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Hot topics! Sugar in fruit
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WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
The white rice is going to kill you though, and watch out for the hidden sugar in sushi rice. You may also want to read the ingredients lists on the snacks.
Cutting sugar is very easy in the states.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
But, and I'll say it again, you did not JUST cut out sugar. You cut out sugar, fat and salt. So, again, why single out sugar?
No one ever seems to address this point. @lemurcat12 makes it quite often. Strange...2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people fail to do what seems to me common sense and look at the overall diet. Like the poster recently who wasn't full 'til lunch on a breakfast of a bowl of cereal and what seemed to be no vegetables in the diet. Well, sure, that seems commonplace to me, but it doesn't mean that carbs make you hungry. It means that protein and (typically) more calories can help.
And if one gets hungry after eating sugar when one wouldn't be, don't eat it if it bugs you. I think that's unusual, though. I eat dessert when I'm not hungry anyway and it makes me more full, not less.0 -
I am entitled to my opinion just like you. I want everyone to be healthy and eat healthy and a tax will help.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Added sugars are bad and should be taxed heavily. People can't just eat added sugars and be allowed to get away with it! That has to end! Must be stopped and the sooner the better. Think of the children eating ice cream and Snicker bars, handed to them, tax-free! It almost makes you want to cry, doesn't it? Bad parents. Bad America. Terrible for healthcare as well as health.
Fructose, glucose, galactose...any natural sugar is fine and shouldn't be taxed unless it is concentrated artificially to kill children, because that really is evil. A high tax on added sugars and any artificial kind of sugar is long overdue.
Man, you really are playing the long troll with this, aren't you?
It's almost admirable.
You say "sugar" I say "tax"!
I'm no longer arguing it, but will voice my opinion. It is brave to voice an unpopular opinion, so I'll take the admiration. And the congratulations when the tax comes.
Carry on.
It will work as well as the taxes on cigarettes. Don't you know, nobody smokes now....
Well if the tax pays for healthcare it would still be a good deal for a lot of people. I love taxes I can avoid.
How about instead of a tax to punish sugar consumption, you give a tax break to those who can maintain a healthy lifestyle. Healthy weight, waist to height ratio, waist to hips ratio, don't smoke, drink occasionally. I live a very healthy lifestyle that OMG includes added sugar. Why the hell should I be taxed for that. Asinine!
Works for me!0 -
I am eating more fruit now then I ever have. I don't really care how much sugar is in it because it is natural. I love fruit with yogurt. This has become my new treat.1
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mskessler89 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
As far as glucose goes I understand your position. That is generally 1/2 of sugar. The concern over the fructose in sugar as we don't directly metabolism it and studies are supporting that it doesn't take too much fructose for the liver to start producing LDL from it. I'm not sure can believe that what is bad for a sedentary person wouldn't also be bad for you. The WHO is actually a world wide organization, most of the world is far more active that say US, UK or AUS.
The calorie argument isn't as strong since sugar is only 4 kc/gram. Clearly many consume way over 100 grams / day and that is a lot of calories but that is also an awful lot of added sugar.
I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
To the first bolded: it still comes down to calories. If someone is getting 100g of added sugar from soda, they're still eating food. I don't know anyone who's ok going hungry so they can drink 400 calories of soda and stay within their calorie goal. Therefore it's extremely likely they're overconsuming calories. If they're getting 100g of added sugar from food, like cheesecake, they're also getting a big dose of fat, which has a lot of calories. By restricting sugar to 10% of your intake, you're ultimately controlling calories.
To the second bolded: when you cut out desserts, what did you replace those calories with? Protein? Fiber? Fat? You know, things that are generally known to be more satiating? And when you reduced added sugars further, what were the sources? Was it sugared-up fat free yogurt, or was it a combination of sugar and fat, like a breakfast pastry? Most of the time when people say they've cut down/cut out sugar, they really mean they've cut out hyperpalatable foods that include fat.
I didn't replace any calories, I only cut the deserts (and more sugar since then). I didn't make other changes other than to stop snacking on nuts. I'm eating less and have much less hunger. The less added sugar I have the less hunger. Overall I'm eating about 500 kc a day less without the hunger I used to have. I still feel some hunger at times if I haven't eaten for a while, it is just not a driving hunger.
I didn't understand what was going on at first. I have experimented by having an ice cream cone a couple weeks ago, about 20 grams of added sugar. My hunger was much higher a couple hours after that, but not as bad as I used to have. I still eat 3 to 4 servings of fruit in the morning, but that doesn't seem to cause problems. My morning meal is very high in fiber, so that probably helps. It is the same morning meal except it only has 5 grams of added sugar now vs. 17 grams before. My breakfast is large, about 750 kc. Lunch is about the same size or little larger. Supper is normally pretty light, maybe 400 kc. Total averages around 2200 kc / day. Before I was eating closer to 2700 kc / day.
Overall my added sugar wasn't that high, often less than 50 grams a day. I'm just doing better on less than 10 grams a day of added sugar. It is pretty hard to avoid all added sugar unless you make everything from scratch. So things like salad dressing and other sauces still add sugar,
I realize that my approach may not work for others. I just seem to be very hunger driven as my added sugar gets higher. I'm also eating well above my BMR. However I'm experiencing a much higher satiaty level on the same diet sans a bunch of the sugary stuff.
So is salad dressing one of the things you cut out? Because that's sugar you're consuming with vegetables, that have fiber and nutrients. Like fruit.
Also, I'm not sure how your morning meal can be the same if the sugar content changed.
Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
Breakfast is the easiest meal to remove sugar from.
I've never eaten a sugary breakfast (or really any sugary meal -- I find it odd that lunch or dinner would be hard to remove sugar from, if you mean added sugar, or that there'd even be much there in the first place). I usually do have some fruit with breakfast, so I guess that's sugar (today's breakfast was leftover turkey, zucchini, cottage cheese, and cherries). I also have vegetables with all meals when I can, so more sugar.As far as salads go, I never liked dressings much, so I generally don't use very much. When you avoid mayo, it cuts out a lot. However I do like an onion dressing, if I use that it is another 2 or 3 grams of added sugar. (Normally I prefer cheese on my salad to dressing, heck I prefer cheese on just about anything, at least the cheese here isn't sweetened, although it isn't that great either.)
I like dressing and sometimes cheese. I make dressing of vinegar and oil or maybe add some mustard. I find it odd that you'd consider dressing a source of sugar (some are, but it's easy to avoid). Personally, I generally don't use pre-made dressings and I despise sweet tasting dressings (fruit vinaigrette or honey mustard, blech). Mayo has no sugar, or shouldn't (I'm not really a fan, but I've made it from time to time). Sweetened cheese? Weird, where is cheese typically sweetened? (I'm in the US, and I don't eat "sweetened cheese" so if you are saying it's not in Japan, that's hardly something unusual.)
I don't find it hard to avoid hunger at all. I tend to think that most people with hunger issues are really dealing with a "want to eat" issue or eat a poor diet. I understand that some subset of people have issues with carbs, even carbs with fiber. I find this odd, in that I doubt people in societies without an overabundance of food are starving on high carb diets, but I accept it's a thing in the current context that we live in.0 -
If I were to eat a T of straight sugar I doubt it would make me hungry...1
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WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
But, and I'll say it again, you did not JUST cut out sugar. You cut out sugar, fat and salt. So, again, why single out sugar?
No one ever seems to address this point. @lemurcat12 makes it quite often. Strange...
They can't because the second they do their whole theory/argument is moot...
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WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
So I'm really not understanding this hunger thing, help me out. When were you hungry? At meal times? After not eating for a while? Were you hungry after dinner, eating ice cream, it didn't fill you up, so you are contributing the perpetual hunger to the sugar? Or were you satiated after eating all the other foods you ate that day, ate some ice cream, and then became hungry again? I really don't understand and would like to get more details as to why you directly associate the hunger with the dessert consumption (and particularly the sugar in the dessert and not the fat or other components).1 -
Interesting thread!
Answer to OP: An active person can safely consume 50g of Fructose per day, which appears to be the limiting factor in sugar consumption (i.e. you could eat 500g of glucose per day without ill effect assuming adequate nutrition on an isocaloric diet).
Re: "Sugar makes me hungry." Two points.
1) I think many people, particularly in the overweight population, do not know what actual hunger feels like, and mistakes a psychological craving for food for actual physical hunger. On the other hand, people with severe insulin/leptin resistance (many/most obese individuals) may experience physical hunger even eating at a caloric surplus (fortunately this is resolvable rapidly through visceral fat loss). It is possible that the impaired ability to metabolize sugar plays a role in reports of sugar making people hungry, although that issue is really overshadowed by the larger health concerns such a state brings about.
2) Many people ignore the role of caloric density in satiety. Eating 1000 calories of table sugar will not fill you up the same way eating 1000 calories of cucumber will. The former could be consumed in a matter of minutes and leave the stomach relatively empty, while 1000 calories of cucumber is more than most people could consume in a day. So yes, switching from a 150 calorie soda to 2 pounds of cucumber will result in you being less hungry, despite the fact that the number of calories is the same. Perhaps this is partially due to how rapidly sugar is metabolized, but I suspect it has more to do with the physical presence of food in the stomach. Anecdotally, my last diet was 1250 calories/day as a very active (~10 hrs weight training+3 hours cardio/week) and fairly muscular individual, and I had 0 hunger issues, because it consisted of ~1.5 pounds of chicken, a pound of cucumber, and a small quantity of other foods... it was actually fairly difficult to eat all of that in a day.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
So I'm really not understanding this hunger thing, help me out. When were you hungry? At meal times? After not eating for a while? Were you hungry after dinner, eating ice cream, it didn't fill you up, so you are contributing the perpetual hunger to the sugar? Or were you satiated after eating all the other foods you ate that day, ate some ice cream, and then became hungry again? I really don't understand and would like to get more details as to why you directly associate the hunger with the dessert consumption (and particularly the sugar in the dessert and not the fat or other components).
I'll try and explain how it feels like for me.. I wouldn't call it hunger, it's more a craving and never ending thoughts of food and a big slab of weak willpower. One serving of ice cream ppffftt this will never happen for me, why? I honestly cant explain, greed and wanting more of that yummy taste. Breakfast cereal, i can eat a whole box of cheerios in a couple of hours, hence why it's a once every month or two treat. I blame carbs, but if i'm to be totally honest it's most likely my weak will when it comes to certain foods, but one thing i'm sure of is it's not stomach grumbling hunger.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
So I'm really not understanding this hunger thing, help me out. When were you hungry? At meal times? After not eating for a while? Were you hungry after dinner, eating ice cream, it didn't fill you up, so you are contributing the perpetual hunger to the sugar? Or were you satiated after eating all the other foods you ate that day, ate some ice cream, and then became hungry again? I really don't understand and would like to get more details as to why you directly associate the hunger with the dessert consumption (and particularly the sugar in the dessert and not the fat or other components).
I'll try and explain how it feels like for me.. I wouldn't call it hunger, it's more a craving and never ending thoughts of food and a big slab of weak willpower. One serving of ice cream ppffftt this will never happen for me, why? I honestly cant explain, greed and wanting more of that yummy taste. Breakfast cereal, i can eat a whole box of cheerios in a couple of hours, hence why it's a once every month or two treat. I blame carbs, but if i'm to be totally honest it's most likely my weak will when it comes to certain foods, but one thing i'm sure of is it's not stomach grumbling hunger.
Okay... But that's not what that poster said. He said it is true hunger and it is only sugar that brings it on. I'm trying to understand more about why he feels sugar, and sugar alone, is the culprit.
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WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
So I'm really not understanding this hunger thing, help me out. When were you hungry? At meal times? After not eating for a while? Were you hungry after dinner, eating ice cream, it didn't fill you up, so you are contributing the perpetual hunger to the sugar? Or were you satiated after eating all the other foods you ate that day, ate some ice cream, and then became hungry again? I really don't understand and would like to get more details as to why you directly associate the hunger with the dessert consumption (and particularly the sugar in the dessert and not the fat or other components).
I'll try and explain how it feels like for me.. I wouldn't call it hunger, it's more a craving and never ending thoughts of food and a big slab of weak willpower. One serving of ice cream ppffftt this will never happen for me, why? I honestly cant explain, greed and wanting more of that yummy taste. Breakfast cereal, i can eat a whole box of cheerios in a couple of hours, hence why it's a once every month or two treat. I blame carbs, but if i'm to be totally honest it's most likely my weak will when it comes to certain foods, but one thing i'm sure of is it's not stomach grumbling hunger.
Okay... But that's not what that poster said. He said it is true hunger and it is only sugar that brings it on. I'm trying to understand more about why he feels sugar, and sugar alone, is the culprit.
True hunger.. Maybe i'm speaking out of turn here, but i doubt many of us here have ever felt true hunger.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
So I'm really not understanding this hunger thing, help me out. When were you hungry? At meal times? After not eating for a while? Were you hungry after dinner, eating ice cream, it didn't fill you up, so you are contributing the perpetual hunger to the sugar? Or were you satiated after eating all the other foods you ate that day, ate some ice cream, and then became hungry again? I really don't understand and would like to get more details as to why you directly associate the hunger with the dessert consumption (and particularly the sugar in the dessert and not the fat or other components).
I'll try and explain how it feels like for me.. I wouldn't call it hunger, it's more a craving and never ending thoughts of food and a big slab of weak willpower. One serving of ice cream ppffftt this will never happen for me, why? I honestly cant explain, greed and wanting more of that yummy taste. Breakfast cereal, i can eat a whole box of cheerios in a couple of hours, hence why it's a once every month or two treat. I blame carbs, but if i'm to be totally honest it's most likely my weak will when it comes to certain foods, but one thing i'm sure of is it's not stomach grumbling hunger.
Okay... But that's not what that poster said. He said it is true hunger and it is only sugar that brings it on. I'm trying to understand more about why he feels sugar, and sugar alone, is the culprit.
True hunger.. Maybe i'm speaking out of turn here, but i doubt many of us here have ever felt true hunger.
I agree. Unless you've been through survival training perhaps or grew up poor on a failing farm. The reason most of us are here is pretty much for this1 -
There is more and more research showing that too much sugar is toxic. Almost everything can be toxic, it depends on how much and how fast one is exposed to it.
One of the toxic effects of too much sugar: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/
The article you linked to never once states that sugar is toxic, or its consumption causes diabetes. Here is an article that discusses the causes of diabetes 1 and 2:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/basics/causes/CON-20033091
There are genetic components to both, and one of the factors that seems to be related to development of type 2 is being fat. Not eating sugar.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
I'm not particularly hungry, no matter how I eat (assuming adequate calories and a balanced diet, which I've always had). I overate for other reasons. I don't really think most people are actually hungry when they are eating adequate calories, even on the SAD.
I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me.
I agree with Lemurcat, I never had particular issues with hunger, even on a modest calorie deficit. If someone is struggling with that, I would look at the overall composition of their diet and try to find more satiating foods, add in more proteins and fats or volume through veggies. I wouldn't look and say it was the desserts making me hungry.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I tried a lot of things, nothing worked. Cut the sugar and then hunger is gone. It isn't composition of diet because if it was I would still be hungry. Anyway my diet isn't that random, except for breakfast it is basically a Japanese diet now. In my case I'm 100% certain it was the extra sugar making me hungry. I understand that it is hard to believe, I didn't believe it myself for weeks. Less food would normally mean more hunger. However when I cut more added sugar my feelings of being satiatied improved.
Anyway, it works for me and at least while I'm living in Japan, cutting sugar is easy. It would probably be much harder to do in the states.
So I'm really not understanding this hunger thing, help me out. When were you hungry? At meal times? After not eating for a while? Were you hungry after dinner, eating ice cream, it didn't fill you up, so you are contributing the perpetual hunger to the sugar? Or were you satiated after eating all the other foods you ate that day, ate some ice cream, and then became hungry again? I really don't understand and would like to get more details as to why you directly associate the hunger with the dessert consumption (and particularly the sugar in the dessert and not the fat or other components).
I would get very hungry between meals. I was snacking often on nuts to get to the next meal. By meal time I was experience extreme levels of hunger. The hunger clearly wasn't real because my body had enough food but it felt real. A few months ago I decided to live with it and lose some more weight and just mostly cut things with lots of sugar because it was easy. Basically I dropped my added sugar consumption down from about 50 grams / day to around 20 grams / day. Everything else was the same. After doing that my hunger became subdued. I still felt it but I didn't need to snack and I was not so hungry at meal times. About a month ago I cut more added sugars, a little harder this time, but down to less than 10 grams / day. Again my levels of hunger improved. I typically don't feel quite full when I finish a meal, but I can easily go 4 to 6 hours without eating again. Even in the morning I don't have as much hunger as I used too. After about 4 or 5 hours I'll start feeling some hunger, but it seems to be more normal levels.
About 8 years ago when I was working in the states, I actually had my weight lower at times, but I was always defeated by hunger. I tried many things, the only thing that would work was exercise. When my weight was the lowest it was when I was biking to work. This cost me half hour each way because I also took a shower after riding. It was 10 miles each way with a 300' long hill in the middle. Anyway I used to even eat large bags of carrots, anything to keep the hunger controlled. Eventually hunger always won.
I'm not claiming that cutting added sugar to curb hunger will work for other people, it is just working well for me. Since my diet was lower on processed foods, it is easier to cut sugar. In Japan it isn't hard to find low sugar food, low salt is hard, but not low sugar. Some Japanese sauces and soups are sweet, but I normally don't have those very often.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
@Christine_72
I wouldn't say I'm a "pro-sugar supporter" - just anti ignorance.
(No I'm not accusing you of ignorance BTW)
Not currently logging food intake but have logged for the most of the past year, I don't track sugar separately anyway as it's just a subset of carbs to me, no idea what my average consumption is as it's simply a non-issue for me. Low consumption I would guess compared to the average person.
Don't have a sweet tooth so don't really tend to eat a lot sweet things apart from fruit.
Also no history of any related illness in my family that would encourage me to track or be concerned about sugar.
You will notice people you term pro-sugar often refer to it as fuel for their exercise, that context seems to get overlooked by keyboard warriors with an agenda and odd beliefs verging on religious fervour (again, not referring to you Christine).
If you want an idea of what fuelling extreme exercise looks like then have a look at this day.
myfitnesspal.com/exercise/diary?id=sijomial&date=2016-06-05
A huge amount of sugar (in various forms) consumed but obviously that's a very atypical day, my normal days are nothing like this.
Carbs in general and sugars in particular are the preferred energy source for extreme and/or long duration exercise. Your digestion is compromised to a degree by the exercise and you need easy to digest, low bulk food.
4855 calories eaten, 645g of carbs consumed and a large calorie deficit at the end of the day.
I suppose you could say I'm pro-sugar when I need it and ambivalent about sugar when I don't?
0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
@Christine_72
I wouldn't say I'm a "pro-sugar supporter" - just anti ignorance.
(No I'm not accusing you of ignorance BTW)
Not currently logging food intake but have logged for the most of the past year, I don't track sugar separately anyway as it's just a subset of carbs to me, no idea what my average consumption is as it's simply a non-issue for me. Low consumption I would guess compared to the average person.
Don't have a sweet tooth so don't really tend to eat a lot sweet things apart from fruit.
Also no history of any related illness in my family that would encourage me to track or be concerned about sugar.
You will notice people you term pro-sugar often refer to it as fuel for their exercise, that context seems to get overlooked by keyboard warriors with an agenda and odd beliefs verging on religious fervour (again, not referring to you Christine).
If you want an idea of what fuelling extreme exercise looks like then have a look at this day.
myfitnesspal.com/exercise/diary?id=sijomial&date=2016-06-05
A huge amount of sugar (in various forms) consumed but obviously that's a very atypical day, my normal days are nothing like this.
Carbs in general and sugars in particular are the preferred energy source for extreme and/or long duration exercise. Your digestion is compromised to a degree by the exercise and you need easy to digest, low bulk food.
4855 calories eaten, 645g of carbs consumed and a large calorie deficit at the end of the day.
I suppose you could say I'm pro-sugar when I need it and ambivalent about sugar when I don't?
I'll take a look, and thank you for wording your post in a kind, non combative way 1 -
My actual sugar intake include fruit is about 75 grams / day. ~ 70 grams is from the fruit. I do eat a lot of fruit at breakfast. My diary isn't open, because I use it more to see what I'm eating rather to track what I'm eating. Things don't match up exactly because they often aren't in the database. I also notice that protein is often entered incorrectly. For example it told me that karaage had 0 grams of protein. (Basically fried chicken.)0
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