More plateau advice
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carnivalnights wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I understand your frustration - I've had some long plateaus as well and was never able to get useful advice from other MFP users, nor from doctors. A true plateau is similar to what you described... there are fluctuations, but despite eating at a deficit, you are not losing weight. Likewise, eating at a surplus will not cause you to gain weight.
My suggestion is to first find out for certain that you are in a true plateau and that you are not eating at maintenance inadvertently (as many previous comments suggest). To determine this, increase calorie intake significantly for the next 3-4 weeks. Don't change anything else (especially workouts / CO). If possible, increase by 2K calories per day. If you're eating at maintenance today (i.e. your BMR is miscalculated to be higher than it really is), then you should start gaining weight quickly. If you are in a true plateau, on the other hand, your weight will not significantly change. You will notice greater day-to-day fluctuations, but it will fluctuate up and down around the same number. Once you have either confirmed you are in a true plateau or found that your BMR is miscalculated, then you can take the next step.
During my longest plateau (5 months), I did the above for 6 weeks and started by increasing calories on average about 3K per day - ended up about 500 over as I gradually decreased the surplus (due to unrelated reasons, I became more satisfied with less food). Weight didn't change, except daily fluctuations became larger. There was even a point where my weight increased 9 lbs. within less than 4 hours. But since I was hovering around the same weight, I could confidently say that I was in a true plateau (because a sharp CI increase did not lead to sustained weight gain, just as a deficit was not resulting in a sustained weight loss).
Thank you for this insight. My calories are currently at 1500 and I usually don't even eat that, so I highly doubt I could manage increasing by 2000 per day. I just literally can't eat that much (nor can I afford to money-wise, haha)! :P Wish there was an easier way to determine this.
Increase what you can... if it is fewer calories, then you will need to spend more time to see if there are scale changes or not. It will tell you whether on a true plateau or not.
If you are already certain that you are in a true plateau, meaning that you are definitely eating in a calorie deficit but not losing weight (aside from water fluctuations), then I have bad news. A true plateau will just end when it ends. It will bring a big "whoosh" of weight loss when it ends as long as you stay consistent in a deficit, but it can't be forced to end... it is just going to require patience. Look forward to a huge loss in only a few days whenever it ends.2 -
StaciMarie1974 wrote: »OP, I understand you do not intend to open your diary. I skimmed thru the posts, and don't see (may have overlooked) any indication of what your current calorie intake goal is set to? In other words, how much are you logging per day on average?
You did mention use of a food scale. How aggressively do you use it? For all solids? For some solids? Do you account for cooking oils, condiments, beverages? It is worth mentioning that single items like slices of bread, pieces of fruit, etc. should still be weighed as they are not all the same size.
Then there is also the likely possibility that your body's metabolism does not work like the average person's. The average person is what BMR, etc. charts are based on. Have you had thyroid levels checked? (Did not see mention in the thread but again, I may have overlooked.) Your metabolism is also affected by your ratio of fat to muscle. Muscle burns more. Do you strength train? If not, getting started on that could be a good idea. It won't miraculously result in a scale drop, and might even show an increase due to water weight in the short term, but the long term results could mean good things for your body composition and increased burn ultimately.
Currently intake is set to 1500. Normally I end up between 1200-1400 in terms of what I end my day at. I pretty much never go over my calories.
I use the scale for any solids, yes, including bread and fruit. And yes, I do track things like oil and condiments (though for those two things specifically I usually use a measuring spoon). I track beverages, yes (I rarely have anything other than water so that's pretty easy).
I've noted in previous posts that I cannot go by BMR because when I calculate that, it's telling me to eat 2000-3000 calories a day. I have a desk job and am marking myself as sedentary (despise my exercise). If I am not losing weight and maintaining with 1500 (or actually less, on a regular basis as noted above), I really don't think that crazy increase is going to help me. I don't know how else to calculate what my calories should be. That's why I went to a nutritionist. I am not a nutritionist, but it does not seem right to me that I should be eating 3000 calories a day, nor could I even manage that! Yes, in my original post I mentioned thyroid. All blood work is fine. I do have weights incorporated into my exercise routines, yes, but I could stand to increase that. My nutritionist did some other math to set my at my calories (no idea what it was, sorry).0 -
I understand the math and sentiment behind "Starvation mode is a myth" and "eat more lose more doesn't work."
That said? Anecdotally, my three biggest single weight drops have come after a period where I take a break for a week or so. Not binging, not eating above maintenance, not stopping counting entirely - just relaxing on creating a large deficit. I did have my RMR tested a few years back while eating on a deficit and it was a good 15% lower than the calculators told me it "should" be. That was when I took my first break and ate at maintenance for a couple of weeks, and when I came back to eating at a deficit I lost more weight more easily than previously.
Probably what happened each time was a bit of metabolism bounce-back and a *lot* of renewed energy for accurate tracking and sticking to plan after my breaks.
Thanks for this.
It is certainly worth a shot! Thank you again for the information. It's good to hear it worked for you. Gives me more hope. 0 -
OH - I nearly forgot this cool trick. Pick a day - have four (4) apples throughout the day, followed by a steak and tomato for dinner. NO WORKOUTS. See if that works1
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If she was struggling to stay at her calorie goal because she was hungry, it would be a reasonable question. But it would not affect her weight loss if she is sticking to her calorie goal.
Yes or no...do you think insulin affects weight loss?
Not directly, no. If you have high blood sugar but control calories eaten so you are in a deficit, you will lose weight. Please don't hijack this nice woman's thread.
She's 100 pounds overweight and has tried everything and nothing has worked for the past six months and is seeking advice, is it really so wrong to suggest that maybe she cut back on sugar? Really? Maybe you don't believe it and maybe it won't work for everyone, but it's worked for many people I know personally. And maybe she doesn't eat foods with added sugar or maybe she fits those into her goals and doesn't want to or need to. But it's not hijacking the thread to suggest it and it's not your place to shoot the suggestion down...it's hers.
I personally did not think anything was wrong with you adding your two cents. I am open to listening to everyone here since I have been struggling so long. My dad is diabetic so one of the reasons my added sugar intake is so low is because I drastically changed things in my diet after he was diagnosed, like cutting out juice entirely and paying very close attention to labels. This was before I even started my weight loss journey. My dad and I actually have a lot more to talk about now since we are always counting carbs together when we're at family dinners or restaurants.
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Make sure your scale is accurate, yesterday I realized the scale I had at my desk was off by 20% (free cheap analog scale). BTW the scale is in the trash!
I would honestly rip my hairs out one by one if that was the issue! Haha. Thanks though! I will check this when I get home. I have quite an expensive scale that I invested in so I am hoping it's fine.0 -
carnivalnights wrote: »I am taking one last stab and moving on after this..
I made a suggestion to see if you might want to work with someone one on one off the thread, no answer.
I also wanted to know how many times or at what weight increment were the calorie GOALS were adjusted in MFP? If any?
Apart from these question, in light of the last post made, how long was this increase in 300 calories done? And was it around or after or before a calorie adjustment GOAL was done? I am looking for something to clue me in further as to what may be happening apart from every single thing that was mentioned already tried and failed.
Because if a person stalls for 4 -5 months, they some how have slowly crept back up in their maintenance calories which is easy to do. I am not concerned with the exercise calories at all at this point in the deficit equation.
I'm trying to keep up and ended up answering your next post first. Wasn't ignoring you. Yes, I would be willing to work with someone on here if it sounded like they really wanted to help me and had the knowledge to do so.
I answered the calorie goals question in the other reply.
The increase to 300 was done BECAUSE of the weight stall. I was told I may have cut my calories too much the previous time and that my body might be going into starvation mode (and I was hungry more than usual so that makes sense). When I decreased the 300 calories, the weight was coming off very, very slowly and then tapered off and stopped all together. So the weight loss stopped after 300 decrease and continued with the 300 increase. As to how many weeks or months after that decrease the weight loss stopped, I am not entirely sure. But as I noted before, nothing changed in terms of what I was eating, how much I was exercising, etc.
I am calling you out on this one.
On July 8th you lost 49 pounds according to your thread. In this one, you lost 70 pound and it is less than one month later.. What is true?
Edited to also ask November 2015 you lost 60 pounds.. Still trying to figure out how many you lost, what has been going on since November 2015.. the posts showing in July is what I see as weight gain if you went back to 49 pounds you say you lost in July 2016.
Get what I am trying to ask here? We do not care what the answers are, just that you post and ask for help that makes sense, because this is one gigantic puzzle you have asked us to try and solve.
We do not get paid to be here and give advice, or spend our time on the forums, but is is still our time.. make sense?
Just curious why it seems you are bullying this person. Who cares what they said last year. Maybe they are in a different place now than they were then. You don't know. If it frustrates you then don't answer, but it seems there are plenty of people who just sit and cyberbully others. I think you have to be an adult to be on MFP and a bully is a bully. Respect each other.1 -
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This TDEE calculator is created by someone in MFP & it really helps with understanding what YOU should be consuming for your calories to meet your goal. Your calorie consumption will need to decrease as you lose weight because the smaller you are the less your body needs. Check it out. sailrabbit.com/bmr/0
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carnivalnights wrote: »I am taking one last stab and moving on after this..
I made a suggestion to see if you might want to work with someone one on one off the thread, no answer.
I also wanted to know how many times or at what weight increment were the calorie GOALS were adjusted in MFP? If any?
Apart from these question, in light of the last post made, how long was this increase in 300 calories done? And was it around or after or before a calorie adjustment GOAL was done? I am looking for something to clue me in further as to what may be happening apart from every single thing that was mentioned already tried and failed.
Because if a person stalls for 4 -5 months, they some how have slowly crept back up in their maintenance calories which is easy to do. I am not concerned with the exercise calories at all at this point in the deficit equation.
I'm trying to keep up and ended up answering your next post first. Wasn't ignoring you. Yes, I would be willing to work with someone on here if it sounded like they really wanted to help me and had the knowledge to do so.
I answered the calorie goals question in the other reply.
The increase to 300 was done BECAUSE of the weight stall. I was told I may have cut my calories too much the previous time and that my body might be going into starvation mode (and I was hungry more than usual so that makes sense). When I decreased the 300 calories, the weight was coming off very, very slowly and then tapered off and stopped all together. So the weight loss stopped after 300 decrease and continued with the 300 increase. As to how many weeks or months after that decrease the weight loss stopped, I am not entirely sure. But as I noted before, nothing changed in terms of what I was eating, how much I was exercising, etc.
I am calling you out on this one.
On July 8th you lost 49 pounds according to your thread. In this one, you lost 70 pound and it is less than one month later.. What is true?
Edited to also ask November 2015 you lost 60 pounds.. Still trying to figure out how many you lost, what has been going on since November 2015.. the posts showing in July is what I see as weight gain if you went back to 49 pounds you say you lost in July 2016.
Get what I am trying to ask here? We do not care what the answers are, just that you post and ask for help that makes sense, because this is one gigantic puzzle you have asked us to try and solve.
We do not get paid to be here and give advice, or spend our time on the forums, but is is still our time.. make sense?
Just curious why it seems you are bullying this person. Who cares what they said last year. Maybe they are in a different place now than they were then. You don't know. If it frustrates you then don't answer, but it seems there are plenty of people who just sit and cyberbully others. I think you have to be an adult to be on MFP and a bully is a bully. Respect each other. [/quot
Point made!0 -
Raptor2763 wrote: »OH - I nearly forgot this cool trick. Pick a day - have four (4) apples throughout the day, followed by a steak and tomato for dinner. NO WORKOUTS. See if that works
I would love to hear the science behind this...
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Raptor2763 wrote: »OH - I nearly forgot this cool trick. Pick a day - have four (4) apples throughout the day, followed by a steak and tomato for dinner. NO WORKOUTS. See if that works
what the heck is this advise.. mo bro science???
I find it slightly amusing that you have said several times you're backing out of this thread, but you keep coming back! It has a special allure I suppose...
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quiksylver296 wrote: »Raptor2763 wrote: »OH - I nearly forgot this cool trick. Pick a day - have four (4) apples throughout the day, followed by a steak and tomato for dinner. NO WORKOUTS. See if that works
I would love to hear the science behind this...
No science...just a cool trick. Magic!
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how much more do you still need to lose and ow many calories are you eating daily -- does it meet your weight loss goals goals? or is it closer to maintenance? I'm sure you've looked at this -esp. since you had a nutritionist. What is your macro ratio? I know this sounds scary-but have you ever tried to just give it a rest.. take a few days off and actually add calories IF you're hungry (not cheat food) .For me - I was able to actually break a plateau when I stopped trying so hard- let myself have a bit more calories and didn't work out so much. Overtraining and under-eating can actually work against you too. You also mentioned your energy is on the lower side.. maybe there is a connection here. It definately gets harder the lighter and more fit you become. How fit are you? again..just wondering how much fat you really have left to lose.2
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lauranewman130 wrote: »how much more do you still need to lose and ow many calories are you eating daily -- does it meet your weight loss goals goals? or is it closer to maintenance? I'm sure you've looked at this -esp. since you had a nutritionist. What is your macro ratio? I know this sounds scary-but have you ever tried to just give it a rest.. take a few days off and actually add calories IF you're hungry (not cheat food) .For me - I was able to actually break a plateau when I stopped trying so hard- let myself have a bit more calories and didn't work out so much. Overtraining and under-eating can actually work against you too. You also mentioned your energy is on the lower side.. maybe there is a connection here. It definately gets harder the lighter and more fit you become. How fit are you? again..just wondering how much fat you really have left to lose.
She has said she still needs to lose 100 pounds...
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diannethegeek wrote: »I cannot offer any more advice than I offered in your last thread, but as someone giving advice here often I'm very concerned about your insistence that people here told you to raise your calories last time. I see a couple of people suggesting you may need some of your workout calories, but they all added caveats and addendums. Were some posts deleted or did you receive PMs about it? That's just such poor advice and usually is countered right away.
Either way, I'm sure you're very frustrated by all of this and we're all just guessing at this point. It might be time to find a new nutritionist (preferably a registered dietitian) if the person you're working with can't help you any more.
Hm, I don't believe I said that was the reason I increased. To recap: I went back to my nutritionist when I stopped losing weight, which was around the time or shortly after I DECREASED by 300 calories. My weight loss tapered off to nothing. She then said I was likely not eating enough, because I was also feeling hungry sometimes, and she told me to put my calories back up where they were because when they were there, I WAS losing weight. When I put them back to where they were, where they were when I initially lost weight, the weight loss still did not start up again. So regardless of increase or decrease, I have not lost any weight.
The person I saw is a registered dietician. I won't be going back to her either way since she cannot find what the issue is.0 -
Unfortunately, if "tips and tricks" were all it took to lose weight, no one would come here asking for help. Maybe OP should try vegetarian. Or low-carb. Or IF. Or Paleo. I heard lemon water in the morning helps. Maybe more green tea? Maybe she needs to switch steady-state cardio for HIIT. You could spend your whole life trying to figure out which "tricks" will help any one person get to the correct calorie deficit.
Most of the questions in this thread have been trying to get a handle on the math involved, because ultimately it comes down to the numbers. I don't see anyone trying to be mean or bullying, but maybe that's just my perspective.
OP, I'm glad to hear you checked out your nutritionist fully, and again, I hope you figure this out!1 -
If you are not loosing weight then you are not in a deficit. Its THAT simple. Ask yourself why you are not in a deficit and do something about it3
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Raptor2763 wrote: »OH - I nearly forgot this cool trick. Pick a day - have four (4) apples throughout the day, followed by a steak and tomato for dinner. NO WORKOUTS. See if that works
It'll 'work' because it's hardly any calories :noway:4
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