Is it healthy to completely cut out carbs from my diet?

VintageFeline wrote: »

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nvmomketo wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

hughiepie wrote: »

Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.

hughiepie wrote: »

Hello_its_Dan wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

Hello_its_Dan wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.

Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.

Terrible advice and one to avoid.

Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber

What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!

Any good cut of meat (especially eating a varied diet of meats) along with healthy fats from things like eggs and butter will provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body needs to thrive.

Phytonutrients - a catch-phrase used by the health food gurus backed by lots of correlation studies that do not offer direct cause/results to justify needing them.

Fiber - needed only to clean out the residue of higher carb diets

Again, as has been posted before, carbs are not a required macro and the body can and does manufacture any glycogen that it needs from both protein and fat.

Still not advised.
You'll be hard pressed to find an RD or RN who'd agree with the above statement.

I'm an RN and I do agree that carbs are not required, as do my two cardiologist friends and colleagues.

As someone in the medical profession you would seriously think we are at optimum health by eliminating all fruit, vegetables, grains, nuts and pretty much all dairy living purely on animal products and you claim that your cardiologist and colleagues agree? I highly doubt that. Carbs are not required so I guess in that aspect you are correct. We can live without them but there is a vast difference between living and living to optimum health. I get a LOW carb diet but a ZERO carb diet is nothing we should be striving for.
You can be on anyndiet imaginable but if you consume more calories than you burn you will gain weight and if you burn more than you consume you will l9se weight. This isn't bad advise from the 70's but fact.

You. I like you.

Most of the people who come to MFP inquiring about giving up all carbs are speaking erroneously about "grains" or "junk food" or "starches" and they were ignorant to begin with that carbohydrates are a part of many nutrient dense foods like fruits and vegetables, dairy, etc. The conversation gets off track in a very predictable way...

A poster says" "I'm thinking of giving up all carbs, is it possible and can it be healthy?"
Many posters: "Why do you think that is necessary? Do you have a medical reason to give up carbs? Do you really mean ZERO carbs or do you mean just giving up starchy foods, grains, sugary 'junk' foods? Do you realize that fruits and vegetables contain carbs as their primary macro nutrient"
Other posters: "I feel great on LCHF! I've finally been able to lose weight and keep it off and it helped me with XYZ medical condition"
Couple of posters "Carbs are ESSENTIAL for health! Of course it isn't healthy to eat nothing but meat and oil!"
Hard core defenders of LC: "WELL.... technically they aren't necessary. Look at the Innuits! You can get all the nutrients you need from animal products (maybe not explicitly stating that it would involve eating rare/raw meat and organ meats"

The conversation is the same, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Right down to the fact that the OP almost never makes another appearance, either put off by the fighting, or embarrassed that they didn't realize that carbs are part of fruits and veggies, or they are frightened by the concept of eating organ meat!

The fact of the matter remains, that while it may be possible to achieve adequate levels of nutrition from nothing but animal products and supplements, it is just not necessary for anyone to eat that way, nor is it realistic for most people to commit that heavily to such an extreme diet. I don't understand, and this is a sincere question for those LCHF proponents who are stating that carbs are not required... do you eat a zero carb diet? Do you tell your doctor that you eat this way? What is their reaction? Is your lifestyle one that you really enjoy? When you go to dinner at a restaurant, or a friend's house - do you really eat nothing but meat? How do people in your life respond to that? Do you have children? Do you encourage them to eat carbs in the form of grains, dairy, fruits and veggies? If not, what do their pediatricians think?

I do not eat zero carb although it seems to fall that way about one or two days per week if you exclude coconut oil. I have tried an all animal challenge (close to zero carb) but I did not find it enjoyable at the time.

My doctor recommended a ketogenic diet. He joked he should put me up on a wall of fame for my success with it. He still thinks I should eat more liver though.

I really enjoy my ketogenic lifestyle. I love how it makes me feel. As a celiac, I am used to avoiding foods that are not good for me so restricting a few filler foods was no big deal after dropping so many already.

Yes. I will often eat nothing but meat when I go out because other foods are often not safe (celiac). Usually I will have a small side of veggies.

People in my life are happy for my improved health and supportive of the choices I made to improve my health. People who are not close to me are impressed that I improved my health while eating bacon, cheese and nuts everyday.

I have three children. I do not encourage them to eat sugar or grains. I limit those, although my middle son, who coincidentally looks the least healthy and complains of fatigue frequently, eats more starches and rice than I'd like. I encourage vegetable consumption. I don't mind fruits, although I do not buy the higher GI ones, very often. I can't afford to feed them all just meat, cheese, dairy and nuts but I don't limit that either. My kids are all athletic and lean. They are also taller than most and quite smart (winning academic awards and contests).

Their doctor has never asked much about their diet. My oldest has food allergies and all kids are gluten free. The doctor knows that.

Are they gluten free because they're also intolerant or because it's just safer for you not to have it in the house? Do they eat wheat products elsewhere (school, out with friends etc)?

I'm always kind of curious about parents who almost entirely share their way of eating with their kids. I've seen both sides of the coin. I guess i'm actually more interested in the kids' point of view once they're grown up, if they've sustained that way of eating or moved away from it.

Two of my three kids are gluten intolerant. Because gluten intolerance (and celiac) can present with no obvious gut symptoms (like anemia, stunted growth or brain fog) we felt it was safest to make everybody gluten free. My son who eats the most starches may be fine with gluten. We're not sure. We won't risk it while he is growing and developing. I imagine he test as an adult if he chooses to eat gluten. Because I have celiac disease they are at risk and will need to test for celiac every couple of years if they choose to have any gluten.

I am fairly confident that they don't eat gluten away from home. We homeschool so they are not away from me for meals a lot. When they do go out, we make a point of sending safe food, an lots of it, so they can share with friends. Bringing food is made positive rather than being an odd man out.

They are in grades 9, 7 and 4, and so far they have been okay with this.

crzycatlady1 wrote: »

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nvmomketo wrote: »

VintageFeline wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

hughiepie wrote: »

Pretty much the vast majority of people "trying" to lose weight are still back in the seventies and reading questionable research. All one needs to read is "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. It is not about calories in vs calories out. This has been proven to be a complete falsehood. If you eat more, your body boosts its metabolic rate to burn those extra calories. Ever notice how you sometimes feel really warm/hot after a big meal? That is your metabolism at work. As for carbohydrates, your body doesn't need them, it can manufacture all the sugar it needs. I challenge anyone here to name me one essential carbohydrate. The body requires essential amino acids (that's protein) and it requires essential fatty acids (that's fat), but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. We also eat too often. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day is overkill and unnecessary. Try cutting out the least important meal of the day and the 3 snacks.

hughiepie wrote: »

Hello_its_Dan wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

Hello_its_Dan wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

So @EbonyDahlia you don't agree that having vegetables everyday is essential? Strange when that should be close to 50% of our diet. That astounds me, unless you are not knowledgeable enough to realise that vegetables have carbs.

Carbs are not an essential nutrient, therefore vegetables are not essential. Vegetables can certainly contribute to a healthy diet but they are by no means needed. There are actually quite a few carnivores and almost zero carbers on MFP who are thriving without plant matter in their diets. As long as you eat quality animal products, it is not difficult to maintain excellent health without plants in one's diet.

Terrible advice and one to avoid.

Vitamins
Minerals
Phytonutrients
Fiber

What do you suggest?
Supplements?
C'mon!

Any good cut of meat (especially eating a varied diet of meats) along with healthy fats from things like eggs and butter will provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body needs to thrive.

Phytonutrients - a catch-phrase used by the health food gurus backed by lots of correlation studies that do not offer direct cause/results to justify needing them.

Fiber - needed only to clean out the residue of higher carb diets

Again, as has been posted before, carbs are not a required macro and the body can and does manufacture any glycogen that it needs from both protein and fat.

Still not advised.
You'll be hard pressed to find an RD or RN who'd agree with the above statement.

I'm an RN and I do agree that carbs are not required, as do my two cardiologist friends and colleagues.

As someone in the medical profession you would seriously think we are at optimum health by eliminating all fruit, vegetables, grains, nuts and pretty much all dairy living purely on animal products and you claim that your cardiologist and colleagues agree? I highly doubt that. Carbs are not required so I guess in that aspect you are correct. We can live without them but there is a vast difference between living and living to optimum health. I get a LOW carb diet but a ZERO carb diet is nothing we should be striving for.
You can be on anyndiet imaginable but if you consume more calories than you burn you will gain weight and if you burn more than you consume you will l9se weight. This isn't bad advise from the 70's but fact.

You. I like you.

Most of the people who come to MFP inquiring about giving up all carbs are speaking erroneously about "grains" or "junk food" or "starches" and they were ignorant to begin with that carbohydrates are a part of many nutrient dense foods like fruits and vegetables, dairy, etc. The conversation gets off track in a very predictable way...

A poster says" "I'm thinking of giving up all carbs, is it possible and can it be healthy?"
Many posters: "Why do you think that is necessary? Do you have a medical reason to give up carbs? Do you really mean ZERO carbs or do you mean just giving up starchy foods, grains, sugary 'junk' foods? Do you realize that fruits and vegetables contain carbs as their primary macro nutrient"
Other posters: "I feel great on LCHF! I've finally been able to lose weight and keep it off and it helped me with XYZ medical condition"
Couple of posters "Carbs are ESSENTIAL for health! Of course it isn't healthy to eat nothing but meat and oil!"
Hard core defenders of LC: "WELL.... technically they aren't necessary. Look at the Innuits! You can get all the nutrients you need from animal products (maybe not explicitly stating that it would involve eating rare/raw meat and organ meats"

The conversation is the same, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Right down to the fact that the OP almost never makes another appearance, either put off by the fighting, or embarrassed that they didn't realize that carbs are part of fruits and veggies, or they are frightened by the concept of eating organ meat!

The fact of the matter remains, that while it may be possible to achieve adequate levels of nutrition from nothing but animal products and supplements, it is just not necessary for anyone to eat that way, nor is it realistic for most people to commit that heavily to such an extreme diet. I don't understand, and this is a sincere question for those LCHF proponents who are stating that carbs are not required... do you eat a zero carb diet? Do you tell your doctor that you eat this way? What is their reaction? Is your lifestyle one that you really enjoy? When you go to dinner at a restaurant, or a friend's house - do you really eat nothing but meat? How do people in your life respond to that? Do you have children? Do you encourage them to eat carbs in the form of grains, dairy, fruits and veggies? If not, what do their pediatricians think?

I do not eat zero carb although it seems to fall that way about one or two days per week if you exclude coconut oil. I have tried an all animal challenge (close to zero carb) but I did not find it enjoyable at the time.

My doctor recommended a ketogenic diet. He joked he should put me up on a wall of fame for my success with it. He still thinks I should eat more liver though.

I really enjoy my ketogenic lifestyle. I love how it makes me feel. As a celiac, I am used to avoiding foods that are not good for me so restricting a few filler foods was no big deal after dropping so many already.

Yes. I will often eat nothing but meat when I go out because other foods are often not safe (celiac). Usually I will have a small side of veggies.

People in my life are happy for my improved health and supportive of the choices I made to improve my health. People who are not close to me are impressed that I improved my health while eating bacon, cheese and nuts everyday.

I have three children. I do not encourage them to eat sugar or grains. I limit those, although my middle son, who coincidentally looks the least healthy and complains of fatigue frequently, eats more starches and rice than I'd like. I encourage vegetable consumption. I don't mind fruits, although I do not buy the higher GI ones, very often. I can't afford to feed them all just meat, cheese, dairy and nuts but I don't limit that either. My kids are all athletic and lean. They are also taller than most and quite smart (winning academic awards and contests).

Their doctor has never asked much about their diet. My oldest has food allergies and all kids are gluten free. The doctor knows that.

Are they gluten free because they're also intolerant or because it's just safer for you not to have it in the house? Do they eat wheat products elsewhere (school, out with friends etc)?

I'm always kind of curious about parents who almost entirely share their way of eating with their kids. I've seen both sides of the coin. I guess i'm actually more interested in the kids' point of view once they're grown up, if they've sustained that way of eating or moved away from it.

Two of my three kids are gluten intolerant. Because gluten intolerance (and celiac) can present with no obvious gut symptoms (like anemia, stunted growth or brain fog) we felt it was safest to make everybody gluten free. My son who eats the most starches may be fine with gluten. We're not sure. We won't risk it while he is growing and developing. I imagine he test as an adult if he chooses to eat gluten. Because I have celiac disease they are at risk and will need to test for celiac every couple of years if they choose to have any gluten.

I am fairly confident that they don't eat gluten away from home. We homeschool so they are not away from me for meals a lot. When they do go out, we make a point of sending safe food, an lots of it, so they can share with friends. Bringing food is made positive rather than being an odd man out.

They are in grades 9, 7 and 4, and so far they have been okay with this.

Totally OT but I didn't know you homeschooled, us too sort of- we do an online program through a local school district. Grades 6, 4 and 3. I was traditionally homeschooled from K-12

My oldest is a bright kid, and probably very mildly autistic, so staying home was the best option. It worked out so well we just kept doing it. He wants to do some high school next year (starts in grade 10 here) and I am missing him already.

Completely cut out carbs? Your body uses carbs for energy. Best way to remember, the out take calories burn should be far more than the intake.

psuLemon wrote: »

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nvmomketo wrote: »

RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

dawnflowers104 wrote: »

Here's the thing though...for all of you that think its only about calories serious question... Why is it that you can take one person on a 1500 calorie diet (hypothetically speaking) eating say 30% calories from carbs and another person on 1500 calories (same calories) and eating say 60% calories from carbs and the person eating 1500 calories eating 30% carbs loses more fat/weight than the person eating calories with 60% carbs. Something has to be said about this....What in your opinion is the answer if it is only about calories? Would you agree that every person is different? Thoughts?

There's a thread on a 4000 kcal ketogenic overfeeding 21 day challenge here: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10515890/ketogenic-overfeeding-n-1-experiment-by-wittrock#latest He's done today, and so far he's down about 2 lbs.

I'd say there is a lot of variation between how people react to diet.

That is too short to measure isn't it?

Let's guesstimate that he has lost around 7lbs of water weight in that time due to not processing carbs, then that would mean he has gained around 5lb of fat.

What am I missing?

You're missing that he did a "bod pod" measurement at the start, and he was 5.2% body fat. After 20 days he was 5.0% body fat. He's a physique competitor and very very lean.

Plus he's been ketogenic for over a year already. All he did was increase calories somewhere between 50 and 100%.... and basically stayed the same weight (down 2 lbs).

That is what he suggested, but he didn't baseline calories, so you can't really say that. I have to watch the last 2 videos, but it really would have been nice if he added that final control.

True, if he normally ate around 3K he would have been over feeding by only 33%.

But the way he acted while overeating... I'd be surprised if he normally ate more than 2700 kcal. My guess is that it might have even been lower - he could normally have been slightly underfeeding himself.

Weighing and logging all foods can be an eye-opener. I suggest you try logging 1/4 cup (by weight) each peanut butter, chicken breast, cooked carrots, and cooked pasta.

After your experiment guess which one contributes most to weight gain.

WinoGelato wrote: »

Thank you. I appreciate the response. I am hoping that others who are saying that they don't think any carbs are necessary would also take the time to respond as I am respectfully curious. This is something so many LCHF people are so passionate about, I'm interested in hearing how the overall commitment to it impacts day to day life especially for those with children, and not just continuing to argue, and dissect words and studies on an internet forum.

And again, I recognize there is a difference b/w LCHF, Ketogenic levels, and NO/NEGLIGIBLE Carbs and that those differences probably impact the range of tolerance for various social complexities as well.

I'll answer this one as far as it concerns me and mine...

I am the only person in the house that eats Keto/Carnivore. I have chosen to eat this way because carbs/starches are triggers for me and do not keep me sated like protein and fats do. I can eat half an avocado or an average sized cut of meat (a pork chop for example) and I will feel full and happy for hours, but if I eat a baked potato, even smothered in butter and cheese and I will want another and another until I have eaten to the point I am stuffed and uncomfortable. Same with pasta and rice - I can easily eat a pot of either (and this is a large part of the reason I got as large as I did). I do like veggies like cauliflower, broccoli and mushrooms (actually most veggies) and I still eat them occasionally. I also do the same with berries, but I have never been big on eating fruit (except for bananas and I could eat the entire bunch of bananas once I get started on those). I have never been much of a sweets eater and now I can barely stand the smell of super-sweet things, much less eat them.

My wife eats a typical diet that includes starches, fruit veggies and protein with some fats thrown in - not too many because she has had gallbladder problems and too much fat/grease causes problems for her.

My daughter is a typical picky teenager - she will eat chicken, beef and pork (depending on cut/cooking), pasta (esp. mac-n-cheese), pizza, fruit and a select few veggies. She does not eat potatoes (except as potato chips), rice, pasta sauce (the only way she eats tomatoes is in pizza sauce). She will also eat any sweet, snack-type junk food that we allow her to have (we do limit these, but still allow them in the house).

As far as my WOE and any impact on meals, it is really not noticeable with the exception of some teasing from my daughter about me not eating sweets and stuff like that. We always serve an animal protein with the evening meal (with just a little extra to accommodate me eating more than them) and my wife and daughter will share the sides that I don't eat. For lunch, since I am at work, I just go to the store once a week to get things like eggs and meat that I keep in the break room fridge, or I have leftovers from the previous night's meal. My co-workers have been watching me eat this way for so long now that they don't even bother to ask if I want sweets and the other crap that gets passed around and they also understand that I don't eat out for lunch.

In social situations outside of work - for example, eating out at a restaurant - I simply make choices that work with my WOE (since we do not eat vegetarian there area always options for me).

If you have more specific questions about my WOE choices, please ask and I will answer them as best I can.