Which lifting program is the best for you?
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Thoughts about Conjugate Method? Haven't seen that mentioned (probably because no one uses it...? ha....)
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TresaAswegan wrote: »Thoughts about Conjugate Method? Haven't seen that mentioned (probably because no one uses it...? ha....)
It is described and critiqued under the "PowerLifting Programs" link.0 -
TresaAswegan wrote: »Thoughts about Conjugate Method? Haven't seen that mentioned (probably because no one uses it...? ha....)
It is described and critiqued under the "PowerLifting Programs" link.
I looked at that before posting. Just curious if anyone had tried it as not everyone would agree.
Also I'm not talking "Westside" specifically, there are a lot different ways to run a Conjugate based program that is very different than the way they run it at Westside. I guess that's in the description.. but anyway.. Curious if anyone here has tried it.0 -
Most of his issues with the "specificity" of Conjugate are totally opposite of how what I was taught, which is basically that every single rep/set/exercise you do is selected specifically to work on what you need to improve.
You can do paused bench for everything if you want to, you don't HAVE to squat to a box ever, I deadlift 1-2x a week, bands/chains are optional for everything.1 -
TresaAswegan wrote: »Most of his issues with the "specificity" of Conjugate are totally opposite of how what I was taught, which is basically that every single rep/set/exercise you do is selected specifically to work on what you need to improve.
You can do paused bench for everything if you want to, you don't HAVE to squat to a box ever, I deadlift 1-2x a week, bands/chains are optional for everything.
Here is a good video with Matt Wenning talking to Chad on Conjugate. One thing that sticks out, is his talking about this method working really well for people who have a lot of time under the bar having mastered the main movements before utilizing this style of programming due to the variability of exercises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdOfNhF43oQ
Also, just for added viewing, another good one on WestSide by Chad Wesley Smith and Dr. Mike Israetel, but I think the information is still good info to have in their (West Side and Conjugate) comparison due to exercise selection between the two due to equipped lifting and the critique of that program style system as a whole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXxwK7MYr30
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TresaAswegan wrote: »Most of his issues with the "specificity" of Conjugate are totally opposite of how what I was taught, which is basically that every single rep/set/exercise you do is selected specifically to work on what you need to improve.
You can do paused bench for everything if you want to, you don't HAVE to squat to a box ever, I deadlift 1-2x a week, bands/chains are optional for everything.
Here is a good video with Matt Wenning talking to Chad on Conjugate. One thing that sticks out, is his talking about this method working really well for people who have a lot of time under the bar having mastered the main movements before utilizing this style of programming due to the variability of exercises.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdOfNhF43oQ
Also, just for added viewing, another good one on WestSide by Chad Wesley Smith and Dr. Mike Israetel, but I think the information is still good info to have in their (West Side and Conjugate) comparison due to exercise selection between the two due to equipped lifting and the critique of that program style system as a whole.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXxwK7MYr30
Thanks for the response and links. Good videos, Matt's take on Conjugate actually reaffirmed a lot of ideas my training is based on. Nice to hear opinions from people who have actually trained that way.
As Chad and Mike mentioned, making major changes to Westside makes it no longer Westside of course. I definitely do not train Westside, I would call it more of a Conjugate variation.
Added 20 lbs to my deadlift from my first 4 week cycle, so I'm excited to continue with it and see what happens the next few months.1 -
Hey, are there lifting programs you would recommend for someone mainly looking to improve forearms, abs, and legs? I think I am still a beginner. I've been working out at the gym for a few months but I think I could use a new routine.1
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Steelpit202 wrote: »Hey, are there lifting programs you would recommend for someone mainly looking to improve forearms, abs, and legs? I think I am still a beginner. I've been working out at the gym for a few months but I think I could use a new routine.
Abs will improve with lower body fat levels. But all compound lifts would engage those muscles. Liftinf big things will improve your forearms. StrongCurves is the butt program essentially. And while all beginner programs use squat, SC has more focus.0 -
Does anyone have any opinions/thoughts on a 5 day PPL variation? My initial thoughts are to set it up as follows;
Push
Pull
Legs
Rest
Upper
Lower
Rest
The goal will be hypertrophy with a secondary focus on strength.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »Does anyone have any opinions/thoughts on a 5 day PPL variation? My initial thoughts are to set it up as follows;
Push
Pull
Legs
Rest
Upper
Lower
Rest
The goal will be hypertrophy with a secondary focus on strength.
While it's not P/P/L have you considered PHAT? It's a power and hypertrophy program.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »Does anyone have any opinions/thoughts on a 5 day PPL variation? My initial thoughts are to set it up as follows;
Push
Pull
Legs
Rest
Upper
Lower
Rest
The goal will be hypertrophy with a secondary focus on strength.
Totally fine, but I think you can come up with a ton of possible ways to adjust frequency and make it successful. Since we can even do things like full body 6 days/week, you can absolutely do the above and be successful with it.
I think what's more important here (and with most programs) is how you distribute volume across the week and how you progress throughout the mesocycle.
What I'm getting at here (I totally don't mean to sound like a prick here either) is that all we see here is a list of days. It could literally say "full body" every day and I would still answer "yes this is possible to be very successful" depending on how the acute variables are managed across the week.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »Does anyone have any opinions/thoughts on a 5 day PPL variation? My initial thoughts are to set it up as follows;
Push
Pull
Legs
Rest
Upper
Lower
Rest
The goal will be hypertrophy with a secondary focus on strength.
Totally fine, but I think you can come up with a ton of possible ways to adjust frequency and make it successful. Since we can even do things like full body 6 days/week, you can absolutely do the above and be successful with it.
I think what's more important here (and with most programs) is how you distribute volume across the week and how you progress throughout the mesocycle.
What I'm getting at here (I totally don't mean to sound like a prick here either) is that all we see here is a list of days. It could literally say "full body" every day and I would still answer "yes this is possible to be very successful" depending on how the acute variables are managed across the week.
Thanks for the response. I was going to post my full plan with exercises and reps but thought I'd get an initial response before posting up my thoughts.
If you could expand on the bolded, it would be greatly appreciated. I get the general concept but have been a proponent of the bro-split for way too long now.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »Does anyone have any opinions/thoughts on a 5 day PPL variation? My initial thoughts are to set it up as follows;
Push
Pull
Legs
Rest
Upper
Lower
Rest
The goal will be hypertrophy with a secondary focus on strength.
Totally fine, but I think you can come up with a ton of possible ways to adjust frequency and make it successful. Since we can even do things like full body 6 days/week, you can absolutely do the above and be successful with it.
I think what's more important here (and with most programs) is how you distribute volume across the week and how you progress throughout the mesocycle.
What I'm getting at here (I totally don't mean to sound like a prick here either) is that all we see here is a list of days. It could literally say "full body" every day and I would still answer "yes this is possible to be very successful" depending on how the acute variables are managed across the week.
Thanks for the response. I was going to post my full plan with exercises and reps but thought I'd get an initial response before posting up my thoughts.
If you could expand on the bolded, it would be greatly appreciated. I get the general concept but have been a proponent of the bro-split for way too long now.
Additional training days can be beneficial in that they allow you an opportunity to distribute volume. So for example if you train 2 days of full body per week you have 2 days to accumulate weekly volume. If you do 3 full body days per week, you have an additional day to take those 2 days of volume and divide it up, and you likely have an opportunity to increase total weekly volume because of this.
The fewer rest days you have, I would argue that the more important it becomes to manage fatigue throughout the week (how does my training on day 1 interact with my training on day 2 and 3 etc) AND the more often you train the more volume you CAN accumulate -- this means you will LIKELY reach higher levels of fatigue and need to closely monitor that over the mesocycle.
With what you're proposing above it should be pretty easy. You're looking at 2/week frequency for the most part. I would probably have your main lifts in multiple rep ranges on the lower days (ie squat heavier in sets of ~6 on one lower day and moderate in sets of 10-12 on the other lower day) and I'd probably follow a similar idea on the main lifts for upper sessions.0 -
Hi all. I'll be finished with my first bulk in one month. Prior to that I had been cutting and recomping for approximately two years. I've always done progressive overload trying to get to the 8-10 rep range. My goals for coming out of this bulk are, obviously, to lose the fat I gained while keeping as much muscle as possible, and then just maintaining for the summer. For those goals, is it best to keep in that 8-10 rep range or do the whole lower weight high rep thing? I remember reading somewhere that high rep/low weight was good aesthetics, which is why I ask. TIA for your thoughts/suggestions/advice.0
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trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »Does anyone have any opinions/thoughts on a 5 day PPL variation? My initial thoughts are to set it up as follows;
Push
Pull
Legs
Rest
Upper
Lower
Rest
The goal will be hypertrophy with a secondary focus on strength.
Totally fine, but I think you can come up with a ton of possible ways to adjust frequency and make it successful. Since we can even do things like full body 6 days/week, you can absolutely do the above and be successful with it.
I think what's more important here (and with most programs) is how you distribute volume across the week and how you progress throughout the mesocycle.
What I'm getting at here (I totally don't mean to sound like a prick here either) is that all we see here is a list of days. It could literally say "full body" every day and I would still answer "yes this is possible to be very successful" depending on how the acute variables are managed across the week.
Thanks for the response. I was going to post my full plan with exercises and reps but thought I'd get an initial response before posting up my thoughts.
If you could expand on the bolded, it would be greatly appreciated. I get the general concept but have been a proponent of the bro-split for way too long now.
Additional training days can be beneficial in that they allow you an opportunity to distribute volume. So for example if you train 2 days of full body per week you have 2 days to accumulate weekly volume. If you do 3 full body days per week, you have an additional day to take those 2 days of volume and divide it up, and you likely have an opportunity to increase total weekly volume because of this.
The fewer rest days you have, I would argue that the more important it becomes to manage fatigue throughout the week (how does my training on day 1 interact with my training on day 2 and 3 etc) AND the more often you train the more volume you CAN accumulate -- this means you will LIKELY reach higher levels of fatigue and need to closely monitor that over the mesocycle.
With what you're proposing above it should be pretty easy. You're looking at 2/week frequency for the most part. I would probably have your main lifts in multiple rep ranges on the lower days (ie squat heavier in sets of ~6 on one lower day and moderate in sets of 10-12 on the other lower day) and I'd probably follow a similar idea on the main lifts for upper sessions.
Your advice is much appreciated. That is exactly what I had programmed actually as I will get at least 2 days rest before training any bodypart again. The upper/lower days will be more conditioning focused with supersets and more athletic movements.
Thanks again to you and @psuLemon0 -
Hi all. I'll be finished with my first bulk in one month. Prior to that I had been cutting and recomping for approximately two years. I've always done progressive overload trying to get to the 8-10 rep range. My goals for coming out of this bulk are, obviously, to lose the fat I gained while keeping as much muscle as possible, and then just maintaining for the summer. For those goals, is it best to keep in that 8-10 rep range or do the whole lower weight high rep thing? I remember reading somewhere that high rep/low weight was good aesthetics, which is why I ask. TIA for your thoughts/suggestions/advice.
This just popped up in my email. The 4-day upper/lower split looks fun and is pretty different from the 5-day split that I've always done.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/0 -
So how much have you gained with all these programs that are some variation of what old school lifters have been doing all along. For someone who just trains heavy, changes it up from time to time, are you that much stronger following these programs. Fitness and lifting has become too technical and scientific. Eat this at this time of day, take this 29 min. before workout, drink this during, weigh your food etc. How much more would you get out of all this? I would truly like to know in power lifting there are technical scientific people and people who just eat right and lift. Seen both types win meets. Just curious, not trying to offend anyone although I feel it coming.
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So how much have you gained with all these programs that are some variation of what old school lifters have been doing all along. For someone who just trains heavy, changes it up from time to time, are you that much stronger following these programs. Fitness and lifting has become too technical and scientific. Eat this at this time of day, take this 29 min. before workout, drink this during, weigh your food etc. How much more would you get out of all this? I would truly like to know in power lifting there are technical scientific people and people who just eat right and lift. Seen both types win meets. Just curious, not trying to offend anyone although I feel it coming.
I understand where you're coming from with this.
I don't necessarily agree with you but I don't think your opinion is offensive, and I also think that if you train hard and your program is not totally moronic you will still make good progress.
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So how much have you gained with all these programs that are some variation of what old school lifters have been doing all along. For someone who just trains heavy, changes it up from time to time, are you that much stronger following these programs. Fitness and lifting has become too technical and scientific. Eat this at this time of day, take this 29 min. before workout, drink this during, weigh your food etc. How much more would you get out of all this? I would truly like to know in power lifting there are technical scientific people and people who just eat right and lift. Seen both types win meets. Just curious, not trying to offend anyone although I feel it coming.
Unfortunately there is no way to compare the effectiveness of programmes as all the variables are so individual. You just have to do whatever works for you. I have always had a rough structure and just done what I can on the day whilst ensuring I hit enough volume and try to improve on certain lifts.
Unless you are an elite professional athlete, it really doesn't matter though.1 -
So how much have you gained with all these programs that are some variation of what old school lifters have been doing all along. For someone who just trains heavy, changes it up from time to time, are you that much stronger following these programs. Fitness and lifting has become too technical and scientific. Eat this at this time of day, take this 29 min. before workout, drink this during, weigh your food etc. How much more would you get out of all this? I would truly like to know in power lifting there are technical scientific people and people who just eat right and lift. Seen both types win meets. Just curious, not trying to offend anyone although I feel it coming.
I understand where you're coming from with this.
I don't necessarily agree with you but I don't think your opinion is offensive, and I also think that if you train hard and your program is not totally moronic you will still make good progress.
This, and some people (including most new lifters) don't really know how to properly program their training. As such, they need someone/something to tell them what to do.
Others just like having to not think too much about it. Sure, if you're going to compete, you're more likely to think about it and gain some idea of what needs tweaking. But for the genpop, that just wants to get stronger and/or bigger and/or maintain muscle on a cut? A program should take most, if not all, of the guesswork out of it, so (s)he can just focus on the lifting, as opposed to worrying about the minutia.
But, sure - the more you know - the less you (in theory, should) need a prewritten program. Also, with more experience, you can see how certain lifts respond to different modes of training and adjust, as necessary.4
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