"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

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Replies

  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,455 Member
    mph323 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    @3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.

    Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.

    OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.

    Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."

    But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.

    I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.

    Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.

    Really love this.

    But it seems to be based in a fundamental misunderstanding of the OP. OP wasn't describing the method that worked for them personally, they were saying that people who had success with other methods were offering "garbage advice."

    In reality, there are people who do really well while eliminating or heavily restricting certain foods. And there are other people who do really well without eliminating foods.

    For me personally, the concept of "good" and "bad" foods sets me up for failure and it sets me up for binges. The "garbage advice" OP is complaining about is what finally enabled me to lose weight and keep it off relatively easily.

    I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to eat [x] ever again because they know it's the best way for them. But the reason threads like this tend to get out of control is because people assume that their path to success is the only path.

    I read the OP as saying that people saying "CICO works for me, therefore it must work everyone" was the garbage advice.


    Could you point out where OP thinks CICO is "garbage advice"? Because I did not read that.

    People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.


    CICO is the ONLY way to lose weight. Semantics aside. Bottom line is to lose weight, eat less calories than your body is burning. How you arrive at your personal calorie deficit is up to each of us. It is helpful in practice, because I know from personal experience that because I have been successful this time (so far) because of a post I read on MFP saying enjoy all foods in moderation. -27 pounds since 1/1/17, so I say it can, and does work for me.

    But this is just not true, and keeps being repeated as a blanket statement. I'm fine with fitting a piece of pizza or a few small cookies into my calorie budget (and I only have 1200), and would eat all the foods if I limited myself to eating things that aren't very appealing to me, and in fact have done this in the past. I've successfully lost over 30 lbs and am continuing to lose without having to fight cravings every step of the way. I want to also note that my appetite isn't magically suppressed because I'm smaller and need fewer calories, and eating things I like is an important part of dealing with restriction in other areas of my diet. It's just offensive to generalize personal approaches to managing food to everyone

    It may not be true for you, but it is true for me. I am eating whatever I want, in moderation, and have lost 27 pounds in 79 days.

    Because for whatever reason, people can not eat certain foods without eating too much, doesn't mean others can not eat whatever they want in moderation, and successfully lose weight.

    It IS all about eating less calories than you burn for weight loss. The only difference is how you choose to spend your available calories. It is a personal decision what foods you eat. If you can not eat certain foods with out bingeing, by all means limit yourself. Some of us can, and do, fit the calories in each and every day, and stay within our calorie budget.

    But see, saying that it's what works for you and saying "People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. " is not the same at all. What works for me (eating smaller portions of things I like) wouldn't work for everyone, and I wouldn't say "People don't want to eat only the food that doesn't taste as good as what you want" because some people find success eating this way. I'm objecting to the blanket statement "People don't want..."

    psssttt...

    you guys agree. You are talking past each other. That seems to be happening a lot in this thread.

    I feel like I'm the only one seeing that. Maybe I'm confused.

    Oh geez, I just looked back and realized that what I picked up as a comment by newmeadow and others was actually a quote from OP. Sorry, my bad. I'll go delete my previous comments so as not to muddy the water.

    Nah, it's ok. I was starting to second guess my reading comprehension skills since so many people seem to be attributing thoughts to users that aren't actually there...
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,565 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    @3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.

    Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.

    OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.

    Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."

    But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.

    I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.

    Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.

    Really love this.

    But it seems to be based in a fundamental misunderstanding of the OP. OP wasn't describing the method that worked for them personally, they were saying that people who had success with other methods were offering "garbage advice."

    In reality, there are people who do really well while eliminating or heavily restricting certain foods. And there are other people who do really well without eliminating foods.

    For me personally, the concept of "good" and "bad" foods sets me up for failure and it sets me up for binges. The "garbage advice" OP is complaining about is what finally enabled me to lose weight and keep it off relatively easily.

    I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to eat [x] ever again because they know it's the best way for them. But the reason threads like this tend to get out of control is because people assume that their path to success is the only path.

    I read the OP as saying that people saying "CICO works for me, therefore it must work everyone" was the garbage advice.


    Could you point out where OP thinks CICO is "garbage advice"? Because I did not read that.

    People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.


    CICO is the ONLY way to lose weight. Semantics aside. Bottom line is to lose weight, eat less calories than your body is burning. How you arrive at your personal calorie deficit is up to each of us. It is helpful in practice, because I know from personal experience that because I have been successful this time (so far) because of a post I read on MFP saying enjoy all foods in moderation. -27 pounds since 1/1/17, so I say it can, and does work for me.

    But this is just not true, and keeps being repeated as a blanket statement. I'm fine with fitting a piece of pizza or a few small cookies into my calorie budget (and I only have 1200), and would eat all the foods if I limited myself to eating things that aren't very appealing to me, and in fact have done this in the past. I've successfully lost over 30 lbs and am continuing to lose without having to fight cravings every step of the way. I want to also note that my appetite isn't magically suppressed because I'm smaller and need fewer calories, and eating things I like is an important part of dealing with restriction in other areas of my diet. It's just offensive to generalize personal approaches to managing food to everyone

    It may not be true for you, but it is true for me. I am eating whatever I want, in moderation, and have lost 27 pounds in 79 days.

    Because for whatever reason, people can not eat certain foods without eating too much, doesn't mean others can not eat whatever they want in moderation, and successfully lose weight.

    It IS all about eating less calories than you burn for weight loss. The only difference is how you choose to spend your available calories. It is a personal decision what foods you eat. If you can not eat certain foods with out bingeing, by all means limit yourself. Some of us can, and do, fit the calories in each and every day, and stay within our calorie budget.

    But see, saying that it's what works for you and saying "People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. " is not the same at all. What works for me (eating smaller portions of things I like) wouldn't work for everyone, and I wouldn't say "People don't want to eat only the food that doesn't taste as good as what you want" because some people find success eating this way. I'm objecting to the blanket statement "People don't want..."

    psssttt...

    you guys agree. You are talking past each other. That seems to be happening a lot in this thread.

    I feel like I'm the only one seeing that. Maybe I'm confused.

    Oh geez, I just looked back and realized that what I picked up as a comment by newmeadow and others was actually a quote from OP. Sorry, my bad. I'll go delete my previous comments so as not to muddy the water.

    Nah, it's ok. I was starting to second guess my reading comprehension skills since so many people seem to be attributing thoughts to users that aren't actually there...

    I was following along OK until the quotes within quotes started getting into the double digits!
  • stelly76
    stelly76 Posts: 120 Member
    I actually used to eat more foods that aren't so good but stayed within my caloric goal. The problem was that I wasn't paying attention to my daily intake of sugars, fats, etc and I wasn't losing weight. Now I make better choices while still eating the things I enjoy. 1 or 2 slices of pizza with salad. A smaller portion of meatloaf, steak, etc with more veggies. If I have a burger AND fries, I'll forego the bun and use A-1 sauce instead and maybe slap some lettuce and tomato on the burger. If I couldn't eat the foods I love the most, I would just quit. But also, the more I eat healthier portions, the less I crave things like fast food and cake.
    And let's be real - your body processes 200 calories of chocolate much differently than it processes 200 calories of meats and vegetables. It's all about smart choices if you still want to enjoy what you put in your body.
  • prattiger65
    prattiger65 Posts: 1,657 Member
    edited March 2017
    I don't unstand the us and them mentality re moderation and abstaining.

    I think we all want folks to be sUccessfull.

    Pointing out one way that works as an individual potentially sheds some light where none existed for some.

    A blanket statement like "cutting out foods is garbage advice don't listen to them" would also be incorrect.

    I expect some like me would say "yeah cutting out foods didn't work for me" and I'd expect others to come in and say "best thing I ever did". We all fall somewhere and it's good to know there are options.


    Decided against it.......
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    I don't unstand the us and them mentality re moderation and abstaining.

    I think we all want folks to be sUccessfull.

    Pointing out one way that works as an individual potentially sheds some light where none existed for some.

    A blanket statement like "cutting out foods is garbage advice don't listen to them" would also be incorrect.

    I expect some like me would say "yeah cutting out foods didn't work for me" and I'd expect others to come in and say "best thing I ever did". We all fall somewhere and it's good to know there are options.


    Decided against it.......

    Haha I saw that:)
  • prattiger65
    prattiger65 Posts: 1,657 Member
    I don't unstand the us and them mentality re moderation and abstaining.

    I think we all want folks to be sUccessfull.

    Pointing out one way that works as an individual potentially sheds some light where none existed for some.

    A blanket statement like "cutting out foods is garbage advice don't listen to them" would also be incorrect.

    I expect some like me would say "yeah cutting out foods didn't work for me" and I'd expect others to come in and say "best thing I ever did". We all fall somewhere and it's good to know there are options.


    Decided against it.......

    Haha I saw that:)

    :)
  • BlueSkyShoal
    BlueSkyShoal Posts: 325 Member
    Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

    I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

    Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

    What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza. :)
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    ^^^Not only that adding every caveat or note would make posts incredibly long.
  • BlueSkyShoal
    BlueSkyShoal Posts: 325 Member
    edited March 2017
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

    I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

    Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

    What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza. :)

    To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories?

    Not really, since we live in a world where people follow diets like "drinking apple cider vinegar."

    More to the point, I think people who cut certain foods out of their diet do get some of the "I eat everything!" people looking down their noses at them. If you can eat anything and stay within your calories, then that's great. I can too--now. But when I started, I couldn't. I completely cut out a bunch of fatty foods, and it was a good decision. It didn't lead to the downfall of my diet, binging, etc etc etc. A lot of the foods I cut out I still don't eat. Ever. Because to eat them in a quantity that would make them "worth it" to me would be too many calories, and I'm not going to derive any satisfaction from eating a teensy portion (even though I could without 'cheating'.)

    Different people need different strategies to be successful.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,970 Member
    I'm confused here... if I "eat whatever I want" but stay under my daily allowance, I won't lose weight? So the science is bad? Or is the science just bad for people who don't actually stick to the plan?

    Somebody told me the best way to lose weight is to stop eating carbs. His reasoning was that he's willing to break the "don't go over your calories" rule but not the "don't eat sugar" rule.
This discussion has been closed.