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singingflutelady wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
I understand a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients and satiety, that I undersand.
But you are saying that the ability/inability to absorb certain nutrients can cause CICO not to work?
I've suffered malabsorption and maintained while eating a high number of calories but it was still cico because, as I said, I wasn't absorbing all the calories so those calories I didn't absorb didn't count as CI.
I can see that but does it work in the reverse?
Meaning can you absorb or not absorb a nutrient in a deficit and not lose? Seems like if you have an malabsorption issue it would just go to waste.
You can never absorb more calories than are in the things you ate. The actual calorie count of what you've been putting in your mouth is the hard upper limit to the energy available to your body.
And people are really good at absorbing those calories, like really good. I don't want to go looking for the poop study again but I can assure you that in the worst case scenario of gut microbes, they still absorbed 90%, and at most close to 99%.0 -
When you've got a bit of time, i'd be interested to hear what you think of this @Helloitsdan
https://mosaicscience.com/story/why-calorie-broken0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
What have micronutrients to do with fat loss?
Car analogy coming...
You give the engine the proper care and it works better than if you didn't.
Look at all the deficiencies in the US population from eating the SAD.
Vitamin D, K2, magnesium, zinc....
A body getting fewer nutrients will crave more energy as well.0 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
What have micronutrients to do with fat loss?
Car analogy coming...
You give the engine the proper care and it works better than if you didn't.
Look at all the deficiencies in the US population from eating the SAD.
Vitamin D, K2, magnesium, zinc....
A body getting fewer nutrients will crave more energy as well.
What your body "craves" doesn't have to be what you choose to put into it.
https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/4Page_ 2nd Nutrition Report_508_032912.pdf
Also nutritional deficiencies aren't as common as you may believe. Apart from Vit D, none of the things you mentioned even made the list here that starts at 1% of the population having it.
Of course, certain websites want you to believe that everyone and their grandma has some sort of deficiency that you immediately have to get in check and they just so happen to have the cure for your ailment right there.7 -
Exactly if you are hungrier because of medical, emotional, stress related, hormonal reasons and you eat more, that doesn't nullify CICO.
It just means if you have the above issues you are hungrier and it may be more difficult to stay within a deficit.
So instead of saying "its complex" the conversation should go something like this?
Pro - It boils down to CICO
Me - But I'm not losing weight
Pro - Are you measuring/weighing food?
Me - Mostly
Pro - Could you tighten that up because it boils down to CICO?
Me - Sure, But I can't sleep at night and I'm always hungry.
Pro - Ah see stress hormones make you hungrier so you need to try to alleviate some stress but it boils down to CICO.
Me - Ok thanks. I also have hormonal issues.
Pro - I see, well again this may make you feel hungrier. Lets play with your macros and see if we can find the sweet spot of satiation, because it boils down to CICO.
I'm excluding eating disorders because thats a different situation. I can see some psychological reasons where one would not want to actually count calories because of OCD etc. But it still doesn't negate CICO.
It seems all you are saying is that CICO is more complex in that there are factors that make it hard to control CI.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
What have micronutrients to do with fat loss?
Car analogy coming...
You give the engine the proper care and it works better than if you didn't.
Look at all the deficiencies in the US population from eating the SAD.
Vitamin D, K2, magnesium, zinc....
A body getting fewer nutrients will crave more energy as well.
What your body "craves" doesn't have to be what you choose to put into it.
https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/4Page_ 2nd Nutrition Report_508_032912.pdf
Also nutritional deficiencies aren't as common as you may believe. Apart from Vit D, none of the things you mentioned even made the list here that starts at 1% of the population having it.
Of course, certain websites want you to believe that everyone and their grandma has some sort of deficiency that you immediately have to get in check and they just so happen to have the cure for your ailment right there.
Wow Steven thanks for this. I'm taught to have clients taking multivitamins and omega 3 supplementation when changing habits and trying to live a healthier life. It's a good insurance plan and the Omega 3 does have a good amount of literature on weight loss.
Thanks for this insight. It's much appreciated.0 -
Just popped into my feed
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/stop-vitamin-d1 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »Just popped into my feed
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/stop-vitamin-d
Why on earth would I stop taking a supplement my doctor has verified I was deficient in??1 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »Just popped into my feed
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/stop-vitamin-d
Why on earth would I stop taking a supplement my doctor has verified I was deficient in??
I never said stop taking Vitamin D.
Did you read this article?0 -
@johunt615 I know exactly what you mean and I did the same as you
Just accepted CICO as an overriding concept. There are factors that are personal but is it affecting the numbers in my CICO? Anything else is minutiae and the basis for excuse driven failure to me
This thread appears to be an advertorial, I wouldn't worry unduly about information that appears biased. Try to compartmentalise it7 -
You are quoting Precion Nutrition for all responses. Do you have any other studies Peer reviewed?
I noted for your response to me you didn't address the questions, but provided links to the PN site that you should have known I was aware of from my post.
Please back up your advice with studies and reviews that are pertinent to a posters question rather than giving the one sided Precicion Nutrition view.
Critical thinking.
Cheers, h.9 -
middlehaitch wrote: »You are quoting Precion Nutrition for all responses. Do you have any other studies Peer reviewed?
I noted for your response to me you didn't address the questions, but provided links to the PN site that you should have known I was aware of from my post.
Please back up your advice with studies and reviews that are pertinent to a posters question rather than giving the one sided Precicion Nutrition view.
Critical thinking.
Cheers, h.
I haven't quoted PN for every response.
Studies for what exactly?
You asked "Sorry if I have missed this else where, but I have noticed references to Precision Nutrition a couple of times in your recent posts. Are you a PN Coach?"
Yes. I'm working on my PN Cert.
"If not is there another calorie portioning, instead of counting, site that you could recommend that one doesn't have to pay for or does the free introductory pack PN offers cover portion control?"
Okay so you asked if I'm a PN coach. Answered.
The only other system I've used for portion control is Georgie Fears Lean Habits but you've asked for free resources. Her book is $20+.
You then said "Please back up your advice with studies and reviews that are pertinent to a posters question rather than giving the one sided Precicion Nutrition view.
Critical thinking. "
Can you be more specific? I've only posted a couple PN links. How is that one sided? After unpacking your question again, I've covered everything you've asked for. @middlehaitch1 -
Weight loss tips ? Superfoods?0
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How do I get started on losing weight?
I have no motivation to lose weight but I know that I need to. What should I do?0 -
fatty2sixpack wrote: »How do I get started on losing weight?
I have no motivation to lose weight but I know that I need to. What should I do?
Without any motivation, I'm afraid your failure rate is going to be pretty high. Knowing you need to lose weight is one thing - actually doing what it takes to make that happen is quite another. And no one can really motivate you - it has to come from within, from really wanting it.
When you're ready to do this, making small changes will be your best bet. Eat the foods you love, but just eat less of them. And move more - even if it starts out as just walking around the corner or around the block. Build up your exercise gradually, while decreasing the amount you eat at the same time.
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