"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
Replies
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AntoinetteAngus wrote: »To me this is extremely concerning coming from a 'so-called' Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer. You should be socially responsible and teach your client to aim to eat clean at least 70% of the time.
Why only 70 % of the time? Isn't it true that anyone who doesn't eat clean at least 85 % of the time kills puppies?
No, it's not true, because 70 % and 85 % are just as made up and arbitrary as "clean." Does that mean you wash your food if it falls on the floor?13 -
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I scratch my head when you say eat what you want.....and then show what experience you have for 30 years in nutrition.
I'm not a know it all, don't claim anything. Just kinda seemed strange, with all the bad food's out there. All the preservatives and crap they put in food now days. Maybe it's a 2 step process, lose weight by eating your favorite foods at less calories then maybe changing over to clean later on after you lose the weight.
How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? Isn't that kind of the point of preservatives, to keep food from going bad?
But seriously - eating clean is not a requirement for weight loss, or for overall health. There are plenty of nutrient dense processed foods with preservatives that can be incorporated into the context of a healthy diet. Additionally, eating "junk" food in moderation does not make a person unhealthy. What I think @ninerbuff has described about his approach, particularly with overweight and obese clients, is that simply losing weight, regardless of the types of foods one eats while losing, improves overall health. Then from there, it is possible to become more health and nutrition focused - but again, as has been said COUNTLESS times in this thread - telling someone they can eat what they want and still lose does not mean that they should eat nothing but junk food. Presuming that someone plans to eat nothing but junk food, simply because a personal trainer, or someone on the MFP boards tells them it is ok - is a strange assumption to make about someone.13 -
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WinoGelato wrote: »
That OP made a kittenpost specifically to start a flamewar.7 -
OK. I'm going to go have my 4 slices of pizza and still finish the day off 270 calories under my goal now. Or maybe I'll have a beer too, and only come in 140 under... (Keep in mind, those of us with more to lose have higher calorie goals, and can do that).6
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Here is exactly what it means to me. Today I have eaten/will eat at maintenance, @ 2500 calories. I have done that for days and days. I have two kids in the military who will both be home this weekend, been a long time since I have had them both home at the same time. Their other brothers who live out of town are coming home too. So I am gonna have the whole Family at home this weekend. We are gonna eat. Ill log, but I don't care. Ill go back to a very slight deficit next week till I get back. That's what eating whatever you want means to me. (tonight is grilled chicken, asparagus and baked sweet potato)9
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Ah, but did we feed them clean food or a moderate amount of pizza, loco rice, and chili cheese fries?
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Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
I have been trying, fruitlessly, to get my sister-in-law to stop with the ascetic diets where she cuts out all the foods she likes -- she's decided to "give up carbs" for Lent, for instance. Sure, she loses weight, but only to pack it all right back on when she's done. Why? Her diets do not allow her to develop sustainable habits. Once she goes back to eating her favorite foods, she also goes back to eating her old portion sizes. No surprise there.
Interesting. I gave up carbs 4 years ago. I have never found a more sustainable way of eating. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything by not putting crap into my body. My diet is healthy and varied and full of delicious good quality food. I honestly can't say there's anything I miss. I would argue that "going on a diet" but still eating all the foods that made you fat in the first place is not sustainable. In fact, I tried it for 20 years, and it didn't work.4 -
Feel as concerned as you like. The first and social thing I do for my clients is to help them lose weight. If I can at the VERY LEAST, get them to eat less than they burn with their current diet, they will lose weight.AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
To me this is extremely concerning coming from a 'so-called' Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer. You should be socially responsible and teach your client to aim to eat clean at least 70% of the time.
Trust that I've attempted the "clean" eating diet with many clients in my early days and guess what? They practically all regained due to the fact that is WASN'T SUSTAINABLE to them. So what should my social responsibility be? Just to instruct them to eat a certain way and insist that that's the only way, or give them an option that they can actually adhere to? I'll take the latter thank you. You won't hear my clients complaining especially since the majority have kept the weight off for many years.
Lol, yes it's obvious that I'm a trainer that's out of shape based on my pics.It seems like anyone can become a Certified Trainer these days and most of them are completely out of shape.
I don't know. Maybe from countries that actually do it that don't have obesity issues? Like Japan for instance? The issue here is that people think that when I say "whatever you want" it's an endorsement to just eat nothing BUT JUNKFOOD. Far from the truth. But primarily the most important step is just to get people to eat less than they are doing now. People AREN'T dumb here. They KNOW they can eat making better choices and I'm sure they will figure that out on their own. Thanks for opining though. I'm a legit trainer with many years of experience and don't need to make up crap to just get people to hire me. It's basically just information I learned from physiology classes.Where exactly did this notion of eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals come from? You are being lied to and thank you to the original poster for starting this discussion.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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BlueSkyShoal wrote: »That it's true that you can eat small amounts of high calorie foods and stay under your calories for the day, BUT that it's bad advice to give to someone just starting out, because if they get ravenously hungry they are more likely to fail.
But wait. WHO says eat small amounts of high cal foods only, regardless of effect on satiety?
What usually happens is someone says "what should I eat to lose weight?" or "can I eat whatever I want and lose weight?".
People respond with "you can eat whatever you like, but of course you will want to think about what foods will keep you from being hungry, and for health you will likely want to think about nutrition."
More specifically, for the first question I'd probably say something like: anything you want within your calories, but it helps to have a plan and understand what you find satisfying. Maybe log a few past days and look through it and see if there's an easy way to cut calories that would be pretty painless (my note: obviously this will often be less satisfying and lower nutrient foods) and you may be surprised by how many calories you got from basically unsatisfying or mindless eating. Also, some find it more helpful to focus on getting protein at all meals, and I like to get in vegetables at all meals. But really it's about what is satisfying for you and your goals.
The idea that this is "garbage advice" because telling people they need to figure out what will work for them based on their palate and situation and what satisfies them and what they will want to include in their diet is what I think is wrong. And of course they shouldn't eat only in a way that leaves them unsatisfied and hungry, but how to avoid that is something most have to learn for themselves. Many (like me) never actually end up hungry since we naturally seem to know how to eat in a way that is filling (despite having become fat, hmm). Others do seem to need experimentation or find that changing up macros makes a big difference. Certainly if someone said "I am hungry, what should I do" that person will get lots of good advice (and not "eat ONLY smaller portions of high cal things") but why assume someone will have difficulty with that before it happens? For me, if someone assumed I needed that advice, it would feel patronizing and like they thought I couldn't make good sense decisions about my own diet.And the more small-in-volume, high-calorie foods you eat, the less high-in-volume, low calorie foods you can eat in a given day (while staying true to your calorie goal.)
Usually it's a mix, though, and if you eat mostly nutrient-dense filling choices (like lots of vegetables and a good amount of protein), it can be quite easy to fit in some more indulgent things and good for feeling satisfied overall, although what these things are depends. For example, for some bread might be important, whereas for me on low cals bread and rice are usually not worth it (but I will fit in healthy meals involving pasta). Others think that cereal is important, whereas I hate cereal, but when I realized I could fit in cheese (high cal, obviously!) it helped make my meal plan much more sustainable. People have different ideas of what they need in delicious satisfying meals, but knowing you don't have to eat in a special "diet" way is important, IMO.3 -
Maybe from countries that actually do it that don't have obesity issues? Like Japan for instance?
You would think the fact that countries where the diet consists largely of white rice tend not to have obesity problems would be a clue for some people that something is amiss with the "carbs" narrative. Myths die hard, I guess.19 -
EbonyDahlia wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
I have been trying, fruitlessly, to get my sister-in-law to stop with the ascetic diets where she cuts out all the foods she likes -- she's decided to "give up carbs" for Lent, for instance. Sure, she loses weight, but only to pack it all right back on when she's done. Why? Her diets do not allow her to develop sustainable habits. Once she goes back to eating her favorite foods, she also goes back to eating her old portion sizes. No surprise there.
Interesting. I gave up carbs 4 years ago. I have never found a more sustainable way of eating. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything by not putting crap into my body. My diet is healthy and varied and full of delicious good quality food. I honestly can't say there's anything I miss. I would argue that "going on a diet" but still eating all the foods that made you fat in the first place is not sustainable. In fact, I tried it for 20 years, and it didn't work.
Specific foods didn't make me fat. I find that a weird way to look at it.12 -
One DOESN'T have to eat clean to sustain/maintain weight once the reach goal though. I mentioned it before, but look at countries (especially in Asia) that don't have obesity issues. They don't adhere to a "clean" eating regimen. There's alot of processed foods, high carb and sodium bombs going on.
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I scratch my head when you say eat what you want.....and then show what experience you have for 30 years in nutrition.
I'm not a know it all, don't claim anything. Just kinda seemed strange, with all the bad food's out there. All the preservatives and crap they put in food now days. Maybe it's a 2 step process, lose weight by eating your favorite foods at less calories then maybe changing over to clean later on after you lose the weight.
I don't adhere to the fitness/diet industry's mantra of "clean eating" and do just fine. It's not a NEEDED ingredient to successful get in good shape and stay that way.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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EbonyDahlia wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
I have been trying, fruitlessly, to get my sister-in-law to stop with the ascetic diets where she cuts out all the foods she likes -- she's decided to "give up carbs" for Lent, for instance. Sure, she loses weight, but only to pack it all right back on when she's done. Why? Her diets do not allow her to develop sustainable habits. Once she goes back to eating her favorite foods, she also goes back to eating her old portion sizes. No surprise there.
Interesting. I gave up carbs 4 years ago. I have never found a more sustainable way of eating. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything by not putting crap into my body. My diet is healthy and varied and full of delicious good quality food. I honestly can't say there's anything I miss. I would argue that "going on a diet" but still eating all the foods that made you fat in the first place is not sustainable. In fact, I tried it for 20 years, and it didn't work.
So carbs = crap?
How so?
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The real goal is lifestyle change. That is why learning to eat the things you like in reduced quantities is important. I will have much more success on any diet program if allowed to eat a pizza meal occasionally or a dessert. I faithfully count and track the calories and stay within my daily limit. I have never yet felt like I was starving and the satisfaction of being able to control your own cravings is much more important than having your cravings control you.10
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So no fruit (sugar), no pasta, breads, rice or ice cream? Interesting. I've done contest prep many times and cut those out to lean out, but I've never considered it crap nor had no desire to leave them out completely. To me, that would be like giving up on sex. I can abstain for awhile, but I'll never give it up.EbonyDahlia wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
I have been trying, fruitlessly, to get my sister-in-law to stop with the ascetic diets where she cuts out all the foods she likes -- she's decided to "give up carbs" for Lent, for instance. Sure, she loses weight, but only to pack it all right back on when she's done. Why? Her diets do not allow her to develop sustainable habits. Once she goes back to eating her favorite foods, she also goes back to eating her old portion sizes. No surprise there.
Interesting. I gave up carbs 4 years ago. I have never found a more sustainable way of eating. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything by not putting crap into my body. My diet is healthy and varied and full of delicious good quality food. I honestly can't say there's anything I miss. I would argue that "going on a diet" but still eating all the foods that made you fat in the first place is not sustainable. In fact, I tried it for 20 years, and it didn't work.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Take the classic sweet and sour sauce. It's a sugar and salt bomb.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_and_sour0 -
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I scratch my head when you say eat what you want.....and then show what experience you have for 30 years in nutrition.
I'm not a know it all, don't claim anything. Just kinda seemed strange, with all the bad food's out there. All the preservatives and crap they put in food now days. Maybe it's a 2 step process, lose weight by eating your favorite foods at less calories then maybe changing over to clean later on after you lose the weight.
It's actually seems to be standard advice. I've talked to a few trainers who have studied nutrition and they all seem to be on similar pages. Usually offering information on lean meats, healthy fats, carbs are not the devil, and yes you can still enjoy things like pizza (just try to limit it to once a week or so). You still get to eat whatever you want, but you have to be more careful about it and learn to moderate your intake. That's atleast what I understand from the talks I have had.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »That it's true that you can eat small amounts of high calorie foods and stay under your calories for the day, BUT that it's bad advice to give to someone just starting out, because if they get ravenously hungry they are more likely to fail.
But wait. WHO says eat small amounts of high cal foods only, regardless of effect on satiety?
I didn't say anything about eating ONLY high cal foods. Merely that the more you eat in high-cal / low volume foods, the less calories you have left to eat low cal / high volume food (or high protein food), which may fill someone up more. (One maple bar at my favorite donut shop is almost 600 calories. Yeeeah, guess what I don't eat anymore. It's not worth it blowing half a day's calories on a donut.) And some people need as much help as they can get to feel full when they first start. Especially if they are trying for 1200 calories a day.
I'm not even saying I 100% agree with the original post, but I don't really find it mind-boggling to understand what they were trying to say.4 -
I'm fairly new here, and I have seen that kind of advice (on different threads) a few times. Someone just starting to try to lose weight asks something like "Should I be eating more fiber?" or "I think I'm eating too much fast food," and a veteran responds with the "anything you want, just maintain a deficit" line. The veteran probably didn't mean that nutrition and food choices play no role in weight loss success. But to the newbie, who doesn't know what it means to strike a balance and keep things in perspective, it can sound like it.cwolfman13 wrote: »You're missing context here. Nobody is saying just eat junk food and stick to your calories. It's about striking a balance.
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My own honest opinion is that your ENTIRE diet (even if it's calorie deficit) shouldn't revolve around junk food because it simply isn't good for you, however, I TOTALLY had some chocolate frosting yesterday because darn it, I WANTED TO! It fit into my calories, though it put me over my sugar goal, and I was completely satisfied for the rest of the night. No cookies, no chips, no nothing. It was really the only 'sweet' food I had the entire day.
I feel (and this is my personal opinion) that I can eat 'more' for fewer calories when I have a salad in comparison to eating something processed, sugar and carb-laden. I feel better about myself when I eat good food. But you know what? I LOVE CHIPS, and I LOVE EATING FOOD IN GENERAL THAT ISN'T GOOD FOR ME. Most humans do, that's why there is such a high demand and an obesity problem. The only thing I worry about it portion control. If I have 250 grams of Greek yogurt and frozen blueberries, that's fine. If I have 2000 g of pasta (which is a lot, what the heck), that's not okay. I totally had 125 g of lasagna last night because that's what my family was eating. It was delicious, and I finished it with two eggs (protein!). I was full for the rest of the night, and there was no late-night snacking on chippies. (Of course, I did drink a diet coke or two, but that was because I had two exams and I wanted something to sip on!)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
I have been trying, fruitlessly, to get my sister-in-law to stop with the ascetic diets where she cuts out all the foods she likes -- she's decided to "give up carbs" for Lent, for instance. Sure, she loses weight, but only to pack it all right back on when she's done. Why? Her diets do not allow her to develop sustainable habits. Once she goes back to eating her favorite foods, she also goes back to eating her old portion sizes. No surprise there.
Interesting. I gave up carbs 4 years ago. I have never found a more sustainable way of eating. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything by not putting crap into my body. My diet is healthy and varied and full of delicious good quality food. I honestly can't say there's anything I miss. I would argue that "going on a diet" but still eating all the foods that made you fat in the first place is not sustainable. In fact, I tried it for 20 years, and it didn't work.
Specific foods didn't make me fat. I find that a weird way to look at it.
So very much this. That was a mentality I needed to let go in order to lose weight successfully, in fact.
There was a point in time I could have written the other poster's post.
I've said this before. I low-carbed for 10 years. Many people would have felt they were on a sustainable path in my place. I know I did.
I never reached any kind of weight goal doing that. I never left the category of being overweight. I also never addressed the deeper issues I had with food like emotional eating and bored eating because I believed that carbs were the problem, not those other things.
I don't have an issue with low-carbing. I do have an issue with the idea that type of food is the only reason why people have a problem with their weight, though. Diet book authors and diet gurus all too often fail to address something as unsexy sounding as "my kid was teething and up all night and now all I want is to dive headfirst into a pint of Talenti" eating problems.10 -
WinoGelato wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
I have been trying, fruitlessly, to get my sister-in-law to stop with the ascetic diets where she cuts out all the foods she likes -- she's decided to "give up carbs" for Lent, for instance. Sure, she loses weight, but only to pack it all right back on when she's done. Why? Her diets do not allow her to develop sustainable habits. Once she goes back to eating her favorite foods, she also goes back to eating her old portion sizes. No surprise there.
Interesting. I gave up carbs 4 years ago. I have never found a more sustainable way of eating. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything by not putting crap into my body. My diet is healthy and varied and full of delicious good quality food. I honestly can't say there's anything I miss. I would argue that "going on a diet" but still eating all the foods that made you fat in the first place is not sustainable. In fact, I tried it for 20 years, and it didn't work.
So carbs = crap?
How so?
I find it interesting that if everyone isn't adhering to someone's very specific way of eating ( on the previous page alone, 2 examples - low carb and 'clean' eating) then they are - as these evangelists have clearly stated - eating crap.
How very curious.16 -
BlueSkyShoal wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »That it's true that you can eat small amounts of high calorie foods and stay under your calories for the day, BUT that it's bad advice to give to someone just starting out, because if they get ravenously hungry they are more likely to fail.
But wait. WHO says eat small amounts of high cal foods only, regardless of effect on satiety?
I didn't say anything about eating ONLY high cal foods. Merely that the more you eat in high-cal / low volume foods, the less calories you have left to eat low cal / high volume food (or high protein food), which may fill someone up more. And some people need as much help as they can get to feel full when they first start. Especially if they are trying for 1200 calories a day.
I don't even think that's really true, but I think about it the other way around: fill up the day with filling meals, which can vary in how many calories they are, and then if you have room add in something treat-like (or if you want and plan, sprinkle it in throughout the day, like with me realizing I could add some cheese to my vegetable omelet). I don't agree that adding in some high cal things in moderation makes the day as a whole not satiating or leaves you hungry.
Sure, you shouldn't go overboard, but if you do lots of things are REALLY low cal and if you are hungry and want to snack on some raw veg, you aren't going to go way over. (When I first started I was hungry because I was used to eating throughout the day and wasn't -- I knew this was mental, not real, but I ate raw veg for a bit and it went away.)
Again, if someone finds it hard to figure out how to eat to stay full -- for most people I don't think this is hard, but some do need help and some find they need different things (people who benefit from low carbing, for example) -- that's a separate question. I don't think we can assume someone won't be able to use common sense.
When I first started I went way overboard (my history from when I'd cut calories and not logged) and logging allowed me to realize I was too low and so I added back in more indulgent things (in moderation). I think without doing that I would have been bored and probably eventually reacted to the too low calories, so it would have been less sustainable.
I also think for all the talk about high cal foods, everyone eats some high cal foods without being hungry. It's a matter of balance. Sometimes I do a lot of lean meat and veg only so end up with extra calories and have dessert (even something splurgy, not always sweet). Sometimes I go out to eat (even if I have no so called junk food as part of that meal) and it's high cal like most restaurant food so I am focused on eating for fewer cals (again, protein and veg) the rest of the day. Sometimes I scatter in indulgences like cheese or pulled pork (high cal compared to my normal protein choice) or a whole avocado instead of half or pancakes for breakfast (with some protein and veg, of course) and that makes up my calories. It varies. Point is someone at the beginning telling me I couldn't do this or that certain foods were off the table would be wrong.
For me, the goal when dieting is not to eat food that feels like you are choosing it because dieting. It should be delicious -- I care more about using calories effectively when I have fewer. And yeah, of course there are lots of things I choose not to have (not today, anyway) since they are more calories than they are worth. I bought a salad today that came with a pita and I didn't eat it, not because pitas are bad for diets, but because for me personally the calories weren't worth it. I could have eaten it and not been hungry, as I know how to do a low cal satisfying dinner, but I knew what I'd give up at dinner is tastier and more enjoyable for me specifically than the pita was (I'm not a big bread person). That's me "eating what I want within my calories."3 -
I hadn't seen anyone refer to this, so I thought I'd share it. Here's a young woman who has successfully maintained a normal weight by not eating more calories than she used up.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2092071/Stacey-Irvine-17-collapses-eating-McDonalds-chicken-nuggets-age-2.html
My only points are, first, that there really are people who eat like this (and probably a lot more with similar but less severe problems). For all we know, the person we're replying to could be one of those people. So it's not right to say no one takes things to an extreme, because clearly some do. As far as we know, someone who's reading the advice we post could be that person. Second, "doesn't matter what you eat as long as you maintain a calorie deficit" is only true if weight loss is the only issue. If there are other issues, like nutrition and overall health, it's at best incomplete advice.
Third, some people can maintain a calorie deficit while eating a lot of junk food, through willpower. But for a lot of overweight people, that's not enough. If it were, they'd have already lost weight. They need to change what they eat - not just how much - and to some extent they need to change their lifestyle too, to make it sustainable. So "eat whatever you want" isn't really helpful advice for those people.2 -
I hadn't seen anyone refer to this, so I thought I'd share it. Here's a young woman who has successfully maintained a normal weight by not eating more calories than she used up.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2092071/Stacey-Irvine-17-collapses-eating-McDonalds-chicken-nuggets-age-2.html
My only points are, first, that there really are people who eat like this (and probably a lot more with similar but less severe problems). For all we know, the person we're replying to could be one of those people. So it's not right to say no one takes things to an extreme, because clearly some do. As far as we know, someone who's reading the advice we post could be that person. Second, "doesn't matter what you eat as long as you maintain a calorie deficit" is only true if weight loss is the only issue. If there are other issues, like nutrition and overall health, it's at best incomplete advice.
Third, some people can maintain a calorie deficit while eating a lot of junk food, through willpower. But for a lot of overweight people, that's not enough. If it were, they'd have already lost weight. They need to change what they eat - not just how much - and to some extent they need to change their lifestyle too, to make it sustainable. So "eat whatever you want" isn't really helpful advice for those people.
Have you actually read the thread?5 -
Yes, the whole thing. I wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about. I might have missed a post, but if I did it was an oversight.WinoGelato wrote: »Have you actually read the thread?
1 -
Yeah....I have lost 36 pounds so far and tonight for dinner I ate a hamburger, potato chips and chocolate pudding with reddi wip on it. I am quite satisfied.6
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