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Flu shots? For them or against ?

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  • stephenearllucas
    stephenearllucas Posts: 255 Member
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    Not for or against them, but I've never had one and I haven't had the flu since high school (39 years). I work at a university, around people all the time. Just lucky, I gues...
  • Dnarules
    Dnarules Posts: 2,081 Member
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    Reaverie wrote: »
    Ive never gotten one and I have always refused the doctors when they tried to insist my kids take them. Same goes for the chicken pox shot. I believe our bodies learn to build up immunity by getting sick. In the case of those whose immunity's are shot, they need the extra help. But if your are healthy, I think its better for your immunity to get in the exercise and build its muscles just like we build ours. Now concerning diseases that are KNOWN to kill? Shots shots shots! I will probably get my kids the chicken pox shot this year though. They never caught it (when I was a kid it was a right of passage) and I know that it becomes more dangerous with age.

    You have already gotten many good responses on one part of this. I want to add that if your immunity is truly shot, vaccines are not effective (or not as effective). This is one reason herd immunity is so important. If a high enough percentage of the population is immunized, then those who cannot be vaccinated for various reasons, including immunosuppression, are still protected.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
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    Reaverie wrote: »
    Ive never gotten one and I have always refused the doctors when they tried to insist my kids take them. Same goes for the chicken pox shot. I believe our bodies learn to build up immunity by getting sick. In the case of those whose immunity's are shot, they need the extra help. But if your are healthy, I think its better for your immunity to get in the exercise and build its muscles just like we build ours. Now concerning diseases that are KNOWN to kill? Shots shots shots! I will probably get my kids the chicken pox shot this year though. They never caught it (when I was a kid it was a right of passage) and I know that it becomes more dangerous with age.

    Refusing vaccination is analogous to never having your kids lift a weight or run and expecting them to succeed in a football game.

    Immunity gained through exposure is only effective in the first 14 months and research is proving this to be even shorter. In order for immune systems to work effectively they must develop a memory response. Vaccines serve this purpose by introducing a similar structure to engage and develop immunological memory.
  • thielke2015
    thielke2015 Posts: 212 Member
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    Interesting post. I am a flu vaccinators for my area of work...... However, I do not have the flu vaccine. On receiving the training to give this vaccine to a PGD I was told that it may be difficult for me to Be an effective vaccinator because of my unwillingness to have the jab myself. I really didn't see this as an issue as I do not have the vaccine as I am vegetarian and do not take egg products.
    Apparently my vegetarian status was looked down on and it was obvious that I was being pressured into receiving a vaccine that I did not want for this reason.
    Needless to say I vaccinated between 100-200 staff.
    The way I see it is there are always going to be the type of person who ques up for the vaccine and there will always be those who will not.

    A way to make me feel guilty I think was for the educators to tell me that I can have the flu without having any symptoms and therefore, could pass the flu on in this way...... this was the first I had heard of this and if anyone has come across any evidence for this then please share.
  • thielke2015
    thielke2015 Posts: 212 Member
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    amAyrebeccah wrote: »
    thielke2015 wrote: »
    Interesting post. I am a flu vaccinators for my area of work...... However, I do not have the flu vaccine. On receiving the training to give this vaccine to a PGD I was told that it may be difficult for me to Be an effective vaccinator because of my unwillingness to have the jab myself. I really didn't see this as an issue as I do not have the vaccine as I am vegetarian and do not take egg products.
    Apparently my vegetarian status was looked down on and it was obvious that I was being pressured into receiving a vaccine that I did not want for this reason.
    Needless to say I vaccinated between 100-200 staff.
    The way I see it is there are always going to be the type of person who ques up for the vaccine and there will always be those who will not.

    I'd probably be more concerned about this attitude toward your patients than the fact that you don't take the vaccine.
    Also, you can get flu virus inoculation without egg in it. I'm surprised that no one told you that so you could at least properly educate patients.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_flublok-vaccine.htm
    A way to make me feel guilty I think was for the educators to tell me that I can have the flu without having any symptoms and therefore, could pass the flu on in this way...... this was the first I had heard of this and if anyone has come across any evidence for this then please share.

    It is possible, but studies question how likely.
    Most healthy adults may be able to infect other people beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick. Children may pass the virus for longer than 7 days. Symptoms start 1 to 4 days after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those persons may still spread the virus to others.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm

    Contrast with

    Asymptomatic individuals may shed influenza virus, but studies have not conclusively determined if such people effectively transmit influenza.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2646474/


    That said, a person who regularly works in a medical context is probably at higher risk for spreading, even if asymptomatic.

    Hi, thank you for this and if I had been given this information on the day then I might have actually proceeded. The papers look interesting so I have saved them and I was told there was no alternative for people who didn't take egg eg, veggies and vegans. Maybe a change for next winter! However, I am wondering about the motives behind them saying there was no other option... maybe financial?
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,992 Member
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    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Reaverie wrote: »
    Ive never gotten one and I have always refused the doctors when they tried to insist my kids take them. Same goes for the chicken pox shot. I believe our bodies learn to build up immunity by getting sick. In the case of those whose immunity's are shot, they need the extra help. But if your are healthy, I think its better for your immunity to get in the exercise and build its muscles just like we build ours. Now concerning diseases that are KNOWN to kill? Shots shots shots! I will probably get my kids the chicken pox shot this year though. They never caught it (when I was a kid it was a right of passage) and I know that it becomes more dangerous with age.

    Refusing vaccination is analogous to never having your kids lift a weight or run and expecting them to succeed in a football game.

    Immunity gained through exposure is only effective in the first 14 months and research is proving this to be even shorter. In order for immune systems to work effectively they must develop a memory response. Vaccines serve this purpose by introducing a similar structure to engage and develop immunological memory.

    This isn't quite true - or I haven't read your post correctly.

    Passive immunity - ie maternally issued immunity to newborns- wears off after around a year, that is true.

    But for some diseases eg chicken pox, measles, mumps, immunity gained through exposure ie through having the actual disease, is lifelong.
    People who have had known cases of these diseases do not need vaccination.

    Other diseases, like whooping cough, this is not so - and people who have had disease still need vaccination as immunity from both disease and vaccine wear off after 7 - 10 years.
    Hence the need for booster vaccines for some diseases and not for others.

  • finny11122
    finny11122 Posts: 8,436 Member
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    Big Pharma settle cases out of court every year . Pay people off to keep them quiet . It's a billion dollar industry to sell vaccines . Just ask people privately that work in these places and they will tell you all the horror stories .
  • comptonelizabeth
    comptonelizabeth Posts: 1,701 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    yes, smallpox has been eradicated from the world now

    http://www.who.int/features/2010/smallpox/en/

    Well, unless it is all a Big Pharma Conspiracy and the WHO has been paid off to say that :s

    Everything is a conspiracy and all truth is false
    :smiley::smiley:
  • Lourdesong
    Lourdesong Posts: 1,492 Member
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    For the flu shot. Not always though. I was against it for a time, not because I seriously investigated the topic but because I witnessed coworkers getting sick and calling out of work and citing the flu shot as the reason. Not to mention I heard similar things from clients who would state they were unwell and called out from their jobs citing the flu shot as the reason.
    Given that my job was the type where you only get paid if there is work, I didn't want to risk work, and therefore my pay, due to being out sick from whatever effects of a flu shot, which seemed more likely than the flu itself.
    I got my first flu shot when I got pregnant last year. I wasn't working and the risk/reward of getting sick was a much different story.

    I'm not going to pretend I understand flu shots or vaccine debate, but My behavior surrounding the issue was entirely about what seemed to serve me most at the time. #justbeinghonest
  • comptonelizabeth
    comptonelizabeth Posts: 1,701 Member
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    Unless you have the live vaccine,it shouldn't make you ill though there are always exceptions. The shot I have makes me feel slightly feverish and achey for about 24 hours.
    If you've ever experienced real flu you'll know it's much worse than the shot. I'm recovering from it at the moment (the shot doesn't protect against all strains) and have never felt so ill. I'm self employed and have had to cancel all work since Christmas. I've had 4 different lots of antibiotics for the resulting chest infection,which have horrible side effects,and have a suspected hernia from coughing. I can't even go upstairs without getting breathless. I'd take a few shot side effects over this any day!
  • DaveDR7
    DaveDR7 Posts: 49 Member
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    Jordan,
    great question!
    I always thought I would probably get the flu shots later in my life to give me a fighting chance, but deep down, I'm against them.
    I can't remember 100% why though, I did a basic research years ago and found something to do with your immune system fights better by itself and although I can see the benefits if your immune system is already compromised then it may be a no-brainier, but I read so many bad reports how people seem to get it really bad after they've had a flu jab!?
    That's the one that really puts me off, this was years ago mind you and I don't know if flu jabs have improved in many ways or not?
    I'm probably one of those that will never take the flu jab and hope to maintain a physical and mental fitness instead and then wish when I do get the flu, that I had taken the jabs!! ;-)
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    DaveDR7 wrote: »
    Jordan,
    great question!
    I always thought I would probably get the flu shots later in my life to give me a fighting chance, but deep down, I'm against them.
    I can't remember 100% why though, I did a basic research years ago and found something to do with your immune system fights better by itself and although I can see the benefits if your immune system is already compromised then it may be a no-brainier, but I read so many bad reports how people seem to get it really bad after they've had a flu jab!?
    That's the one that really puts me off, this was years ago mind you and I don't know if flu jabs have improved in many ways or not?
    I'm probably one of those that will never take the flu jab and hope to maintain a physical and mental fitness instead and then wish when I do get the flu, that I had taken the jabs!! ;-)

    So you didn't actually read the thread I guess.
  • comptonelizabeth
    comptonelizabeth Posts: 1,701 Member
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    tmoneyag99 wrote: »
    FOR FOR FOR them. Herd health is a legit thing.

    DH is allergic to eggs so he can't take a flu shot. He has no choice. When he's older and with a weaker immune system he will need for everyone around him to take the shot so that he doesn't get what could be a terminal bought of flu.

    This!
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