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Is dairy good or bad?
Replies
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salembambi wrote: »bad for you
& especially for the calf and mother cows
This was a question about effects on YOUR BODY. Please don't derail with your beliefs. We are all here to take care of our bodies in the ways we think are best for it, and it is not your place to tell anyone what they should or should not eat.1 -
cushman5279 wrote: »In many cultures of the world, especially the West, humans continue to consume milk beyond infancy, using the milk of other animals (especially cattle, goats and sheep) as a food product.
So how is it "unnatural" or something we are not "meant" to consume?Initially, the ability to digest milk was limited to children as adults did not produce lactase, an enzyme necessary for digesting the lactose in milk.
This is common knowledge. If you think it's news you are mistaken. But the point is, well, so what? Many of us (including a significant majority of those who happen to have ancestry primarily from northern and western Europe, as I do) DO produce lactase as adults, so if the presence of lactase is what determines if we are "meant" to drink/eat dairy or not, well, I guess I am. Thanks for pointing that out.Those groups who do continue to tolerate milk, however, often have exercised great creativity in using the milk of domesticated ungulates, not only of cattle, but also sheep, goats, yaks, water buffalo, horses, reindeer and camels. The largest producer and consumer of cattle and buffalo milk in the world is India.
Yep, I'm quite fond of goat's milk, cheese, and yogurt, and enjoy sheep's cheese. Haven't tried any of the other ones (other than cow's, of course).3 -
cushman5279 wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Food product for humans (Wiki)
The Holstein Friesian cattle is the dominant breed in quintessential industrialized dairy farms today
In many cultures of the world, especially the West, humans continue to consume milk beyond infancy, using the milk of other animals (especially cattle, goats and sheep) as a food product. Initially, the ability to digest milk was limited to children as adults did not produce lactase, an enzyme necessary for digesting the lactose in milk. Milk was therefore converted to curd, cheese and other products to reduce the levels of lactose. Thousands of years ago, a chance mutation spread in human populations in Europe that enabled the production of lactase in adulthood. This allowed milk to be used as a new source of nutrition which could sustain populations when other food sources failed.[16] Milk is processed into a variety of dairy products such as cream, butter, yogurt, kefir, ice cream, and cheese. Modern industrial processes use milk to produce casein, whey protein, lactose, condensed milk, powdered milk, and many other food-additives and industrial products.
Whole milk, butter and cream have high levels of saturated fat.[17][18] The sugar lactose is found only in milk, forsythia flowers, and a few tropical shrubs. The enzyme needed to digest lactose, lactase, reaches its highest levels in the small intestine after birth and then begins a slow decline unless milk is consumed regularly.[19] Those groups who do continue to tolerate milk, however, often have exercised great creativity in using the milk of domesticated ungulates, not only of cattle, but also sheep, goats, yaks, water buffalo, horses, reindeer and camels. The largest producer and consumer of cattle and buffalo milk in the world is India.[20]
Yep. We got lucky and now it's perfectly fine for most of us.
Luck has nothing to do with it.
It is luck. Mutations are random. The fact that many of us can use milk as a source of nutrients seems lucky to me.2 -
There are no good or bad foods...just bad habits....JMO
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cushman5279 wrote: »Food product for humans (Wiki)
The Holstein Friesian cattle is the dominant breed in quintessential industrialized dairy farms today
In many cultures of the world, especially the West, humans continue to consume milk beyond infancy, using the milk of other animals (especially cattle, goats and sheep) as a food product. Initially, the ability to digest milk was limited to children as adults did not produce lactase, an enzyme necessary for digesting the lactose in milk. Milk was therefore converted to curd, cheese and other products to reduce the levels of lactose. Thousands of years ago, a chance mutation spread in human populations in Europe that enabled the production of lactase in adulthood. This allowed milk to be used as a new source of nutrition which could sustain populations when other food sources failed.[16] Milk is processed into a variety of dairy products such as cream, butter, yogurt, kefir, ice cream, and cheese. Modern industrial processes use milk to produce casein, whey protein, lactose, condensed milk, powdered milk, and many other food-additives and industrial products.
Whole milk, butter and cream have high levels of saturated fat.[17][18] The sugar lactose is found only in milk, forsythia flowers, and a few tropical shrubs. The enzyme needed to digest lactose, lactase, reaches its highest levels in the small intestine after birth and then begins a slow decline unless milk is consumed regularly.[19] Those groups who do continue to tolerate milk, however, often have exercised great creativity in using the milk of domesticated ungulates, not only of cattle, but also sheep, goats, yaks, water buffalo, horses, reindeer and camels. The largest producer and consumer of cattle and buffalo milk in the world is India.[20]
@cushman5279 I don't really understand why you bolded the word "mutation" like it is something bad. Random mutations that are carried on genetically is how evolution happens.
Maybe you should go round up the insect-eating finches on the Galagagos Islands and tell them to stop eating insects, since their beak shapes that allow them to easily eat insects are the result of a genetic mutation that was passed down through finch generations, meaning they're actually not "meant to" eat insects and should start eating seeds again for their health.5 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »Food product for humans (Wiki)
The Holstein Friesian cattle is the dominant breed in quintessential industrialized dairy farms today
In many cultures of the world, especially the West, humans continue to consume milk beyond infancy, using the milk of other animals (especially cattle, goats and sheep) as a food product. Initially, the ability to digest milk was limited to children as adults did not produce lactase, an enzyme necessary for digesting the lactose in milk. Milk was therefore converted to curd, cheese and other products to reduce the levels of lactose. Thousands of years ago, a chance mutation spread in human populations in Europe that enabled the production of lactase in adulthood. This allowed milk to be used as a new source of nutrition which could sustain populations when other food sources failed.[16] Milk is processed into a variety of dairy products such as cream, butter, yogurt, kefir, ice cream, and cheese. Modern industrial processes use milk to produce casein, whey protein, lactose, condensed milk, powdered milk, and many other food-additives and industrial products.
Whole milk, butter and cream have high levels of saturated fat.[17][18] The sugar lactose is found only in milk, forsythia flowers, and a few tropical shrubs. The enzyme needed to digest lactose, lactase, reaches its highest levels in the small intestine after birth and then begins a slow decline unless milk is consumed regularly.[19] Those groups who do continue to tolerate milk, however, often have exercised great creativity in using the milk of domesticated ungulates, not only of cattle, but also sheep, goats, yaks, water buffalo, horses, reindeer and camels. The largest producer and consumer of cattle and buffalo milk in the world is India.[20]
@cushman5279 I don't really understand why you bolded the word "mutation" like it is something bad. Random mutations that are carried on genetically is how evolution happens.
Precisely! Random mutations can be quite advantageous. For instance - last Christmas norovirus swept through my home. My husband and three of my four children were sick as dogs, with concentrated evil pouring from both ends, for days. My three year old didn't get sick at all, and I, despite being primary caregiver (and cleaner-upper) vomited twice then felt better. Apparently there is a genetic mutation some fortunate souls possess that makes it harder for norovirus to infect them (it has to do with them not secreting the ABO blood alleles in their saliva - that's what norovirus likes to attach itself to), and if they do get it, the illness is mild and short lived. All I know is I've never been more glad to be a "mutant".
I'm also glad I posses the mutation that allows me to consume dairy.
Winning.
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The lactase persistent mutation led to the increased survival of earlier Europeans - Milk was something that was in good and constant supply and provided valuable protein and calories, not to mention something to drink that was not contaminated. The spread of the gene followed the spread of dairy farming. This gene is believed to be favored especially in northern latitudes because it allows a constant supply of vitamin D (difficult to get in northern climates) and calcium. Just because we are humans that drink milk does not mean it is any different from any other advantageous trait of the animal world. The reason many have lost the ability to digest lactose is because it is no longer such an advantage -- we have plenty of other things to eat.
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cushman5279 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »salembambi wrote: »bad for you
& especially for the calf and mother cows
Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.
Totally wrong.
Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.
Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.
The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.
You're either lying or have never been on a farm. Literally everything here is incorrect, other than the part about mama cows getting upset when the babies are taken from them. That's why they aren't.4 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »salembambi wrote: »bad for you
& especially for the calf and mother cows
Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.
Totally wrong.
Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.
Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.
The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.
You're either lying or have never been on a farm. Literally everything here is incorrect, other than the part about mama cows getting upset when the babies are taken from them. That's why they aren't.
At some point calves are separated from the cows, at least on some farms. Most veal comes from the male offspring of dairy cows. Bob veal (meat from calves who are a month old at most) is still available and a lot of calves who are used for veal are finished on formula. Free-raised calves (those who have access to their mother's milk until they are slaughtered) do exist, but other calves only have from a few hours to a few weeks with their mother until they are removed. Crate confinement is still legal for calves in the US (only eight states ban it), it's still used by some farmers.
All sorts of farm practices exist. It's as inaccurate to say that calves who are used for veal are always allowed to stay with their mother until slaughter as it is to say that none of them are allowed to stay. The dairy and veal industry have a variety of practices.0 -
Not your mom, not your milk.0
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WishfulShrinking331 wrote: »Not your mom, not your milk.
Well tell my mom to crank her factories back up. I've got gains to make.9 -
WishfulShrinking331 wrote: »Not your mom, not your milk.
Not your dirt, not your lettuce?9 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »WishfulShrinking331 wrote: »Not your mom, not your milk.
Well tell my mom to crank her factories back up. I've got gains to make.
Lmao1 -
I have prostate cancer -- funny thing, no one's suggested since my diagnosis that I cut dairy out of my diet. But then, my doctors probably haven't been reading the right MFP approved blogs. The articles I have seen suggesting a link say LOTS of dairy MIGHT increase the risk of prostate cancer by a SMALL AMOUNT.
"American Cancer Society senior epidemiologist Marji McCullough, ScD, says the role of dairy and/or calcium in prostate cancer is still very much an open question."
Source: http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20051206/lots-of-dairy-linked-to-prostate-cancer?page=2
Regarding Dr. Bernard and his group (source of the original article): The National Council Against Health Fraud describes PCRM as, "a propaganda machine whose press conferences are charades for disguising its ideology as news events."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_D._Barnard
Sorry, I'll stick with my doctors' advice.
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WishfulShrinking331 wrote: »Not your mom, not your milk.
My mom isn't a cashew, almond or soybean either.8 -
WishfulShrinking331 wrote: »Not your mom, not your milk.
My mom isn't a cashew, almond or soybean either.
My mom was definitely a nut, though.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »WishfulShrinking331 wrote: »Not your mom, not your milk.
My mom isn't a cashew, almond or soybean either.
My mom was definitely a nut, though.
"Thank you, try the veal! And please remember to tip your waitress!"
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »WishfulShrinking331 wrote: »Not your mom, not your milk.
Well tell my mom to crank her factories back up. I've got gains to make.
This is the best thing I've read all day LOL. Of course, I don't know what that says about my day. 3
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