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Is dairy good or bad?
Replies
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lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
Interesting conclusion made out of "Two post-diagnostic dietary patterns were identified: a Prudent pattern, characterized by higher intake of vegetables, fruits, fish, legumes, and whole grains; and a Western pattern, characterized by higher intake of processed and red meats, high-fat dairy and refined grains."3 -
lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
That study grouped the participants into two categories based on diet. One group ate "high amounts" of things like red meat, saturated fats and full fat dairy. The other group ate "high amounts" of things like vegetables and lentils. This renders the results of the study inconclusive in regards to dairy consumption as an isolated factor.
The results do not show that dairy contributed to the mortality rate in a negative way as it could easily be that the vegetable/lentil consumption contributed in a positive way.
If you want to see how dairy alone affects prostate cancer survival rates, you'd need two groups of men whose diets differ only in their dairy intake.4 -
no bias noted in that blog post at all...3
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lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
Nice plagiarism of a paragraph from a personal opinion blog by an anti-meat "doctor" linking to a deeply flawed false-dichotomy "self reporting" study.
When you look at the underlying factors, it basically correlates eating more vegetables with better health. Duh. It conveniently leaves out low-fat dairy and poultry, two linchpins of the diet for many healthy, cancer free Westerners. I see nothing in this study proving that animal products cause cancer.
http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/8/6/545.figures-only3 -
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Carlos_421 wrote: »lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
That study grouped the participants into two categories based on diet. One group ate "high amounts" of things like red meat, saturated fats and full fat dairy. The other group ate "high amounts" of things like vegetables and lentils. This renders the results of the study inconclusive in regards to dairy consumption as an isolated factor.
The results do not show that dairy contributed to the mortality rate in a negative way as it could easily be that the vegetable/lentil consumption contributed in a positive way.
If you want to see how dairy alone affects prostate cancer survival rates, you'd need two groups of men whose diets differ only in their dairy intake.
The "Western" diet (because Westerners have never eaten a vegetable in their lives) consisted of:
Processed meats — 0.66
Red meats — 0.60
Eggs — 0.48
Snacks — 0.46
High-fat dairy products — 0.45
Potatoes — 0.44
French fries — 0.42
Butter — 0.39
Sweets and desserts — 0.35
Refined grains — 0.33
I'm surprised they left out the Snickers, Ho Hos, Fruity Pebbles, and Ding-Dongs food groups. VERY SCIENTIFIC.4 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
That study grouped the participants into two categories based on diet. One group ate "high amounts" of things like red meat, saturated fats and full fat dairy. The other group ate "high amounts" of things like vegetables and lentils. This renders the results of the study inconclusive in regards to dairy consumption as an isolated factor.
The results do not show that dairy contributed to the mortality rate in a negative way as it could easily be that the vegetable/lentil consumption contributed in a positive way.
If you want to see how dairy alone affects prostate cancer survival rates, you'd need two groups of men whose diets differ only in their dairy intake.
The "Western" diet (because Westerners have never eaten a vegetable in their lives) consisted of:
Processed meats — 0.66
Red meats — 0.60
Eggs — 0.48
Snacks — 0.46
High-fat dairy products — 0.45
Potatoes — 0.44
French fries — 0.42
Butter — 0.39
Sweets and desserts — 0.35
Refined grains — 0.33
I'm surprised they left out the Snickers, Ho Hos, Fruity Pebbles, and Ding-Dongs food groups. VERY SCIENTIFIC.
What's a vegetable???2 -
Not if you're lactose intolerant0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
That study grouped the participants into two categories based on diet. One group ate "high amounts" of things like red meat, saturated fats and full fat dairy. The other group ate "high amounts" of things like vegetables and lentils. This renders the results of the study inconclusive in regards to dairy consumption as an isolated factor.
The results do not show that dairy contributed to the mortality rate in a negative way as it could easily be that the vegetable/lentil consumption contributed in a positive way.
If you want to see how dairy alone affects prostate cancer survival rates, you'd need two groups of men whose diets differ only in their dairy intake.
The "Western" diet (because Westerners have never eaten a vegetable in their lives) consisted of:
Processed meats — 0.66
Red meats — 0.60
Eggs — 0.48
Snacks — 0.46
High-fat dairy products — 0.45
Potatoes — 0.44
French fries — 0.42
Butter — 0.39
Sweets and desserts — 0.35
Refined grains — 0.33
I'm surprised they left out the Snickers, Ho Hos, Fruity Pebbles, and Ding-Dongs food groups. VERY SCIENTIFIC.
What's a vegetable???
It's that thing that, when they show it to us, we hiss, cower and scuttle away. You remember--that thing...?
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jmbmilholland wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
That study grouped the participants into two categories based on diet. One group ate "high amounts" of things like red meat, saturated fats and full fat dairy. The other group ate "high amounts" of things like vegetables and lentils. This renders the results of the study inconclusive in regards to dairy consumption as an isolated factor.
The results do not show that dairy contributed to the mortality rate in a negative way as it could easily be that the vegetable/lentil consumption contributed in a positive way.
If you want to see how dairy alone affects prostate cancer survival rates, you'd need two groups of men whose diets differ only in their dairy intake.
The "Western" diet (because Westerners have never eaten a vegetable in their lives) consisted of:
Processed meats — 0.66
Red meats — 0.60
Eggs — 0.48
Snacks — 0.46
High-fat dairy products — 0.45
Potatoes — 0.44
French fries — 0.42
Butter — 0.39
Sweets and desserts — 0.35
Refined grains — 0.33
I'm surprised they left out the Snickers, Ho Hos, Fruity Pebbles, and Ding-Dongs food groups. VERY SCIENTIFIC.
What's a vegetable???
It's that thing that, when they show it to us, we hiss, cower and scuttle away. You remember--that thing...?
Oooohhh, yeah!!! Kale!!!1 -
Don't eat vegetables - those things are contaminated with vitamins and minerals.
...and they scream "Don't eat me" with their horrible taste.3 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
That study grouped the participants into two categories based on diet. One group ate "high amounts" of things like red meat, saturated fats and full fat dairy. The other group ate "high amounts" of things like vegetables and lentils. This renders the results of the study inconclusive in regards to dairy consumption as an isolated factor.
The results do not show that dairy contributed to the mortality rate in a negative way as it could easily be that the vegetable/lentil consumption contributed in a positive way.
If you want to see how dairy alone affects prostate cancer survival rates, you'd need two groups of men whose diets differ only in their dairy intake.
The "Western" diet (because Westerners have never eaten a vegetable in their lives) consisted of:
Processed meats — 0.66
Red meats — 0.60
Eggs — 0.48
Snacks — 0.46
High-fat dairy products — 0.45
Potatoes — 0.44
French fries — 0.42
Butter — 0.39
Sweets and desserts — 0.35
Refined grains — 0.33
I'm surprised they left out the Snickers, Ho Hos, Fruity Pebbles, and Ding-Dongs food groups. VERY SCIENTIFIC.
And beer.
You forgot beer.
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It is a very nutritious food with a good amount of protein, sugar (lactose), and fat (obviously less in reduced fat products). It is also a good source of calcium and other nutrients.
However, it can be problematic for people who are lactose intolerant (like me) or allergic to dairy.
Even though I am lactose intolerant I still use dairy in moderation. I find that I tolerate Greek yogurt the best. I put it in smoothies. I also like to put cheese on things like pasta and sandwiches. Basically I can eat a small to moderate amount of dairy once a day. I wish I could eat it more because it is a great source of vegetarian protein!! I would recommend dairy to anyone who can tolerate it
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Karb_Kween wrote: »Not if you're lactose intolerant
And in other news, those who are allergic to <insert food here> shouldn't eat <insert food here>. I'd think that would just fall under common sense.
There are also lactose-free dairy products which wouldn't present a problem to those with lactose intolerance. Fairlife milk comes to mind immediately.3 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »lcrampton44 wrote: »One particular type of cancer that affects men—and only men—is prostate cancer. In 2011, more than 200,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer. A recent study linked both meat and dairy product consumption with an increased risk of death after prostate cancer. This is consistent with previous research connecting animal products with a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, as well as increased mortality.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/got-a-prostate-ditch-the-dairy
Nice plagiarism of a paragraph from a personal opinion blog by an anti-meat "doctor" linking to a deeply flawed false-dichotomy "self reporting" study.
When you look at the underlying factors, it basically correlates eating more vegetables with better health. Duh. It conveniently leaves out low-fat dairy and poultry, two linchpins of the diet for many healthy, cancer free Westerners. I see nothing in this study proving that animal products cause cancer.
http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/8/6/545.figures-only
if you want to criticize a study, you should read it attentively first: "Food groups with loading factors less than 0.3 for both dietary patterns were not listed in the table, and included fruit juice, poultry, condiments, nuts, tea, low-fat dairy products, pizza, organ, cold breakfast cereal, wine, margarine, mayonnaise, low-energy drink, beer, coffee, high-energy drink, and liquor" (note on table 1).
It's safer to just repeat the old saying: association doesn't indicate causation
Also, seeing all that irony about Westerners not eating vegetables, I don't know if it is clear, but the study uses data from the Physicians' Health Study, that is an American study. Therefore those patients observed were all Americans or at least living in the US. So some Americans do eat vegetables in high amount (at least after a diagnosis of cancer), and others don't. It seems that the former are wiser.1 -
Delicious, but unfortunately, breaks me out like a mofo and causes me to bloat.0
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I'm off dairy...it's a natural inflammatory. I have cashew/almond nut milk for calcium instead.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »What does it even mean to claim that milk is not MEANT for us. If we are able to be nourished by it (and many of us have the genes that allow that), how is it not meant for us in a way that other animals or animal products or plants we eat (like, say, cows themselves or chickens or deer or eggs or almonds or broccoli or bananas are)? This way of looking at it just makes no sense to me. If nothing else it presupposes intelligent design, which is a religious POV, but then doesn't finish out the argument.
I've heard the claim that humans are the only species that continue to drink milk after they're weaned.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »What does it even mean to claim that milk is not MEANT for us. If we are able to be nourished by it (and many of us have the genes that allow that), how is it not meant for us in a way that other animals or animal products or plants we eat (like, say, cows themselves or chickens or deer or eggs or almonds or broccoli or bananas are)? This way of looking at it just makes no sense to me. If nothing else it presupposes intelligent design, which is a religious POV, but then doesn't finish out the argument.
I've heard the claim that humans are the only species that continue to drink milk after they're weaned.
I've also heard the claims that humans are the only species that drive cars, use computers, cook their food, preserve food in refrigerators and use microwave ovens. Any or all of those anecdotes are equally pointless when compared with other species.9 -
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lemurcat12 wrote: »What does it even mean to claim that milk is not MEANT for us. If we are able to be nourished by it (and many of us have the genes that allow that), how is it not meant for us in a way that other animals or animal products or plants we eat (like, say, cows themselves or chickens or deer or eggs or almonds or broccoli or bananas are)? This way of looking at it just makes no sense to me. If nothing else it presupposes intelligent design, which is a religious POV, but then doesn't finish out the argument.
I've heard the claim that humans are the only species that continue to drink milk after they're weaned.
Many animals will consume milk in the wild after being weaned when given the opportunity.lemurcat12 wrote: »What does it even mean to claim that milk is not MEANT for us. If we are able to be nourished by it (and many of us have the genes that allow that), how is it not meant for us in a way that other animals or animal products or plants we eat (like, say, cows themselves or chickens or deer or eggs or almonds or broccoli or bananas are)? This way of looking at it just makes no sense to me. If nothing else it presupposes intelligent design, which is a religious POV, but then doesn't finish out the argument.
I've heard the claim that humans are the only species that continue to drink milk after they're weaned.
I've also heard the claims that humans are the only species that drive cars, use computers, cook their food, preserve food in refrigerators and use microwave ovens. Any or all of those anecdotes are equally pointless when compared with other species.
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nutmegoreo wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What does it even mean to claim that milk is not MEANT for us. If we are able to be nourished by it (and many of us have the genes that allow that), how is it not meant for us in a way that other animals or animal products or plants we eat (like, say, cows themselves or chickens or deer or eggs or almonds or broccoli or bananas are)? This way of looking at it just makes no sense to me. If nothing else it presupposes intelligent design, which is a religious POV, but then doesn't finish out the argument.
I've heard the claim that humans are the only species that continue to drink milk after they're weaned.
Many animals will consume milk in the wild after being weaned when given the opportunity.lemurcat12 wrote: »What does it even mean to claim that milk is not MEANT for us. If we are able to be nourished by it (and many of us have the genes that allow that), how is it not meant for us in a way that other animals or animal products or plants we eat (like, say, cows themselves or chickens or deer or eggs or almonds or broccoli or bananas are)? This way of looking at it just makes no sense to me. If nothing else it presupposes intelligent design, which is a religious POV, but then doesn't finish out the argument.
I've heard the claim that humans are the only species that continue to drink milk after they're weaned.
I've also heard the claims that humans are the only species that drive cars, use computers, cook their food, preserve food in refrigerators and use microwave ovens. Any or all of those anecdotes are equally pointless when compared with other species.
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It's good. It's gooooooooood.1
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Dairy is to turn a baby cow into a fully grown cow that weighs over 1,000 pounds. It's baby formula for another animal, it WILL make you fat and put you at risk of other diseases. The dairy industry is full of animal abuse as well.1
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DomoChan16 wrote: »Dairy is to turn a baby cow into a fully grown cow that weighs over 1,000 pounds. It's baby formula for another animal, it WILL make you fat and put you at risk of other diseases. The dairy industry is full of animal abuse as well.
It's food. Period.
It cannot make you fat. Only an energy surplus can do that.
Please provide evidence that there is even one disease which dairy directly increases the risk of getting.
Also, the claims of animal abuse being rampant in the dairy industry is sensationalistic propaganda. Abused or distressed cows don't produce as well as happy cows. Making the cow happy is good business sense.8 -
DomoChan16 wrote: »Dairy is to turn a baby cow into a fully grown cow that weighs over 1,000 pounds. It's baby formula for another animal, it WILL make you fat and put you at risk of other diseases. The dairy industry is full of animal abuse as well.
I don't drink the same amount of milk a day that a 1,000lb cow does... So I have no fear of turning into a heifer
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lemurcat12 wrote: »What does it even mean to claim that milk is not MEANT for us. If we are able to be nourished by it (and many of us have the genes that allow that), how is it not meant for us in a way that other animals or animal products or plants we eat (like, say, cows themselves or chickens or deer or eggs or almonds or broccoli or bananas are)? This way of looking at it just makes no sense to me. If nothing else it presupposes intelligent design, which is a religious POV, but then doesn't finish out the argument.
I've heard the claim that humans are the only species that continue to drink milk after they're weaned.
Cats, Dogs, Ferrets, Pigs, pretty much any omnivorous animals will drink milk if given the chance.3 -
@DomoChan16DomoChan16 wrote: »Dairy is to turn a baby cow into a fully grown cow that weighs over 1,000 pounds. It's baby formula for another animal, it WILL make you fat and put you at risk of other diseases. The dairy industry is full of animal abuse as well.
"Baby cow" - please use adult language!
I'm 56 and drink a load of milk and eat a load of dairy products. When exactly will milk make me fat?1 -
DomoChan16 wrote: »Dairy is to turn a baby cow into a fully grown cow that weighs over 1,000 pounds. It's baby formula for another animal, it WILL make you fat and put you at risk of other diseases. The dairy industry is full of animal abuse as well.
I think I'd get fat if I was drinking 5000 - 7500 calories a day, too. I'd also get fat eating 5000 to 7500 calories a day in hummas.1 -
DomoChan16 wrote: »Dairy is to turn a baby cow into a fully grown cow that weighs over 1,000 pounds. It's baby formula for another animal, it WILL make you fat and put you at risk of other diseases. The dairy industry is full of animal abuse as well.
Sounds like fearmongering straight off a vegan propaganda site. I've drank milk and eaten yogurt, cheese, butter. whey, etc. throughout my entire life and I'm over 50 years old. I'm neither fat nor diseased. And if you want to see animal abuse, go watch how an animal predator takes down its prey.4
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