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Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
But the bolded is more reason why healthy people should get the flu shot, so they don't get the flu and SPREAD it to people who are most at risk.
There is no actual confusion. Herd immunity is important.
@kimnyc72 as you can read Herd immunity is a pipe dream in the States and Europe when it comes to the Flu.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22414740
From the linked page:
"CONCLUSION:The influenza vaccination coverage must be increased in the United States and Europe in order to establish herd immunity. It is necessary to develop new influenza prevention messages based on herd immunity."
Where exactly on that page do you see evidence herd immunity is a pipe dream? All it says is that we're not there yet.
And the reason we do not have a sufficient % of people vaccinated to complete herd immunity is because so many people haven't been properly educated. We have 20 pages here so far, and I haven't seen anyone post any actual scientific evidence that anyone other than those allergic to the ingredients should not get the flu vaccine. Just feelz and conspiracy theories.
@kimnyc72 at the rate we are going we may hit 80% in 2097. Not a pipe dream four generations from now I agree.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22414740-1 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
FYI I suffer from 2 chronic diseases: asthma and inflammatory bowel disease. Neither of these has anything to do with what I eat or how I move. A dose of flu could make me seriously ill.
Edit : I don't have a choice about "keeping my immune system healthy " because I have to take immunosuppressant medication. The best way I can avoid at least certain strains of flu is by having the vaccine and,apparently,avoiding healthy people who are too selfish to have it.
mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/asthma/basics/causes/con-20026992
health.com/health/gallery/0,,20462893,00.html
While you have to serious health conditions life style and way of eating can be factors for some it seems from the links.
I was to start taking immune suppressant medication for pain management but in my case when I cut out most all sugar and all grains my pain was managed by my LCHF diet. Thankfully my 40 years of gut issues resolved within 180 days and has remained resolved for the past two years. I am still working to lower my CRP level.
Best of success in managing your serious health concerns.
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Thank you.You too
Unfortunately my gut disorder is a chronic autoimmune condition and although diet might play a part in controlling symptoms,it won't resolve it permanently. (Trust me - I've tried everything going!) I've had asthma since birth. Maintaining good overall health is an important part of managing chronic diseases,I agree.
Thank you for the link;I'll have a look at it.2 -
I do. I work in the medical field. Happy to help herd immunity (research WHO and other scholarly articles) wen others refuse to get them.5
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GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems. 3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
But the bolded is more reason why healthy people should get the flu shot, so they don't get the flu and SPREAD it to people who are most at risk.
There is no actual confusion. Herd immunity is important.
@kimnyc72 as you can read Herd immunity is a pipe dream in the States and Europe when it comes to the Flu.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22414740
From the linked page:
"CONCLUSION:The influenza vaccination coverage must be increased in the United States and Europe in order to establish herd immunity. It is necessary to develop new influenza prevention messages based on herd immunity."
Where exactly on that page do you see evidence herd immunity is a pipe dream? All it says is that we're not there yet.
And the reason we do not have a sufficient % of people vaccinated to complete herd immunity is because so many people haven't been properly educated. We have 20 pages here so far, and I haven't seen anyone post any actual scientific evidence that anyone other than those allergic to the ingredients should not get the flu vaccine. Just feelz and conspiracy theories.
@kimnyc72 at the rate we are going we may hit 80% in 2097. Not a pipe dream four generations from now I agree.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22414740
I'm sorry but that's why they say we need better education and publicity. If people would stop believing every hack or soccer mom who writes a blog and scares people off of vaccinations, we could get to a % that supports herd immunity and protect people who can't get the shot. But this thread is full of people, including you, who keep suggesting this is legitimately a complicated and emotional decision. It's only complicated for people who don't know how to vet sources, or who are being willfully contrary because conspiracy theories make them feel important.7 -
I have Hashimoto's / autoimmune issues and when I have gotten a flu shot I have a bad reaction and I still get the flu. The last time I got a flu shot was 2004 and I ended up being really ill. I am supportive of other people getting them if they feel that they work for them.2
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GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?2 -
I have Hashimoto's / autoimmune issues and when I have gotten a flu shot I have a bad reaction and I still get the flu. The last time I got a flu shot was 2004 and I ended up being really ill. I am supportive of other people getting them if they feel that they work for them.
I have Hashimoto's and Scleroderma and 3 of my specialists (pulmonologist, cardiologist and endocrinologist) insist I do NOT get the flu shot because I am at much higher risk for complications. Also, it makes my children more likely to have vaccine injuries - in fact my oldest son had a serious reaction to the chicken pox vaccine. Thankfully no lasting effects. There ARE groups of people who vaccinations are not a good fit for.
This does not make me anti-vaxx, but I do believe everyone should take their own medical histories and the risks into account and keep an open mind that this topic is not black and white. Some children for example are allergic to eggs, and thus cannot take MMR or Flu shots.
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ABeautifulDistraction wrote: »I have Hashimoto's / autoimmune issues and when I have gotten a flu shot I have a bad reaction and I still get the flu. The last time I got a flu shot was 2004 and I ended up being really ill. I am supportive of other people getting them if they feel that they work for them.
I have Hashimoto's and Scleroderma and 3 of my specialists (pulmonologist, cardiologist and endocrinologist) insist I do NOT get the flu shot because I am at much higher risk for complications. Also, it makes my children more likely to have vaccine injuries - in fact my oldest son had a serious reaction to the chicken pox vaccine. Thankfully no lasting effects. There ARE groups of people who vaccinations are not a good fit for.
This does not make me anti-vaxx, but I do believe everyone should take their own medical histories and the risks into account and keep an open mind that this topic is not black and white. Some children for example are allergic to eggs, and thus cannot take MMR or Flu shots.
Most comments on this thread have acknowledged that there are people for whom the vaccine is not safe,and I don't think anyone is advocating that everyone should have it,regardless of allergies or health issues. It's precisely because some people can't have it or,due to immunity issues,may not respond by building immunity ,that "herd immunity "is important because it may help to protect people like you.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
It is pure speculation because the International Medical Council on Vaccination is full of woo. It's a site full of anti-vaxxer conspiracies disguised as medical knowledge, i.e. alternative facts.
In the scientific community, there is no doubt about the efficacy of herd immunity and the good that vaccinations do.8 -
I'm all for them. I know they aren't perfect. However, already this year I know two families who have been struck by the flu. In one family, everybody got the flu. In the other family, everyone got the flu except for the two people who got the flu shot. It seems like there is very little risk in getting the shot yourself, and possibly a large (maybe even life-saving) benefit.4
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janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?
Are you talking about a known like polio or an emotional issue of unknowns like the Flu shot?0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?
Are you talking about a known like polio or an emotional issue of unknowns like the Flu shot?
I do not understand this question. Are you saying that the polio vaccine is more "known" than the flu vaccine? Or that the "emotional issue" is stronger when it comes to the flu vaccine?
When you referred to "past shots" in childhood, I assumed you were referring to more than just the flu vaccine.
Are you meaning to say that you think the flu vaccine may contribute to autoimmune disorders, but the polio vaccine doesn't?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
There is not concrete evidence in either direction that will stand up in a court room as far as I know. That is why this subject is based on emotions because the concrete science is not there for the full professional medical field to know the actual answers.
If one group says it's happening and we shouldn't get immunized and the other group says there is no evidence it is happening . . . well, the second group is right.
So why is the first group making an argument for which there is no evidence and why should their fears serve as an excuse to allow preventable diseases to flourish?
Are you talking about a known like polio or an emotional issue of unknowns like the Flu shot?
I do not understand this question. Are you saying that the polio vaccine is more "known" than the flu vaccine? Or that the "emotional issue" is stronger when it comes to the flu vaccine?
When you referred to "past shots" in childhood, I assumed you were referring to more than just the flu vaccine.
Are you meaning to say that you think the flu vaccine may contribute to autoimmune disorders, but the polio vaccine doesn't?
In my mind the results of getting Polio is well known. Where a flu shot protects one from getting the flu to any worthwhile degree is not medically proven today.
My brain would tell me 60 years ago the Polio vaccinations were less safe because they gave some polio. Since flu shots are still annually that drives up the risk of something going wrong. We know autoimmune diseases are on the rise but the causes are still basically unknown because there can be many different causes with the same results.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »kassierodriguez1 wrote: »Against. I have never gotten them. I have never had any shots. I have been around people with the flu. And have yet to get it. I'm very healthy
200 dead in Washington
47 dead in Idaho
32 dead in North Carolina
The list goes on and on.
But hey, at least you're healthy, even though you've exposed yourself tot he flu and are no doubt a transmission vector. You sure showed those ridiculous doctors how dumb they are!
@xmicahx your first link drives home how the flu risks mainly are for those near death before getting the flu and is the group the shots do not seem to work very well.
"The vast majority of this season’s deaths involved seniors with underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes. Snohomish County reported the median age for its 36 flu-related deaths was 82 years old; all had underlying conditions, according to the Snohomish Health District."
It seems eating and moving in ways that prevent heart disease, respiratory disease and diabetes is perhaps the best way to prevent death while having the flu.
I do wish there was valid unbiased medical data on this subject but until that day comes this will be more of an emotional issue. Everyone who is free to make their own decision should do so.
If the vaccine is less effective for those at a higher risk of death, there is an even stronger moral case to be made that those of us at lower risk should get vaccinated. If it is more effective for us, we can help reduce transmission to those for whom the vaccine is less effective and face a higher risk of death or serious complications.
Why wouldn't I want to help with that?
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/27/a-shot-never-worth-taking-the-flu-vaccine-by-kelly-brogan-md/
Most everyone wants to help with that.
Sadly there is not independently verifiable info that vaccinations like the flu shots do more good than harm and that is why we are posting emotional thoughts because there is not solid medical info as to the net good/harm of getting flu shots.
As one with an earned terminal degree in healthcare I have studied this subject post graduate for the past 20 years because our kids were born in 1997. I know and appreciate Epidemiology and the many factors of Public Health.
How many of our autoimmune diseases of today may be related to past shots when have had since childhood?
As long as those in healthcare question efficacy of things like the flu shots the masses will have questions too.
There is no one posting in this tread that can support getting or NOT getting the flu shot with concrete medical facts today.
This tread and the next one like it will be based on people's belief systems and not concrete medical data because the concrete medical data is not Googleable. Yes there are bits and pieces of pro and con data that we then use use to support our belief systems.
The idea that autoimmune diseases may be linked to "past shots" seems like pure speculation. Is there any evidence to suggest this is the case?
I've studied up a lot on auto-immune disorders because I have them (Type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto's). There are 2 things needed for most of these auto-immune diseases:
1. DNA. Specifically, people like me have problematic versions of HLA genes (passed through chromosome 6).
2. Environmental trigger. This is why not everybody in my family has type 1 diabetes despite also having the same DNA problem. Something needs to trigger the auto-immune response. In the case of type 1 diabetes, only about 5% of us with the DNA are triggered. This is why I don't know anybody else in my blood line with type 1... I have to go up and down the family tree for so many generations that the nearest relative is likely that kid who got sick and died 300 years ago, blamed on either a flu or for an unidentified illness. The fact that some siblings both were triggered while other entire families carry the genes with nobody getting triggered is likely bad luck. For the population as a whole, it is about 5% of those who have the genes mentioned in #1.
The environmental trigger can vary widely, but is usually something that your immune system SHOULD attack. Sometimes you might hear an uninformed type 1 exclaim that the flu caused them to get diabetes, or chicken pox caused them to get diabetes... which may be partially true if the flu or chicken pox was the trigger in their individual circumstance.
There might be an argument to be made that the risk of a flu vaccine triggering another auto-immune disease in someone with the problem HLA genes is so much greater than the risk of getting the flu (which could also trigger the auto-immune response). I don't support that viewpoint, but that doesn't make the point invalid. This is a gray area where I'm not sure anybody is absolutely right or wrong on either side.2 -
It was the HLA B27 factor that I tripped over.0
This discussion has been closed.
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