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Is the 'fat acceptance' movement a good thing?
Replies
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I was quietly going about my own tracking and weight loss efforts (just started another go-round and try) and I think I stumbled into a group of people's discussions that are showing me that it's no different on a weight loss site where people are trying to lose weight, get fit and feel better about and within themselves than it is to be in society with those who JUDGE people who are not ideal weight. People here are really NO different in their judgements than those in society.
I was looking for interesting topics and stumbled into this one. It sure woke me up to what even those who are battling their own weight or have done so, really feel and think. There's a superiority complex and judgement happening here because people feel that they're either superior or know more than others because they're in here or have lost some weight. What a shame because many of those in here, rambling on and judging others will have issues in keeping the weight off too (been there and done it and trying again). I haven't quit trying but, I'm quitting being part of forums like this and going back into my quiet corner where I will do things on my own again. I don't like what's here and shown in real thinking behind those who are in here. Sad.
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Lovetobeslimmer2 wrote: »cbminstrel wrote: »Is this a very American thing? I'm over in England and haven't really heard of this 'Fat Acceptance' thing (far from it lol)...or have I just been hiding under a rock?! On the surface, it seemed like it might be a nice thing, but the more I've been reading the thread, the more it seems like a campaign dreamt up to keep high fat/calorie/cheap to make foods in the supermarkets.....
I'm so sorry but, I'm chuckling here because I know quite a few people in the U.K. who aren't exactly eating healthfully. The mashed potatoes, gravies, chips, etc., booze and whatever, consumed over there with pot pies are not really "health food fare", are they? So, how is it that you can say that fat acceptance is a campaign dreamt up to keep high fat/calorie/cheap to make foods in supermarkets when England's supermarkets are filled with high fat/high sugar/calorie dense foods that get washed down with a pint or two or 10?
Ok, I have to straighten up here and stop laughing as I'm not American but, I've heard of it.
Cbminstrel wasn't saying people in the UK are any healthier or have healthier diets,only that they hadn't heard of the fat acceptance movement? At least that's how I read it. I'm in the UK and hadn't heard of the movement either.2 -
Lovetobeslimmer2 wrote: »
Really? You think it's that simple and all boils down to that simple a statement or thought?
Do you really think that the majority of people who ask about fat acceptance are all trying to be "extremists...who want obesity to not only be accepted, but normalized and encouraged?"
Ask yourself why the OP is in the site at all then? Do you think that she's here to be an "extremist" and convert you and everyone else into "fat acceptors"?
Wow...what a naive and prejudiced statement to have made.
You an inferring something that I didn't say.
Not all are extremists, but the ones who are make the whole thing look bad. It's the same mechanic that makes rednecks believe that all Muslims have secret plans to blow them up.1 -
Lovetobeslimmer2 wrote: »Is happiness really only in a scale number or clothing size or fitting into the "normality of society"? There are thin people who are just as unhealthy as a plus sized person. They are on meds for blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes etc., get cancers or even hit by cars, trucks and buses.
It's in all the living I get to do because the number on the scale is a normal, healthy number. It's in the fact that my risk of high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes and cancer is lower because of the number on the scale. I've been fat, and I've been normal weight. Being fat sucks in every way. There's nothing about it that's better than being at a healthy weight.There is no size or weight that makes people happy in life in all reality, is there?
There's one that makes me happy.Health is all subjective and while studies have said that it's healthier to be slimmer/weigh less, there are all sorts of other factors that make people "healthy", right? Mental health is one factor as well. Being slim doesn't necessarily mean either.
We know for a fact that being overweight puts people at a higher risk of heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, strokes, and multiple types of cancer. It causes increased joint damage, vision problems, sleep apnea and depression.As you've said, be as healthy as we can be with the body that we have....and I'll add...no matter what our weight...as long as we can do what we need and want to do in Life.
Being as healthy as we can be means taking care of the body we have, which means giving it the proper nutrition and exercise to keep it running well. That proper nutrition means not over feeding it.2 -
Lovetobeslimmer2 wrote: »In my opinion Fat Acceptance is not a good thing. Now self love is a great thing! But I think too many people get those two things confused. You can love your body but still want to be healthy but promoting a unhealthy lifestyle of obesity is not good for anyone especially young people who struggle with a unhealthy weight already. Like someone else said either extreme is not healthy. Of course everyone's body type is different and we don't know someone's story so no one should judge or be cruel. However, we as a society need to promote healthy eating and getting away from the laziness that is taking over our society and instead getting out side and being active! Fat acceptance goes beyond looks, it's accepting the possibility of heart disease, diabetes, bone illnesses, and the list goes on... Everyone should love themselves how they are right now but they also need to love themselves enough to take care of the only body they are given.
I'm not disagreeing that being severely overweight is "not healthy" by any means nor, are people necessarily able to "love themselves" as an overweight person. Society won't let them. Deep down inside, everyone knows that in spite of what they say, they're not happy with being overweight either. No one truly is.
That being said though...what about the thin and "beautiful people" who are also not happy with themselves or their lives in spite of being thin, gorgeous, wealthy and having a plethora of yes people around them at all times? They're into drugs, drinking, plastic surgery, cosmetic procedures and end up living a lifestyle of every chasing that happiness, youth or whatever it is that they need to feel happy within themselves.
Is happiness really only in a scale number or clothing size or fitting into the "normality of society"? There are thin people who are just as unhealthy as a plus sized person. They are on meds for blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes etc., get cancers or even hit by cars, trucks and buses.
So, while I am agreeing with you, there's also a flip side to this as well. There is no size or weight that makes people happy in life in all reality, is there? Health is all subjective and while studies have said that it's healthier to be slimmer/weigh less, there are all sorts of other factors that make people "healthy", right? Mental health is one factor as well. Being slim doesn't necessarily mean either.
As you've said, be as healthy as we can be with the body that we have....and I'll add...no matter what our weight...as long as we can do what we need and want to do in Life.
Not sure where you live but the thin "beautiful" people get lots of criticism too. Just look at any thread about models or underweight celebrity and you will see that it is full of body shaming. It's acceptable to go on and on about how gross things people are and how real women have curves.2 -
Lovetobeslimmer2 wrote: »I was quietly going about my own tracking and weight loss efforts (just started another go-round and try) and I think I stumbled into a group of people's discussions that are showing me that it's no different on a weight loss site where people are trying to lose weight, get fit and feel better about and within themselves than it is to be in society with those who JUDGE people who are not ideal weight. People here are really NO different in their judgements than those in society.
I was looking for interesting topics and stumbled into this one. It sure woke me up to what even those who are battling their own weight or have done so, really feel and think. There's a superiority complex and judgement happening here because people feel that they're either superior or know more than others because they're in here or have lost some weight. What a shame because many of those in here, rambling on and judging others will have issues in keeping the weight off too (been there and done it and trying again). I haven't quit trying but, I'm quitting being part of forums like this and going back into my quiet corner where I will do things on my own again. I don't like what's here and shown in real thinking behind those who are in here. Sad.
Ironic since your posts are very judgemental as well. You seem to have strong prejudices against thin people
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Lovetobeslimmer2 wrote: »RaeBeeBaby wrote: »The show sounds like it's nothing but fat shaming.
Well, it's supposed to be about body acceptance and how the main character has come to love herself despite being obese. The last two seasons have had a lot of episodes about how awful and hateful people are by trying to fat shame her. It's kind of a train wreck. Hard to look away. I keep watching in the hopes that she will actually take some long term action to improve her health.
Is it her "health" that you're concerned with or, is it her above average size and looks? Be honest. What if she were to have perfect blood pressure, perfect cholesterol, perfect blood glucose, fit and able to do things even some thinner people can't do? Would you be saying the same things? Just curious as to how people think.
Whitney is far from healthy. If you watch the show you can see how many health difficulties she is having.4 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Not sure where you live but the thin "beautiful" people get lots of criticism too. Just look at any thread about models or underweight celebrity and you will see that it is full of body shaming. It's acceptable to go on and on about how gross things people are and how real women have curves.
Normal weight women and fit women get shamed all the time too and told that they look anorexic, that they need to "eat a burger" or that "bones are for dogs". You don't have to be underweight for someone to comment on your body. I'm currently at the higher end of normal and I get it. There are even people on MFP who question why someone who is within the normal range at all want to lose weight, as if there's something wrong with being less than a pound from overweight.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Not sure where you live but the thin "beautiful" people get lots of criticism too. Just look at any thread about models or underweight celebrity and you will see that it is full of body shaming. It's acceptable to go on and on about how gross things people are and how real women have curves.
Normal weight women and fit women get shamed all the time too and told that they look anorexic, that they need to "eat a burger" or that "bones are for dogs". You don't have to be underweight for someone to comment on your body. I'm currently at the higher end of normal and I get it. There are even people on MFP who question why someone who is within the normal range at all want to lose weight, as if there's something wrong with being less than a pound from overweight.
Yes I should have added that too. I'm BMI 20 and people make comments all the time .1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Not sure where you live but the thin "beautiful" people get lots of criticism too. Just look at any thread about models or underweight celebrity and you will see that it is full of body shaming. It's acceptable to go on and on about how gross things people are and how real women have curves.
Normal weight women and fit women get shamed all the time too and told that they look anorexic, that they need to "eat a burger" or that "bones are for dogs". You don't have to be underweight for someone to comment on your body. I'm currently at the higher end of normal and I get it. There are even people on MFP who question why someone who is within the normal range at all want to lose weight, as if there's something wrong with being less than a pound from overweight.
Yes I should have added that too. I'm BMI 20 and people make comments all the time .
Different people just seem to carry it differently. When I was at 21.6, I looked awful; as I have stated here before, like an alien from the X-Files. Admittedly, I have a pretty big *kitten* head anyway, but being 150 lbs at 5'10" just made it look so much worse. In retrospect, those saying that I was too skinny were right, but for the wrong reasons.
Now? I'm about done with another cutting phase that still has me almost 20 lbs. above that weight, though at a similar bodyfat. Definitely bigger, definitely stronger, definitely look better with wider shoulders and neck holding up this balloon of a noggin.1 -
This is something I struggle with too. Just like I struggle with the idea that obesity is a disease. I know it is by medical standards but to me it seems like an excuse. I'm obese myself but I find it hard to say I have a disease.
On the other hand, making fun of fat people is one of the last accepted prejudices on TV and film. I could never watch shows like Fresh Prince of Bel Air (aside from it being silly) because at least 2 times an episode someone would make fun of Uncle Phil's weight. Not sure why that fine, talented actor put up with it.
So no, people shouldn't be mocked or insulted because they are overweight, any more than they should if they're disabled. But neither should being obese or morbidly obese be accepted as being fine. Everyone's journey is their own, so I would never tell anyone they need to lose weight (just as I'd never want to hear it from some stranger), but I'm concerned about groups that make it seem like being very fat is totally fine and without consequences. It does have consequences and I'm dealing with them now in my 50s.
It's interesting that people like Melissa McCarthy and Rebel Wilson were both preachers of fat acceptance but then lost weight. I'm betting they didn't lose weight to be more accepted, but to be healthier.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »"Fat acceptance", as initially conceived, was about the overfat bringing to light and trying to change discriminative practices in pay, job acquisition, job security, promotions, and so forth.
At its fringes - which unfortunately are the most vocal group - "small fats" are somehow more privileged that "large fats" and any attempt to lose weight by their proclaimed members is seen as a betrayal of the highest order. Stores not carrying things in sizes of 20+ for women's clothing is seen as discrimination and complaints that clothing for larger people costs more - both of which don't match with the reality that there's less demand for wildly extreme sizes on any spectrum.
Mind, I'm a guy with a 28-inch inseam; last time I searched Amazon I found a total of fourteen selections in my waist and inseam sizes, most of which started at over $100. That's not discrimination, that's the reality of the marketplace for out-of-normal range clothing.
This fringe is little different from the pro-anorexia folks, and just as misguided. It's morphed into the notion that actual physical form doesn't matter at all as far as health, attractiveness, and a host of other things, including lauding lifestyle choices that are clearly self-destructive; if you disagree, you're clearly 'thin privileged' and 'a troll', both of which I've been repeatedly called by this same loudmouth fringe when asking what are apparently awkward reality-based questions about the movement.
At its very genesis, the underbelly of the movement had dubious beginnings. NAAFTA actually has roots in feeder fetish circles.
There's a link for this somewhere to be found on reddit, and I've seen it, but I don't have time to dig it up right now. The founder of NAAFTA was a feeder.
The original leaders of the other arm of fat acceptance who were trying to launch a movement latched onto him because he was getting somewhere (think Judy Freepsirit here) and a movement was born. These women didn't care that they were being used, as long as their political agenda was being furthered.
*NAAFA. Stupid autocorrect.
I was wondering why you were upset at the North American Free Trade Agreement.
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fattymcrunnerpants wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
From the article: "Lindsey Mazur, a dietitian, said some overweight people she works with are being denied surgeries and other care unless they lose weight first. In the workforce, some people are losing out on promotions because of their weight, she added."
This sounds like they want equal access to medical treatment and job opportunities, not special privileges.
Agreed, "special treatment", to me, indicates options that aren't or shouldn't be available to everyone. Access to medical care, and equal treatment in job performance is not special treatment.
I'll never in my life forget what a surgeon said to me after removing part of my thyroid. I had gone to him as I had a tumor growing on it. While I was in the hospital he told me that he hadn't made an effort to hide the large scar because I was "Fat, unattractive and didn't deserve to have the scar hidden". Surgeons USEUALLY try to cut along the neck folds to hide an obvious scar. I made a complaint to the hospital board but since I'm not a protected class nothing happened. That kind of behavior is not OK at all.
Whaaat!? That absolute creep!1 -
I haven't read one post here that supported 'shaming' fat people.Lovetobeslimmer2 wrote: »I was quietly going about my own tracking and weight loss efforts (just started another go-round and try) and I think I stumbled into a group of people's discussions that are showing me that it's no different on a weight loss site where people are trying to lose weight, get fit and feel better about and within themselves than it is to be in society with those who JUDGE people who are not ideal weight. People here are really NO different in their judgements than those in society.
I was looking for interesting topics and stumbled into this one. It sure woke me up to what even those who are battling their own weight or have done so, really feel and think. There's a superiority complex and judgement happening here because people feel that they're either superior or know more than others because they're in here or have lost some weight. What a shame because many of those in here, rambling on and judging others will have issues in keeping the weight off too (been there and done it and trying again). I haven't quit trying but, I'm quitting being part of forums like this and going back into my quiet corner where I will do things on my own again. I don't like what's here and shown in real thinking behind those who are in here. Sad.
Nobody here has bragged about teasing obese people on the street, or mocking them. Well except joking about the poor horse that was severely overloaded by Whitney, but that criticism was valid and she put herself out there with her reality show.
Nothing is wrong with recognizing what is essentially a fixable health epidemic from obesity.6 -
Original Question: Is the 'fat acceptance' movement a good thing?
My opinion - No.2 -
Sorry I can't read this whole thread, but a lot depends on what you mean by acceptance. Today's society considers it politically correct to recognize and accommodate differences, so it would be wrong to criticize those who are fat. BUT we are also now a lot more intelligent and know that too much fat on a person is unhealthy, and is therefore a medical issue.
In my location there has been an annual Big and Beautiful contest running for 15 years now, and every year there is contentious debate about how it is promoting fatness. In actual fact, I think it is an ideal opportunity for fat ladies to feel good about themselves rather than hiding from negative elements around them.2 -
In my location there has been an annual Big and Beautiful contest running for 15 years now, and every year there is contentious debate about how it is promoting fatness. In actual fact, I think it is an ideal opportunity for fat ladies to feel good about themselves rather than hiding from negative elements around them.
How does being a fetish object help someone feel good about themselves in a positive way?
On 'My 600-lb Life' one woman said she would get free travel to resort conventions for that group, she was then in her 20's and said they treated her like a beauty queen. Fast forward a decade and she's struggling to take care of her child, not on a path to see her girl graduate from High School let alone enjoy grand kids. Her mate picked her because of her size and was very unsupportive of her losing weight to improve her health. No solid relationship is built on a fetish.3 -
In my location there has been an annual Big and Beautiful contest running for 15 years now, and every year there is contentious debate about how it is promoting fatness. In actual fact, I think it is an ideal opportunity for fat ladies to feel good about themselves rather than hiding from negative elements around them.
How does being a fetish object help someone feel good about themselves in a positive way?
On 'My 600-lb Life' one woman said she would get free travel to resort conventions for that group, she was then in her 20's and said they treated her like a beauty queen. Fast forward a decade and she's struggling to take care of her child, not on a path to see her girl graduate from High School let alone enjoy grand kids. Her mate picked her because of her size and was very unsupportive of her losing weight to improve her health. No solid relationship is built on a fetish.
You could argue all beauty pageants are built in the fetishizement of particular body types.1 -
In my location there has been an annual Big and Beautiful contest running for 15 years now, and every year there is contentious debate about how it is promoting fatness. In actual fact, I think it is an ideal opportunity for fat ladies to feel good about themselves rather than hiding from negative elements around them.
How does being a fetish object help someone feel good about themselves in a positive way?
On 'My 600-lb Life' one woman said she would get free travel to resort conventions for that group, she was then in her 20's and said they treated her like a beauty queen. Fast forward a decade and she's struggling to take care of her child, not on a path to see her girl graduate from High School let alone enjoy grand kids. Her mate picked her because of her size and was very unsupportive of her losing weight to improve her health. No solid relationship is built on a fetish.
You could argue all beauty pageants are built in the fetishizement of particular body types.
This is true, but who goes to a beauty pageant, expecting or even trying to pick up a partner from the line-up? I mean, I'm sure such creepers exist, but you get my point.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »This is true, but who goes to a beauty pageant, expecting or even trying to pick up a partner from the line-up? I mean, I'm sure such creepers exist, but you get my point.
Actually, it's pretty common and generally not considered creepy because the women are considered conventionally beautiful.
I had a friend who refused to date women whose hopes were larger than his.. And he wore a 28" Jean. He was considered particular by most, but again, because tiny women are conventionally attractive, his very restrictive criteria wouldn't have been labeled a fetish, nor would people assume the relationship one - dimensional.
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