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Is dairy good or bad?

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Replies

  • Ruatine
    Ruatine Posts: 3,424 Member
    Y'all realize that guy is a troll, right?
  • BillMcKay1
    BillMcKay1 Posts: 315 Member
    brichards_ wrote: »
    Dairy is bad. It can cause acne, and does for me. It can also be a big cause of constipation and bloating. It depleats the body of calium and can cause cancer. Plus on an ethical side it's bad. It is high in fat and has cholesterol in it which your body doesn't need or want.

    Dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol aren't linked.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22037012
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,638 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    nisilap wrote: »
    To that point, I do like cheese and yogurt, but I have gone to almond milk as a substitute for cows milk. Humans are the only mammals that never wean themselves...cows don't drink milk once weaned, they eat plants. Actually, most dairy cows are not pasture raised at this time. They live in stalls so small that they cannot turn and must be perpetually impregnated so that they can produce milk continually. Not a good life

    So, other mammals make cheese and yogurt? I'm feeling a little confused by your stance on milk, but cheese and yogurt are okay.

    I had the exact same thought. I think it's bad logic re milk, but especially weird if one eats cheese, etc. (or cooked food, so on).

    It is unnatural that humans don't wean themselves, so they should and stop drinking human milk. Making foods out of stuff is a natural human instinct so making and eating cheese and yogurt makes sense. What's so hard to logic about that? Are you suggesting human food is unnatural, or are you suggesting people should be drinking human milk all their life?

    But humans do wean themselves from human milk in the vast majority of cases. Milking a cow is a process of procuring food using the tools they have access to, same as harvesting produce or butchering. When a predator kills a lactating mother eating the udder is part of the process of procuring food. They don't eat the flesh and skip the udder just because it contains milk and they are weaned. When pigs/chickens/dogs...etc are offered milk, they don't turn their noses up just because they are now adults. To them it's simply food (as it is to many humans).

    I find this logic a bit convoluted and reaching, but it's good enough for you who am I to argue? You have the right not to eat/drink whatever you choose and owe no one explanations, just don't expect it to make same sense to others as it does to you.

    You're arguing with a troll, so don't wrap yourself in knots as he likely feeds off of the angst produced by his soul-killing stupidity, if not actual human flesh and milk itself, on which he seems to have a peculiar fixation. To back up your note on predators, here is some charming information on how badgers avail themselves of tasty milk, even after they are weaned, from domestic sheep predation wiki:

    "Today the only wild animals remaining as a tangible threat to lambs in the British Isles are the red fox, badger, and predatory birds. ... If the neck and head of a lamb are still attached, and some or all of the organs consumed via biting a hole into the lower abdomen, but not much else, this is often a sign of badger predation. Often only the lamb's stomach is ravaged - badgers like to drink the milk inside."

    EVERY predator of mammals drinks milk--and relishes it--on a regular basis, because encumbered females and their nursing young are primary targets. People who claim otherwise are generally idiots when it comes to science. Man is the only animal to have found a way to get milk in a kinder, gentler manner than ripping out the stomach of a living baby lamb, colt or calf.

    But are humans natural predators?

    Have you ever read the daily headlines or picked up a history book? Or read up on archaeological findings? Humans are the most vicious and creative predators on the face of the earth, even against the most vicious and creative prey, also, coincidentally, humans. Fortunately we have elaborate social mechanism to keep some of this viciousness in check.

    Vicious doesn't make one a predator. Baboons eat few other animals as a percentage of their diet (particularly females), but they're certainly vicious, and making each others lives miserable is their specialty - displacement aggression is about 50% of their violence. Indeed, the biggest limit on baboon viciousness is they don't have the head space to plan out how to be more vicious.

    Well, yes. It's the meat eating part that makes one a predator, not the particular flair or energy with which you do it, whether you're an ape eating other members of your species that you would like to displace, or eating other species over which you have dominance, or eating bugs and termites, or just taking advantage of that tasty snack you found lying in the forest with the nice built-in bag of fermenting cheese. Mmm. No one ever said it has to be a certain percent of your diet.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,331 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    nisilap wrote: »
    To that point, I do like cheese and yogurt, but I have gone to almond milk as a substitute for cows milk. Humans are the only mammals that never wean themselves...cows don't drink milk once weaned, they eat plants. Actually, most dairy cows are not pasture raised at this time. They live in stalls so small that they cannot turn and must be perpetually impregnated so that they can produce milk continually. Not a good life

    So, other mammals make cheese and yogurt? I'm feeling a little confused by your stance on milk, but cheese and yogurt are okay.

    I had the exact same thought. I think it's bad logic re milk, but especially weird if one eats cheese, etc. (or cooked food, so on).

    It is unnatural that humans don't wean themselves, so they should and stop drinking human milk. Making foods out of stuff is a natural human instinct so making and eating cheese and yogurt makes sense. What's so hard to logic about that? Are you suggesting human food is unnatural, or are you suggesting people should be drinking human milk all their life?

    But humans do wean themselves from human milk in the vast majority of cases. Milking a cow is a process of procuring food using the tools they have access to, same as harvesting produce or butchering. When a predator kills a lactating mother eating the udder is part of the process of procuring food. They don't eat the flesh and skip the udder just because it contains milk and they are weaned. When pigs/chickens/dogs...etc are offered milk, they don't turn their noses up just because they are now adults. To them it's simply food (as it is to many humans).

    I find this logic a bit convoluted and reaching, but it's good enough for you who am I to argue? You have the right not to eat/drink whatever you choose and owe no one explanations, just don't expect it to make same sense to others as it does to you.

    You're arguing with a troll, so don't wrap yourself in knots as he likely feeds off of the angst produced by his soul-killing stupidity, if not actual human flesh and milk itself, on which he seems to have a peculiar fixation. To back up your note on predators, here is some charming information on how badgers avail themselves of tasty milk, even after they are weaned, from domestic sheep predation wiki:

    "Today the only wild animals remaining as a tangible threat to lambs in the British Isles are the red fox, badger, and predatory birds. ... If the neck and head of a lamb are still attached, and some or all of the organs consumed via biting a hole into the lower abdomen, but not much else, this is often a sign of badger predation. Often only the lamb's stomach is ravaged - badgers like to drink the milk inside."

    EVERY predator of mammals drinks milk--and relishes it--on a regular basis, because encumbered females and their nursing young are primary targets. People who claim otherwise are generally idiots when it comes to science. Man is the only animal to have found a way to get milk in a kinder, gentler manner than ripping out the stomach of a living baby lamb, colt or calf.

    Yep. I admit I fell for it. I refuse to believe someone's reading comprehension could be this poor, so the only other option is a troll.

    Case in point:
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    nisilap wrote: »
    To that point, I do like cheese and yogurt, but I have gone to almond milk as a substitute for cows milk. Humans are the only mammals that never wean themselves...cows don't drink milk once weaned, they eat plants. Actually, most dairy cows are not pasture raised at this time. They live in stalls so small that they cannot turn and must be perpetually impregnated so that they can produce milk continually. Not a good life

    So, other mammals make cheese and yogurt? I'm feeling a little confused by your stance on milk, but cheese and yogurt are okay.

    I had the exact same thought. I think it's bad logic re milk, but especially weird if one eats cheese, etc. (or cooked food, so on).

    It is unnatural that humans don't wean themselves, so they should and stop drinking human milk. Making foods out of stuff is a natural human instinct so making and eating cheese and yogurt makes sense. What's so hard to logic about that? Are you suggesting human food is unnatural, or are you suggesting people should be drinking human milk all their life?

    But humans do wean themselves from human milk in the vast majority of cases. Milking a cow is a process of procuring food using the tools they have access to, same as harvesting produce or butchering. When a predator kills a lactating mother eating the udder is part of the process of procuring food. They don't eat the flesh and skip the udder just because it contains milk and they are weaned. When pigs/chickens/dogs...etc are offered milk, they don't turn their noses up just because they are now adults. To them it's simply food (as it is to many humans).

    I find this logic a bit convoluted and reaching, but it's good enough for you who am I to argue? You have the right not to eat/drink whatever you choose and owe no one explanations, just don't expect it to make same sense to others as it does to you.

    You're arguing with a troll, so don't wrap yourself in knots as he likely feeds off of the angst produced by his soul-killing stupidity, if not actual human flesh and milk itself, on which he seems to have a peculiar fixation. To back up your note on predators, here is some charming information on how badgers avail themselves of tasty milk, even after they are weaned, from domestic sheep predation wiki:

    "Today the only wild animals remaining as a tangible threat to lambs in the British Isles are the red fox, badger, and predatory birds. ... If the neck and head of a lamb are still attached, and some or all of the organs consumed via biting a hole into the lower abdomen, but not much else, this is often a sign of badger predation. Often only the lamb's stomach is ravaged - badgers like to drink the milk inside."

    EVERY predator of mammals drinks milk--and relishes it--on a regular basis, because encumbered females and their nursing young are primary targets. People who claim otherwise are generally idiots when it comes to science. Man is the only animal to have found a way to get milk in a kinder, gentler manner than ripping out the stomach of a living baby lamb, colt or calf.

    But are humans natural predators?

    We are THE predator. When sharks and tigers develop thumbs, and the ability to engineer and produce super long distance killing devices, then we can worry about our place on the food chain.

    Sharks drink milk? I guess that's where the term nursing shark comes from.

    Wonder if being a troll is "natural".
  • Ruatine
    Ruatine Posts: 3,424 Member
    Don't worry. Lots of people have been going back and forth with him over the past week or so. Some of his comments are subtle enough not to trip people's troll meter, but then he goes and jumps the shark with comments like the one you quoted. I personally have him on ignore, so I don't have to suffer his inanity.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited August 2016
    According to the OED, a predator is an animal that preys upon another.

    Humans are animals.

    To prey means (among other things) to plunder, pillage, spoil, rob, ravage; to seize and kill; to kill and devour; to feed on. Also, to assert a baneful, wasting, destructive influence on; to kill gradually.

    Humans fit.

    We aren't carnivores, but we sure are predators.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,638 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    nisilap wrote: »
    To that point, I do like cheese and yogurt, but I have gone to almond milk as a substitute for cows milk. Humans are the only mammals that never wean themselves...cows don't drink milk once weaned, they eat plants. Actually, most dairy cows are not pasture raised at this time. They live in stalls so small that they cannot turn and must be perpetually impregnated so that they can produce milk continually. Not a good life

    So, other mammals make cheese and yogurt? I'm feeling a little confused by your stance on milk, but cheese and yogurt are okay.

    I had the exact same thought. I think it's bad logic re milk, but especially weird if one eats cheese, etc. (or cooked food, so on).

    It is unnatural that humans don't wean themselves, so they should and stop drinking human milk. Making foods out of stuff is a natural human instinct so making and eating cheese and yogurt makes sense. What's so hard to logic about that? Are you suggesting human food is unnatural, or are you suggesting people should be drinking human milk all their life?

    But humans do wean themselves from human milk in the vast majority of cases. Milking a cow is a process of procuring food using the tools they have access to, same as harvesting produce or butchering. When a predator kills a lactating mother eating the udder is part of the process of procuring food. They don't eat the flesh and skip the udder just because it contains milk and they are weaned. When pigs/chickens/dogs...etc are offered milk, they don't turn their noses up just because they are now adults. To them it's simply food (as it is to many humans).

    I find this logic a bit convoluted and reaching, but it's good enough for you who am I to argue? You have the right not to eat/drink whatever you choose and owe no one explanations, just don't expect it to make same sense to others as it does to you.

    You're arguing with a troll, so don't wrap yourself in knots as he likely feeds off of the angst produced by his soul-killing stupidity, if not actual human flesh and milk itself, on which he seems to have a peculiar fixation. To back up your note on predators, here is some charming information on how badgers avail themselves of tasty milk, even after they are weaned, from domestic sheep predation wiki:

    "Today the only wild animals remaining as a tangible threat to lambs in the British Isles are the red fox, badger, and predatory birds. ... If the neck and head of a lamb are still attached, and some or all of the organs consumed via biting a hole into the lower abdomen, but not much else, this is often a sign of badger predation. Often only the lamb's stomach is ravaged - badgers like to drink the milk inside."

    EVERY predator of mammals drinks milk--and relishes it--on a regular basis, because encumbered females and their nursing young are primary targets. People who claim otherwise are generally idiots when it comes to science. Man is the only animal to have found a way to get milk in a kinder, gentler manner than ripping out the stomach of a living baby lamb, colt or calf.

    But are humans natural predators?

    Have you ever read the daily headlines or picked up a history book? Or read up on archaeological findings? Humans are the most vicious and creative predators on the face of the earth, even against the most vicious and creative prey, also, coincidentally, humans. Fortunately we have elaborate social mechanism to keep some of this viciousness in check.

    Vicious doesn't make one a predator. Baboons eat few other animals as a percentage of their diet (particularly females), but they're certainly vicious, and making each others lives miserable is their specialty - displacement aggression is about 50% of their violence. Indeed, the biggest limit on baboon viciousness is they don't have the head space to plan out how to be more vicious.

    Well, yes. It's the meat eating part that makes one a predator, not the particular flair or energy with which you do it, whether you're an ape eating other members of your species that you would like to displace, or eating other species over which you have dominance, or eating bugs and termites, or just taking advantage of that tasty snack you found lying in the forest with the nice built-in bag of fermenting cheese. Mmm. No one ever said it has to be a certain percent of your diet.

    Well... it does. You'd call baboons carnivores or predators? They'd much more likely be considered prey and frugivores when being classified. The terms are based on majorities of diets.
    You can find deer that eat eggs when pressed. Would you seriously call a deer a carnivorous predator?

    I would call baboons and most other apes omnivores. I would call deer, or my daughter's horse who enjoys a Slim Jim from time to time, herbivores. I know it's easier to think in terms of dichotomies, like a child, but nature actually has more shades of gray.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,638 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    According to the OED, a predator is an animal that preys upon another.

    Humans are animals.

    To prey means (among other things) to plunder, pillage, spoil, rob, ravage; to seize and kill; to kill and devour; to feed on. Also, to assert a baneful, wasting, destructive influence on; to kill gradually.

    Humans fit.

    We aren't carnivores, but we sure are predators.

    Maybe if you eat spoiled food. I don't.

    LOL. That one took me a minute.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited August 2016
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    According to the OED, a predator is an animal that preys upon another.

    Humans are animals.

    To prey means (among other things) to plunder, pillage, spoil, rob, ravage; to seize and kill; to kill and devour; to feed on. Also, to assert a baneful, wasting, destructive influence on; to kill gradually.

    Humans fit.

    We aren't carnivores, but we sure are predators.

    Maybe if you eat spoiled food. I don't.

    LOL. That one took me a minute.

    I wonder if he ever had to read Pope and was troubled because he would not have non consensual sexual intercourse with that thing you put on the door so that people can't get in without a key.
  • rebel_26
    rebel_26 Posts: 1,826 Member
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  • htimpaired
    htimpaired Posts: 1,404 Member
    This report combines the findings of over 400 scientific papers from reputable peer-reviewed journals such as the British Medical Journal and the Lancet. The research is clear – the consumption of cow’s milk and dairy products is linked to the development of teenage acne, allergies, arthritis, some cancers, colic, constipation, coronary heart disease, Crohn’s disease, diabetes, dementia, ear infection, food poisoning, gallstones, kidney disease, migraine, autoimmune conditions, including multiple sclerosis, overweight, obesity and osteoporosis

    http://www.whitelies.org.uk/sites/default/files/milkmyths/White Lies report 2014.pdf

    Also linked to these illnesses-BEING HUMAN AND ALIVE.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,313 Member
    htimpaired wrote: »
    This report combines the findings of over 400 scientific papers from reputable peer-reviewed journals such as the British Medical Journal and the Lancet. The research is clear – the consumption of cow’s milk and dairy products is linked to the development of teenage acne, allergies, arthritis, some cancers, colic, constipation, coronary heart disease, Crohn’s disease, diabetes, dementia, ear infection, food poisoning, gallstones, kidney disease, migraine, autoimmune conditions, including multiple sclerosis, overweight, obesity and osteoporosis

    http://www.whitelies.org.uk/sites/default/files/milkmyths/White Lies report 2014.pdf

    Also linked to these illnesses-BEING HUMAN AND ALIVE.

    And in all of those studies what they actually have is correlation (which is not the same thing as causation). None of the studies can account for outside factors (such as environment, other foods consumed, lifestyle choices, etc) that could have also contributed to any of the things that they are directly attributing to the consumption of dairy products.
  • stephanieluvspb
    stephanieluvspb Posts: 997 Member
    Ruatine wrote: »
    Don't worry. Lots of people have been going back and forth with him over the past week or so. Some of his comments are subtle enough not to trip people's troll meter, but then he goes and jumps the shark with comments like the one you quoted. I personally have him on ignore, so I don't have to suffer his inanity.

    Yes, I think we should all exercise our right to use the ignore button on this one :)
  • bvttslvt
    bvttslvt Posts: 5 Member
    Well considering its baby cow growth formula...not good for you know...people who aren't literal cows
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    bvttslvt wrote: »
    Well considering its baby cow growth formula...not good for you know...people who aren't literal cows

    Eat more chikin
  • cerise_noir
    cerise_noir Posts: 5,468 Member
    Ruatine wrote: »
    Y'all realize that guy is a troll, right?
    Of course.
    Don't milk the troll.