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Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
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ABeautifulDistraction wrote: »I have Hashimoto's / autoimmune issues and when I have gotten a flu shot I have a bad reaction and I still get the flu. The last time I got a flu shot was 2004 and I ended up being really ill. I am supportive of other people getting them if they feel that they work for them.
I have Hashimoto's and Scleroderma and 3 of my specialists (pulmonologist, cardiologist and endocrinologist) insist I do NOT get the flu shot because I am at much higher risk for complications. Also, it makes my children more likely to have vaccine injuries - in fact my oldest son had a serious reaction to the chicken pox vaccine. Thankfully no lasting effects. There ARE groups of people who vaccinations are not a good fit for.
This does not make me anti-vaxx, but I do believe everyone should take their own medical histories and the risks into account and keep an open mind that this topic is not black and white. Some children for example are allergic to eggs, and thus cannot take MMR or Flu shots.
Most comments on this thread have acknowledged that there are people for whom the vaccine is not safe,and I don't think anyone is advocating that everyone should have it,regardless of allergies or health issues. It's precisely because some people can't have it or,due to immunity issues,may not respond by building immunity ,that "herd immunity "is important because it may help to protect people like you.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
It is pure speculation because the International Medical Council on Vaccination is full of woo. It's a site full of anti-vaxxer conspiracies disguised as medical knowledge, i.e. alternative facts.
In the scientific community, there is no doubt about the efficacy of herd immunity and the good that vaccinations do.8 -
I'm all for them. I know they aren't perfect. However, already this year I know two families who have been struck by the flu. In one family, everybody got the flu. In the other family, everyone got the flu except for the two people who got the flu shot. It seems like there is very little risk in getting the shot yourself, and possibly a large (maybe even life-saving) benefit.4
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janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?
Are you talking about a known like polio or an emotional issue of unknowns like the Flu shot?0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?
Are you talking about a known like polio or an emotional issue of unknowns like the Flu shot?
I do not understand this question. Are you saying that the polio vaccine is more "known" than the flu vaccine? Or that the "emotional issue" is stronger when it comes to the flu vaccine?
When you referred to "past shots" in childhood, I assumed you were referring to more than just the flu vaccine.
Are you meaning to say that you think the flu vaccine may contribute to autoimmune disorders, but the polio vaccine doesn't?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?
Are you talking about a known like polio or an emotional issue of unknowns like the Flu shot?
I do not understand this question. Are you saying that the polio vaccine is more "known" than the flu vaccine? Or that the "emotional issue" is stronger when it comes to the flu vaccine?
When you referred to "past shots" in childhood, I assumed you were referring to more than just the flu vaccine.
Are you meaning to say that you think the flu vaccine may contribute to autoimmune disorders, but the polio vaccine doesn't?
In my mind the results of getting Polio is well known. Where a flu shot protects one from getting the flu to any worthwhile degree is not medically proven today.
My brain would tell me 60 years ago the Polio vaccinations were less safe because they gave some polio. Since flu shots are still annually that drives up the risk of something going wrong. We know autoimmune diseases are on the rise but the causes are still basically unknown because there can be many different causes with the same results.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
I've studied up a lot on auto-immune disorders because I have them (Type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto's). There are 2 things needed for most of these auto-immune diseases:
1. DNA. Specifically, people like me have problematic versions of HLA genes (passed through chromosome 6).
2. Environmental trigger. This is why not everybody in my family has type 1 diabetes despite also having the same DNA problem. Something needs to trigger the auto-immune response. In the case of type 1 diabetes, only about 5% of us with the DNA are triggered. This is why I don't know anybody else in my blood line with type 1... I have to go up and down the family tree for so many generations that the nearest relative is likely that kid who got sick and died 300 years ago, blamed on either a flu or for an unidentified illness. The fact that some siblings both were triggered while other entire families carry the genes with nobody getting triggered is likely bad luck. For the population as a whole, it is about 5% of those who have the genes mentioned in #1.
The environmental trigger can vary widely, but is usually something that your immune system SHOULD attack. Sometimes you might hear an uninformed type 1 exclaim that the flu caused them to get diabetes, or chicken pox caused them to get diabetes... which may be partially true if the flu or chicken pox was the trigger in their individual circumstance.
There might be an argument to be made that the risk of a flu vaccine triggering another auto-immune disease in someone with the problem HLA genes is so much greater than the risk of getting the flu (which could also trigger the auto-immune response). I don't support that viewpoint, but that doesn't make the point invalid. This is a gray area where I'm not sure anybody is absolutely right or wrong on either side.2 -
It was the HLA B27 factor that I tripped over.0
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This thread was the impetus I needed to get my flu shot. No reason not to, just hadn't got around to it. Plus one for the herd.13
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Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.4 -
rhtexasgal wrote: »Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.
I totally agree about hygiene! But as a uc sufferer I'd like to add, you are lucky that you've been in remission for several years and I'm happy for you. Other ibd sufferers are less fortunate and,despite being careful with health and diet,have no choice but to take strong immunosuppressant medication which makes us more vulnerable to infection.3 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »rhtexasgal wrote: »Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.
I totally agree about hygiene! But as a uc sufferer I'd like to add, you are lucky that you've been in remission for several years and I'm happy for you. Other ibd sufferers are less fortunate and,despite being careful with health and diet,have no choice but to take strong immunosuppressant medication which makes us more vulnerable to infection.
I totally agree with you and understand that I am one of the lucky ones, just as I understand that the UC could return with no warning! Flu shots did not work for me and my immune system just as it DOES work for others with compromised immune systems. Everyone's genetic history and body chemistry is different ...2 -
rhtexasgal wrote: »comptonelizabeth wrote: »rhtexasgal wrote: »Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.
I totally agree about hygiene! But as a uc sufferer I'd like to add, you are lucky that you've been in remission for several years and I'm happy for you. Other ibd sufferers are less fortunate and,despite being careful with health and diet,have no choice but to take strong immunosuppressant medication which makes us more vulnerable to infection.
I totally agree with you and understand that I am one of the lucky ones, just as I understand that the UC could return with no warning! Flu shots did not work for me and my immune system just as it DOES work for others with compromised immune systems. Everyone's genetic history and body chemistry is different ...
Very true. Long may your remission continue!2 -
jordanchamzuk wrote: »Wanna see what other people think about this topic.
I for one am very neutral on it. Working in Healthcare I see if fit. However I also see negative effects of it.
What's your thoughts?
I am against the flu shot but everyone needs to decide for themselves.
My husband and I both had bad reactions from it. I last had the flu shot in 2003.. I was sick for two months.. haven't been that sick since..my husband had the flew shot twice last one was 2009 both times he got severely sick... haven't been that sick since..
We do get sick here and there but it last maybe a week if that...:)3 -
While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/1
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While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/
The one I get (in the uk) isn't a live vaccine3 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/
The one I get (in the uk) isn't a live vaccine
Yeah, the Australian one isn't a live vaccine, either.2 -
I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
2 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
Agreed. Though there have been isolated cases in the UK of parents contracting polio after their babies have been vaccinated- apparently from changing nappies. Which may or may not be down to adults not keeping up with their own boosters (and not washing their hands after changing their babies !)0 -
paperpudding wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »My children do get flu shots every year. Their annual physicals always take place late summer or early fall, around the time the doctors get the vaccine in...so since we're already in the office, they get the shot (or mist, if it's deemed effective...this year it was shots only).
I never get the flu shot. I suppose I am relying on herd immunity from my family. For me it would mean a special trip to the doctor for the shot, and I never seem to fit it in. So far I've been lucky.
If you are in the US, many pharmacies offer them on a walk-in basis. It's easy to fit in with other errands.
I'm not in the US. Maybe that's why I never gave serious thought to it. I regard flu as just a more serious version of the common cold. But maybe I'm wrong.
If you read through the thread you will see explanations of how you are wrong.
ETA - and not sure how being in the US or not changes that - you are wrong on this ,wherever you live.
I agree, but flu shots is just not part of the normal conversations I hear around me. Maybe they're available, maybe they're not, but it isn't part of our reality.0 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
This is the newest argument used by anti-vax doctors like the two younger Drs Sears who make money selling bogus medical exemptions to scared parents.2 -
Yeah, flu shots in the US aren't live either.1
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While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/
The flu shot is not live. And flu mist is not even being used this year.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
The flu mist was attenuated, but is not being used this year, at least in the US. The live polio vaccine has been known to revert and cause disease. The US switched to inactivated vaccine in 2000 I believe. It was rare. I have not heard of the other vaccines you mentioned doing this.0 -
To clear things up, I am not anti vaccine. I have vaccinated my kids and myself and we were in the priority group for the swine flu vaccine. My teenager is HPV and meningitis vaccinated. I am just not for vaccinating against everything under the sun especially when said vaccine is not that effective (48%) and increases risk to the most vulnerable in the population. In addition recent studies show that vaccinating every year against the flu gives less and less protection each year you do it...which is concerning. What is point of using a vaccine for increased immunity when young and healthy if it then becomes useless when you reach old age and need it most? Here are some references/sources for my views. Everyone is entitled to make their own cost benefit risk analysis on vaccines. Cambridge University study showing viral shedding is real
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/infection-control-and-hospital-epidemiology/article/div-classtitleduration-of-virus-shedding-after-trivalent-intranasal-live-attenuated-influenza-vaccination-in-adultsdiv/B2186D69436BA25A2775ED0CEFEEE313
Canadian study showing repeat flu shots every year can backfire...and reduce immunity.
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/02/studies-shed-light-effects-serial-flu-shots-current-vaccines-benefits
John Hopkins University Medical School study which states that individuals recently vaccinated with a live virus vaccine can pass the disease on...and how it is a public health concern for immune compromised individuals. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24582311
University of Oxford fact sheet that clearly states people who receive the nasal flu vaccine should avoid immune compromised people for two weeks because of risk of passing on the disease. In same sheet also says that studies show the vaccine does not work all that well. http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/nasal-flu-vaccine2 -
Of course anyone who gets a live vaccine should stay away from immunosuppressed people for two weeks but most flu vaccines are not live.1
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I agree the flu shot is not a live vaccine. My major health concern is not the flu but cancer. The only prevention for cancer that I know about is a bullet proof immune system so that is my objective which in turn offers protection from the flu and other stuff as well. Since cancer does not even seem to be a disease since it has no concrete cause like the flu does I see no way there will ever be a cure for it. While I have never seen proof the flu vaccine works for the most part it seems to help some people while per posts here while it seems to hurt some people per post.
There just is not any third party medical evidence offering concrete medical reasons to get the flu shot that I have seen. I do not remember when I had the flu but I do remember the negative results of my last flu shot.
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paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
I'm in the UK and my four-year old had the flu nasal spray which I was told is a live (attenuated) vaccine. This was offered to all two to seven year olds I believe. My daughter won't be able to have the live one again as since having it I've become immuno-suppressed. There's no way I can stay away from my little one for two weeks so she'll have to have the flu jab (not live) next winter (which will cause problems as she doesn't like having jabs).
My GP insisted on vaccinating my entire family because I'm now immuno-suppressed. I wasn't too popular that day but none of us suffered any ill-effects apart from a bit of pain from the jab itself.
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