Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Flu shots? For them or against ?
Options
Replies
-
This thread was the impetus I needed to get my flu shot. No reason not to, just hadn't got around to it. Plus one for the herd.13
-
Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.4 -
rhtexasgal wrote: »Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.
I totally agree about hygiene! But as a uc sufferer I'd like to add, you are lucky that you've been in remission for several years and I'm happy for you. Other ibd sufferers are less fortunate and,despite being careful with health and diet,have no choice but to take strong immunosuppressant medication which makes us more vulnerable to infection.3 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »rhtexasgal wrote: »Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.
I totally agree about hygiene! But as a uc sufferer I'd like to add, you are lucky that you've been in remission for several years and I'm happy for you. Other ibd sufferers are less fortunate and,despite being careful with health and diet,have no choice but to take strong immunosuppressant medication which makes us more vulnerable to infection.
I totally agree with you and understand that I am one of the lucky ones, just as I understand that the UC could return with no warning! Flu shots did not work for me and my immune system just as it DOES work for others with compromised immune systems. Everyone's genetic history and body chemistry is different ...2 -
rhtexasgal wrote: »comptonelizabeth wrote: »rhtexasgal wrote: »Poor hygiene should also be considered more of a risk of spreading the flu than people who do not get the flu shot. Every day, I witness people with appalling lack of "germ manners" as my kids used to call it. Sneezing without covering their mouths, spreading that viral love around. Or, sneezing into their hands and then immediately grasping the door knob, shopping cart handles or that bag of rice off the grocery store shelf. I make a conscious effort every day to keep my hands away from my face and to wash my hands often. The gym is probably one of the worst places and I get made fun of (in a joking way) about wiping down a machine before and after I use it, as well as any weight machines and free weights.
Good health to me means good diet, good exercise and good hygiene ... I have been able to stay healthy and keep my ulcerative colitis in remission for several years because of these good habits. With my job working with several hundreds boys each week from the ages of 6 through 15, I am exposed to everything from colds and flu to strep throat and stomach viruses. I am a prime candidate to pick up every illness around and yet, I have not been sick for several years now ...
The bottom line is that you should do what you feel you need to do health-wise without being judgmental about others choices.
I totally agree about hygiene! But as a uc sufferer I'd like to add, you are lucky that you've been in remission for several years and I'm happy for you. Other ibd sufferers are less fortunate and,despite being careful with health and diet,have no choice but to take strong immunosuppressant medication which makes us more vulnerable to infection.
I totally agree with you and understand that I am one of the lucky ones, just as I understand that the UC could return with no warning! Flu shots did not work for me and my immune system just as it DOES work for others with compromised immune systems. Everyone's genetic history and body chemistry is different ...
Very true. Long may your remission continue!2 -
jordanchamzuk wrote: »Wanna see what other people think about this topic.
I for one am very neutral on it. Working in Healthcare I see if fit. However I also see negative effects of it.
What's your thoughts?
I am against the flu shot but everyone needs to decide for themselves.
My husband and I both had bad reactions from it. I last had the flu shot in 2003.. I was sick for two months.. haven't been that sick since..my husband had the flew shot twice last one was 2009 both times he got severely sick... haven't been that sick since..
We do get sick here and there but it last maybe a week if that...:)3 -
While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/1
-
While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/
The one I get (in the uk) isn't a live vaccine3 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/
The one I get (in the uk) isn't a live vaccine
Yeah, the Australian one isn't a live vaccine, either.2 -
I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
2 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
Agreed. Though there have been isolated cases in the UK of parents contracting polio after their babies have been vaccinated- apparently from changing nappies. Which may or may not be down to adults not keeping up with their own boosters (and not washing their hands after changing their babies !)0 -
paperpudding wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »My children do get flu shots every year. Their annual physicals always take place late summer or early fall, around the time the doctors get the vaccine in...so since we're already in the office, they get the shot (or mist, if it's deemed effective...this year it was shots only).
I never get the flu shot. I suppose I am relying on herd immunity from my family. For me it would mean a special trip to the doctor for the shot, and I never seem to fit it in. So far I've been lucky.
If you are in the US, many pharmacies offer them on a walk-in basis. It's easy to fit in with other errands.
I'm not in the US. Maybe that's why I never gave serious thought to it. I regard flu as just a more serious version of the common cold. But maybe I'm wrong.
If you read through the thread you will see explanations of how you are wrong.
ETA - and not sure how being in the US or not changes that - you are wrong on this ,wherever you live.
I agree, but flu shots is just not part of the normal conversations I hear around me. Maybe they're available, maybe they're not, but it isn't part of our reality.0 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
This is the newest argument used by anti-vax doctors like the two younger Drs Sears who make money selling bogus medical exemptions to scared parents.2 -
Yeah, flu shots in the US aren't live either.1
-
While I am supposed to get the flu vaccine every year due to being asthmatic and suffering from chronic bronchitis/heavily scarred lungs, I do not get it. Problem is that live virus vaccines spread the very diseases they are supposed to protect against...so needlessly vaccinating causes more outbreaks of the disease. This is due to viral shedding which makes a recently vaccinated person a carrier and spreader of the disease for weeks to months after being vaccinated. I don't want to make vulnerable people sick just to get a vaccine that I don't really need...flu will not kill me in my current state of health. My chronic conditions do mean that flu could kill me when I get elderly so I will probably take it then and ensure I quarantine myself so I don't get anyone around me sick. https://www.westonaprice.org/press/studies-show-that-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/
The flu shot is not live. And flu mist is not even being used this year.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
Poster is also wrong about live vaccines spreading the disease: if that were so, vaccines that are live vaccines would result in outbreaks of the disease. The main live vaccines used in western world are measles, mumps, rubella varicella ( chicken pox)
Use of these has not resulted in more outbreaks of the disease - would be pointless vaccinating if that were so.
The flu mist was attenuated, but is not being used this year, at least in the US. The live polio vaccine has been known to revert and cause disease. The US switched to inactivated vaccine in 2000 I believe. It was rare. I have not heard of the other vaccines you mentioned doing this.0 -
To clear things up, I am not anti vaccine. I have vaccinated my kids and myself and we were in the priority group for the swine flu vaccine. My teenager is HPV and meningitis vaccinated. I am just not for vaccinating against everything under the sun especially when said vaccine is not that effective (48%) and increases risk to the most vulnerable in the population. In addition recent studies show that vaccinating every year against the flu gives less and less protection each year you do it...which is concerning. What is point of using a vaccine for increased immunity when young and healthy if it then becomes useless when you reach old age and need it most? Here are some references/sources for my views. Everyone is entitled to make their own cost benefit risk analysis on vaccines. Cambridge University study showing viral shedding is real
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/infection-control-and-hospital-epidemiology/article/div-classtitleduration-of-virus-shedding-after-trivalent-intranasal-live-attenuated-influenza-vaccination-in-adultsdiv/B2186D69436BA25A2775ED0CEFEEE313
Canadian study showing repeat flu shots every year can backfire...and reduce immunity.
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/02/studies-shed-light-effects-serial-flu-shots-current-vaccines-benefits
John Hopkins University Medical School study which states that individuals recently vaccinated with a live virus vaccine can pass the disease on...and how it is a public health concern for immune compromised individuals. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24582311
University of Oxford fact sheet that clearly states people who receive the nasal flu vaccine should avoid immune compromised people for two weeks because of risk of passing on the disease. In same sheet also says that studies show the vaccine does not work all that well. http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/nasal-flu-vaccine2 -
Of course anyone who gets a live vaccine should stay away from immunosuppressed people for two weeks but most flu vaccines are not live.1
-
I agree the flu shot is not a live vaccine. My major health concern is not the flu but cancer. The only prevention for cancer that I know about is a bullet proof immune system so that is my objective which in turn offers protection from the flu and other stuff as well. Since cancer does not even seem to be a disease since it has no concrete cause like the flu does I see no way there will ever be a cure for it. While I have never seen proof the flu vaccine works for the most part it seems to help some people while per posts here while it seems to hurt some people per post.
There just is not any third party medical evidence offering concrete medical reasons to get the flu shot that I have seen. I do not remember when I had the flu but I do remember the negative results of my last flu shot.
1 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't think any flu vaccines are live vaccines - curious as to where poster lives that she believes this is so.
I'm in the UK and my four-year old had the flu nasal spray which I was told is a live (attenuated) vaccine. This was offered to all two to seven year olds I believe. My daughter won't be able to have the live one again as since having it I've become immuno-suppressed. There's no way I can stay away from my little one for two weeks so she'll have to have the flu jab (not live) next winter (which will cause problems as she doesn't like having jabs).
My GP insisted on vaccinating my entire family because I'm now immuno-suppressed. I wasn't too popular that day but none of us suffered any ill-effects apart from a bit of pain from the jab itself.
3
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 911 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions