FDA approves weight loss stomach pump device
Replies
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
It's silly because it makes no sense to say that if you retain knowledge learned you never needed to learn it in the first place.
Which is not what I said.
What I'm saying is that if a person is incapable of learning how to eat properly and implement what they've learned, the results of using the pump will not last. However, if they are capable of learning how to eat properly and implement what they've learned they can do so without using the pump.
How do you know? From the moment kids step one foot into a classroom on their first day of school it's widely recognized that everyone learns VERY differently - yes, generally referring to academics in childhood and young adulthood, but it absolutely extends into other areas of life. Who are you to decide for another person how they learn best? Maybe this device is what makes it stick for some people after years of trying many other methods. I highly doubt that there is anyone out there who right out of the box goes "you know what? I've been overweight all my life, I've got to lose 75lbs, I think instead of even TRYING to go for a walk or to cut my calories I'm going to go out and get that thing where I have to barf through a tube for the rest of my life." And I certainly hope that for the few who do have that mindset that they have a responsible doctor who won't let them do it. The intention is for this device to be used by people who CAN'T learn other ways. Says so right on the FDA approval - it's intended for individuals "who have failed to achieve and maintain weight loss through non-surgical weight-loss therapy."
The bolded illustrates my point that those who use this device will be very likely to gain the weight back. They have proven that they are either a) unable or b) unwilling to eat in such a way as to manage their weight.
Using a device to manipulate CI while leaving real intake unchecked may result in weight loss during use but when the device is gone and the same eating patterns continue, the weight will return.
Guess what? EVERYONE who loses weight is very likely to gain the weight back. Various studies have shown up to 97% of people who have lost significant amounts of weight gain it all back or more within 3 years. Regardless of how the weight is lost to begin with.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.0 -
Thing to consider: is the existence of this device a good thing? Weight loss therapy is required before you qualify for the device, so will people go to their docs saying they want the pump, spend a couple of months learning about nutrition, and realize they don't actually need the device's help? This might be the way they get exposed to proper information about diet and exercise.1
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »So people who lack the will power to cut down their calories, they are giving them an easy way out that will lead to an eat disorder. 'Merica! Land of the Lazy Way Out!
Again, I'm not trying to defend this device, but this doesn't look like an easy way out. I love to eat, and I eat too much, but I can't imagine even considering this. I think the majority of obese people would balk at this, but I could be wrong.
Yeah no, I know tons of people who would look at this like "Omg I can eat whatever I want and not watch how much I eat" (most of those idiots in my extended family always looking for an easy way out) and actually get this surgery. Never change their eating habits, get it removed and then gain all the weight back. Unlike the other weigh loss surgeries that do things like shrink the stomach so you feel fuller quicker so you learn to eat smaller sizes, this is letting you eat whatever you want and just pumping it out, like bulimia. This is an easy way to bulimia. Binge eating then throwing it back up without the throwing up part. I'm surprised an American didn't think of this.
I can actually see a future where it's a commonly accepted weight loss method. I think a LOT of people would be drawn to a method of losing weight that allows them to eat and drink whatever they want.
And that would be bad?
Yes, I think it would be bad. I think our goal should more often be education, and teaching people how to eat towards a reasonable calorie goal (while maintaining nutritional goals).6 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »So people who lack the will power to cut down their calories, they are giving them an easy way out that will lead to an eat disorder. 'Merica! Land of the Lazy Way Out!
Again, I'm not trying to defend this device, but this doesn't look like an easy way out. I love to eat, and I eat too much, but I can't imagine even considering this. I think the majority of obese people would balk at this, but I could be wrong.
Yeah no, I know tons of people who would look at this like "Omg I can eat whatever I want and not watch how much I eat" (most of those idiots in my extended family always looking for an easy way out) and actually get this surgery. Never change their eating habits, get it removed and then gain all the weight back. Unlike the other weigh loss surgeries that do things like shrink the stomach so you feel fuller quicker so you learn to eat smaller sizes, this is letting you eat whatever you want and just pumping it out, like bulimia. This is an easy way to bulimia. Binge eating then throwing it back up without the throwing up part. I'm surprised an American didn't think of this.
I can actually see a future where it's a commonly accepted weight loss method. I think a LOT of people would be drawn to a method of losing weight that allows them to eat and drink whatever they want.
And that would be bad?
It would be incredibly wasteful.2 -
eveandqsmom wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »So people who lack the will power to cut down their calories, they are giving them an easy way out that will lead to an eat disorder. 'Merica! Land of the Lazy Way Out!
Again, I'm not trying to defend this device, but this doesn't look like an easy way out. I love to eat, and I eat too much, but I can't imagine even considering this. I think the majority of obese people would balk at this, but I could be wrong.
Yeah no, I know tons of people who would look at this like "Omg I can eat whatever I want and not watch how much I eat" (most of those idiots in my extended family always looking for an easy way out) and actually get this surgery. Never change their eating habits, get it removed and then gain all the weight back. Unlike the other weigh loss surgeries that do things like shrink the stomach so you feel fuller quicker so you learn to eat smaller sizes, this is letting you eat whatever you want and just pumping it out, like bulimia. This is an easy way to bulimia. Binge eating then throwing it back up without the throwing up part. I'm surprised an American didn't think of this.
I can actually see a future where it's a commonly accepted weight loss method. I think a LOT of people would be drawn to a method of losing weight that allows them to eat and drink whatever they want.
You can eat and drink whatever you want now if you just learn to eat it in smaller servings and not binge the bad stuff.
Re-word to the obvious as much of whatever you want.
But they would never keep weight off that way. The device has to come out eventually, they can't keep it forever. Once it's out they would eat all it back plus more.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »So people who lack the will power to cut down their calories, they are giving them an easy way out that will lead to an eat disorder. 'Merica! Land of the Lazy Way Out!
Again, I'm not trying to defend this device, but this doesn't look like an easy way out. I love to eat, and I eat too much, but I can't imagine even considering this. I think the majority of obese people would balk at this, but I could be wrong.
Yeah no, I know tons of people who would look at this like "Omg I can eat whatever I want and not watch how much I eat" (most of those idiots in my extended family always looking for an easy way out) and actually get this surgery. Never change their eating habits, get it removed and then gain all the weight back. Unlike the other weigh loss surgeries that do things like shrink the stomach so you feel fuller quicker so you learn to eat smaller sizes, this is letting you eat whatever you want and just pumping it out, like bulimia. This is an easy way to bulimia. Binge eating then throwing it back up without the throwing up part. I'm surprised an American didn't think of this.
I can actually see a future where it's a commonly accepted weight loss method. I think a LOT of people would be drawn to a method of losing weight that allows them to eat and drink whatever they want.
And that would be bad?
Yes, I think it would be bad. I think our goal should more often be education, and teaching people how to eat towards a reasonable calorie goal (while maintaining nutritional goals).
this.4 -
This reminds me of the old SNL skit about the Romans and the vomitorium.
People need to take some personal responsibility about their health and not look for quick fixes or questionable devices to allow gluttony. It is just bizarre to me that this would even be an option.
No, just no!6 -
SassyMommasaurus wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »SassyMommasaurus wrote: »So people who lack the will power to cut down their calories, they are giving them an easy way out that will lead to an eat disorder. 'Merica! Land of the Lazy Way Out!
Again, I'm not trying to defend this device, but this doesn't look like an easy way out. I love to eat, and I eat too much, but I can't imagine even considering this. I think the majority of obese people would balk at this, but I could be wrong.
Yeah no, I know tons of people who would look at this like "Omg I can eat whatever I want and not watch how much I eat" (most of those idiots in my extended family always looking for an easy way out) and actually get this surgery. Never change their eating habits, get it removed and then gain all the weight back. Unlike the other weigh loss surgeries that do things like shrink the stomach so you feel fuller quicker so you learn to eat smaller sizes, this is letting you eat whatever you want and just pumping it out, like bulimia. This is an easy way to bulimia. Binge eating then throwing it back up without the throwing up part. I'm surprised an American didn't think of this.
I can actually see a future where it's a commonly accepted weight loss method. I think a LOT of people would be drawn to a method of losing weight that allows them to eat and drink whatever they want.
You can eat and drink whatever you want now if you just learn to eat it in smaller servings and not binge the bad stuff.
Re-word to the obvious as much of whatever you want.
But they would never keep weight off that way. The device has to come out eventually, they can't keep it forever. Once it's out they would eat all it back plus more.
I'm sure they would believe that they would be better if they lost the weight first...just like they do know with all the magic potions and detoxes, and pills...the diet industry is not the giant that it is because overweight people don't want a quick easy fix.1 -
mskessler89 wrote: »Thing to consider: is the existence of this device a good thing? Weight loss therapy is required before you qualify for the device, so will people go to their docs saying they want the pump, spend a couple of months learning about nutrition, and realize they don't actually need the device's help? This might be the way they get exposed to proper information about diet and exercise.
I know a lot of people who would fake that *kitten* as long as they had to just to get the pump. I'd hope most people would learn how to do it the right way with the weigh loss therapy but there will still be a lot of people who just fake their way through it, or there will be shifty doctors that will do it without making the patients do the therapy, because you know, more money in the surgery.2 -
This may be as unscientific as it comes. But here we go anyway. My Mom always told me when I was younger that when you overeat you stretch out your stomach (the actual organ, not your midsection) and that after repeated over stretching, your stomach would hang there like some sort of balloon you tried to blow up too many times, and that in order to feel full, you would now require more food to fill your stomach.
So I've always thought that aside from all the mental/hormonal/etc issues that we encounter losing weight, there's a bit of a mechanical one as well. Gastric sleeves, etc, are intended to reduce the size of the stomach so we feel fuller on less food. I've kind of felt like that's one of your 'goals' of weight loss, is to eat normal sized/smaller portions to allow your stomach to retract from it's deflated balloon state into a more normal size, so you are comfortably full with normal sized portions, and don't require Cheesecake Factory sized portions to feel full.
If this device allows you to continue to overeat, and then just drain out 30% of what you consumed, doesn't this completely remove any retraction of the stomach that may normally occur with weight loss efforts? So instead of becoming accustomed to normal sized portions, you will always feel the need to eat huge portions, your stomach will never shrink back, and the physical changes needed to maintain the weight loss will never occur.
I get that at the high end of BMI levels, you start running into other problems that may make this less of a concern, such as decreased mobility (you end up too fat to walk or do much activity making it harder to lose weight). But in a normal 'I want to lose weight' scenario, this just doesn't seem to address any of the underlying problems associated with weight gain/loss.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"10 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?0 -
It's intermission time, once again. Popcorn anyone, I'm buying!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y 7 -
queenliz99 wrote: »It's intermission time, once again. Popcorn anyone, I'm buying!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
Surprisingly apropos!
"I could be arguing in my spare time!"1 -
Double post.0
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queenliz99 wrote: »It's intermission time, once again. Popcorn anyone, I'm buying!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
Surprisingly apropos!
"I could be arguing in my spare time!"
LOL0 -
Aschindler412 wrote: »This may be as unscientific as it comes. But here we go anyway. My Mom always told me when I was younger that when you overeat you stretch out your stomach (the actual organ, not your midsection) and that after repeated over stretching, your stomach would hang there like some sort of balloon you tried to blow up too many times, and that in order to feel full, you would now require more food to fill your stomach.
So I've always thought that aside from all the mental/hormonal/etc issues that we encounter losing weight, there's a bit of a mechanical one as well. Gastric sleeves, etc, are intended to reduce the size of the stomach so we feel fuller on less food. I've kind of felt like that's one of your 'goals' of weight loss, is to eat normal sized/smaller portions to allow your stomach to retract from it's deflated balloon state into a more normal size, so you are comfortably full with normal sized portions, and don't require Cheesecake Factory sized portions to feel full.
If this device allows you to continue to overeat, and then just drain out 30% of what you consumed, doesn't this completely remove any retraction of the stomach that may normally occur with weight loss efforts? So instead of becoming accustomed to normal sized portions, you will always feel the need to eat huge portions, your stomach will never shrink back, and the physical changes needed to maintain the weight loss will never occur.
I get that at the high end of BMI levels, you start running into other problems that may make this less of a concern, such as decreased mobility (you end up too fat to walk or do much activity making it harder to lose weight). But in a normal 'I want to lose weight' scenario, this just doesn't seem to address any of the underlying problems associated with weight gain/loss.
The idea of stretching/shrinking of the stomach is actually just a myth.1 -
queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »It's intermission time, once again. Popcorn anyone, I'm buying!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
Surprisingly apropos!
"I could be arguing in my spare time!"
LOL
That whole sketch was MFP in a nutshell!3 -
queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »It's intermission time, once again. Popcorn anyone, I'm buying!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
Surprisingly apropos!
"I could be arguing in my spare time!"
LOL
That whole sketch was MFP in a nutshell!
I always think of this Monty Python skit when I see threads like this
3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.3 -
afatpersonwholikesfood wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing. From the website: Many patients choose to keep the AspireAssist in place to ensure that they maintain their weight loss...if the AspireAssist is needed to maintain weight loss, it is likely weight regain will occur if therapy is stopped.
It works perfectly!!!
Given the number of people that fail at every other method of weight loss, would this be a horrible thing?
A lifetime of medically assisted binge/purging? Sure could.
If it got them to a healthy weight and kept them there would it be an inherently horrible thing?
Kinda like an e-cigarette...letting people continue with their addiction and fork over their money forever rather than face the music and quit.
I said I didn't want to derail this thread, but I came back and saw the e-cig comments, so I had to get back on my soap box.
Someone mentioned chemicals and e-cigs still being an unknown.
Your basic liquid contains 2-3 ingredients. Propylene glycol (used in nebulizers, inhalers, toothpaste, shampoo, food, and the current FDA approved nicotine replacement products), vegetable glycerin (also used in food), and the same pharmaceutical grade nicotine found in FDA approved replacement products. Any flavors, which are optional, are FDA approved for food. Not much unknown about ANY of these chemicals. You can't get through every day life without exposure to PG or flavorings for the most part, whether you vape or not.
On top of that, e-cigs are not that new. They started 10 years or so ago in China and have grown exponentially since then. Smoking rates are dropping as well. No proof that it's from e-cigs, but there's a correlation. Millions of people around the world have used an e-cig.
Europe concluded they are 95% safer than regular cigarettes. The US government seems to be trying to protect Big Tobacco and pharma interests. Come 2018, thanks to new FDA regulations, the only devices on the market are going to come from Big Tobacco. Are the new regulations really some attempt to protect public health from an unknown entity that the FDA has been dealing with for years? Hmmm.
And yeah, I use an e-cig. I used to smoke 2.5 packs per day. 5 years without smoking, and I have dropped my nicotine to almost pointlessly low levels. I've had chest x-rays, and my lungs have been listened to multiple times. My doctor has me listed as a non-smoker and says my lungs are excellent. I no longer have a smoker's cough or constant sinus infections. Good enough for me.
Yes, those ingredients are fine to eat. That says nothing about being fine to breathe. Regularly breathing flour (and any number of other edible small particles or vapors) damages the lungs over time. This is a known workplace hazard. There are possible risks to long-term inhalation of the FDA-approved edible flavoring agent diacetyl (bronchiolitis obliterans). It's one of the open challenges to e-cig and vaping safety - is it the causative agent for the disease (there's an association but insufficient information to determine causation) and if so, is it being delivered to the lungs in such a way that bronchiolitis obliterans is a risk? Like many things, the dose and, I'll add, delivery mechanism make the poison. Even if diacetyl is a hazardous inhalant, there may still be minimal risk with e-cigs and vaping. It may very well be that there's not enough of a concentration or it needs to be inhaled 8 hrs a day to be an issue, etc. But, the studies are not yet complete. Not even preliminary results have been reported as far as I know.
Part of the problem with safety testing e-cigs is that each brand and type of flavoring contains different ingredients, and it is taking time to determine which of them is apparently safe in the doses received and with this type of delivery - because this is completely unknown for many of them. The main carrier ingredients have been cleared with regards to short term safety, for the most part (some are still being studied).
Anywho, this isn't intended to be some kind of anti-vaping or anti-e-cig message, but claiming they're known to be safe is not correct regardless of 10 years use thus far. Why not just say there's not been any apparent health risk in 10 years of use and clinical studies are still ongoing?
The point actually makes the earlier post more relevant to the thread, IMO. It's similar to how the longer term effects of the device we're discussing aren't known - notice how speculation about that also tends to the negative, although the device appears to be safe on the surface from a physical standpoint (refering to the long-term safety of similar devices)?
6 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Doesn't do you any good if you're in a coffin when they hand the test out.
Look, we could do this forever. The point is, different people have different priorities. This pump probably isn't a viable choice for most people - just like gastric bypass, just like lap band, just like the balloon, just like phentermine, just like any other medical weight-loss intervention. But when you pass the tipping point where in the short term getting the weight off is more important than learning healthy habits and you've exhausted all of your other efforts and options, that's where these sorts of drastic measures are not just useful, but necessary. You can deal with the healthy habits along the way - we should all note that while I'm sure there will be those who don't take it seriously, the FDA does state that behavioral therapies while under treatment with this device are necessary. Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.1 -
I can see this being used as a step before weight loss surgery. It would be better to try something like this in tandem with therapy before going straight to a risky and invasive and much more permanent surgery.
To me, the idea that some people will abuse its purpose doesn't matter. People abuse prescription pain killers all the time but they still have their place for those who qualify for their usage.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Doesn't do you any good if you're in a coffin when they hand the test out.
I highly doubt that this will be primarily used as a life saving procedure to bring back the morbidly obese from their death beds. In fact, I would argue that if a person doesn't have enough time left to implement a healthy diet, they likely don't have time for the pump to work either.Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.
If I don't have the right to offer my opinion that it might not be right to use a stomach pump as a weight loss tool then what are we here for? Delete the thread, mods, this isn't America anymore. My right to speak my mind is gone.3 -
Sorry but US is screwed up...
Read the article? Nah, but why pass up a chance to bash the US?The product was developed by Aspire Bariatrics of King of Prussia, Pa., and is currently available in Europe, according to the company.
It's already been approved and available in Europe before the US. And we know Europeans are superior to the US, so I guess it's not that screwed up, is it?4 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Doesn't do you any good if you're in a coffin when they hand the test out.
I highly doubt that this will be primarily used as a life saving procedure to bring back the morbidly obese from their death beds. In fact, I would argue that if a person doesn't have enough time left to implement a healthy diet, they likely don't have time for the pump to work either.Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.
If I don't have the right to offer my opinion that it might not be right to use a stomach pump as a weight loss tool then what are we here for? Delete the thread, mods, this isn't America anymore. My right to speak my mind is gone.
Oh for crying out loud. We're seriously busting out free speech comments now? Okee dokee.
No one ever said you couldn't voice your opinion on the product, and you beyond question have every right to have an opinion regarding how YOU believe is the best way for YOU to lose weight and to voice that opinion.
What you don't have is the understanding of every individual person's situation regarding their weight and the issues and nuances that are a part of someone else's journey. You do not have the credibility to speak to whether an FDA-approved medical device is appropriate for someone else. I doubt you'd have the nerve to try to judge whether someone needs a heart transplant or thyroid medication or chemotherapy, so why do you think you have the requisite knowledge to decide whether anyone else needs this particular medical intervention vs. "learning on their own" how to deal with their medical condition? Further, you do not have the right to judge someone else's effort or motivation or commitment to their health unless you have intimate knowledge of their attitudes and habits. You want to tell me whether you think this device could be a good choice for your best friend based upon your extensive knowledge of their previous attempts and struggles? Please do. The general public? Take a seat, please.1 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Doesn't do you any good if you're in a coffin when they hand the test out.
I highly doubt that this will be primarily used as a life saving procedure to bring back the morbidly obese from their death beds. In fact, I would argue that if a person doesn't have enough time left to implement a healthy diet, they likely don't have time for the pump to work either.Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.
If I don't have the right to offer my opinion that it might not be right to use a stomach pump as a weight loss tool then what are we here for? Delete the thread, mods, this isn't America anymore. My right to speak my mind is gone.
Oh for crying out loud. We're seriously busting out free speech comments now? Okee dokee.
No one ever said you couldn't voice your opinion on the product, and you beyond question have every right to have an opinion regarding how YOU believe is the best way for YOU to lose weight and to voice that opinion.
Oh, I know I have every right. It just seemed like you forgot.Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Doesn't do you any good if you're in a coffin when they hand the test out.
I highly doubt that this will be primarily used as a life saving procedure to bring back the morbidly obese from their death beds. In fact, I would argue that if a person doesn't have enough time left to implement a healthy diet, they likely don't have time for the pump to work either.Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.
If I don't have the right to offer my opinion that it might not be right to use a stomach pump as a weight loss tool then what are we here for? Delete the thread, mods, this isn't America anymore. My right to speak my mind is gone.
Oh for crying out loud. We're seriously busting out free speech comments now? Okee dokee.
No one ever said you couldn't voice your opinion on the product, and you beyond question have every right to have an opinion regarding how YOU believe is the best way for YOU to lose weight and to voice that opinion.
Oh, I know I have every right. It just seemed like you forgot.Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.
You conveniently forgot to bold "for someone else."0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Doesn't do you any good if you're in a coffin when they hand the test out.
I highly doubt that this will be primarily used as a life saving procedure to bring back the morbidly obese from their death beds. In fact, I would argue that if a person doesn't have enough time left to implement a healthy diet, they likely don't have time for the pump to work either.Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Who said there's no reason for people to be obese?
All I said was that giving people the tools they need to reduce their intake of food would be far superior and more healthy/safe than continuing to allow uncontrolled intake while removing food from the stomach.
The stomach pump approach, if continued long term, runs a high risk of causing deficiencies since fast digesting carbs will be the majority of what remains in the body while things like protein and fat (which is necessarily for vitamin absorption and a host of other things) will be flushed out.
And once the pump is no longer in use, what keeps the patient from regaining the weight? And if they've learned to eat less in the process so that they can keep the weight off, doesn't that show that they didn't really need the pump to begin with?
That last sentence is beyond silly. The same could be said of any weight loss tool.
How is it silly? If they're able to control their intake, they don't need the pump. If not, the effects won't last.
And yes, it can be said about lipo, Jenny Craig, weight loss shakes and a host of other things. That doesn't invalidate the statement.
Also including calorie counting and MFP types of sites. I'm not saying I am for this device, but ALL weight loss methods are subject to this.
MFP is a counting tool. I've had success not due to MFP but due to my learning how to eat properly.
Whether I write down what I've eaten, track it on MFP or have a good enough memory to track my intake mentally makes no difference.
Tracking food intake to ensure proper nutrition =/= a gimmick product/procedure. I track my intake because I know what/how much I need to eat to reach my goals, not because I depend on MFP or other sites to lose weight. I use MFP to supplement my memory.
Stomach pumps, Jenny Craig, lipo...they don't teach me how much protein I need or how to ensure I get it. Therefore, once the program is over or the product runs out, the results don't last.
Because I do know how much protein I need, how much fat, how much fiber and how many calories, I can continue to enjoy success no matter what method I use to measure my intake.
Big difference. Really big. Yuuuuuge.
If MFP taught you how much protein you need, does that mean you eat the amount of protein suggested by the site without adjustment?
Did you read what I said? I said that MFP is only a counting tool for me. I never said that it taught me anything.
And no, as I'm a heavy lifter currently eating in a deficit, I eat a LOT more protein than MFP suggests. I also don't follow MFP's calorie recommendations as I've learned for myself what my actual intake should be.
So MFP what makes MFP any better than the pump you also think teaches nothing? I'm just assuming you think it is better since you are here often.
Again...pay attention this time...
MFP is not the mechanism by which I have lost weight. Educating myself about my nutritional needs and eating accordingly to those needs (which include a caloric deficit) is the mechanism by which I have lost weight.
That education has come from a myriad of sources.
I track my food on MFP for no other reason than that it's simpler than carrying around a notepad with my food log on it. If my memory was reliable enough I would track my food mentally but it's not.
MFP is no different than the food scale I use to weigh my food. One measures the food, the other tracks it. But I control the intake.
The pump, on the other hand, is a device which synthetically alters the amount of Calories In by removing contents from the stomach, thus (likely) enforcing a deficit even when actual intake would have resulted in a surplus. This is more likely to reinforce bad eating habits as weight loss will occur even though actions of the patient would otherwise result in weight maintenance/gain.
Asking "Why is MFP better than the pump?" is like asking "why is using a calculator better than copying the answers out of the answer key?"
It's not better if your goal is to learn how to get to the answer. It's unfathomably better if your actual life depends on getting the answer right, regardless of how you get there, and despite several efforts you just can't figure out the calculator. Do you keep banging on the calculator until you die, or do you flip to the back of the book and worry about the rest later?
Until it's time for the test (taking out the pump) and you still don't know how to work the equation.
Just because this device is something that you believe is not the right path to take does not give you the right or the credibility to state that it might not be right for someone else.
If I don't have the right to offer my opinion that it might not be right to use a stomach pump as a weight loss tool then what are we here for? Delete the thread, mods, this isn't America anymore. My right to speak my mind is gone.
Oh for crying out loud. We're seriously busting out free speech comments now? Okee dokee.
No one ever said you couldn't voice your opinion on the product, and you beyond question have every right to have an opinion regarding how YOU believe is the best way for YOU to lose weight and to voice that opinion.
What you don't have is the understanding of every individual person's situation regarding their weight and the issues and nuances that are a part of someone else's journey. You do not have the credibility to speak to whether an FDA-approved medical device is appropriate for someone else. I doubt you'd have the nerve to try to judge whether someone needs a heart transplant or thyroid medication or chemotherapy, so why do you think you have the requisite knowledge to decide whether anyone else needs this particular medical intervention vs. "learning on their own" how to deal with their medical condition? Further, you do not have the right to judge someone else's effort or motivation or commitment to their health unless you have intimate knowledge of their attitudes and habits. You want to tell me whether you think this device could be a good choice for your best friend based upon your extensive knowledge of their previous attempts and struggles? Please do. The general public? Take a seat, please.
It's OK. Carlos's opinion won't be taken into consideration during anyone's medical consultation.
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