Muscle gaining misconceptions
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I disagree about flexibility not being able to be restored, however if you're saying that joints and ligaments are not as strong and pliable, then why use max poundages for partial reps? Max poundages put more strain on the joint and ligaments than exercise motion that's correct in performance with a resistance one can handle for it.southhamptonmike wrote: »I'm almost 70 and work out 5 days a week. As you get older, the joints wear out and your ligiments are not as flexible. If you go past what your joints and ligiments will allow you may cause an injury. I have been lififting weights a long time and you can't get felexibility back but you can retain your muscles. I know that at my age I have to loose as much body weight while still retain muscle strength to be as fit as I like. The less weight your joints have to support will help you alot as long as you keep your muscle strength. You just have to change the way you lift as you get older.
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southhamptonmike wrote: »I'm almost 70 and work out 5 days a week. As you get older, the joints wear out and your ligiments are not as flexible. If you go past what your joints and ligiments will allow you may cause an injury. I have been lififting weights a long time and you can't get felexibility back but you can retain your muscles. I know that at my age I have to loose as much body weight while still retain muscle strength to be as fit as I like. The less weight your joints have to support will help you alot as long as you keep your muscle strength. You just have to change the way you lift as you get older.
From personal experience, I would disagree about not being able to get flexibility back. I'm in my late 50's and lost a bunch of flexibility due to an office job. I've working on it hard for the last couple years and while I don't move like a 14 YO female gymnast, I move better than most people my age and better than I did say 15 years ago.0 -
Both of you give examples of older people already lifting. My post was about older people just now getting into weightlifting, for modest gains or to prevent some muscle loss.
I absolutely think there is a place, and a need, for a modest strength training program for many seniors who have not done this before.0 -
I first would get clearance from your doctor before starting any exercise. If Ok then join a gym that has weight machines for each body part. Have someone from the staff show you how to adjust and use each machine. These machines are great for a full body workout for someone who desires strength increase. I don't think your ever too old to exercise. Progress at your own pace as you become use to exercise. Don't listen to anyone except the gym staff and then don't do anything you are uncomfortable with. It may be hard at first but after a few weeks you should be aquainted with doing it. My mother who is in her 90's joined a gym with my coaxing and does the bike, treadmill and circut machines. She said she feels funny because she is always the oldest person in the gym. I told her to be proud.0
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There are lots of studies out there showing the benefit of strength programs for seniors and how many get pain relief along with better physical improvement by implementing it into their lives.Lucille4444 wrote: »Both of you give examples of older people already lifting. My post was about older people just now getting into weightlifting, for modest gains or to prevent some muscle loss.
I absolutely think there is a place, and a need, for a modest strength training program for many seniors who have not done this before.
The biggest issues for most seniors is lack of any or minimal physical activity and lack of exercising the upper body which can lead to that hunched over look.
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I purchased a weight set and some other machines, have been exercising at home.southhamptonmike wrote: »I first would get clearance from your doctor before starting any exercise. If Ok then join a gym that has weight machines for each body part. Have someone from the staff show you how to adjust and use each machine. These machines are great for a full body workout for someone who desires strength increase. I don't think your ever too old to exercise. Progress at your own pace as you become use to exercise. Don't listen to anyone except the gym staff and then don't do anything you are uncomfortable with. It may be hard at first but after a few weeks you should be aquainted with doing it. My mother who is in her 90's joined a gym with my coaxing and does the bike, treadmill and circut machines. She said she feels funny because she is always the oldest person in the gym. I told her to be proud.
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I do wonder sometimes about the science behind growing muscle.
I did a long slow natural climb of 12lb over 3 years and think that it was more or less 80% muscle, maybe more, and believe I sort of kept my existing fat and added some more (though I'm still relatively lean as that was coming from skinny), I didn't do anything really intentional except the working out differently, which would support the idea that it's eating a little more and working out heavier that leads to real muscle growth, and understand that you can't literally turn fat into muscle, even though people do appear to be doing that sometimes. Is "recomposition" a small ongoing series of days over and days under? Like your body takes the opportunity to grow some muscle when it finds the extra calories, and burns off the fat when it has to, because you didn't eat enough for a few days? You feel like you are eating to maintain, but really it's made up of days over and days under, I'd guess, nobody can get that exactly balanced.0 -
So we r saying that if u r in a slight calorie deficit and lift weights, ur muscles don't respond to the stress being put on?0
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baptiste565 wrote: »So we r saying that if u r in a slight calorie deficit and lift weights, ur muscles don't respond to the stress being put on?
They will not appreciably grow in size* in nearly all cases**, correct.
*but strength increases are still possible
**extreme novices or returning athletes excepted0 -
baptiste565 wrote: »So we r saying that if u r in a slight calorie deficit and lift weights, ur muscles don't respond to the stress being put on?
Of course they respond to the stress. First and foremost you will build strength, which is more than just building muscles mass. And yes, you can build muscle while on a deficit...thigh it slower.
In the past 4 plus months I have dropped 40 lbs. I have gained strength in every lift (leg press from 255 to 400, bench from 150 to 200, EZ curl from 45 to 75) and while losing 2" on my neck, 6" on my waist, I have kept my arm size and quad size...and both show musculature...there is muscle growth.
Now of course, if I was not in a significant deficit, I might have been able to add more mass or strength, but I don't really want more size...and being stronger isn't really important.
Also, there are other factors one considers such as age, testosterone in the body, sleep,0 -
Showing musculature doesn't necessarily equate to adding muscle though. Especially in a calorie deficit, muscle is quite hard to add on without any "assistance" due to the fact that adding muscle means adding mass. And many people confuse the issue of exchanging fat weight for muscle weight. It doesn't happen quite the way people think.baptiste565 wrote: »So we r saying that if u r in a slight calorie deficit and lift weights, ur muscles don't respond to the stress being put on?
Of course they respond to the stress. First and foremost you will build strength, which is more than just building muscles mass. And yes, you can build muscle while on a deficit...thigh it slower.
In the past 4 plus months I have dropped 40 lbs. I have gained strength in every lift (leg press from 255 to 400, bench from 150 to 200, EZ curl from 45 to 75) and while losing 2" on my neck, 6" on my waist, I have kept my arm size and quad size...and both show musculature...there is muscle growth.
Now of course, if I was not in a significant deficit, I might have been able to add more mass or strength, but I don't really want more size...and being stronger isn't really important.
Also, there are other factors one considers such as age, testosterone in the body, sleep,
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I believe recomposition is possible but not easy. Genetics plays a big role. Nutrition is also a big factor.0
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Definitely possible. Much tougher to do as you get older due to testosterone reduction and usually progressive resistance starts ceding faster.baptiste565 wrote: »I believe recomposition is possible but not easy. Genetics plays a big role. Nutrition is also a big factor.
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Definitely possible. Much tougher to do as you get older due to testosterone reduction and usually progressive resistance starts ceding faster.baptiste565 wrote: »I believe recomposition is possible but not easy. Genetics plays a big role. Nutrition is also a big factor.
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Eric Helms has a nice article he put out a few days ago, touching on this.
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
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Definitely possible. Much tougher to do as you get older due to testosterone reduction and usually progressive resistance starts ceding faster.baptiste565 wrote: »I believe recomposition is possible but not easy. Genetics plays a big role. Nutrition is also a big factor.
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Eric Helms has a nice article he put out a few days ago, touching on this.
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
Whoah.. A little over my head. Did it say that recomposition is possible but harder in trained individuals?0 -
baptiste565 wrote: »
Definitely possible. Much tougher to do as you get older due to testosterone reduction and usually progressive resistance starts ceding faster.baptiste565 wrote: »I believe recomposition is possible but not easy. Genetics plays a big role. Nutrition is also a big factor.
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Eric Helms has a nice article he put out a few days ago, touching on this.
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
Whoah.. A little over my head. Did it say that recomposition is possible but harder in trained individuals?
That's what he is providing as the conclusion.
"The main thing we want you, dear reader, to take home from this article is this – recomposition is normal. It happens – less so in trained individuals, but much more in untrained, new lifters. It’s not necessarily something to aim for, but be aware of it and how it can affect your scale weight if you use that as a metric to gauge progress for either you or your clients."0 -
Does gaining in strength by doing a progressive lifting program while in a deficit make hypertrophy easier when not in a deficit anymore?
Ex: if I train myself to bench press 50 lbs instead of 25 lbs, then when I have lost fat and eat at maintenance or surplus, is it easier to grow muscles while being able to lift higher amounts of weight?0 -
Well if you can bench 50lbs in deficit, then once you start a surplus, energy balance will help you to increase the poundage, thereby continuing progressive resistance. That's basically the way you add muscle on (hypertrophy).Does gaining in strength by doing a progressive lifting program while in a deficit make hypertrophy easier when not in a deficit anymore?
Ex: if I train myself to bench press 50 lbs instead of 25 lbs, then when I have lost fat and eat at maintenance or surplus, is it easier to grow muscles while being able to lift higher amounts of weight?
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And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A little off topic....but if recomping is eating around maintenance, and a 250cal surplus is recommended as the minimum for bulking, is there a chance of adding a little additional mass if one does a slightly smaller surplus of 100-150?
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Any surplus with a good resistance training program will encourage muscle hypertrophy.And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A little off topic....but if recomping is eating around maintenance, and a 250cal surplus is recommended as the minimum for bulking, is there a chance of adding a little additional mass if one does a slightly smaller surplus of 100-150?
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This is one for the more experience lifters. I've recently scene a video by a natural bodybuilder stating you don't necessarily have to eat in a constant surplus to make muscle gains,(a bulk) but that anytime you eat you put your body into a surplus this giving it the potential to start repairing and growing. Then whenever you go a few hours without eating it puts your body into a deficit, since you're burning energy that you're currently not supplying your body with.
Basically what he was saying is to eat every 1-2 hours but only the amount that you feel you need, not eating to the point where you feel absolutely stuff. Obviously a diet consisting of nutritionally dense foods being required. I've been doing the tried and true bulk/cuts for coming up on 1.5 years resulting in close to 26lbs gained in lean mass. I was just curious as to what others opinions on his theory might be.0 -
Total calories at the end of the day matter. Meal timing and amount don't matter if one is staying within the parameters of calories needed to be in a surplus. Most bodybuilders rely on anecdotes and will stick to them.This is one for the more experience lifters. I've recently scene a video by a natural bodybuilder stating you don't necessarily have to eat in a constant surplus to make muscle gains,(a bulk) but that anytime you eat you put your body into a surplus this giving it the potential to start repairing and growing. Then whenever you go a few hours without eating it puts your body into a deficit, since you're burning energy that you're currently not supplying your body with.
Basically what he was saying is to eat every 1-2 hours but only the amount that you feel you need, not eating to the point where you feel absolutely stuff. Obviously a diet consisting of nutritionally dense foods being required. I've been doing the tried and true bulk/cuts for coming up on 1.5 years resulting in close to 26lbs gained in lean mass. I was just curious as to what others opinions on his theory might be.
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Total calories at the end of the day matter. Meal timing and amount don't matter if one is staying within the parameters of calories needed to be in a surplus. Most bodybuilders rely on anecdotes and will stick to them.This is one for the more experience lifters. I've recently scene a video by a natural bodybuilder stating you don't necessarily have to eat in a constant surplus to make muscle gains,(a bulk) but that anytime you eat you put your body into a surplus this giving it the potential to start repairing and growing. Then whenever you go a few hours without eating it puts your body into a deficit, since you're burning energy that you're currently not supplying your body with.
Basically what he was saying is to eat every 1-2 hours but only the amount that you feel you need, not eating to the point where you feel absolutely stuff. Obviously a diet consisting of nutritionally dense foods being required. I've been doing the tried and true bulk/cuts for coming up on 1.5 years resulting in close to 26lbs gained in lean mass. I was just curious as to what others opinions on his theory might be.
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Thanks for the reply, just wanted to bounce it off of you. Things would be so much simpler if it worked that way.
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Oh hey you brought it back.
I'll shoot. For those who are striving to tone certain muscle groups you'll find that your progress will be fairly stagnant. Since you cannot tone a muscle, you can either reduce your total body fat, no singular spot through a caloric deficit. Or you can increase your underlying muscle mass through progressive overload and a calorie surplus.
Sad news for any of the New Years resolutioners that are just getting into it, but it's info worth knowing.0 -
Just noting here that any improvement in one's current muscle mass will enhance not only one's strength, but when the fat starts to reduce, visual muscularity. Many times people don't try to add any more muscle after they see what their physique's look like when body fat is down to 15%-20%.Oh hey you brought it back.
I'll shoot. For those who are striving to tone certain muscle groups you'll find that your progress will be fairly stagnant. Since you cannot tone a muscle, you can either reduce your total body fat, no singular spot through a caloric deficit. Or you can increase your underlying muscle mass through progressive overload and a calorie surplus.
Sad news for any of the New Years resolutioners that are just getting into it, but it's info worth knowing.
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Thank you for your insight!
I'm a newbie to lifting, and I'm currently losing weight and seeing new muscle (or maybe not new muscle, but muscle that was hiding under fat?)
I have about 15 lbs I'd like to lose, but I really like lifting and want to get more muscular. So should I plan to continue my calorie deficit until I lose the 15 lbs, then build mass/muscle once I get to my goal fat/weight loss?0 -
Go about losing your 15lbs and reassess when you get there. You may like what you see or you may not. Then at that point you can make a new plan of action.stephmph16 wrote: »Thank you for your insight!
I'm a newbie to lifting, and I'm currently losing weight and seeing new muscle (or maybe not new muscle, but muscle that was hiding under fat?)
I have about 15 lbs I'd like to lose, but I really like lifting and want to get more muscular. So should I plan to continue my calorie deficit until I lose the 15 lbs, then build mass/muscle once I get to my goal fat/weight loss?
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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