fishing for a certain answer here, expecting that no one can achieve and maintain goal weight/normal weight without measuring. I'm a 35 year old female, 5'7" 142 lbs. Smack in the middle of "normal" bmi, size 6/8 (US). Got there, and have maintained that, for three years (outside of a pregnancy) without weighing or measuring a thing (don't even log much of the time). At this point I continue to lose on average .25 lbs per week without trying. I figure my weight will continue to slowly reduce until I get to what is ideal for my body (even though I feel like I'm well within ideal range at this point). Historically I've found that my losses stop around 138-140 and I stabilize pretty well from there (I had my fourth child 10 months ago, it took about eight months for the last of the baby weight to come off).
Not everyone needs to weigh and measure. I'm not knocking those that do, it's a useful tool and people need to find what works for them. But whether you count calories or not, being at a deficit is all that's required to lose weight. Even the last few lbs.
Keep reading.
People can't take people at face value anymore?
So many inaccurate assumptions...
I mist have posted my response as you were posting yours... It happens.
I just know many people on here don't seem to think it's possible to lose those last few lbs without meticulous logging (read:weighing and measuring). Because of that, your questions sounded "loaded" to me. That's all.
I'm asking this with all due respect, but how do you teach people how to lose the last few pounds without weighing or measuring?
Not sure it is something that can be taught. That's why weighing and measuring is so helpful for so many! I mentioned waaaay upthread, lol, that I focus on eating foods that I find particularly satiating, which causes me to spontaneously eat less. I believe that's a big part of why I don't need to weigh food. I also know that I've never been one to eat out of stress, boredom, or for "comfort"; I seem to have pretty reliable hunger signals (at least when I eat satiating foods). Not everyone has that, or their hunger signals got messed up over years of overeating, yoyo dieting, or bad habits (ie boredom eating). I don't know if you can get those reliable hunger signals back.... Perhaps to a degree.
FWIW, I was never very overweight (at my largest I was merely "overweight" not "obese), and I never yoyo dieted. My weight was put on through moving to a more sedentary lifestyle after college (10 lbs in a year), a motorcycle accident that left me bedridden for about 6 weeks and with limited activity for a month or so after (another 10 lbs in that 3-4 months), and four pregnancies (gained 50 lbs with each, but lost the baby weight in between each one). I do think how and why one gained weight factors in to whether or not they have to weigh and measure in order to lose... But that's just my very unscientific, personal opinion, that is probably not even correct
I understand. My body self regulated for many years naturally. Now it has busted and wants me to gain weight. I hope I can get it back into mindfulness and intuitive eating like Big Daddy is hoping he will one day be able to do as well. I hate weighing and measuring. But my body is rebelling and wants to gain weight so I must find ways to stop it.
I would like to point out that tflag is 35, and you are 55. That can make a big difference right there. How many people have posted on how easy it used to be to lose or maintain weight when they were younger. All of a sudden, it doesn't work anymore---for quite a few people. I will hope that she continues to have success, but that's why it's impossible to replicate what she's doing---as she said herself, she doesn't know why it works for her.1 -
Good for you OP, BUT I will do what I want!!
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endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
Your analogies are ridiculous and completely off-base. In the driving one, it's more like this: I prefer to drive smaller cars because I don't have great spacial awareness. It takes me multiple tries to park a big truck, and a lot more concentration for me to stay in my lane. In a small car, I do these things easily and without much thought. However, I've known people who prefer driving SUVs or trucks because they're higher up and have more visibility, which makes driving less stressful and easier for them. Neither of us are crashing. Neither of us are "rudimentary." We're using different tools.11
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