Protein, Protein, Protein -enough Protein
Moby_Dick
Posts: 26 Member
It's like an epidemic. Of course, we need protein, it's essential for our health, it's used to build muscles, hair, and nails. I think the typical American diet contains enough protein. We eat meat, fish, and eggs with every meal.
I am not a bodybuilder, neither am I an active athlete. I am just a fat woman trying to lose weight.
People's comments on the protein intake here are humorous. "Good day, enough protein." Really?
If I decide to have a meatless day and eat veggies only -like we did when I was a child, then it's not a good day?
Weight loss comes from counting calories, so I will lose weight when I eat 1200 calories of vegetable stew, won't I?
Years ago a study showed that we all lose weight faster if we don't combine carbs with protein. So instead of the protein epidemic, people ate protein alone for one meal, then carbs and fiber for the next meal, the results were similar to the Atkins diet and all the other diets that are copycats like Paleo and Southbeach.
Isn't too much protein unhealthy and can even be harmful to our body? (Liver and Kidney)
I am not a bodybuilder, neither am I an active athlete. I am just a fat woman trying to lose weight.
People's comments on the protein intake here are humorous. "Good day, enough protein." Really?
If I decide to have a meatless day and eat veggies only -like we did when I was a child, then it's not a good day?
Weight loss comes from counting calories, so I will lose weight when I eat 1200 calories of vegetable stew, won't I?
Years ago a study showed that we all lose weight faster if we don't combine carbs with protein. So instead of the protein epidemic, people ate protein alone for one meal, then carbs and fiber for the next meal, the results were similar to the Atkins diet and all the other diets that are copycats like Paleo and Southbeach.
Isn't too much protein unhealthy and can even be harmful to our body? (Liver and Kidney)
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Replies
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I guess the question is what do you want to lose? Do you mind losing muscle as well as fat? If you want to be healthy while you lose, protein is important. So is working out (lifting something and some cardio).
Not everyone gets all the protein they need. I often supplement my diet with a whey shake. I am also training for long distance races as well as lifting. I am not trying to lose but the same concept applies. BTW - I'm targeting about 100 grams a day. I do not eat meat, fish, and eggs at every meal.
Also, one study does not make it a fact. It has to be replicated with the same results. However, I'd be interested in the study you mentioned. Can you provide a link?8 -
There's a million or so people who've commented on the community pages here. Which of them are you hoping will see your soliloquy?3
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »There's a million or so people who've commented on the community pages here. Which of them are you hoping will see your soliloquy?
A Nutritionist of course, or any other expert here on the board. A doctor, a biochemist who specializes in the effect of nutrition on long-term health. Someone who knows more than we do.
There are people out there who eat cotton balls and guess what, they lose weight. That doesn't make it right, neither is it healthy.
Are experts here at MFP or do we all just follow blindly guidelines without asking questions?
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I guess the question is what do you want to lose? Do you mind losing muscle as well as fat? If you want to be healthy while you lose, protein is important. So is working out (lifting something and some cardio).
Not everyone gets all the protein they need. I often supplement my diet with a whey shake. I am also training for long distance races as well as lifting. I am not trying to lose but the same concept applies. BTW - I'm targeting about 100 grams a day. I do not eat meat, fish, and eggs at every meal.
Also, one study does not make it a fact. It has to be replicated with the same results. However, I'd be interested in the study you mentioned. Can you provide a link?
There are numerous studies out there. Search it, and you will find them yourself. To be honest, there are more than I could list here. The proprotein studies are often paid studies and ads from companies who try to sell their products or their diets. We all have the research at our fingertips.
I want to lose weight and gain health. I am not interested in building muscles; that's why the protein intake is an issue.
I think protein is very important if you train for a marathon or like you, for long distant races, but I don't have to eat the same way if I "just" want to lose weight.
Am not sure if I am allowed to post links here or if I will get flagged. I will send you some in a message tomorrow.
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Post links. You mentioned the study, please provide the link. I am not going to search to prove what you said. Thank you.10
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This is a community forum for a fitness company, not a medical publication house.Are experts here at MFP or do we all just follow blindly guidelines without asking questions?
As for guidelines, they didn't pop up out of thin air. There have been numerous medical studies over the years by many government and non-government scientists. As with all science, nothing is set in stone. New evidence leads scientists in new directions.
Protein amounts recommended by the US government are supposed to be enough protein to cover 98% of everyone. However, some are suggesting that some people benefit from more protein. How much more? That's the big question.
I'll repost what I usually answer for the protein question:
The RDA for adequate protein for most adults is 0.8 grams per kilogram of ideal weight. That's about 46 grams of protein per day for non-pregnant, non-lactating women and 56 grams for men.
Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients
The recommendation I've seen for optimal protein (especially if body building or losing weight) is 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass or 0.8 grams per pound of your ideal weight (middle of normal BMI).
Personally, I aim for about 70 grams per day which falls between adequate and optimal but works for me.7 -
BTW- I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm here to learn as well.3
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Can I have your protein then?16
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Protein isn't just for muscle gain... to gain muscle, one must eat more calories than they need to maintain weight and do a progressive heavy lifting program.I want to lose weight and gain health. I am not interested in building muscles; that's why the protein intake is an issue.
I eat protien and am losing weight. Why? To preserve and minimise my muscles/lean mass. I want to look good when I am at goal, not just a smaller flabbier version of what I used to be. I do both cardio and weights, but am in a deficit, so my main goal is fat loss. Also, protein is very satiating. Protein is also very important for cell repair, bone health, skin and hair health, organ health and for the central nervous system.16 -
I never eat meat and yet still get plenty of protein (looking back at this week, 125-140g on 1600-1800 cals). There are plenty of non-meat, and non-animal, sources of protein (though, I did eat 6 eggs today, they were delicious). I make it a priority because I want to preserve lean body mass when I'm in a deficit (and at maintenance for that matter). It's not just about building muscle (which as others have said, you generally need to be eating at a surplus to do anyway), it's about holding on to what you already have. Personally, I really don't want to be skinny fat. Ick. Plus all the other bodily functions that Cerise lists above that protein is needed for.
Yes, weight loss comes down to calories in vs calories out. But macro- and micro-nutrients shouldn't be ignored for good health. If you care about more than just weight loss you may want to do some more reading on this (as many of us have, contrary to your suggestion that we are all just blindly following guidelines).
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When dieting protein is more important than when trying to build muscle. When you are in a calorie deficit you don't just lose fat, you also lose lean body mass (muscle is included in this). Losing muscle is NOT a good thing so intaking sufficient protein (0.8g/lb) is a good plan to avoid catabolism.9
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My take is...
Protein to maintain health in the average, normal BW individual is one thing. If you are attempting to lose weight, add in a bit extra to counter the muscle loss when in caloric restriction. If you're middle aged or above add in a bit more, studies show increased protein gives better long term health markers in old age. If you're doing any type of exercise add in a bit more to ensure adequate to repair the lean body mass damage (and a bit more if that exercise is strength based).10 -
I'm a vegetarian.
I ate a lot of protein while I was losing weight because I was concerned about my lean mass when I was done losing weight.
I wanted to preserve muscle so it didn't adversely affect my metabolic rate at my goal weight when I was done dieting. That is why protein is important, especially for dieters. Dieters need a higher protein intake than average people.
If you're not concerned about that, do your own thing and face the consequences. There are plenty of studies on the effects of metabolic adaptation and the effects of dieting on metabolism. Most of those people in those studies dieted without exercise and adequate protein intake. See the results for yourself.9 -
cerise_noir wrote: »
Protein isn't just for muscle gain... to gain muscle, one must eat more calories than they need to maintain weight and do a progressive heavy lifting program.I want to lose weight and gain health. I am not interested in building muscles; that's why the protein intake is an issue.
I eat protien and am losing weight. Why? To preserve and minimise my muscles/lean mass. I want to look good when I am at goal, not just a smaller flabbier version of what I used to be. I do both cardio and weights, but am in a deficit, so my main goal is fat loss. Also, protein is very satiating. Protein is also very important for cell repair, bone health, skin and hair health, organ health and for the central nervous system.trigden1991 wrote: »When dieting protein is more important than when trying to build muscle. When you are in a calorie deficit you don't just lose fat, you also lose lean body mass (muscle is included in this). Losing muscle is NOT a good thing so intaking sufficient protein (0.8g/lb) is a good plan to avoid catabolism.
BOTH OF THESE!
Its not necessarily about gaining muscle, rather "not losing" muscle.
Something I didnt realise/pay heed to when I was losing weight.
I went with a straight CICO approach paying no mind to macros, dropped the lbs I wanted, and when I had finished was the very definition of "skinnyfat" and wasnt happy with myself at all.
I am a stocky build, and at that point realised I had lost a lot of muscle and it wasnt a good look for me. I actually felt weak, as well as fat/podgy.
That was nearly 2 years ago. I spent the first year getting back to ground zero muscle wise. And now the second actually bulking up a bit, something I am very happy with - but that is my preference and obviously may not be yours.
Point being, had I known about taking in enough protein, I would likely have been a hell of a lot happier with myself 2 years ago upon reaching my goal, and would be a lot further along the road to my new goals now than I am today.
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Protein is one of the largest studied things in the diet industry. If you are dieting, it's even more important than if you are in weight maintenance or gaining weight. Objectively, most people want fat loss... not just weight loss. Decrease in body fat % is what makes a big impact on reductions in clothing size and how you look. If you maintain your muscle, not only do you maintain your metabolic functions (which means you burn more calories which makes maintenance easier), it also means you will accelerate the time to hit your ideal look. Heck, I can't tell you how many times people come into the gaining weight section because they aggressively cut calories, lost a lot of muscle, they are underweight and still have issues with their thighs, stomach or other areas. Now they have to spend another year to fix their poor weight loss results.Lets also take into consideration a stronger body is more resistant and less prone to injury.
But i digress, below are some good studies and information on protein for those who are interested.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/apnm-2015-0549
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10334013/protein-intake-for-highly-trained-natural-weight-lifters-during-caloric-deficit/p1
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When I started logging here (I'm trying to gain weight) I realised I wasn't eating anything like enough protein.
Now I'm eating more protein I can't say I've noticed much difference in the way of strength or muscle gain (I know that protein alone won't achieve that) but,as a nice side effect I'm sleeping better,have more energy and my skin is better. Just saying
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comptonelizabeth wrote: »When I started logging here (I'm trying to gain weight) I realised I wasn't eating anything like enough protein.
Now I'm eating more protein I can't say I've noticed much difference in the way of strength or muscle gain (I know that protein alone won't achieve that) but,as a nice side effect I'm sleeping better,have more energy and my skin is better. Just saying
Well protein provides the fuel for the car, but lifting is the vehicle. Soo....
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Another thing about protein!
I'm a woman of "a certain age". Studies are showing that protein should be higher for older folks because sarcopenia is nasty.
If you're older and dieting? Bad idea not taking in extra protein.10 -
It's like an epidemic. Of course, we need protein, it's essential for our health, it's used to build muscles, hair, and nails. I think the typical American diet contains enough protein. We eat meat, fish, and eggs with every meal.
I am not a bodybuilder, neither am I an active athlete. I am just a fat woman trying to lose weight.
People's comments on the protein intake here are humorous. "Good day, enough protein." Really?
If I decide to have a meatless day and eat veggies only -like we did when I was a child, then it's not a good day?
Weight loss comes from counting calories, so I will lose weight when I eat 1200 calories of vegetable stew, won't I?
Years ago a study showed that we all lose weight faster if we don't combine carbs with protein. So instead of the protein epidemic, people ate protein alone for one meal, then carbs and fiber for the next meal, the results were similar to the Atkins diet and all the other diets that are copycats like Paleo and Southbeach.
Isn't too much protein unhealthy and can even be harmful to our body? (Liver and Kidney)
I'm several years into maintenance now and I've never paid attention to macros ratios. My protein intake falls where it falls, but when I spot check I seem to hit above what's recommended (not MFP's number, but going by this https://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/interactiveDRI/ ). Just checked my last 3 'spot check' days and I had 49g, 56g and 63g of protein. Right on target or a little above where I should be.0 -
Protein is essential for muscle repair/growth. I know myself if I lack protein intake in any day I have a lack of energy (any exercise seems harder to do) and I feel hungrier.6
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »There's a million or so people who've commented on the community pages here. Which of them are you hoping will see your soliloquy?
A Nutritionist of course, or any other expert here on the board. A doctor, a biochemist who specializes in the effect of nutrition on long-term health. Someone who knows more than we do.
There are people out there who eat cotton balls and guess what, they lose weight. That doesn't make it right, neither is it healthy.
Are experts here at MFP or do we all just follow blindly guidelines without asking questions?
FYI - A Nutritionist is not an expert. Most 'degrees' can be gotten online in a weekend. Anyone can just call themselves a Nutritionist because there are no standards or regulations.
If it's nutritional advice you're after, a Registered Dietician (who actually has a degree) is a far better bet.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Another thing about protein!
I'm a woman of "a certain age". Studies are showing that protein should be higher for older folks because sarcopenia is nasty.
If you're older and dieting? Bad idea not taking in extra protein.
My "certain age" is older than your "certain age" lol, but that's an excellent point.
My daily intake usually falls between 100g-150g. If I'm not going to make that number I supplement with a powder. Highly recommended OP.2 -
Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
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Can I have your protein then?
LOL, ok so one of the people she wants finally comments and I'm sensing you, like me, find it rather amusing. I also think I know what she's talking about with the carb-protein combo and that's pseudo-science, which is why she isn't linking any studies.
Also, she forgot about the role of protein in the immune system and hormones, which are a tad more important than hair, nails, and muscle.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Another thing about protein!
I'm a woman of "a certain age". Studies are showing that protein should be higher for older folks because sarcopenia is nasty.
If you're older and dieting? Bad idea not taking in extra protein.
My "certain age" is older than your "certain age" lol, but that's an excellent point.
My daily intake usually falls between 100g-150g. If I'm not going to make that number I supplement with a powder. Highly recommended OP.
That's right where my protein intake is too.0 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
MFP is based off of percentage of total calories rather than grams. Also, to point out, the RDA is more of a minimum, rather than optimal. There are multiple studies point out the flaws with the RDA. Ironically, MFP is probably closer to what you should be aiming for.4 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
Mine does the same. mfp recommends for my TDEE, not my deficit. I go by the total consumed rather than trying to hit the recommended metric. My discrepancy isn't nearly as large as yours though, only 21g difference.1 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
MFP is based off of percentage of total calories rather than grams. Also, to point out, the RDA is more of a minimum, rather than optimal. There are multiple studies point out the flaws with the RDA. Ironically, MFP is probably closer to what you should be aiming for.
Good to know, thanks! I keep saying I don't want to mess with macros, but then I get sucked into threads like this one and spend the morning playing around with macros ratios lol. It is kind of interesting to see how the numbers all break down So, if I was to track protein intake, then I should aim for 47g as the minimum but then try to get a bit higher (up to that 94g)?
edit for grammar-need more caffeine lol
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crzycatlady1 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
MFP is based off of percentage of total calories rather than grams. Also, to point out, the RDA is more of a minimum, rather than optimal. There are multiple studies point out the flaws with the RDA. Ironically, MFP is probably closer to what you should be aiming for.
Good to know, thanks! I keep saying I don't want to mess with macros, but then I get sucked into threads like this one and spend the morning playing around with macros ratios lol. It is kind of interesting to see how the numbers all break down So, if I was to track protein intake, then I should aim for 47g as the minimum but then aim for getting in a bit higher (up to that 94g)?
In general, you should be aiming for 1.5-2.2g/kg of mass. The higher end tends to be when you are in weight loss or lean.
Even if you had excessive protein, your body would convert the leftover to glucose.0 -
i am doing low carb high fat. that means "moderate" protein. Based on what i read and my goals (I am trying to get down to 220 pounds from 355.) I try to get 117 gr of fats, 100 gr of protein and 20 gr or less of carbs. I started in January and have lost 115 pounds without exercise.2
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